Matt Painter - Great Coach

[reswat]

I'm still undecided about weather Matt Painter is a great coach or not. By 'great coach', I mean one of those coaches that turn programs into a UCLA, Duke, North Carolina, Kansas, Michigan State, Kentucky type of program. Each of those programs had a coach that stayed for many years and left the program in elite status. In my mind, it's still possible that Matt Painter is one of those.

1) When you look at the career arc of Coach K, Dean Smith, Tom izzo, etc. you see that it took just a few years before they reached their first final four. Matt Painter was on the same arc until Robbie Hummel hurt his knee. After that first peak, most of those coaches had a down period.

2) Each of the coaches above has had down years, or multiple down years. None of them have had unbroken success.

3) Matt Painter is able to take responsibility for his own actions. We've all heard multiple instances of this. Most recently, he took responsibility for early season losses last year due to his desire to give playing time to weaker players. That is not easy to do.

4) Matt Painter is willing to learn and is still learning. I recently read about him having another coach come in to watch him coach. That coach told Matt that he talks a lot to his players, but he doesn't get feedback about whether the are actually listening.

5) Recruiting seems to have turned around.

6) In many situations, Matt Painter teams make strong runs in the second half. This must be due to adjustments made at halftime. I thought it was interesting, after the Iowa game, that Matt Painter said one problem was that they had no adjustments to make at halftime. They played so well in the first half that he didn't have a lot to say at halftime. To me, this ability to make adustments is a sign of a good coach.

7) Matt Painter is willing to make tough decisions. Many examples, but most recent example is his willingness to bench A.J. at the beginning of this season.

8) A few years ago, a Matt Painter team was right at the top of the nation for lowest turnovers. He knows how to get that done. This is a young team, and Biggie has been terrible with turnovers so far. I believe Bigge will get better and so will the whole team. I just hope it happens before AJ & RayDay graduate.

9) Coaching is a lot harder than most people seem to realize.

I think there are other reasons, but this is a good start.

 

[Boiler Buck]

Really? Painter has not been to a FF yet. Right now the data says he is a good coach......great maybe someday....we will see....let's hope so.

I can say he is a coach I respect.....a lot. Not all programs can say that.

 

[HomelessHarvey97]

G

I'm still undecided about weather Matt Painter is a great coach or not. By 'great coach', I mean one of those coaches that turn programs into a UCLA, Duke, North Carolina, Kansas, Michigan State, Kentucky type of program. Each of those programs had a coach that stayed for many years and left the program in elite status. In my mind, it's still possible that Matt Painter is one of those.

1) When you look at the career arc of Coach K, Dean Smith, Tom izzo, etc. you see that it took just a few years before they reached their first final four. Matt Painter was on the same arc until Robbie Hummel hurt his knee. After that first peak, most of those coaches had a down period.

2) Each of the coaches above has had down years, or multiple down years. None of them have had unbroken success.

3) Matt Painter is able to take responsibility for his own actions. We've all heard multiple instances of this. Most recently, he took responsibility for early season losses last year due to his desire to give playing time to weaker players. That is not easy to do.

4) Matt Painter is willing to learn and is still learning. I recently read about him having another coach come in to watch him coach. That coach told Matt that he talks a lot to his players, but he doesn't get feedback about whether the are actually listening.

5) Recruiting seems to have turned around.

6) In many situations, Matt Painter teams make strong runs in the second half. This must be due to adjustments made at halftime. I thought it was interesting, after the Iowa game, that Matt Painter said one problem was that they had no adjustments to make at halftime. They played so well in the first half that he didn't have a lot to say at halftime. To me, this ability to make adustments is a sign of a good coach.

7) Matt Painter is willing to make tough decisions. Many examples, but most recent example is his willingness to bench A.J. at the beginning of this season.

8) A few years ago, a Matt Painter team was right at the top of the nation for lowest turnovers. He knows how to get that done. This is a young team, and Biggie has been terrible with turnovers so far. I believe Bigge will get better and so will the whole team. I just hope it happens before AJ & RayDay graduate.

9) Coaching is a lot harder than most people seem to realize.

I think there are other reasons, but this is a good start.

Great post. I think he is currently an above average coach with the ability to be a top 5 guy. You wonder if he had the luxuries/leniencies of a Kentucky, Louisville, etc if he would have already reached that level.

 

[atmafola]

Deep in my heart, I seriously doubt he is. I know he is a good coach. yes he has his weakness, he has improved in some areas. But then he positively shocked me when he landed a burger boy in Biggie. I am hoping for a similar final four surprise.

 

[TopSecretBoiler]

I think the great coaches understand the mental aspect of the game. They are able to get the fight out of their players. I'm not sure he's there yet with that aspect. It's almost psychology. I watched the 30 for 30 on the NC State natty champ team. Even decades later, you could see the fight and passion come out in those guys when they talked about playing their opponents. Some players have it naturally, but a lot don't and great coaches are experts at cultivating championship attitudes.

