Miller on Hammer & Rails - Character Assassination

[FirstDownB]

You've alluded to things like this in other posts(criticism) and have been(in my opinion) completely wrong in that assessment each time. Painter did NOT "criticize" either guy, in fact commenting that he liked them multiple times. What Painter said was exactly what someone who cares very much about his kids and their decisions (and futures) in and out of athletics does say. He did, in fact mention also in the interview that he'd said these things to Eastern and Haarms. Specifically regarding the "probably got better" comment, it was part of the discussion which also included "if you don't want to be here, don't want to embrace competition" back and forth with he and Dakich and part of the interview mentioning kids making a change in scenery but not necessarily their own work and production. That's NOT criticizing someone, it's reality, for not just athletes but also for pretty much everyone in any endeavor. To claim this as publicly humiliating anyone is just crazy, and an extreme mis-reading of the interview and situation.

Criticism might be the wrong word. Maybe unnecessary airing of dirty laundry is a better way to describe how it came across to me. A lot of things, whether it is player-coach, husband-wife, parent-child, bff-bff, are just better off kept confidential. It’s annoying for fans but there is a reason for it. Maybe this was the right time to break from that and not bite the tongue, maybe there was necessary narrative control.. Not sure. This didn’t really blow up publicly until Painter’s interview. I do believe if former players were out giving interviews and talking about Painter’s shortcomings it would not be well received by a lot of people. But I’ve softened from my original reactions, and as I stated above I just thought “you can say anything publicly that you would say in private” wasn’t the best argument. I’m officially Switzerland now on this topic.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

You all are starting to win me over, and I’m glad this didn’t get any real national media attention (by guys who are not as “pro coach” as Dakich and Fraschilla), but this is the worst argument, and I keep running into it on this board and elsewhere. I have no doubt Painter would say all these things and much worse to their faces. However, people expect a lot of things, i.e. criticism to remain behind closed doors and do not expect to be publicly humiliated by their coach. The other arguments.. that this will rally his team, that this will change a narrative that may have been out there about why these guys left.. those are much better reasons.

I was taking issue with the “ripping a guy on the way out the door” narrative. To me that suggests that he DIDN’T say these things to them before they left.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Criticism might be the wrong word. Maybe unnecessary airing of dirty laundry is a better way to describe how it came across to me. A lot of things, whether it is player-coach, husband-wife, parent-child, bff-bff, are just better off kept confidential. It’s annoying for fans but there is a reason for it. Maybe this was the right time to break from that and not bite the tongue, maybe there was necessary narrative control.. Not sure. This didn’t really blow up publicly until Painter’s interview. I do believe if former players were out giving interviews and talking about Painter’s shortcomings it would not be well received by a lot of people. But I’ve softened from my original reactions, and as I stated above I just thought “you can say anything publicly that you would say in private” wasn’t the best argument. I’m officially Switzerland now on this topic.

I would guess the one line he might want back is the “you average 4 points and you put your name in the draft twice?”

 

[mille736]

Everything else aside, if you can't understand the fact that Purdue did indeed get better with the departures, then, you are the one that doesn't "get it".

"Ripping a guy" as he goes out the door is not what happened...sharing the truth about a guy (or guys) as they slid out the side door hiding all the while as they did it is more accurate, and, he was kind in holding back from what he did not say about either.

Know what else is not a good look? Guys that are supposed to be leaders who have the keys to the program failing in all regards, because they did not do what they were supposed to do, failing to accept any responsibility and then quitting on top of it...I have no problem at all pointing out that neither is a Boilermaker in light of that, and, you should not either...nobody should.

You are entitled to your opinion certainly, whether it is garbage or not, but, you have a responsibility that goes along with your "privilege", and, you shirked it here...not surprising though given that you are so keen on supporting a couple of guys guilty of the same.

I do not get what is so disrespectful about saying neither one is a Boilermaker either.. one is a cougar and the other a wolverine..

 

[lbodel]

Credentials doesn’t equal accessibility. One may give you the illusion of having access while the other gives you much more than simply being able to enter an area.

To be frank, the media coverage for Purdue overall is rather surface level. GBI won't report anything unflattering given their relationship with JPC, and there's no other source with any inside scoop.

