It's this time of year!

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A good man to man has many principles of a zone, where players have to help out or cover when they see Edey having to protect the basket. If we have slow footed defenders, you will see a lot more of it - helping out other defenders. And it appears even more with our guard play this year. It will look like we are playing zone.

YOu are talking about guard play you haven't seen. None of us have a clue on anything yet.. We just can't know until we see some action on the court.
 

tjreese

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A boat got sunk too, TJ. :D
My ole gut was sensing the MO change in the 2nd quarter and Purdue kept shooting itself in the foot with bad penalties. BTW I wonder if it is physically possible to be running and stumbling foward with enough weight on one leg that when the other is horizontal that although the leg touched the knee didn't???? ;) That one went Purdue's way...but I wonder if the verdict the other way is physically possible under those conditions?
 

mediaexpert

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YOu are talking about guard play you haven't seen. None of us have a clue on anything yet.. We just can't know until we see some action on the court.
An odd comment about my analysis. As you said, none of us have seen any action on the court and then again even watching on TV it it is hard to gage speed until you see the speed against a variety of players or teams.

However, from what I have read and observed last year, defensively we will be doing a lot of switching which will look like a zone. Then again, even from my observation watching Gillis and Morton last year on TV, I am not sure if either have the foot speed to play the 3 and the 1 respectively . I would like to think so, but the "experts" are all saying Gillis is only a 4 and Morton cannot guard a 1.

Therefore I am giving my opinion based on what I am reading. But you are right, I would feel more confident, if I was 40 years younger and playing a game with them.
 

Purdue Grad in Texas

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My ole gut was sensing the MO change in the 2nd quarter and Purdue kept shooting itself in the foot with bad penalties. BTW I wonder if it is physically possible to be running and stumbling foward with enough weight on one leg that when the other is horizontal that although the leg touched the knee didn't???? ;) That one went Purdue's way...but I wonder if the verdict the other way is physically possible under those conditions?

Interesting question, TJ.....I suppose there may be some positions and angles where that could physically occur and not violate the laws of physics.....have to throw that one to Scotty.

star-trek-star-trek-tos.gif
 

mathboy

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An odd comment about my analysis. As you said, none of us have seen any action on the court and then again even watching on TV it it is hard to gage speed until you see the speed against a variety of players or teams.

However, from what I have read and observed last year, defensively we will be doing a lot of switching which will look like a zone. Then again, even from my observation watching Gillis and Morton last year on TV, I am not sure if either have the foot speed to play the 3 and the 1 respectively . I would like to think so, but the "experts" are all saying Gillis is only a 4 and Morton cannot guard a 1.

Therefore I am giving my opinion based on what I am reading. But you are right, I would feel more confident, if I was 40 years younger and playing a game with them.
I think many of those "experts" you defer to, are just the yahoo's on here that haven't a clue. They do spout lots of authoritative opinions that are strongly backed by zero evidence and little if any basketball knowledge. So be cautious.

I have not read any opinions from real experts that mirror those sentiments. Doesn't mean these statements are wrong. I just haven't seen anyone whose opinion I consider 'accurate' say these things. Let me know if you have stubbled across any real (commercial press types) that have identified those specific weaknesses.

IMHO (not an "expert") Gillis has a knack for being in the right place at the right time defensively and offensively, and is a considerable athlete with good quickness and good anticipation. Morton does seem a bit foot slow, but we may be looking at his efforts verses world class speed. He may be just fast enough to provide sufficient defensive pressure on the opponents #1 to do the job. Also, just because he plays the PG doesn't mean he guards the opponent's PG.

:cool:
 

mediaexpert

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I think many of those "experts" you defer to, are just the yahoo's on here that haven't a clue. They do spout lots of authoritative opinions that are strongly backed by zero evidence and little if any basketball knowledge. So be cautious.

I have not read any opinions from real experts that mirror those sentiments. Doesn't mean these statements are wrong. I just haven't seen anyone whose opinion I consider 'accurate' say these things. Let me know if you have stubbled across any real (commercial press types) that have identified those specific weaknesses.