 

[cprh9u]

He is not a great coach. Sure he COULD be someday, but I don't think so when you compare what he has done compared to the truly great coaches you mentioned. This is CMP's 11th year at Purdue, and he has 1 co-B1G championship and 2 sweet 16's to his name. After 10 years at Duke, coach K had 4 final 4's and 2 runner ups (he won it all in years 11 and 12). After 10 years at MSU, Izzo had 4 final 4's (including a championship), 4 conference championships and 5 elite 8's. At least hitting the elite 8 every other year on average... not too shabby. After 10 years at UNC, Dean Smith had 4 conference championships, 3 final 4's and a national championship.

I think Painter is about an average coach, some of you think he is pretty good. But let's not start the great talk about a coach who has never advanced to the elite 8 or won an outright conference championship. In 10 more years, if he has 4 final 4's, several conference championships and 2 national championships, then we can have this conversation. He has plenty of talent this year, so 2016 would be a great time to start building towards greatness. Hopefully he is up for the challenge (along with RD, AJH, Biggie, KS, Dakota and company).

 

[PU52Chevy]

I wouldn't want anyone else at Purdue...he knows the rules and follows them and is a players coach and he also graduated from Purdue and is a Purdue guy.

Enough said for me......he is a student and teacher of the game and builder of young men.

They all love him and trust him as a coach and mentor.....and so do I.

Boiler Up!

 

[Bigohh]

Really? Painter has not been to a FF yet. Right now the data says he is a good coach......great maybe someday....we will see....let's hope so.

I can say he is a coach I respect.....a lot. Not all programs can say that.

I cannot agree with you. He is a lot like GK and I am hoping he can mature and become more humble as he is an arrogant a$$ at this time. I also do not like his morality compass direction but he seems to have calmed his libido of late and focused more on his job. I think the next 3-4 years are critical for him in that he finally broke through in recruiting a McD AA in Biggie and needs more success in this arena and needs more success in developing 3 star talent like Kendall, Dakota, and Vince to get to the ff.

 

[pumsu]

Hard to match those name programs. Painter is a good coach at what has historically been a " nice" program. Keady was a very good coach, but no FF. One in 1980, just a solid program.

 

[BBG]

I'm still undecided about weather Matt Painter is a great coach or not. By 'great coach', I mean one of those coaches that turn programs into a UCLA, Duke, North Carolina, Kansas, Michigan State, Kentucky type of program. Each of those programs had a coach that stayed for many years and left the program in elite status. In my mind, it's still possible that Matt Painter is one of those.

1) When you look at the career arc of Coach K, Dean Smith, Tom izzo, etc. you see that it took just a few years before they reached their first final four. Matt Painter was on the same arc until Robbie Hummel hurt his knee. After that first peak, most of those coaches had a down period.

2) Each of the coaches above has had down years, or multiple down years. None of them have had unbroken success.

3) Matt Painter is able to take responsibility for his own actions. We've all heard multiple instances of this. Most recently, he took responsibility for early season losses last year due to his desire to give playing time to weaker players. That is not easy to do.

4) Matt Painter is willing to learn and is still learning. I recently read about him having another coach come in to watch him coach. That coach told Matt that he talks a lot to his players, but he doesn't get feedback about whether the are actually listening.

5) Recruiting seems to have turned around.

6) In many situations, Matt Painter teams make strong runs in the second half. This must be due to adjustments made at halftime. I thought it was interesting, after the Iowa game, that Matt Painter said one problem was that they had no adjustments to make at halftime. They played so well in the first half that he didn't have a lot to say at halftime. To me, this ability to make adustments is a sign of a good coach.

7) Matt Painter is willing to make tough decisions. Many examples, but most recent example is his willingness to bench A.J. at the beginning of this season.

8) A few years ago, a Matt Painter team was right at the top of the nation for lowest turnovers. He knows how to get that done. This is a young team, and Biggie has been terrible with turnovers so far. I believe Bigge will get better and so will the whole team. I just hope it happens before AJ & RayDay graduate.

9) Coaching is a lot harder than most people seem to realize.

I think there are other reasons, but this is a good start.

Great post. Sadly a handful on here will never agree with you even if Painter goes to a Final Four this year.

 

[*4purdue*]

I'm still undecided about weather Matt Painter is a great coach or not. By 'great coach', I mean one of those coaches that turn programs into a UCLA, Duke, North Carolina, Kansas, Michigan State, Kentucky type of program. Each of those programs had a coach that stayed for many years and left the program in elite status. In my mind, it's still possible that Matt Painter is one of those.

1) When you look at the career arc of Coach K, Dean Smith, Tom izzo, etc. you see that it took just a few years before they reached their first final four. Matt Painter was on the same arc until Robbie Hummel hurt his knee. After that first peak, most of those coaches had a down period.

2) Each of the coaches above has had down years, or multiple down years. None of them have had unbroken success.

3) Matt Painter is able to take responsibility for his own actions. We've all heard multiple instances of this. Most recently, he took responsibility for early season losses last year due to his desire to give playing time to weaker players. That is not easy to do.