Purdue's been lucky over the years to not have anyone really reporting. Washburn was the closest to that, but he often just held onto information and mentioned it when it was no longer 'in the heat' of the story. If the Painter/Mizzou situation happened at half of the other Big Ten schools, the issues leading to it would have been widely reported before it actually happened because it was no secret.

 

[SDBoiler1]

again more character assassination from the usual subject. I noticed you had nothing else to say in this thread other than to cut me down. What does that say about yourself and your own posts ? basically, you're a band wagon bully. you see somebody else cut me down, and you just jump on the bandwagon.

When was the last time you posted an original thought?

Everyday. It's just that I do it on the pay board. Most people can express what you do in about 1/4 of the words and when they're done you can get a sense of their main point.

 

[indyogb]

To be frank, the media coverage for Purdue overall is rather surface level. GBI won't report anything unflattering given their relationship with JPC, and there's no other source with any inside scoop.

Purdue's been lucky over the years to not have anyone really reporting. Washburn was the closest to that, but he often just held onto information and mentioned it when it was no longer 'in the heat' of the story. If the Painter/Mizzou situation happened at half of the other Big Ten schools, the issues leading to it would have been widely reported before it actually happened because it was no secret.

Well, I guess it's nice we get the 'good' with the 'bad' - we're largely persona non grata in our home state media.

 

[jtanoos1]

Bob Kravitz just released a column from the Athletic and the title was "Purdue Coach Matt Painter speaking out about transfers was bush-league".

I really enjoy Kravitz but I think he's not on target here.

 

[Level 42]

Bob Kravitz just released a column from the Athletic and the title was "Purdue Coach Matt Painter speaking out about transfers was bush-league".

I really enjoy Kravitz but I think he's not on target here.

Kramshits clearly didn't listen to the interview at all.

 

[HarrysPostGame13]

Bob Kravitz just released a column from the Athletic and the title was "Purdue Coach Matt Painter speaking out about transfers was bush-league".

I really enjoy Kravitz but I think he's not on target here.

Kravitz attempts to make Purdue look bad a lot. Ignored that clown years ago.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Kramshits clearly didn't listen to the interview at all.

I wonder if our football coach, PJ Fleck, would speak about transfers from the football team like that?

 

[Wolegib]

Everyday. It's just that I do it on the pay board. Most people can express what you do in about 1/4 of the words and when they're done you can get a sense of their main point.

so I'm a tad wordy, so what !!! You came here from KHC just to post and dis me? how nice. I'm glad my posts interest you enough to take time out of your busy day. I got paid to write government military regulations. I don't attack other posters, I jus t defend myself from their attacks. In other words , I strike back. My mother once told me, if you have nothing good to say about somebody, keep your lips shut!

harry potter could be summed up in two words: Valdemort's dead. is that what you prefer to read? two word replies? sorry to disappoint.

 

[Wolegib]

as for Painter this is almost the first time he has actually made candid remarks and criticism about a player after they decided to leave. usually he just says his basic coach speak and wishes them well. he said nothing about Ewing when he left other than wishing him well. he wished Taylor well. he said a little more about Smotherman not providing the anticipated leadership he expected. all he said about the johnsons was that he wished them well. he accepted and understood Biggie's decision to leave. he encouraged Carsen to go pro. he wished Stephens well. In almost every single case when a player transferred, painter never criticized the player or aired any dirty laundry publically. He may have hated the johnsons and Smotherman and all the rest that left, but he never said anything negative about any of those players publically. and he never said the team would be better by their absence.

I still don't believe Painter was totally blindsided by either departure. I do believe a lot of words were said after the year about painter's expectations and forecasts for nest year. and neither player wanted to meet those expectations, and neither player relished their anticipated role for next year.

College basketball is no longer about what can I do for the team. it's become what team can best showcase my talents. and the sad part is, many of these players will never sniff the NBA, and many that do have the same exact attitude as pros. that's why you have very few actual coaches in the pros: the players run the show.

 

[GoldandBlackintheSaddleAgain]

as for Painter this is almost the first time he has actually made candid remarks and criticism about a player after they decided to leave. usually he just says his basic coach speak and wishes them well. he said nothing about Ewing when he left other than wishing him well. he wished Taylor well. he said a little more about Smotherman not providing the anticipated leadership he expected. all he said about the johnsons was that he wished them well. he accepted and understood Biggie's decision to leave. he encouraged Carsen to go pro. he wished Stephens well. In almost every single case when a player transferred, painter never criticized the player or aired any dirty laundry publically. He may have hated the johnsons and Smotherman and all the rest that left, but he never said anything negative about any of those players publically. and he never said the team would be better by their absence.

