Michigan takes Creaning One Step Farther

[ghostoffatjack]

Adios Spike since we have oversigned but you can stay without a scholie since you graduate in May BUT you cannot play for any other B1G school! Funny thing is, who was the FB program's starting QB this past year and where did he come from? Hypocrites!

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

Adios Spike since we have oversigned but you can stay without a scholie since you graduate in May BUT you cannot play for any other B1G school! Funny thing is, who was the FB program's starting QB this past year and where did he come from? Hypocrites!

Posted this in another thread, but looks like UM has "seen the error of its ways....."

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/c.../michigan-basketball-transfer-rules/82508986/

 

[FirstDownB]

When the news about Spike broke on Monday, the story was that he wanted to return but Beilein had no scholarship to give him. Then on Tuesday the Ricky Doyle news comes out. It was made to sound like the transfer was his decision, but simple research reveals they were still at -1 scholly deficit and someone had to go.

Long story short, I don't see how a coach or program can have ANY say in where a player transfers when it is a true "Creaning" situation (i.e., not enough scholarships available). Now maybe there is no distinction in policy between the transfer from a team in a scholly deficit vs. transfer from a team in a scholly surplus, but to me the two situations could not be more different, and therefore, should have different sets of rules.

Perhaps if this were to be the case then it would have unintended consequences such a resulting "race" between potential transfers to get out before the scholly deficit is resolved in order to have more freedom/privilege. And there would be other complicating factors such as the draft status of teammates in determining whether a program is truly above or below 13 schollies for the upcoming season. But I think in the case of any uncertainty, unless it is black and white (i.e. KS and GW transferring when we only have AT MOST 10 schollies committed) the benefit of the doubt should be given to the player in terms of transfer options.

 

[ghostoffatjack]

Michigan bowed to media pressure about an hour ago and released all of their restrictions on him! Would have been used against them in future recruiting no doubt by opposing coaches!

http://collegebasketball.nbcsports....ts-transfer-restrictions-removed-by-michigan/

 

[FirstDownB]

So (not that it's going to happen) what would the response be if Painter were to place a transfer restriction on KS? I'm assuming the general public would not distinguish the fact that he has a scholarship waiting for him at Purdue. Would newspaper columnists and talking heads in the sports world?

 

[Dryfly88]

So (not that it's going to happen) what would the response be if Painter were to place a transfer restriction on KS? I'm assuming the general public would not distinguish the fact that he has a scholarship waiting for him at Purdue. Would newspaper columnists and talking heads in the sports world?

I think they would recognize the difference and PU wouldn't take the same heat that UM did. It is a big difference between still having a scholly available and telling a kid you don't have one.

 

[PaBoiler78]

I think they would recognize the difference and PU wouldn't take the same heat that UM did. It is a big difference between still having a scholly available and telling a kid you don't have one.

let's trade KS for Spike.

 

[wawasee]

This has been going on for years. Pushing a player out that isn't performing to you expectations. Mr Nice Guy Digger was famous for running players off. It looks like Matta is cleaning house also..

 

[FirstDownB]

This Michigan/Albrecht story just keeps getting better.. Now, with the additional transfer of Aubrey Dawkins, the door may be open for a return to UM for Spike (Hey, no hard feelings, pal!). Beilein obviously misplayed this, displaying his substandard creaning skills. The lesson here is do not crean until all of your other potential transfers are settled. When in doubt just wait until fall to resolve the scholarship situation.

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/c...ichigan-wolverines-open-scholarship/83003436/

 

[mathboy]

This Michigan/Albrecht story just keeps getting better.. Now, with the additional transfer of Aubrey Dawkins, the door may be open for a return to UM for Spike (Hey, no hard feelings, pal!). Beilein obviously misplayed this, displaying his substandard creaning skills. The lesson here is do not crean until all of your other potential transfers are settled. When in doubt just wait until fall to resolve the scholarship situation.