4) Matt Painter is willing to learn and is still learning. I recently read about him having another coach come in to watch him coach. That coach told Matt that he talks a lot to his players, but he doesn't get feedback about whether the are actually listening.

5) Recruiting seems to have turned around.

6) In many situations, Matt Painter teams make strong runs in the second half. This must be due to adjustments made at halftime. I thought it was interesting, after the Iowa game, that Matt Painter said one problem was that they had no adjustments to make at halftime. They played so well in the first half that he didn't have a lot to say at halftime. To me, this ability to make adustments is a sign of a good coach.

7) Matt Painter is willing to make tough decisions. Many examples, but most recent example is his willingness to bench A.J. at the beginning of this season.

8) A few years ago, a Matt Painter team was right at the top of the nation for lowest turnovers. He knows how to get that done. This is a young team, and Biggie has been terrible with turnovers so far. I believe Bigge will get better and so will the whole team. I just hope it happens before AJ & RayDay graduate.

9) Coaching is a lot harder than most people seem to realize.

I think there are other reasons, but this is a good start.

I think we have a window of this year & next year as having a great chance to get to the FF. If we don't with one of these teams, I'm not sure he ever will.

 

[BBG]

I think we have a window of this year & next year as having a great chance to get to the FF. If we don't with one of these teams, I'm not sure he ever will.

This I can agree with. It also will depend how his recruiting classes pan out in 2017 and 18. If he gets a couple really good classes, I might be more apt to give him another year to make some noise.

What would be part for the course is if he left here and in 5 years of leaving get a F4. That would just suck

 

[tjreese]

I'm still undecided about weather Matt Painter is a great coach or not. By 'great coach', I mean one of those coaches that turn programs into a UCLA, Duke, North Carolina, Kansas, Michigan State, Kentucky type of program. Each of those programs had a coach that stayed for many years and left the program in elite status. In my mind, it's still possible that Matt Painter is one of those.

1) When you look at the career arc of Coach K, Dean Smith, Tom izzo, etc. you see that it took just a few years before they reached their first final four. Matt Painter was on the same arc until Robbie Hummel hurt his knee. After that first peak, most of those coaches had a down period.

2) Each of the coaches above has had down years, or multiple down years. None of them have had unbroken success.

3) Matt Painter is able to take responsibility for his own actions. We've all heard multiple instances of this. Most recently, he took responsibility for early season losses last year due to his desire to give playing time to weaker players. That is not easy to do.

4) Matt Painter is willing to learn and is still learning. I recently read about him having another coach come in to watch him coach. That coach told Matt that he talks a lot to his players, but he doesn't get feedback about whether the are actually listening.

5) Recruiting seems to have turned around.

6) In many situations, Matt Painter teams make strong runs in the second half. This must be due to adjustments made at halftime. I thought it was interesting, after the Iowa game, that Matt Painter said one problem was that they had no adjustments to make at halftime. They played so well in the first half that he didn't have a lot to say at halftime. To me, this ability to make adustments is a sign of a good coach.

7) Matt Painter is willing to make tough decisions. Many examples, but most recent example is his willingness to bench A.J. at the beginning of this season.

8) A few years ago, a Matt Painter team was right at the top of the nation for lowest turnovers. He knows how to get that done. This is a young team, and Biggie has been terrible with turnovers so far. I believe Bigge will get better and so will the whole team. I just hope it happens before AJ & RayDay graduate.

9) Coaching is a lot harder than most people seem to realize.

I think there are other reasons, but this is a good start.

Why do so many want to weigh a coaches abilities on how far a team advances in a hand selected site, a hand paired team and hand paired bracket where the coaches know less about the other team, less about the other players than weighing a coaches abilities on more direct comparisons, not hand selected teams, not hand selected sites and definitely not placed in a bracket to generate more wealth for the NCAA? Why is knowing less about the opposition under the previous conditions a sign of a better coach than knowing the opposition better and not having so much hand selection? Players are probably more important in the tourney and getting players can be much more than a coaches ability to recruit.

 

[reswat]

As some of you have pointed out, Painter's first 10 years falls short of what some other coaches have accomplished. I wonder how much it would have changed if Robbie's knee had not failed and we got a FF or NC that year. Do we get Gary Harris? Do we get Branden Dawson? etc.

What I know is that for every program that is now considered 'elite', you can go back to a single coach that essentially 'put the program on his back' and raised an ordinary or good program up to elite status. I'm curious if anyone can list an elite program that didn't have a coach there for 25+ years to raise them to that level. These are the ones I can think of:

UCLA - Wooden
Kansas - Phog Allen
(Interesting note from Wikipedia: The Jayhawks' first coach was the inventor of the game, James Naismith, who is the only coach in the program's history with a losing record)
Kentucky - Adolph Rupp
Indiana - Bobby Knight
Syracuse - Jim Boeheim
Duke - Coach K
North Carolina - Dean Smith
Michigan State - Tom Izzo (not yet 25 years)

It seems possible to raise the program in lesser time than 25 years, but elite programs can essentially all be traced back to one coach, and that coach has to gain success and then stay there long enough to raise the program from 'good' to 'great' to 'elite'

 

[PaBoiler78]

As some of you have pointed out, Painter's first 10 years falls short of what some other coaches have accomplished. I wonder how much it would have changed if Robbie's knee had not failed and we got a FF or NC that year. Do we get Gary Harris? Do we get Branden Dawson? etc.

