It's this time of year!

Do Dah Day

All-American
Gold Member
Nov 8, 2015
7,495
9,490
113
Whom will be the two that work themselves out of the 8-man rotation? And YES, I am excited that we have ten who at this time appear to be very worthy of playing! there are ten in bold below .... which two don't remain in the rotation?


1 – Jenkins - Smith

2 – Waddell – Loyer – Newman

3 – Morton – TKR -

4 – Gillis – Furst – Heide

5 – Edey - Furst
 

tjreese

All-American
Gold Member
Sep 27, 2008
20,530
17,497
113
Whom will be the two that work themselves out of the 8-man rotation? And YES, I am excited that we have ten who at this time appear to be very worthy of playing! there are ten in bold below .... which two don't remain in the rotation?


1 – Jenkins - Smith

2 – Waddell – Loyer – Newman

3 – Morton – TKR -

4 – Gillis – Furst – Heide

5 – Edey - Furst
not having seeing them...it is hard and don't have an idea. I do think that Brian Waddell coming around slowly in his rehab put him behind...and we hear so little about Heide that may be a huge surprise...I just don't know. I just really think I'm going to enjoy this team.
 

Do Dah Day

All-American
Gold Member
Nov 8, 2015
7,495
9,490
113
not having seeing them...it is hard and don't have an idea. I do think that Brian Waddell coming around slowly in his rehab put him behind...and we hear so little about Heide that may be a huge surprise...I just don't know. I just really think I'm going to enjoy this team.
I agree, Win or Lose, I think this team will be enjoyable entertainment. I think Heide is not in the mix ... but geesh, who else isn't? It may take until January (not a surprise) to discover the answer!
 

Do Dah Day

All-American
Gold Member
Nov 8, 2015
7,495
9,490
113
not having seeing them...it is hard and don't have an idea. I do think that Brian Waddell coming around slowly in his rehab put him behind...and we hear so little about Heide that may be a huge surprise...I just don't know. I just really think I'm going to enjoy this team.
IMHO, it's Waddell and Newman!!!!!
 

tjreese

All-American
Gold Member
Sep 27, 2008
20,530
17,497
113
I agree, Win or Lose, I think this team will be enjoyable entertainment. I think Heide is not in the mix ... but geesh, who else isn't? It may take until January (not a surprise) to discover the answer!
I think by January this team will be pretty solid. I don't think we will see any brain dead moments like last year. Matt has slowly increased his skill AND athleticism and doing so with good kids. Just listening to them speak with some clarity tells you there is intelligence overall in the team. I expect this to be a TEAM absent egos with good skill, good athleticism and good effort leading to results better than good...perhaps very good towards the end of the year particularly for the amount of youth playing.
 

Do Dah Day

All-American
Gold Member
Nov 8, 2015
7,495
9,490
113
I think by January this team will be pretty solid. I don't think we will see any brain dead moments like last year. Matt has slowly increased his skill AND athleticism and doing so with good kids. Just listening to them speak with some clarity tells you there is intelligence overall in the team. I expect this to be a TEAM absent egos with good skill, good athleticism and good effort leading to results better than good...perhaps very good towards the end of the year particularly for the amount of youth playing.
You did a great job of avoiding the highly triggering "basketball IQ" words!!!
 

GemstateBoiler

All-American
Gold Member
Jul 17, 2006
5,781
3,114
113
Whom will be the two that work themselves out of the 8-man rotation? And YES, I am excited that we have ten who at this time appear to be very worthy of playing! there are ten in bold below .... which two don't remain in the rotation?


1 – Jenkins - Smith

2 – Waddell – Loyer – Newman

3 – Morton – TKR -

4 – Gillis – Furst – Heide

5 – Edey - Furst
Is Berg redshirting?
 

Do Dah Day

All-American
Gold Member
Nov 8, 2015
7,495
9,490
113
I can understand Newman, but think the early role in more minutes elevates him a bit and then again...I don't know where Heide is. I hope Newman is rewarded with great play for not running away from adversity and becomes a point of reference for others in the future
I totally HOPE SO too, he deserves all the hope we can give him .... but, will he respond?
 