I still don't believe Painter was totally blindsided by either departure. I do believe a lot of words were said after the year about painter's expectations and forecasts for nest year. and neither player wanted to meet those expectations, and neither player relished their anticipated role for next year.

College basketball is no longer about what can I do for the team. it's become what team can best showcase my talents. and the sad part is, many of these players will never sniff the NBA, and many that do have the same exact attitude as pros. that's why you have very few actual coaches in the pros: the players run the show.

Really wasn't much for coach to say in Ewing's case. He'd only been on the team for a short while, was caught shoplifting and dismissed.

 

[mathboy]

as for Painter this is almost the first time he has actually made candid remarks and criticism about a player after they decided to leave. usually he just says his basic coach speak and wishes them well. he said nothing about Ewing when he left other than wishing him well. he wished Taylor well. he said a little more about Smotherman not providing the anticipated leadership he expected. all he said about the johnsons was that he wished them well. he accepted and understood Biggie's decision to leave. he encouraged Carsen to go pro. he wished Stephens well. In almost every single case when a player transferred, painter never criticized the player or aired any dirty laundry publically. He may have hated the johnsons and Smotherman and all the rest that left, but he never said anything negative about any of those players publically. and he never said the team would be better by their absence.

I still don't believe Painter was totally blindsided by either departure. I do believe a lot of words were said after the year about painter's expectations and forecasts for nest year. and neither player wanted to meet those expectations, and neither player relished their anticipated role for next year.

College basketball is no longer about what can I do for the team. it's become what team can best showcase my talents. and the sad part is, many of these players will never sniff the NBA, and many that do have the same exact attitude as pros. that's why you have very few actual coaches in the pros: the players run the show.

Interesting. The coach, known to be one of the most honest and forthright in the business, says he was surprised by these departures, but you don’t believe him. Okay.

Matt Painter calls them as he sees them. Most of his critical statements were not directed at a specific player. You have to listen carefully for when he talks about the two kids, and when he talks about the team in general. When he spoke about working hard he told his whole team that, or he made remarks about kids in general, thinking they are NBA material when they haven’t made all-conference. At that time, he wasn’t directing his comments toward the two kids that left. Just my perspective.

 

[C'ville Boiler]

so I'm a tad wordy, so what !!! You came here from KHC just to post and dis me? how nice. I'm glad my posts interest you enough to take time out of your busy day. I got paid to write government military regulations. I don't attack other posters, I jus t defend myself from their attacks. In other words , I strike back. My mother once told me, if you have nothing good to say about somebody, keep your lips shut!

harry potter could be summed up in two words: Valdemort's dead. is that what you prefer to read? two word replies? sorry to disappoint.

Spoiler alert

 

[Dryfly88]

I would guess the one line he might want back is the “you average 4 points and you put your name in the draft twice?”

That was my favorite! But you might be right, he might regret going there. It's just hard when the kid and his Mom are so delusional. He has 0 chance to make an NBA roster. CMP knows it, you know and I know it. I get his frustration.

 

[SDBoiler1]

so I'm a tad wordy, so what !!! You came here from KHC just to post and dis me? how nice. I'm glad my posts interest you enough to take time out of your busy day. I got paid to write government military regulations. I don't attack other posters, I jus t defend myself from their attacks. In other words , I strike back. My mother once told me, if you have nothing good to say about somebody, keep your lips shut!

harry potter could be summed up in two words: Valdemort's dead. is that what you prefer to read? two word replies? sorry to disappoint.

Sorry, you don’t come close to J.K. Rowling.

 

[Purdue85]

Interesting. The coach, known to be one of the most honest and forthright in the business, says he was surprised by these departures, but you don’t believe him. Okay.

Matt Painter calls them as he sees them. Most of his critical statements were not directed at a specific player. You have to listen carefully for when he talks about the two kids, and when he talks about the team in general. When he spoke about working hard he told his whole team that, or he made remarks about kids in general, thinking they are NBA material when they haven’t made all-conference. At that time, he wasn’t directing his comments toward the two kids that left. Just my perspective.