IMHO (not an "expert") Gillis has a knack for being in the right place at the right time defensively and offensively, and is a considerable athlete with good quickness and good anticipation. Morton does seem a bit foot slow, but we may be looking at his efforts verses world class speed. He may be just fast enough to provide sufficient defensive pressure on the opponents #1 to do the job. Also, just because he plays the PG doesn't mean he guards the opponent's PG.

:cool:
The post the other poster commented on was my point that our defensive foot speed at the 1 through 3 seems to be lacking. Therefore, we are going to be much more help d and switching to the point that it will look like a zone. Again, this is my assumption since I haven't played with these guys or seen them in action this year. So yes, Morton can play the 1 O, but IMO his foot speed is too slow for D without a lot of help D.

I have read where we have 3 very good players (not including Morton) vying for 40 minutes at the 4. I have yet to see anyone suggest Gillis at the 3. I agree with what you wrote about him, so why hasn't anyone suggested Gillis splitting time at the 3? I agree offensively he has the qualifications to play the 3 just like Morton has them to play the 1. And then again there will be opp in place where they will be needed - ie their 1 is too over powering and is coming inside. Their 3 is not a scorer and Gillis can lend more help to others.

Our weakness IMO is foot speed on D and that is why Zach looms so big for us on both D and O.
 
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northside100

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The post the other poster commented on was my point that our defensive foot speed at the 1 through 3 seems to be lacking. Therefore, we are going to be much more help d and switching to the point that it will look like a zone. Again, this is my assumption since I haven't played with these guys or seen them in action this year. So yes, Morton can play the 1 O, but IMO his foot speed is too slow for D without a lot of help D.

I have read where we have 3 very good players (not including Morton) vying for 40 minutes at the 4. I have yet to see anyone suggest Gillis at the 3. I agree with what you wrote about him, so why hasn't anyone suggested Gillis splitting time at the 3? I agree offensively he has the qualifications to play the 3 just like Morton has them to play the 1. And then again there will be opp in place where they will be needed - ie their 1 is too over powering and is coming inside. Their 3 is not a scorer and Gillis can lend more help to others.

Our weakness IMO is foot speed on D and that is why Zach looms so big for us on both D and O.
I have seen nothing from Painter or GBI indicating that Gillis (or TKR) are an option at the three this year. Brian is not infallible, but he's indicated that Gillis is not an option at the 3 because it would put him in a bad spot defensively. Gillis will play the four, Edey the five and Furst and TKR will play both. No one in that group will play material minutes outside of the four and five.

I don't think Newman or Morton lack foot speed at the two and three. I agree that they'll struggle with quicker point guards. If Smith can't stay in front of that type of PG it's going to be a problem all season.
 
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samcboiler

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Whom will be the two that work themselves out of the 8-man rotation? And YES, I am excited that we have ten who at this time appear to be very worthy of playing! there are ten in bold below .... which two don't remain in the rotation?


1 – Jenkins - Smith

2 – Waddell – Loyer – Newman

3 – Morton – TKR -

4 – Gillis – Furst – Heide

5 – Edey - Furst
Waddell and Heide. If Newman is the odd man out for any reason other than injury, I will stop watching. We have to let him figure it out on the court. Last year watching him on the bench 90% of the year really upset me. Sure Ivey was better but you can't sit a guy with the kind talent for games at a time. I give him so much credit for not transferring. 95% of today's players would have left. Go BN and the Boilers !!!!
 

northside100

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Hmmm...If I can only pick 8

5 - Edey/Furst/TKR
4 - TKR/Furst/Morty
3 - Morty/TKR/Fletch/Jenkins/Newman
2 - Newman/Fletch/Jenkins
1 - Jenkins/Smith/Morty/Fletch

Gillis, Waddell, Heide, and Berg are left looking in if it indeed winds up to be an 8 man rotation.