  • Like
Reactions: DAG10 and tjreese

Roeder

Junior
Jun 21, 2007
2,126
2,862
113
Hmmm...If I can only pick 8

5 - Edey/Furst/TKR
4 - TKR/Furst/Morty
3 - Morty/TKR/Fletch/Jenkins/Newman
2 - Newman/Fletch/Jenkins
1 - Jenkins/Smith/Morty/Fletch

Gillis, Waddell, Heide, and Berg are left looking in if it indeed winds up to be an 8 man rotation.

Gillis will be the controversial cut here, but hear me out. I do think he will play, just not as much as the last 2 years. He'll be a tone setter when needed and a steady veteran to turn to on the road or tougher games if coach needs someone to do the simple things that win a game. That being said if TKR and Furst are who we all think they are, there is no reason both won't nudge Mason out of the rotation. They are both more talented guys who do everything that Mason can do (rebound, hit open 3, garbage putbacks). I love Mason's contributions, but I think this team needs someone who can get a bucket more than a glue guy and TKR or Furst will hopefully fit that bill and finish the season as the starting 4 man.
 

Do Dah Day

All-American
Gold Member
Nov 8, 2015
7,495
9,490
113
Hmmm...If I can only pick 8

5 - Edey/Furst/TKR
4 - TKR/Furst/Morty
3 - Morty/TKR/Fletch/Jenkins/Newman
2 - Newman/Fletch/Jenkins
1 - Jenkins/Smith/Morty/Fletch

Gillis, Waddell, Heide, and Berg are left looking in if it indeed winds up to be an 8 man rotation.

Gillis will be the controversial cut here, but hear me out. I do think he will play, just not as much as the last 2 years. He'll be a tone setter when needed and a steady veteran to turn to on the road or tougher games if coach needs someone to do the simple things that win a game. That being said if TKR and Furst are who we all think they are, there is no reason both won't nudge Mason out of the rotation. They are both more talented guys who do everything that Mason can do (rebound, hit open 3, garbage putbacks). I love Mason's contributions, but I think this team needs someone who can get a bucket more than a glue guy and TKR or Furst will hopefully fit that bill and finish the season as the starting 4 man.
Great post!!!!
 

tjreese

All-American
Gold Member
Sep 27, 2008
20,530
17,497
113
Hmmm...If I can only pick 8

5 - Edey/Furst/TKR
4 - TKR/Furst/Morty
3 - Morty/TKR/Fletch/Jenkins/Newman
2 - Newman/Fletch/Jenkins
1 - Jenkins/Smith/Morty/Fletch

Gillis, Waddell, Heide, and Berg are left looking in if it indeed winds up to be an 8 man rotation.

Gillis will be the controversial cut here, but hear me out. I do think he will play, just not as much as the last 2 years. He'll be a tone setter when needed and a steady veteran to turn to on the road or tougher games if coach needs someone to do the simple things that win a game. That being said if TKR and Furst are who we all think they are, there is no reason both won't nudge Mason out of the rotation. They are both more talented guys who do everything that Mason can do (rebound, hit open 3, garbage putbacks). I love Mason's contributions, but I think this team needs someone who can get a bucket more than a glue guy and TKR or Furst will hopefully fit that bill and finish the season as the starting 4 man.
I understand what you said and the reasoning behind it. I just don't have an idea who excels inside the team needed or if scoring is needed as much as you think out of that position. You may be right...I just don't know. Towards teh end of last year Purdue started trying to use Mason's shooting more by bringing him off screens instead of just catch and shoot. His percentage went down as expected, but the mere fact Purdue was doing it told me the transition in expectation. All three are solid players, but Mason also has more experience. I just don't know since I'm unsure of the skillset mesh...
 

Do Dah Day

All-American
Gold Member
Nov 8, 2015
7,495
9,490
113
I understand what you said and the reasoning behind it. I just don't have an idea who excels inside the team needed or if scoring is needed as much as you think out of that position. You may be right...I just don't know. Towards teh end of last year Purdue started trying to use Mason's shooting more by bringing him off screens instead of just catch and shoot. His percentage went down as expected, but the mere fact Purdue was doing it told me the transition in expectation. All three are solid players, but Mason also has more experience. I just don't know since I'm unsure of the skillset mesh...
WISDOM!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zaphod_B

KentuckyBoiler

All-American
Jul 6, 2011
12,510
17,502
113
Whom will be the two that work themselves out of the 8-man rotation? And YES, I am excited that we have ten who at this time appear to be very worthy of playing! there are ten in bold below .... which two don't remain in the rotation?


