Mac vs. PJ

[FirstDownB]

I'll just leave this here..

McIntosh: .428 FG%, .367 3P%, .841 FT%, AST/TO 2.5, STL 1.2
Thompson: .429 FG%, .404 3P%, .818 FT%, AST/TO 5.8, STL 1.6

Supposed 'savior' vs. supposed 'weak link'
Edit: Sorry if this last line was derogatory toward McIntosh. My point was PJ is fulfilling his role on this team as well as we could have hoped, taking care of the ball and knocking down shots at a rate similar to the player many coveted.

 

[BBG]

PJ is doing a great job for us and is turning out to be a really good PG. I doubted him early on but am enjoying the crow.

 

[Heller]

I'll just leave this here..

McIntosh: .428 FG%, .367 3P%, .841 FT%, AST/TO 2.5, STL 1.2
Thompson: .429 FG%, .404 3P%, .818 FT%, AST/TO 5.8, STL 1.6

Supposed 'savior' vs. supposed 'weak link'

Except McIntosh is asked to do a lot more than PJ which means taking more risky shots among other factors.

 

[pboiler18]

Except McIntosh is asked to do a lot more than PJ which means taking more risky shots among other factors.

Do you just suck this bad or do you enjoy being THE negative nancy?

 

[Heller]

Do you just suck this bad or do you enjoy being THE negative nancy?

What? I'm not knocking PJ, just pointing out stats don't tell the whole story. Different players have different roles.

 

[rgarlitz]

FWIW: I've heard 2 common knocks on PJ
1) He's not physically gifted enough to be a difference-maker in the B1G
2) He doesn't have Yogi Ferrell's scoring ability.

PJ seems to be answering his critics on the first point. He's no Yogi, but he doesn't have to be. He's playing on a very talented team this year and will play on a very talented team next year as well.

He does what he's asked to do. And he's doing it with a high level of efficiency.

 

[FiveWeight]

PJ really stepped up his game this year. He's careful with the ball, a good distributor, versatile, and who would have thought he would have turned into a legitimate 3-point threat? (that was the biggest surprise to me)

I also really like Hill - especially for his knack to quickly find small holes and penetrate. The two have complementary skill sets, so Painter can always have a solid PG depending on what we need at any time.

 

[Heller]

FWIW: I've heard 2 common knocks on PJ
1) He's not physically gifted enough to be a difference-maker in the B1G
2) He doesn't have Yogi Ferrell's scoring ability.

PJ seems to be answering his critics on the first point. He's no Yogi, but he doesn't have to be. He's playing on a very talented team this year and will play on a very talented team next year as well.

He does what he's asked to do. And he's doing it with a high level of efficiency.

Very few have Yogi's scoring ability. It's not a knock but he will always struggle against some matchups. Just as our bigs struggle to contain guys like Uthoff.

 

[FirstDownB]

Except McIntosh is asked to do a lot more than PJ which means taking more risky shots among other factors.

It cuts both ways. He also has waaay more of a green light to shoot and create on offense and to get in a rhythm. Bottom line is the difference in their production is much less than what most would believe.

 

[DG10]

It cuts both ways. He also has waaay more of a green light to shoot and create on offense and to get in a rhythm. Bottom line is the difference in their production is much less than what most would believe.

Which is precisely why the statistic is misleading...

PJ has done a nice job in the role that he has on this team...no denying it...but to suggest that the skill set is the same as McIntosh, or the role, is inaccurate and misleading.

For that matter...and to my first point, would you rather have PJ as the PG on this team or Jon Octeus, and, more importantly with respect to that question...would this team be a better team with Octeus or PJ as the point?

 

[Heller]

It cuts both ways. He also has waaay more of a green light to shoot and create on offense and to get in a rhythm. Bottom line is the difference in their production is much less than what most would believe.

I don't disagree with what you said. But tearing down McIntosh doesn't make PJ better. Anyone who thinks McIntosh wouldn't play for Purdue doesn't understand the game.

 

[Pharmer98]

McIntosh: 14.6 PPG; 6.8 APG; 3.4 RPG
Thompson: 6.0 PPG; 2.9 APG; 2.2 RPG

Both guys have really good %'s and ratios. Hard to ignore actual productivity though.

 

[Cevol03]

Not sure the point of this thread. PJ has been solid for us but McIntosh may sneak on to the 2nd team All conference this year. Take off the Vegas Gold glasses.

We would trade PJ for Mac in a hearbeat - no disrespect to PJ, but come on. Its a darn shame Mac was scared off by Bryson and his dad hated Purdue.

 

[FirstDownB]

I don't disagree with what you said. But tearing down McIntosh doesn't make PJ better. Anyone who thinks McIntosh wouldn't play for Purdue doesn't understand the game.

Don't take it as a personal attack on McIntosh. He has gotten lots of positive press, including on these boards. And I'm sure you are aware of the prevailing sentiment that this team was "stuck" with PJ because Painter missed on McIntosh. Just leveling up here with some objective stats.