What I know is that for every program that is now considered 'elite', you can go back to a single coach that essentially 'put the program on his back' and raised an ordinary or good program up to elite status. I'm curious if anyone can list an elite program that didn't have a coach there for 25+ years to raise them to that level. These are the ones I can think of:

UCLA - Wooden
Kansas - Phog Allen
(Interesting note from Wikipedia: The Jayhawks' first coach was the inventor of the game, James Naismith, who is the only coach in the program's history with a losing record)
Kentucky - Adolph Rupp
Indiana - Bobby Knight
Syracuse - Jim Boeheim
Duke - Coach K
North Carolina - Dean Smith
Michigan State - Tom Izzo (not yet 25 years)

It seems possible to raise the program in lesser time than 25 years, but elite programs can essentially all be traced back to one coach, and that coach has to gain success and then stay there long enough to raise the program from 'good' to 'great' to 'elite'

on a rating scale with 5 Excellent
4 Very Good
3 Good

I'd give Painter a 3.5

 

[walstib816]

Sadly the fact that he went to Purdue clouds most people judgement. I hope the best for this team but I also hope Matt is not our coach much longer. Here are some questions for the Painter heads:

Does Matt pick the players he recruits ?
How successful is he in getting his top choices?
When was the last time we had a good solid point guard? and before that?
When will we learn to inbound the ball?
When will we be good at defending the inbound ball?
When pray tell will we learn to feed the post effectively?
Is it possible for Matt to make an adjustment during the game? (successful adjustment)
We seem to be out hustled and out played regularly, who picks the players?
Other then a quick 3's how many positions does our center never touch the ball? (answer a bunch)

Matt had a great year at SIU for 1 year and a few great BIG 10 campaigns but nothing more.
Other then Bruce Weber using Bill Self's team, what Keady prodigy has ever made it to the final four?...nuff said.

 

[PU pit bull]

Mike Davis was a great coach......................

 

[boiler-deuce]

Great post. Sadly a handful on here will never agree with you even if Painter goes to a Final Four this year.

Show me that Final4....instead of "You'd do this if that happend"..."You'd say that even if this happend". I'd love to see you hold Painter to this high standard. I can tell you this: When Painter was being courted by Mizzu, I was scared to death. My heart just sunk because I thought he was really going to make things happen here. And, I give him credit for getting the most out of that situation. But, guess what? If that happened now, I'd say let his ass go. He milked the program for himself and his assistants. Since then, it's been time to show us the money. No matter what you promise the future to be, as if you know, he has not been getting it done.

 

[RegionBoiler4]

I cannot agree with you. He is a lot like GK and I am hoping he can mature and become more humble as he is an arrogant a$$ at this time. I also do not like his morality compass direction but he seems to have calmed his libido of late and focused more on his job. I think the next 3-4 years are critical for him in that he finally broke through in recruiting a McD AA in Biggie and needs more success in this arena and needs more success in developing 3 star talent like Kendall, Dakota, and Vince to get to the ff.

 

[mathboy]

Sadly the fact that he went to Purdue clouds most people judgement. I hope the best for this team but I also hope Matt is not our coach much longer. Here are some questions for the Painter heads:

Does Matt pick the players he recruits ? Obviously, why the troll-like question?
How successful is he in getting his top choices? Improving. He oftren goes after the same kids as MSU. That is a good sign that he is targeting the right kids.
When was the last time we had a good solid point guard? and before that? PJ has been successful. So were Painter's previous PG's, with the exception of 4-star Ronnie J. If you are referencing the Iowa game, please realize that working against a press takes more than a PG. It requires a team effort.
When will we learn to inbound the ball? We inbound the ball 99.9% of the time just fine, and probably better.
When will we be good at defending the inbound ball? Most of our games we have done well defending the inbounds this year. You ask the question as though we rarely defend it well. Why?
When pray tell will we learn to feed the post effectively? We are the best BIG team at feeding the post. Pray tell me why this is even a question?
Is it possible for Matt to make an adjustment during the game? (successful adjustment) He frequently makes ajustments. So do many other coaches. This year Matt's adjustments worked in 15 or 17 games so far.
We seem to be out hustled and out played regularly, who picks the players? Regularly??? Really??? Why do you say this?
Other then a quick 3's how many positions does our center never touch the ball? (answer a bunch) ...Your answer is correct. ...and your point?

Matt had a great year at SIU for 1 year and a few great BIG 10 campaigns but nothing more. He has been very successful when given the propoer budget for assistamnts and for recruiting. Your comment "...but nothing more" seems inflamatory and rediculously short sighted.