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/c...ichigan-wolverines-open-scholarship/83003436/

Beilienein needs to take lessons from the master. Never ever Crean until the last minute. Make sure the kid is completely surprised, but knows to keep his mouth shut. Do it quickly, like ripping a banddaid off. The kid will never know what happened to him and his dreams of playing at your school. No long drama in the media.

 

[zeke4ahs]

Beilienein needs to take lessons from the master. Never ever Crean until the last minute. Make sure the kid is completely surprised, but knows to keep his mouth shut. Do it quickly, like ripping a banddaid off. The kid will never know what happened to him and his dreams of playing at your school. No long drama in the media.

And who has that happened to again with Crean?

 

[purdue4sure]

And who has that happened to again with Crean?

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[mathboy]

And who has that happened to again with Crean?

You know that's not funny. There are people out there with both short term and long term memory loss. Please don't make fun of them.

 

[BigRed3588]

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Davis isn't really an example of Creaning. Got in legal trouble twice, so that one was justified. Roth and Patterson on the other hand...

 

[purdue4sure]

Davis isn't really an example of Creaning. Got in legal trouble twice, so that one was justified. Roth and Patterson on the other hand...

I agree. It was meant more as a joke. Just wasn't a good one.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Beilienein needs to take lessons from the master. Never ever Crean until the last minute. Make sure the kid is completely surprised, but knows to keep his mouth shut. Do it quickly, like ripping a banddaid off. The kid will never know what happened to him and his dreams of playing at your school. No long drama in the media.

Yes but which Classic Creaning method is best?

There is the "Lumbergh" method, where you don't say anything to them, just simply stop the scholarship checks and hope the problem takes care of itself. This method is also known as "The Roth".

Another option is to ambush a marginal recruit with a summer school class, which has been known as "the Patterson" in some circles.

 

[Heller]

Davis isn't really an example of Creaning. Got in legal trouble twice, so that one was justified. Roth and Patterson on the other hand...

IU fans should realize that "Creaning" doesn't happen until there are more players than scholarships. You forgot Cocacabana btw.

 

[burbo]

And who has that happened to again with Crean?

It must be really, really difficult to be right all of the time and correct so many cretins on here and peegs.

 

[blockm2]

I think they would recognize the difference and PU wouldn't take the same heat that UM did. It is a big difference between still having a scholly available and telling a kid you don't have one.

Well Michigan had already had a signed LOI by a PG to replace graduating Spike Albrecht before it was determined he wasn't healing fast enough to contribute more, had to sit out the year, and could take a redshirt.

So in that situation, is it more ethical to boot the HS recruit you promised a scholarship when you knew Albrecht was graduating or is it more ethical to let Albrecht move on when he got an unexpected redshirt year during his senior season?

 

[TwinDegrees2]

IU fans should realize that "Creaning" doesn't happen until there are more players than scholarships. You forgot Cocacabana btw.

Heller, wouldn't that be known as the Cuban Creaning?

 

[Dryfly88]

Well Michigan had already had a signed LOI by a PG to replace graduating Spike Albrecht before it was determined he wasn't healing fast enough to contribute more, had to sit out the year, and could take a redshirt.

So in that situation, is it more ethical to boot the HS recruit you promised a scholarship when you knew Albrecht was graduating or is it more ethical to let Albrecht move on when he got an unexpected redshirt year during his senior season?

You need to re-read what I was responding to. I was saying that PU wouldn't take the same heat as UM because CMP had a scholarship available for KS to come back to. Where UM didn't. Big difference between telling a kid he can't go anywhere he wants but you do still have a place for him, versus telling him he can't go anywhere he wants AND there is no place for him. It doesn't matter why there is no place for him.

Obviously UM saw the error in their ways and quickly backtracked allowing Spike to go anywhere he wants. It was the right thing to do.

 

[mathboy]

You need to re-read what I was responding to. I was saying that PU wouldn't take the same heat as UM because CMP had a scholarship available for KS to come back to. Where UM didn't. Big difference between telling a kid he can't go anywhere he wants but you do still have a place for him, versus telling him he can't go anywhere he wants AND there is no place for him. It doesn't matter why there is no place for him.

