Still wondering how and why this kid got away to Virginia?? Can't recall of any Indiana kids ever going there.
Kyle Guy
- Thread starter *Shockerrr*
- Start date
It's because Virginia plays a very solid defensive minded game and on offense they patiently move bodies and ball while screening and probing the lane with passes and drives either scoring inside or collapsing the defense and kicking to open shooters. No team in Indiana plays that style of...
Honestly... I agree. I've never been impressed with Bennett as a tourney coach. Hasn't been much better than CMP IMO.
People need to realize it's not 1984 anymore. These kids grow up in a much smaller world. Just because someone grew up in Indianapolis doesn't make them as prone to end up at IU or Purdue as it used to. Kids are more aware of other major programs throughout the country. Coaches from all across the country are more aware of the talent in Indiana. Parents/friends/family in Indianapolis can watch and communicate with an Indy player that goes to Virginia nearly as easily as if they were at Purdue.
Virginia is a great school. I've heard they have a very nice campus although I have never been there. They have a strong basketball program right now. They play in the ACC which is arguably the top basketball conference. The weather there will be better than here in Indiana and some kids are prone to try to get a little further away from home than stay close.
We don't know all the reasons and factors Guy chose Virginia but from where I sit it seems like a very solid decision for him. That doesn't necessarily mean that Purdue did anything wrong or isn't a strong/better option for other recruits.
Virginia is a great school. I've heard they have a very nice campus although I have never been there. They have a strong basketball program right now. They play in the ACC which is arguably the top basketball conference. The weather there will be better than here in Indiana and some kids are prone to try to get a little further away from home than stay close.
We don't know all the reasons and factors Guy chose Virginia but from where I sit it seems like a very solid decision for him. That doesn't necessarily mean that Purdue did anything wrong or isn't a strong/better option for other recruits.
the closest to Virginia in structure is Purdue. Purdue did all that and was only a little short in a person driving and kicking out,,,
I would agree that Virginia did have a couple seasons in which they excelled in the regular season only to flame out in the early rounds, but this past year, they were a late press meltdown against Syracuse from being in the Final Four. Also, Anderson left last year to the NBA and is contributing solidly in the playoffs with the Dallas Mavericks. If he was on this year's Virginia team, they would have been even better.
I'm a Purdue guy and have been watching Boilermaker ball for 30 years (I still remember when Bennett played for his dad (who was also an excellent coach) at Green Bay and they came into Mackey and beat a solid Purdue team). I think Bennett is a far better coach than Painter.
No worries. I do not take your post as argumentative.
Based on his output, I believe he has a better ability to produce more effective and efficient teams with what I consider roughly equivalent (perhaps worse) circumstances to Purdue in terms of recruiting base, facilities, tradition/success, etc. I think his teams play and execute better defense and offense than Painter's teams. I would put Virginia in the same category as us in the sense of being a middle to slightly above average team in a power conference. However, if you look historically through the 80s, 90s and early 2000s, you would argue Purdue had far greater success based on record and output - which one might argue - makes it harder to recruit to UVA (vs Purdue).
In the last 3 years, he has produced the best teams in the ACC - finishing first in 13-14 and 14-15 along with a 2nd place finish this year (1 game out of first to UNC). Winning 30 games in both 13-14 and 14-15 and 29 games this season and within a stones throw of the Final Four. Had he not lost Anderson to the NBA, who knows what they could have done. (btw, Anderson was a 4 star guard that is now a big contributor for an NBA Playoff team as a rookie). I personally find the ACC (Duke, UNC, Louisville, Notre Dame) to be better than the B1G - especially these last few seasons. To me, that is impressive. Other than his first 2 seasons at UVA (after taking over a dumpster fire) - so basically 5 seasons, he's finished 4th or higher in the ACC every year and only missed NCAA once (when they should have made it as a 23-13, 11-7 team). Mind you this is a program that had finished 4th or higher 5 times since 1990 (4th - three times, 3rd - once, 1st - once) and their 3rd place finish was with a 9-7 conf record and was an NIT team). So, it's kind of a Bo Ryan type of success thus far ... and if you recall, it was Tony's father Dick that started the turnaround at Wisc prior to Ryan taking over - leading them to a Final Four (against Keady ironically) after many years of mediocrity. So, basketball runs in this family (many years at Wisc Green Bay) and Tony was a good player himself ... even having a brief stay in the NBA himself ... impressive if you consider his natural potential wasn't that high.