Gillis will be the controversial cut here, but hear me out. I do think he will play, just not as much as the last 2 years. He'll be a tone setter when needed and a steady veteran to turn to on the road or tougher games if coach needs someone to do the simple things that win a game. That being said if TKR and Furst are who we all think they are, there is no reason both won't nudge Mason out of the rotation. They are both more talented guys who do everything that Mason can do (rebound, hit open 3, garbage putbacks). I love Mason's contributions, but I think this team needs someone who can get a bucket more than a glue guy and TKR or Furst will hopefully fit that bill and finish the season as the starting 4 man.
Understand the rationale but I’d lay heavy odds that Mason plays at least 15 mpg. Assuming Zach plays 25 mpg, that leaves 55 a game at the 4 and 5 between Furst, TKR and Gillis. Very optimistic to think that Furst and TKR will be so good that they’re going to need 25 and 30 mpg respectively when Mason is likely the best compliment to Edey at the 4.
 
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Waddell and Heide. If Newman is the odd man out for any reason other than injury, I will stop watching. We have to let him figure it out on the court. Last year watching him on the bench 90% of the year really upset me. Sure Ivey was better but you can't sit a guy with the kind talent for games at a time. I give him so much credit for not transferring. 95% of today's players would have left. Go BN and the Boilers !!!!


I agree with these comments a lot. I did say at times, I know I don't realize everything that goes on and to why Newman didn't play much, but it was so aggravating watching some players get to play through their mistakes and others weren't allowed much at all. I don't wanna hear from anybody that our senior was taking better shots either. That was not the case at all. I just wish we would of been given some info. It was difficult watching Newman on the bench most of the year.
 
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The post the other poster commented on was my point that our defensive foot speed at the 1 through 3 seems to be lacking. Therefore, we are going to be much more help d and switching to the point that it will look like a zone. Again, this is my assumption since I haven't played with these guys or seen them in action this year. So yes, Morton can play the 1 O, but IMO his foot speed is too slow for D without a lot of help D.

I have read where we have 3 very good players (not including Morton) vying for 40 minutes at the 4. I have yet to see anyone suggest Gillis at the 3. I agree with what you wrote about him, so why hasn't anyone suggested Gillis splitting time at the 3? I agree offensively he has the qualifications to play the 3 just like Morton has them to play the 1. And then again there will be opp in place where they will be needed - ie their 1 is too over powering and is coming inside. Their 3 is not a scorer and Gillis can lend more help to others.

Our weakness IMO is foot speed on D and that is why Zach looms so big for us on both D and O.

I didn't think Morton was that slow, but maybe I need to watch some more footage of him .Anyway, he has pretty quick hands and for the minutes he played, he would get a few steals per game if my memory serves right.
 

mediaexpert

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I have seen nothing from Painter or GBI indicating that Gillis (or TKR) are an option at the three this year. Brian is not infallible, but he's indicated that Gillis is not an option at the 3 because it would put him in a bad spot defensively. Gillis will play the four, Edey the five and Furst and TKR will play both. No one in that group will play material minutes outside of the four and five.

I don't think Newman or Morton lack foot speed at the two and three. I agree that they'll struggle with quicker point guards. If Smith can't stay in front of that type of PG it's going to be a problem all season.
Yes, and this is why we agree with samcboiler that Newman and Morton play 45-50 minutes per game. We are set at the 4. we need Edey to be solid at both ends of the floor at the 5 with Furst giving the opp a different look for bursts at the 5, and we need Jenkins and Smith to pack it in against quicker guards.

I guess my prediction has more to do with when I watched Haas. I thought Haas guarded the basket very well and for some reason he was more imposing than Zach inside, where the opps driver many times would either not shoot or put up a crazy shot when going to the basket. However, on kickouts, Haas would get burned by his man if he could shoot from at least 15. IMO, Matt will this year then go to almost a match up zone where our D will pick up Haas' man and others will do likewise. I therefore think Matt will have a lot more switching at the other spots rather than fighting through picks. This is a wrinkle effect adjusting to how other teams countered Haas.