Other then Bruce Weber using Bill Self's team, what Keady prodigy has ever made it to the final four?...nuff said This is extraordianarily weak logic and poor cause/effect thinking. I get it, you don't like Painter. That is okay, but when you post your viewpoint, you might brace for those who strongly disagree with your position. In fact, your logic chain above (only seen after a loss) is laughable.

 

[HomelessHarvey97]

I cannot agree with you. He is a lot like GK and I am hoping he can mature and become more humble as he is an arrogant a$$ at this time. I also do not like his morality compass direction but he seems to have calmed his libido of late and focused more on his job. I think the next 3-4 years are critical for him in that he finally broke through in recruiting a McD AA in Biggie and needs more success in this arena and needs more success in developing 3 star talent like Kendall, Dakota, and Vince to get to the ff.

'

Sadly the fact that he went to Purdue clouds most people judgement. I hope the best for this team but I also hope Matt is not our coach much longer. Here are some questions for the Painter heads:

Does Matt pick the players he recruits ? Obviously, why the troll-like question?
How successful is he in getting his top choices? Improving. He oftren goes after the same kids as MSU. That is a good sign that he is targeting the right kids.
When was the last time we had a good solid point guard? and before that? PJ has been successful. So were Painter's previous PG's, with the exception of 4-star Ronnie J. If you are referencing the Iowa game, please realize that working against a press takes more than a PG. It requires a team effort.
When will we learn to inbound the ball? We inbound the ball 99.9% of the time just fine, and probably better.
When will we be good at defending the inbound ball? Most of our games we have done well defending the inbounds this year. You ask the question as though we rarely defend it well. Why?
When pray tell will we learn to feed the post effectively? We are the best BIG team at feeding the post. Pray tell me why this is even a question?
Is it possible for Matt to make an adjustment during the game? (successful adjustment) He frequently makes ajustments. So do many other coaches. This year Matt's adjustments worked in 15 or 17 games so far.
We seem to be out hustled and out played regularly, who picks the players? Regularly??? Really??? Why do you say this?
Other then a quick 3's how many positions does our center never touch the ball? (answer a bunch) ...Your answer is correct. ...and your point?

Matt had a great year at SIU for 1 year and a few great BIG 10 campaigns but nothing more. He has been very successful when given the propoer budget for assistamnts and for recruiting. Your comment "...but nothing more" seems inflamatory and rediculously short sighted.

Other then Bruce Weber using Bill Self's team, what Keady prodigy has ever made it to the final four?...nuff said This is extraordianarily weak logic and poor cause/effect thinking. I get it, you don't like Painter. That is okay, but when you post your viewpoint, you might brace for those who strongly disagree with your position. In fact, your logic chain above (only seen after a loss) is laughable.

Well played. This was a horrific bitch session at best.

 

[BBG]

Show me that Final4....instead of "You'd do this if that happend"..."You'd say that even if this happend". I'd love to see you hold Painter to this high standard. I can tell you this: When Painter was being courted by Mizzu, I was scared to death. My heart just sunk because I thought he was really going to make things happen here. And, I give him credit for getting the most out of that situation. But, guess what? If that happened now, I'd say let his ass go. He milked the program for himself and his assistants. Since then, it's been time to show us the money. No matter what you promise the future to be, as if you know, he has not been getting it done.

In your opinion..only. You are quick to emotionally judge Painter and even quicker to discount the good things he does and has done. We get it, you don't like Painter and that is fine. But to set the standard that if a coach doesn't go to a Final Four every 10 years or he gets fired, is just not realistic. Especially when before injury, that same coach had a team favored to get there and at the time was rolling everyone.

But again, it's your right to say whatever you want and we are never going to agree. You say that I can't tell whether Painter will get to a F4 in the future and you are right, just like you can't tell that he won't. What we can see is that after he made some mistakes (which he owned up to) he is putting the pieces in place to get to one more than not. We have Biggie, Haas and a very good one on Carsen Edwards coming in and I just choose to see how that plays out rather than give up so easily.

But like I said.. we simply are never going to agree nor change each other's opinion.

 

[walstib816]

Sadly the fact that he went to Purdue clouds most people judgement. I hope the best for this team but I also hope Matt is not our coach much longer. Here are some questions for the Painter heads:

Does Matt pick the players he recruits ? Obviously, why the troll-like question?
How successful is he in getting his top choices? Improving. He oftren goes after the same kids as MSU. That is a good sign that he is targeting the right kids.
Targeting kids and getting them are 2 different things how many bigs did he swing at this year and how many did he get now that his budget has increased?
When was the last time we had a good solid point guard? and before that? PJ has been successful. So were Painter's previous PG's, with the exception of 4-star Ronnie J. If you are referencing the Iowa game, please realize that working against a press takes more than a PG. It requires a team effort.
Not referring to Iowa, referring to RJ, KB, and our inability to get a highly sought after point guard on the team. I thought Lew Jack played with more heart and effort then just about any other Purdue player but he had obvious limitations and he needed help at the position....how freaking long do we wait for a strong PG ? and I am not sure Lew Jack would have been in that category but I realize injuries in his Junior and Senior season limited him....WHERE WAS HIS BACK UP???
When will we learn to inbound the ball? We inbound the ball 99.9% of the time just fine, and probably better.Let me know the next time we get an easy bucket from an in bound play...it should happen at least once a game and no quick 3pointers do not count.
When will we be good at defending the inbound ball? Most of our games we have done well defending the inbounds this year. You ask the question as though we rarely defend it well. Why?Almost every game the other team gets a lay up from an in bounds play, that is why.
When pray tell will we learn to feed the post effectively? We are the best BIG team at feeding the post. Pray tell me why this is even a question? We are terrible at passing correctly into the post and the numbers can be deceiving, please you have to be seeing the same thing I do.
Is it possible for Matt to make an adjustment during the game? (successful adjustment) He frequently makes ajustments. So do many other coaches. This year Matt's adjustments worked in 15 or 17 games so far.I do not consider changing players an adjustment. Matt is terrible at in game adjustments we play the same no matter what is happening.
We seem to be out hustled and out played regularly, who picks the players? Regularly??? Really??? Why do you say this? Butler, Butler, Butler we were out coached and out hustled by a team we should have beaten, but I think if we played them again they would beat us again, sadly.
Other then a quick 3's how many positions does our center never touch the ball? (answer a bunch) ...Your answer is correct. ...and your point? Coaching should dictate how we play and who touches the ball, we have 2 very good centers who routinely do not touch the ball for multiple possessions.

Matt had a great year at SIU for 1 year and a few great BIG 10 campaigns but nothing more. He has been very successful when given the propoer budget for assistamnts and for recruiting. Your comment "...but nothing more" seems inflamatory and rediculously short sighted. Let's hope Rosie adopts more kids.

Other then Bruce Weber using Bill Self's team, what Keady prodigy has ever made it to the final four?...nuff said This is extraordianarily weak logic and poor cause/effect thinking. I get it, you don't like Painter. That is okay, but when you post your viewpoint, you might brace for those who strongly disagree with your position. In fact, your logic chain above (only seen after a loss) is laughable.

It is laughable the amount of years Gene and his prodigies have coached with little to no tournament success. That is laughable....I hope we win tonight and right the ship then I can crawl back under my rock for a while...

 

[boiler-deuce]

In your opinion..only. You are quick to emotionally judge Painter and even quicker to discount the good things he does and has done. We get it, you don't like Painter and that is fine. But to set the standard that if a coach doesn't go to a Final Four every 10 years or he gets fired, is just not realistic. Especially when before injury, that same coach had a team favored to get there and at the time was rolling everyone.

But again, it's your right to say whatever you want and we are never going to agree. You say that I can't tell whether Painter will get to a F4 in the future and you are right, just like you can't tell that he won't. What we can see is that after he made some mistakes (which he owned up to) he is putting the pieces in place to get to one more than not. We have Biggie, Haas and a very good one on Carsen Edwards coming in and I just choose to see how that plays out rather than give up so easily.

But like I said.. we simply are never going to agree nor change each other's opinion.

I guess it's basically perception, as I think you are emotionally judging my opinion. I don't demean you. I don't insult you, like any and all who think like me get here. I don't get my panties in a bind and threaten to put others on ignore because, OH MY GAWD!! I disagree!! I'm simply stating the facts surrounding Painters track record, while you state an opinion of he'll turn it around. Yes, BBG, I admit and have never denied Painter had the ball really rolling. He blew it, which is what ticks me off a bit. However... Do you intentionally ignore my comments that he did have things rolling? Do you intentionally ignore my comments of being worried when Mizzu courted him? And, do you also intentionally ignore my comments of NOT calling for him to be fired right now? I also paraded out all other big schools in the state who've been more successful than Painter. Seriously? Do you really think we're worthy of being the most unsuccessful program in Basketball AND Football? Holy crap!! Yes, we have Biggie....yes, we have Haas...and sorry, but "Maybe" we have a "good one in Carsen Edwards coming in". Gee, we've heard that enough ad nauseum, year after year since the baby boilers left. And, how long ago was that? Doesn't matter, it's been forever as those other programs have gone places in this state. It just is what it is. Maybe he'll get this ship turned back around. I do hope so...which is why I don't call for him to be canned. But, I am getting tired of the unanswered promise every damn year. That next year continues to be an empty promise. He needs to get this thing figured out and on the double.

 

[BBG]

I guess it's basically perception, as I think you are emotionally judging my opinion. I don't demean you. I don't insult you, like any and all who think like me get here. I don't get my panties in a bind and threaten to put others on ignore because, OH MY GAWD!! I disagree!! I'm simply stating the facts surrounding Painters track record, while you state an opinion of he'll turn it around. Yes, BBG, I admit and have never denied Painter had the ball really rolling. He blew it, which is what ticks me off a bit. However... Do you intentionally ignore my comments that he did have things rolling? Do you intentionally ignore my comments of being worried when Mizzu courted him? And, do you also intentionally ignore my comments of NOT calling for him to be fired right now? I also paraded out all other big schools in the state who've been more successful than Painter. Seriously? Do you really think we're worthy of being the most unsuccessful program in Basketball AND Football? Holy crap!! Yes, we have Biggie....yes, we have Haas...and sorry, but "Maybe" we have a "good one in Carsen Edwards coming in". Gee, we've heard that enough ad nauseum, year after year since the baby boilers left. And, how long ago was that? Doesn't matter, it's been forever as those other programs have gone places in this state. It just is what it is. Maybe he'll get this ship turned back around. I do hope so...which is why I don't call for him to be canned. But, I am getting tired of the unanswered promise every damn year. That next year continues to be an empty promise. He needs to get this thing figured out and on the double.