He does it with defense as his team has the following rankings (national) in KenPom adjusted D:
2014 - 4th (21st ranked Offense)
2015 - 1st (24th ranked Offense)
2016 - 5th (9th ranked Offense)
I also think Virginia is a difficult place to recruit (more difficult than Purdue). Virginia doesn't produce a lot of good high school players. If you look at his roster, he gets 1 local state player and has to recruit up and down the east coast competing with national powers (Duke, UNC, UCONN, Maryland, etc). If you look at his recruits rankings, they are usually less heralded than our recruits. He doesn't have a lot of pros (less than Purdue) but his teams still produce and his players get a lot better. Now he is turning this success into better recruits with a Top 10 recruiting class this fall including Indiana's own Kyle Guy. A McD All American. A PG/SG. We always complain that we compete with IU, Michigan State, Michigan, Ohio State for local Indiana kids, well this guy competed against all those schools and us and was able to secure one of our state's best talents - at a position we desperately need.
If you look at his 3 year run at Washington State (a perennial loser in the PAC-10), he took them to the NCAA twice (Sweet Sixteen once) and won 26 games twice - which is their school record for wins. Washington State is the PAC12 equivalent to Penn State in basketball. Since he's left, they've gone right back into the cellar.
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Also, out of curiosity, I wanted to see how he fared against those top ACC teams (Duke, UNC, Notre Dame, Louisville) the last 3 years and it was pretty impressive:
2014: 4-1 (4pt loss @ Cameron)
2015: 3-3 (all losses close: 2pt to Louisville on road, 4pt to UNC on road, 6pt to Duke)
2016: 3-2 (4pt loss to UNC, 1pt loss @ Cameron)
Total: 10-6
All losses within 6 points and most of these were on the road.
Also, pretty impressive when you consider Duke has the One and Dones, UNC players don't go to class, and Louisville players' scholarships include an education, room/board and women.
2014: 4-1 (4pt loss @ Cameron)
2015: 3-3 (all losses close: 2pt to Louisville on road, 4pt to UNC on road, 6pt to Duke)
2016: 3-2 (4pt loss to UNC, 1pt loss @ Cameron)
Total: 10-6
All losses within 6 points and most of these were on the road.
Also, pretty impressive when you consider Duke has the One and Dones, UNC players don't go to class, and Louisville players' scholarships include an education, room/board and women.
Spot on. UVA has phenomenal academics, a very good basketball program, a great campus, and a coach who is viewed highly by most, and appears to be a likable guy.
The major disagreement I would have with your assessment is that Virginia does produce a lot of elite talent. From Moses Malone, Dell Curry, Ralph Sampson, Mark West, Alonzo Mourning, & Tommy Amaker to Bryant Stith, Allen Iverson, Grant Hill, Joe Smith, J R Reid, and J J Reddick, there is a lot of basketball talent in Virginia. There is also a lot of talent immediately below that level. However, with Georgetown and Maryland practically on the northern border and Duke, UNC, N C State, & Wake Forest just a few miles from the southern border, no one has ever truly 'owned' the state with respects to recruiting, although Dean Smith came precariously close to doing so. Add to all this the fact that not every player that the Commonwealth produces is a good fit at UVa. Qualifying per the NCAA isn't as much an issue as convincing the admissions people that a prospect has the academic tools to compete in the classroom. While all majors are not created equal, Virginia still doesn't have any really 'jock' friendly academic programs. (This was one of the problems Al Groh had as football coach. He got too many players admitted who couldn't maintain their eligibility.)
Everyone is forgetting one Jeff Daniels from Perry Meridian who played at Virginia in the mid to late 80's. In high school he teamed with another player (last name Montgomery) to lead the Falcons to the Hinkle semi-state championship game and made the Indiana All-Star team. Daniels played all 4 years at UVA, had a nice career.
Jeff Daniel
He redshirted in '86-'87 so he played in '85-'86, '87-'88, '88-'89 and '89-'90.
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