I am also basing this on a twitter video where Smith beat his man and Edey can down to help and Smith kicked out to TKR who hit a wide open 15 footer. There was also a guy in the corner, but we were defending two guys on the other side of the court instead of having one guy slide over to get TKR.
 

northside100

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He seems quicker than when he came it, but the 3 would probably dictate a 4 and 5 that could go out and play 5 out. If the 4 and 5 would require D extended on him there would be enough space for him to drive IMO. However, I'm not sure I see that in his time at Purdue most likely. I do see and wish to see him and Caleb playing like two 4's at times this year
I would be shocked if TKR plays significant minutes at the 3 this year. We know he'll play the 4 and MP has already said that they want to play him some at the 5. In addition to defensive concerns at the 3, playing three positions is a big ask for a redshirt freshman.

For the same reason, I'd be surprised if the rotation doesn't go nine deep. You've got four guys who are going to play at the 4 and 5 and none of those guys seems likely to take minutes at the 3. That means in order to only go eight deep overall you're only playing four guys total at the 1 through 3. Doesn't seem likely. Barring injuries it sounds like Morton, Newman, Smith, Loyer and Jenkins are a lock to play. Waddell could come in and take some of those minutes as he rounds back into form as the season goes on. Seems likely that Heide and Berg redshirt, which would be good for both.
 

tjreese

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I would be shocked if TKR plays significant minutes at the 3 this year. We know he'll play the 4 and MP has already said that they want to play him some at the 5. In addition to defensive concerns at the 3, playing three positions is a big ask for a redshirt freshman.

For the same reason, I'd be surprised if the rotation doesn't go nine deep. You've got four guys who are going to play at the 4 and 5 and none of those guys seems likely to take minutes at the 3. That means in order to only go eight deep overall you're only playing four guys total at the 1 through 3. Doesn't seem likely. Barring injuries it sounds like Morton, Newman, Smith, Loyer and Jenkins are a lock to play. Waddell could come in and take some of those minutes as he rounds back into form as the season goes on. Seems likely that Heide and Berg redshirt, which would be good for both.
what I mentioned was a particular 4 and 5 behind the arc and if that were the case and not sure it is, your 4&5 would join the 1-3 with all behind the arc. In the scenario I responded to another...yes you could call Trey a 3 or any number you like because that three could play the perimeter or go to the blocks. Significant minutes? NO. Any minutes? Possibly, but probably not at least this year. Could you imagine the 3 defender on Purdue 3, 4 or 5 (three players comfortable on the perimeter and on the blocks) whatever you want to call the numbers seeing that mismatch and going to the blocks?
 

northside100

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what I mentioned was a particular 4 and 5 behind the arc and if that were the case and not sure it is, your 4&5 would join the 1-3 with all behind the arc. In the scenario I responded to another...yes you could call Trey a 3 or any number you like because that three could play the perimeter or go to the blocks. Significant minutes? NO. Any minutes? Possibly, but probably not at least this year. Could you imagine the 3 defender on Purdue 3, 4 or 5 (three players comfortable on the perimeter and on the blocks) whatever you want to call the numbers seeing that mismatch and going to the blocks?
It's not a bad idea on paper, I just don't see it happening this year. Particularly given that MP has always been more willing to play guys in more of a stretch position than to go 'big'.
 

Do Dah Day

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I would be shocked if TKR plays significant minutes at the 3 this year. We know he'll play the 4 and MP has already said that they want to play him some at the 5. In addition to defensive concerns at the 3, playing three positions is a big ask for a redshirt freshman.

For the same reason, I'd be surprised if the rotation doesn't go nine deep. You've got four guys who are going to play at the 4 and 5 and none of those guys seems likely to take minutes at the 3. That means in order to only go eight deep overall you're only playing four guys total at the 1 through 3. Doesn't seem likely. Barring injuries it sounds like Morton, Newman, Smith, Loyer and Jenkins are a lock to play. Waddell could come in and take some of those minutes as he rounds back into form as the season goes on. Seems likely that Heide and Berg redshirt, which would be good for both.
KaBingo
 

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