1 – Jenkins - Smith

2 – Waddell – Loyer – Newman

3 – Morton – TKR -

4 – Gillis – Furst – Heide

5 – Edey - Furst
Not sure about the 2 yet.

However, I will say that I am very excited to see what Trey can do for us this year. It will be nice to have athletic wing player of his size.
 

johnboiler123

True Freshman
Jul 23, 2020
664
866
93
Really tough to know who will start this year with our team having so many unknowns. Going to have to see who can separate themselves from the rest.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zaphod_B

DAG10

All-American
Nov 2, 2018
5,709
8,492
113
Whom will be the two that work themselves out of the 8-man rotation? And YES, I am excited that we have ten who at this time appear to be very worthy of playing! there are ten in bold below .... which two don't remain in the rotation?


1 – Jenkins - Smith

2 – Waddell – Loyer – Newman

3 – Morton – TKR -

4 – Gillis – Furst – Heide

5 – Edey - Furst
Waddell is not a 2...more a 3...and, would not see him ahead of either guy at the 2 anyway. He could get minutes at the 3 possibly, but, he is behind both of the other guys there...and, TKR will get minutes at the 4, ahead of Heide.

Of the 10 that you highlighted...Waddell likely is not part of an 8-man rotation, and, my next guess is much tougher...probably Loyer, just due to inexperience...but, if he plays well enough early, I can see it more likely to be a 9-man rotation opposed to forcing an 8-man one, regardless of who that 9th guy might be.
 

Esox54547

True Freshman
Aug 26, 2017
842
1,637
93
I think it will be a 9 man rotation. At least for the non-conference portion. I don't see how you bench Gillis and this team will need Newman's A game to be successful. I think Painter will do all he can to get his confidence back. My guess for early playing time.

5: Edey 25 minutes, Furst 15 minutes
4: Gillis 20 minutes, Furst 10 minues, TKR 10 minutes
3: Morton 20 minutes, Newman 10 minutes, TKR 10 minutes
2: Loyer 20, Newman 15, Jenkins 5
1: Smith 20 minutes, Jenkins 20 minutes
 

02Boilermaker

Redshirt Freshman
Nov 16, 2012
1,121
2,376
113
...Matt has slowly increased his skill AND athleticism and doing so with good kids...

Matt has shown the ability to utilize a given player's plus-level skill and fit it into the overall team's production. With what appears to be a team of "good kids," I expect the players to accept their roles. Therefore I expect Painter to be able to get production out of every player on this team, and I expect him to be able to fit them together into a winning product. The question to me right now is: who are the guys who can be "special" and take this from a winning team to a contending team. Who can make winning plays when the opposition is able to get us "out-of-system." How many players have more widely defined roles as opposed to roles where they're only asked to do 1 or maybe 2 things.

Edey definitely fits the bill: an All-American level producer just playing his more focused, "in-system" role which really is unique and incredible, and it will win games all by itself. TKR and/or Furst and/or Newman appear to be the other best bets to be "special." If one of those guys can be a 30 mpg, "you can't take me off the court" player, that dictates so many things to the rest of the lineup.
 

02Boilermaker

Redshirt Freshman
Nov 16, 2012
1,121
2,376
113
...I don't think we will see any brain dead moments like last year...

I agree with this, and I think that's the main thing that separated our team last year from an Izzo Final 4 team: on-the-court leadership. There didn't appear to be a Cleaves or Valentine or Winston on Purdue last season. This might be totally unfair as it's an assessment from the outside. However, there didn't appear to be anyone on the floor that held the rest of the team accountable. Our stars that are in NBA training camps this year were great, amazing players for us. I loved those guys and they provided so much joy, but from the outside (which might be totally unfair), it seemed to be the one important area where they might not have been comfortable or All-American level. I'm okay with the interviews saying we have a lot of quiet kids this year, but we absolutely need to have a couple on-the-court vocal leaders. I do think we might have them.