And like I said we can just agree to disagree because we simply see things differently and that is perfectly fine. If we all start thinking alike, then none of this matters.

Like I have said previously, I have no real issue with you. If you want Painter gone then that is most certainly you're right to do so. There are others on here that clearly have some agenda against Painter because their track record shows it.

Ultimately we want Purdue to succeed. I'm in full support of Painter not due to emotion, but because he is our coach for some time to come yet so I guess I just don't see the need to call for his head until the time comes. So I support the team and the staff until then.

Like I said, I have zero issue with you and would buy you many beers i bet. We just see things differently and that is okay.

 

[boiler-deuce]

And like I said we can just agree to disagree because we simply see things differently and that is perfectly fine. If we all start thinking alike, then none of this matters.

Like I have said previously, I have no real issue with you. If you want Painter gone then that is most certainly you're right to do so. There are others on here that clearly have some agenda against Painter because their track record shows it.

Ultimately we want Purdue to succeed. I'm in full support of Painter not due to emotion, but because he is our coach for some time to come yet so I guess I just don't see the need to call for his head until the time comes. So I support the team and the staff until then.

Like I said, I have zero issue with you and would buy you many beers i bet. We just see things differently and that is okay.

Please understand, I DO NOT wish Painter fired. Yet. And, I totally agree we'd get along well as we both want our program to succeed. BTW......Looks like we'll get a nice win tonight!!

 

[BBG]

Please understand, I DO NOT wish Painter fired. Yet. And, I totally agree we'd get along well as we both want our program to succeed. BTW......Looks like we'll get a nice win tonight!!

I get it deuce. It's all good .. big.. big win after the loss.

 

[Casey and his Brother]

I also do not like his morality compass direction but he seems to have calmed his libido of late and focused more on his job.

Take an ED pill for Christ's sake. You must really hate the guys who founded this country then.

 

[Swoosh13]

Bump

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Bump

The class of 2017 will be big for Matt's future at Purdue.

 

[honey_badger]

He is a great D coach and a B- offensive coach but one of the best of all time in the Big Ten if you compare first years accurately across the parallel of their careers.

 

[threeeputtt]

I'm still undecided about weather Matt Painter is a great coach or not. By 'great coach', I mean one of those coaches that turn programs into a UCLA, Duke, North Carolina, Kansas, Michigan State, Kentucky type of program. Each of those programs had a coach that stayed for many years and left the program in elite status. In my mind, it's still possible that Matt Painter is one of those.

1) When you look at the career arc of Coach K, Dean Smith, Tom izzo, etc. you see that it took just a few years before they reached their first final four. Matt Painter was on the same arc until Robbie Hummel hurt his knee. After that first peak, most of those coaches had a down period.

2) Each of the coaches above has had down years, or multiple down years. None of them have had unbroken success.

3) Matt Painter is able to take responsibility for his own actions. We've all heard multiple instances of this. Most recently, he took responsibility for early season losses last year due to his desire to give playing time to weaker players. That is not easy to do.

4) Matt Painter is willing to learn and is still learning. I recently read about him having another coach come in to watch him coach. That coach told Matt that he talks a lot to his players, but he doesn't get feedback about whether the are actually listening.

5) Recruiting seems to have turned around.

6) In many situations, Matt Painter teams make strong runs in the second half. This must be due to adjustments made at halftime. I thought it was interesting, after the Iowa game, that Matt Painter said one problem was that they had no adjustments to make at halftime. They played so well in the first half that he didn't have a lot to say at halftime. To me, this ability to make adustments is a sign of a good coach.

7) Matt Painter is willing to make tough decisions. Many examples, but most recent example is his willingness to bench A.J. at the beginning of this season.

8) A few years ago, a Matt Painter team was right at the top of the nation for lowest turnovers. He knows how to get that done. This is a young team, and Biggie has been terrible with turnovers so far. I believe Bigge will get better and so will the whole team. I just hope it happens before AJ & RayDay graduate.

9) Coaching is a lot harder than most people seem to realize.

I think there are other reasons, but this is a good start.

Been here 12 years. 2 S16's, one BT reg title. I am patient but, that is getting thin. Reminds me of Ray Eddy era. See: https://purdue.forums.rivals.com/threads/ray-eddyish.88920/

 

[atmafola]

As some of you have pointed out, Painter's first 10 years falls short of what some other coaches have accomplished. I wonder how much it would have changed if Robbie's knee had not failed and we got a FF or NC that year. Do we get Gary Harris? Do we get Branden Dawson? etc.