Unfortunately, that's been a recurring message from a select few here, and not just from Bigs.

 

[hunkgolden]

I’ve never visited the H&R site. Has that site ever been the first to break a Purdue story? Do they beat GBI to the punch on recruiting news? Any scoop not found on GBI? What’s their differentiator? What info can be found there that’s not found on GBI?

 

[Purdue85]

I’ve never visited the H&R site. Has that site ever been the first to break a Purdue story? Do they beat GBI to the punch on recruiting news? Any scoop not found on GBI? What’s their differentiator? What info can be found there that’s not found on GBI?

Insulting and offensive comments directed toward their audience... that would be the differentiation.

That's quite a unique market niche to carve out.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

I’ve never visited the H&R site. Has that site ever been the first to break a Purdue story? Do they beat GBI to the punch on recruiting news? Any scoop not found on GBI? What’s their differentiator? What info can be found there that’s not found on GBI?

Imagine 3-4 posters of average intelligence from this board go and post on a different website, and call it a “blog”. That’s H&R, in a nutshell.

 

[VulvHa]

Imagine 3-4 posters of average intelligence from this board go and post on a different website, and call it a “blog”. That’s H&R, in a nutshell.

“Average” is being very generous. H&R is shtstain that needs to be wiped from the net.

 

[pu1985]

Bob Kravitz just released a column from the Athletic and the title was "Purdue Coach Matt Painter speaking out about transfers was bush-league".

I really enjoy Kravitz but I think he's not on target here.

Krapitz still has a job somewhere?
Wouldn’t have figured that...

 

[delish1]

I don’t know ... I read the article just this morning and most of it are Painter quotes from the interview with Dakich. At the end of the day, he had to say something as saying nothing leads to its own perception and reality. I personally didn’t like all Painter said but I understand why he said it .. everything today is about spin. At this stage, I only care about how this may effect recruiting. I’m ready to move on and see how this all plays out for Matt, for Nojel and most of all for our Boilers

I agree with this. It's all perspective. I didnt have an issue with the original interview as he said he told the former players the same things. The not a boilermaker seems a little harsh especially out of the audio but that's really the only comment near "the line."

I also didn't think the hammer and rails post was out of line. I expected a lot more fire based on this thread than I read. I think anyone really bothered by that is reading with their own bias clouding their perception.

 

[TeddyValentineDidNothingWrong]

Hammer and Rails writing sucks. In other news, water is wet.

I wish the folks at Boiled Sports could have been Purdue's SB Nation representatives but oh well.

 

[Purdue85]

Hammer and Rails writing sucks. In other news, water is wet.

I wish the folks at Boiled Sports could have been Purdue's SB Nation representatives but oh well.

I haven't read enough of their stuff, so I'm not completely sure, but Boiled Sports may not have fit in with the, uh ... "culture" ... at Vox.

 

[Dakota Girl]

New Pal Boiler said:

↑



Seriously. Like, could a certain poster start a Purdue blog site called “Wole’s Fables” and get a press pass?

You know... I'd read that blog.
[/quote]
But could you actually finish reading an entire article? The volume of verbiage would be astonishing.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Bob Kravitz just released a column from the Athletic and the title was "Purdue Coach Matt Painter speaking out about transfers was bush-league".

I really enjoy Kravitz but I think he's not on target here.

Bob Kravitz being gainfully employed as a writer could be classified as the eighth wonder of the world.

 

[tjreese]

Interesting. The coach, known to be one of the most honest and forthright in the business, says he was surprised by these departures, but you don’t believe him. Okay.

Matt Painter calls them as he sees them. Most of his critical statements were not directed at a specific player. You have to listen carefully for when he talks about the two kids, and when he talks about the team in general. When he spoke about working hard he told his whole team that, or he made remarks about kids in general, thinking they are NBA material when they haven’t made all-conference. At that time, he wasn’t directing his comments toward the two kids that left. Just my perspective.

I think the operative word was totally...totally surprised. I'm sure Matt knew those two were not happy campers. He was surprised I believe, but not a total surprise. He probably has seen enough that few things totally surprise him. I wonder if Matt thought Carsen would declare a few games before the tourney? It doesnt matter I didnt think Matt was too harsh in stating publicly what virtues he preached daily. I dont think the rest of the team thought Matt was anything but himself