Which is precisely why the statistic is misleading...

PJ has done a nice job in the role that he has on this team...no denying it...but to suggest that the skill set is the same as McIntosh, or the role, is inaccurate and misleading.

For that matter...and to my first point, would you rather have PJ as the PG on this team or Jon Octeus, and, more importantly with respect to that question...would this team be a better team with Octeus or PJ as the point?

If there is a better way than stats to make an objective comparison between players on 2 different teams I am all ears.

 

[TC4THREE]

I'm thrilled that PJ has stepped up as he has but I think comparisons to McIntosh are a bit unfair. McIntosh is the #1 focus of every defense Northwestern plays. PJ is probably just now starting to make it on the radar as a player to keep an eye on in scouting reports against us. McIntosh just has to do much more.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/3136749/bryant-mcintosh
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/3136993/pj-thompson

McIntosh has played 810 minutes (35 mpg) to 510 for PJ (22 mpg).
McIntosh has score more than double the points PJ has (335 to 138).
McIntosh has more than double the assists (156 to 66).

PJ has given us more than most anyone expected at the start of the season and that is commendable. I don't know that he couldn't put up similar stats to McIntosh given the opportunity but I wouldn't just extrapolate those stats over the extra 13 minutes a game that McIntosh plays. He's very impressive given what's asked of him and what's around him.

 

[boiler62]

McIntosh: 14.6 PPG; 6.8 APG; 3.4 RPG
Thompson: 6.0 PPG; 2.9 APG; 2.2 RPG

Both guys have really good %'s and ratios. Hard to ignore actual productivity though.

A missing stat is minutes per game! Both do a very nice job!

 

[PaBoiler78]

A missing stat is minutes per game! Both do a very nice job!

I think PJ has shown good improvement over his first year. After watching Neb. a couple of times this year, I do like Watson.

 

[BoilerDeac]

Do you just suck this bad or do you enjoy being THE negative nancy?

What he said was a fact. Do you enjoy deluding yourself?

 

[pboiler18]

What he said was a fact. Do you enjoy deluding yourself?

It's a problem when nothing positive can be said about a kid who works his ass off for the program without Heller chiming in to piss on him

 

[Heller]

It's a problem when nothing positive can be said about a kid who works his ass off for the program without Heller chiming in to piss on him

Except I didn't. I say lots of positive stuff about players and I rarely trash them. If you are talking about commenting that PJ had a problem keeping Mason from Minny in front of him, that was simply factual. All players struggle against certain matchups.

One of the biggest problems with these boards is people who have the cognitive ability of a rock pissing on a benign comment like it was inciting a riot.

 

[bled1720]

I'll just leave this here..

McIntosh: .428 FG%, .367 3P%, .841 FT%, AST/TO 2.5, STL 1.2
Thompson: .429 FG%, .404 3P%, .818 FT%, AST/TO 5.8, STL 1.6

Supposed 'savior' vs. supposed 'weak link'
Edit: Sorry if this last line was derogatory toward McIntosh. My point was PJ is fulfilling his role on this team as well as we could have hoped, taking care of the ball and knocking down shots at a rate similar to the player many coveted.

G

 

[SDBoiler1]

Which is precisely why the statistic is misleading...

PJ has done a nice job in the role that he has on this team...no denying it...but to suggest that the skill set is the same as McIntosh, or the role, is inaccurate and misleading.

For that matter...and to my first point, would you rather have PJ as the PG on this team or Jon Octeus, and, more importantly with respect to that question...would this team be a better team with Octeus or PJ as the point?

Octeus never shot 3s at Purdue as well as PJ has been during much of BIG season or the Florida game, for that matter.

 

[BoilerDaddy]

I'll just leave this here..

McIntosh: .428 FG%, .367 3P%, .841 FT%, AST/TO 2.5, STL 1.2
Thompson: .429 FG%, .404 3P%, .818 FT%, AST/TO 5.8, STL 1.6

Supposed 'savior' vs. supposed 'weak link'
Edit: Sorry if this last line was derogatory toward McIntosh. My point was PJ is fulfilling his role on this team as well as we could have hoped, taking care of the ball and knocking down shots at a rate similar to the player many coveted.

I think that comparing PJ to McIntosh is like comparing apples to oranges, but 40% from 3 and a 6 to 1 assist to turnover ratio are terrific numbers for PJ, regardless. He's quietly having a very efficient sophomore year.

 

[Heller]

They are different players for sure. The comparison is they would occupy the same position on this Purdue team. Now one might argue- and this is what most replies are implying- that role would look different if McIntosh were the starting PG instead of PJ, but given what the current role is (facilitate, defend, hit open shots) it is hard to argue McIntosh would be doing those things much better than PJ is.

The important thing is PJ is ours and Bryant plays for Northwestern. Other than that comparisons don't do either young man any favors.

 

[77 grad]

“Comparisons are odorous," said Shakespeare in "Much Ado About Nothing."

The play title mirrors this thread. Different players, different situations. I like both kids.