I remember Mason teaching on the court a couple times last season, and he seems to be a guy that could easily demand more based just on his effort & example alone. I've said on here a couple of times how impressed I was that Morton was the clear leader of that Team USA 3x3 team even though he was probably the 4th scoring option. Furst seems like a natural leader...is it just a keep the team loose leadership (which is important all by itself) or can it be a demand more from your teammates type leadership? I think this is the one intangible that can be an upgrade this season.
 

tjreese

All-American
Gold Member
Sep 27, 2008
20,530
17,497
113
Matt has shown the ability to utilize a given player's plus-level skill and fit it into the overall team's production. With what appears to be a team of "good kids," I expect the players to accept their roles. Therefore I expect Painter to be able to get production out of every player on this team, and I expect him to be able to fit them together into a winning product. The question to me right now is: who are the guys who can be "special" and take this from a winning team to a contending team. Who can make winning plays when the opposition is able to get us "out-of-system." How many players have more widely defined roles as opposed to roles where they're only asked to do 1 or maybe 2 things.

Edey definitely fits the bill: an All-American level producer just playing his more focused, "in-system" role which really is unique and incredible, and it will win games all by itself. TKR and/or Furst and/or Newman appear to be the other best bets to be "special." If one of those guys can be a 30 mpg, "you can't take me off the court" player, that dictates so many things to the rest of the lineup.
For Purdue, I think the clock takes Purdue out-of-system more than a team. Since we have a clock, I think the best way to take Purdue out-of-system is an athletic team that plays pressure AND has a very slow whistle! Where it is hazier for me is whether that is in full, ¾ or half court. As of now (meaning early) I’m leaning to intense man pressure in the half court since Purdue will have a low post and any sets are liable to be more mechanical early in the season where a player passes to another player covered because he knew the ball was supposed to get there as opposed to just reading the next options. I just don’t think this team with some time is as vulnerable to pressure as some in the past.

I think this team has some good skill and athletic combinations and is more versatile than in the past and since there is more versatility, I think that opens more expansion for more players to do a bit more, but players should still play to their strengths (which will not be the same) and “possibly” defer to a better look. A lot of players can make winning plays depending on the situation. I’m curious if Caleb’s ball handling has improved and if so, he will be an interesting player for a winning play as will Braden if they lay off him to defend the others, but the one that may be the player versatile enough to drive the ball, shoot the ball and post up if needed is Trey. Therefore, I love new faces…watching them grow is an enjoyment for me
 
  • Like
Reactions: Do Dah Day

purduepat1969

All-American
Sep 28, 2011
13,818
19,865
113
Hmmm...If I can only pick 8

5 - Edey/Furst/TKR
4 - TKR/Furst/Morty
3 - Morty/TKR/Fletch/Jenkins/Newman
2 - Newman/Fletch/Jenkins
1 - Jenkins/Smith/Morty/Fletch

Gillis, Waddell, Heide, and Berg are left looking in if it indeed winds up to be an 8 man rotation.

Gillis will be the controversial cut here, but hear me out. I do think he will play, just not as much as the last 2 years. He'll be a tone setter when needed and a steady veteran to turn to on the road or tougher games if coach needs someone to do the simple things that win a game. That being said if TKR and Furst are who we all think they are, there is no reason both won't nudge Mason out of the rotation. They are both more talented guys who do everything that Mason can do (rebound, hit open 3, garbage putbacks). I love Mason's contributions, but I think this team needs someone who can get a bucket more than a glue guy and TKR or Furst will hopefully fit that bill and finish the season as the starting 4 man.

I get what you're saying. But I just don't think Gillis is gonna be outside that group. I think Painter values his rebounding and hustle. Now, what I will say is that if Furst takes a big step forward and TKR is as good as advertised, it will probably be difficult for Gillis to get as many minutes as he has been. And I think a lot also depends on what position TKR's minutes are focused. If it's at the 4, then Gillis likely has a problem. If Loyer and Waddell don't pan out that well their freshman year, then I think TKR spends more minutes at the 3 spot.
 

Do Dah Day

All-American
Gold Member
Nov 8, 2015
7,495
9,490
113
Waddell is not a 2...more a 3...and, would not see him ahead of either guy at the 2 anyway. He could get minutes at the 3 possibly, but, he is behind both of the other guys there...and, TKR will get minutes at the 4, ahead of Heide.

Of the 10 that you highlighted...Waddell likely is not part of an 8-man rotation, and, my next guess is much tougher...probably Loyer, just due to inexperience...but, if he plays well enough early, I can see it more likely to be a 9-man rotation opposed to forcing an 8-man one, regardless of who that 9th guy might be.
Thx. I always enjoy your analysis!
 