Obviously UM saw the error in their ways and quickly backtracked allowing Spike to go anywhere he wants. It was the right thing to do.

Dryfly hit the issue right on the nose. How the hell can UM tell a kid that they don't have a scholarship for him, but then attempt to restrict where he can play after that? This is not the 18th century world of indentured servants. These actions show an arrogence that has come to be a defining characturistic of UM sports. It needs to change. Glad UM retracted their original postion, however, they never should have taken it in the first place.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

Dryfly hit the issue right on the nose. How the hell can UM tell a kid that they don't have a scholarship for him, but then attempt to restrict where he can play after that? This is not the 18th century world of indentured servants. These actions show an arrogence that has come to be a defining characturistic of UM sports. It needs to change. Glad UM retracted their original postion, however, they never should have taken it in the first place.

Math, I know you like IU a bit, and have to ask if Biggie or Haas wanted to transfer to IU what would you say about that?

 

[mathboy]

Math, I know you like IU a bit, and have to ask if Biggie or Haas wanted to transfer to IU what would you say about that?

IF WE DIDN'T HAVE A SCHOLARSHIP... then I don't think we have a say in where he goes. If we have a scholarship open for the kid and he chooses not to play at Purdue another year, then I think there can be some constrains put on his transfer.

For the record, neither of those guys would want to play at IU. The style of play would not suit them very well.

 

[Dryfly88]

Math, I know you like IU a bit, and have to ask if Biggie or Haas wanted to transfer to IU what would you say about that?

I know I'm not Math....

This is complete apples/oranges. The two guys you list are both underclassmen that have scholarships open to them at PU. Spike was told there wasn't a scholarship for him and he couldn't go where he wanted. Two completely different situations.

Now, if for some reason CMP said to those two guys "I don't have a scholarship for you next year", I would be perfectly fine with them going to IU or anywhere they wanted.

 

[FirstDownB]

I know I'm not Math....

This is complete apples/oranges. The two guys you list are both underclassmen that have scholarships open to them at PU. Spike was told there wasn't a scholarship for him and he couldn't go where he wanted. Two completely different situations.

Now, if for some reason CMP said to those two guys "I don't have a scholarship for you next year", I would be perfectly fine with them going to IU or anywhere they wanted.

Whoaaa there! Let's reel in this crazy talk a little bit. I suppose you guys also believe Painter shouldn't be allowed to restrict which school an unsigned HS recruit goes to either. Crazy talk!!!

 

[BigRed3588]

I don't like the fact that schools can restrict a player regardless of the circumstances. A scholarship is good for 1 year. If the player completes that year, he fulfilled his end and should be able to go wherever he wants. Would it piss me off if someone like Anunoby or Bryant transferred to PU? Yeah, it would. But they should have that choice like any other student.

 

[Dryfly88]

I don't like the fact that schools can restrict a player regardless of the circumstances. A scholarship is good for 1 year. If the player completes that year, he fulfilled his end and should be able to go wherever he wants. Would it piss me off if someone like Anunoby or Bryant transferred to PU? Yeah, it would. But they should have that choice like any other student.

On the surface this seems like the "fair" thing to do. But can you imagine the poaching that would go on every year? It would be a free for all after every season to see which players were going to be moving to which school. Sounds reasonable when you first say it, but I don't see how that would be practical.

I can't imagine the shady things that would go on by coaches trying to get kids to transfer knowing they wouldn't have to sit out a year. Creaning would take on a whole different dimension if this were the new rules!!

 

[AZBoilerFan]

I don't like the fact that schools can restrict a player regardless of the circumstances. A scholarship is good for 1 year. If the player completes that year, he fulfilled his end and should be able to go wherever he wants. Would it piss me off if someone like Anunoby or Bryant transferred to PU? Yeah, it would. But they should have that choice like any other student.

I hear ya, but if there are zero restrictions there could be a huge mess. Can you imagine if all the top players (that were not going to the NBA that year) decided to transfer to the same school?