What I know is that for every program that is now considered 'elite', you can go back to a single coach that essentially 'put the program on his back' and raised an ordinary or good program up to elite status. I'm curious if anyone can list an elite program that didn't have a coach there for 25+ years to raise them to that level. These are the ones I can think of:

UCLA - Wooden
Kansas - Phog Allen
(Interesting note from Wikipedia: The Jayhawks' first coach was the inventor of the game, James Naismith, who is the only coach in the program's history with a losing record)
Kentucky - Adolph Rupp
Indiana - Bobby Knight
Syracuse - Jim Boeheim
Duke - Coach K
North Carolina - Dean Smith
Michigan State - Tom Izzo (not yet 25 years)

It seems possible to raise the program in lesser time than 25 years, but elite programs can essentially all be traced back to one coach, and that coach has to gain success and then stay there long enough to raise the program from 'good' to 'great' to 'elite'

Coach Painter is not on that trajectory. Those coaches stayed 25 years becuase they won the big ones relatively early. They were not middling to good and hanging around.

Also, as unfortunate as Hummel's ACL was, it was not a bad thing for Coach Painter. It prevented us from finding out early that Painter is just not built to win the big ones. I am willing to bet that without Hummel's injury, we still won't have passed sweet 16.

 

[rjmpu82]

I think Painter knows basketball, but is slow to evolve with the changes in the game and maybe even stubborn. I think he is beginning to recognize talent. I have never been to a practice or in the locker room, so I have no idea about his leadership or motivational abilities. He is complacent on the sidelines most of the time. He seems to be an observer more than a motivator. Compare him to the coaches who have been to multiple FF and he seems to lack the fire they have. He seems to struggle with decision making under pressure and doesn't seem to have the ability to right the ship when it gets in trouble down the stretch. You rarely see his players in trouble off the court or in the classroom, for which I am very grateful.

 

[atmafola]

I think Painter knows basketball, but is slow to evolve with the changes in the game and maybe even stubborn. I think he is beginning to recognize talent. I have never been to a practice or in the locker room, so I have no idea about his leadership or motivational abilities. He is complacent on the sidelines most of the time. He seems to be an observer more than a motivator. Compare him to the coaches who have been to multiple FF and he seems to lack the fire they have. He seems to struggle with decision making under pressure and doesn't seem to have the ability to right the ship when it gets in trouble down the stretch. You rarely see his players in trouble off the court or in the classroom, for which I am very grateful.

Seeing his practice is not necessary. If he can motivate, it wouuld show up in the results.

 

[uelnesm]

Painter has been @ Purdue 11 years
8 Years in the NCAA (good)
2 times to the Sweet 16 ('08-'09'; '09-'10)

Never beyond the sweet 16.

My expectations have been lowered from "Final Four or National Champ." to "make the tournament and win a game".

11 years is enough for me

 

[boilermaker75]

Seeing his practice is not necessary. If he can motivate, it wouuld show up in the results.

Exactly.

 

[FirstDownB]

I think Painter knows basketball, but is slow to evolve with the changes in the game and maybe even stubborn. I think he is beginning to recognize talent. I have never been to a practice or in the locker room, so I have no idea about his leadership or motivational abilities. He is complacent on the sidelines most of the time. He seems to be an observer more than a motivator. Compare him to the coaches who have been to multiple FF and he seems to lack the fire they have. He seems to struggle with decision making under pressure and doesn't seem to have the ability to right the ship when it gets in trouble down the stretch. You rarely see his players in trouble off the court or in the classroom, for which I am very grateful.

I think we all know by now he isn't an uber passionate rah rah kind of guy. Maybe even a little cold and stand off-ish. By contrast, watching the UALR coach, it felt like he was practically 'willing' his team on during that comeback and in the overtimes.

Maybe an even more important question, beyond what you or I think about his sideline demeanor is Does he instill confidence in his players? That is one of the marks of a great leader. And X's and O's aside, that is a big part of the coaching equation.

 

[plaxico80]

No, Matt Painter isn't anywhere near close to a "great" coach.

Well, maybe he is if you consider Richard Marx to be a "great" singer.

Carrot Top to be a "great" comedian.

Pauly Shore to be a "great" actor, etc.

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

This I can agree with. It also will depend how his recruiting classes pan out in 2017 and 18. If he gets a couple really good classes, I might be more apt to give him another year to make some noise.

What would be part for the course is if he left here and in 5 years of leaving get a F4. That would just suck

But my issue is what has Painter done in the last 10 years to show he is capable of those things? Painter hasn't been an elite recruiter and isn't just going to turn in to one for the 18 and 18 classes. It is widely regarded that Martin was the one at the point of the recruiting of Hummel, Johnson, Moore, and Martin. Since Martin left, there has been a size-able sample of struggles in recruiting and in-game planning and management.

The worst thing that could have happened was losing Martin for a head coaching gig and not replacing him with someone of better or roughly equal coaching talent as an assistant coach.