  • Like
Reactions: tjreese

Do Dah Day

All-American
Gold Member
Nov 8, 2015
7,495
9,490
113
I agree with this, and I think that's the main thing that separated our team last year from an Izzo Final 4 team: on-the-court leadership. There didn't appear to be a Cleaves or Valentine or Winston on Purdue last season. This might be totally unfair as it's an assessment from the outside. However, there didn't appear to be anyone on the floor that held the rest of the team accountable. Our stars that are in NBA training camps this year were great, amazing players for us. I loved those guys and they provided so much joy, but from the outside (which might be totally unfair), it seemed to be the one important area where they might not have been comfortable or All-American level. I'm okay with the interviews saying we have a lot of quiet kids this year, but we absolutely need to have a couple on-the-court vocal leaders. I do think we might have them.

I remember Mason teaching on the court a couple times last season, and he seems to be a guy that could easily demand more based just on his effort & example alone. I've said on here a couple of times how impressed I was that Morton was the clear leader of that Team USA 3x3 team even though he was probably the 4th scoring option. Furst seems like a natural leader...is it just a keep the team loose leadership (which is important all by itself) or can it be a demand more from your teammates type leadership? I think this is the one intangible that can be an upgrade this season.
Great comment! I totally agree and have felt that on several different years. As far as "who" this year, Smith is a frosh, but if the team knows they need a kick-ass leader, he may be a surprise. I agree with Morton being a candidate.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tjreese

mathboy

All-American
Feb 4, 2004
10,574
10,408
113
Michigan
For some weird reason I really like TRK at the 3 spot. I think it would create tremendous mismatches, if he has handles and lateral speed. I really don't know how the kid will play in college. His ceiling seemed pretty high when he came into the system.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Monk1014

tjreese

All-American
Gold Member
Sep 27, 2008
20,530
17,497
113
For some weird reason I really like TRK at the 3 spot. I think it would create tremendous mismatches, if he has handles and lateral speed. I really don't know how the kid will play in college. His ceiling seemed pretty high when he came into the system.
He seems quicker than when he came it, but the 3 would probably dictate a 4 and 5 that could go out and play 5 out. If the 4 and 5 would require D extended on him there would be enough space for him to drive IMO. However, I'm not sure I see that in his time at Purdue most likely. I do see and wish to see him and Caleb playing like two 4's at times this year
 

mediaexpert

True Freshman
Gold Member
Jan 19, 2007
635
1,056
93
117
Plano
I think it will be a 9 man rotation. At least for the non-conference portion. I don't see how you bench Gillis and this team will need Newman's A game to be successful. I think Painter will do all he can to get his confidence back. My guess for early playing time.

5: Edey 25 minutes, Furst 15 minutes
4: Gillis 20 minutes, Furst 10 minues, TKR 10 minutes
3: Morton 20 minutes, Newman 10 minutes, TKR 10 minutes
2: Loyer 20, Newman 15, Jenkins 5
1: Smith 20 minutes, Jenkins 20 minutes
This is pretty close, but I would have Morton with 5 at the 2 and not Jenkins. Edey, Furst, Morton, and Newman are our 4 stars. How they go will be how the team goes. Waddell and Heide sound like potential stars on next years club. From what I read Waddell would have been a star this year if not for his injury.. Our achilles heel is footspeed on D, so our man to man will come with a lot of help D, so it may look like a zone most of the time IMO.
 

Purdue Grad in Texas

All-American
Mar 22, 2010
26,933
35,968
113
***.. Our achilles heel is footspeed on D, so our man to man will come with a lot of help D, so it may look like a zone most of the time IMO.

Oh no.....now you've done it...... :)

giphy.gif
 
  • Haha
Reactions: TX4GB
Aug 27, 2018
349
539
93
I agree, Win or Lose, I think this team will be enjoyable entertainment. I think Heide is not in the mix ... but geesh, who else isn't? It may take until January (not a surprise) to discover the answer!
You might watch footage on him , if you haven't already.
 

mediaexpert

True Freshman
Gold Member
Jan 19, 2007
635
1,056
93
117
Plano
Oh no.....now you've done it...... :)

giphy.gif
A good man to man has many principles of a zone, where players have to help out or cover when they see Edey having to protect the basket. If we have slow footed defenders, you will see a lot more of it - helping out other defenders. And it appears even more with our guard play this year. It will look like we are playing zone.