 

[Dakota Girl]

The important thing is PJ is ours and Bryant plays for Northwestern. Other than that comparisons don't do either young man any favors.

This. PJ is progressing just as he should and is on course to be very strong in the role Purdue needs him to play over the next two years. If Mac were here we might see a different role at that position.

 

[02Boilermaker]

I'm not going to compare with Mac because I do think they are vastly different situations as has already been mentioned. I am willing to compare Purdue's PGs this year vs last year. Last year, PJ + Octeus = about 40 mpg (not perfect to just include those two because PJ had some DNPs & Bryson played some PG, but I'm ignoring Bryson's #s because it's easier & the total mins for PJ + JO last year = about 1 position's minutes for the season). This year, PJ + Hill = about 40 mpg. I think replacing Octeus' production was a big concern going into this season. How have the PGs done so far?

JO + PJ last year: 40.7 min, 11.4 pts, 5.8 reb, 3.6 ast, 2.0 TO, 1.6 stl, 45.0% FG, 30.9% 3PT
PJ + JH this year: 40.0 min, 11.5 pts, 4.9 reb, 5.0 ast, 1.9 TO, 2.1 stl, 50.0% FG, 38.1% 3PT

I think at the start of the season (& even now) most of us would have signed up for those numbers in a heartbeat. Big test coming up against Trimble...hopefully our guys continue their solid efforts.

 

[SnowLeopard]

It's a problem when nothing positive can be said about a kid who works his ass off for the program without Heller chiming in to piss on him

''

Honestly, I don't see Heller doing that

Sure, he doesn't go crazy on the kool-aide, but thats not the same as what you are saying.

 

[snowsquirrel11]

Many people underestimated PJ's assets, many being intangibles (like being coach-able, high effort, high bball IQ, and was a winner in HS), and I am glad he has shown to be just as solid a player in college as he was in HS.

 

[Statey]

If there is a better way than stats to make an objective comparison between players on 2 different teams I am all ears.

I would say comparing stats is the best way to make an objective comparison, however that doesn't mean it's a great way to compare players. Similarly, the best way to win the lottery is by playing, however that doesn't mean it's a great idea to spend your hard-earned money on lotto tickets.

I think what DG10 was suggesting is that stats for an individual player on a team sport aren't worth a lot without context. There are very few basketball stats I can think of where context would be irrelevant... free-throw percentage is actually the only one that comes to mind at the moment. If you could tell everything by looking at stats, coaches would never leave their offices to go scout players... they'd just number-crunch the heck out of players' stat sheets and determine who to offer afterwards.

 

[Statey]

If there is a better way than stats to make an objective comparison between players on 2 different teams I am all ears.

I would say comparing stats is the best way to make an objective comparison, however that doesn't mean it's a great way to compare players. Similarly, the best way to win the lottery is to play it, however that doesn't mean it's a great idea to spend your hard-earned money on lotto tickets.

I think what DG10 was suggesting is that stats for an individual player on a team sport aren't worth a lot without context, roles, etc. There are very few basketball stats where context and other info wouldn't be relevant... free-throw percentage is actually the only one that comes to mind at the moment. If you could tell everything about a player by just looking at stats, coaches would never leave their offices to go scout players... they'd just number-crunch the heck out of players' stat sheets and determine who to offer afterwards.

 

[Schnelk]

The way I see it is PJ has done a great job for us this season. The other guy that we recruited has also had a fine season so far. But MacIntosh isn't a Boiler. In fact he is the enemy now. I hope we beat them good and when it's over we are all glad that PJT wears the gold and black.

 

[88btfu92]

I don't disagree with what you said. But tearing down McIntosh doesn't make PJ better. Anyone who thinks McIntosh wouldn't play for Purdue doesn't understand the game.

He'd start. Play 25 mins+. Nuff said.

 

[SDBoiler1]

He'd start. Play 25 mins+. Nuff said.

It's all irrelevant. He plays for Northwestern, a team that has never made the NCAA Tournament and won't very likely make it this year either. They will not finish the BIG season at or above .500.

 

[88btfu92]

It's all irrelevant. He plays for Northwestern, a team that has never made the NCAA Tournament and won't very likely make it this year either. They will not finish the BIG season at or above .500.

I thought this thread was about PJ and Mac? You turned into to a history lesson on Northwestern. Matt offered. He passed. That's relevant.

 

[SDBoiler1]

I thought this thread was about PJ and Mac? You turned into to a history lesson on Northwestern. Matt offered. He passed. That's relevant.

His father, an IU shill, could never allow his boy to go to Purdue, even if that meant he was sending his boy to a school with almost no basketball history whatsoever.

 

[Statey]

His father, an IU shill, could never allow his boy to go to Purdue, even if that meant he was sending his boy to a school with almost no basketball history whatsoever.

While what you're saying sort of makes sense at first, it would appear on the surface that CMP disagrees given that he and the staff spent time recruiting McIntosh and offered him a scholarship. CMP must have thought he at least had a chance here.