.... in three years like IU does for so many? I am not trying to be a wiseass, but I do not recall another school doing it with such frequency. I get that in HS you may get college credits, but would that not be true of other institutions as well? Plus, are the BB players in all sorts of AP classes in HS? That would also surprise me. Exactly how is this done differently there than at other places?
Is their any other school nationally that graduates it players....
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Yep, not at all uncommon now with kids taking college classes in HS. My Grandson will go in about six hours short of a Soph. Education has become way too easy.
I'm right there with you. Both of my sons went into their 1st year of college with over 20 credit hours. I know not every HS is created equal, but their 20+ hours were not the same as on campus 20+ hours. I loved it from a $$ standpoint, but it wasn't the same demand as being on campus taking those classes.
I would think if you are at all interested in pursuing a degree, it should be easy to accomplish when you can stay on campus year around. You can get an extra semester or two worth of credits in your summers and if you have any credits coming with you from high school you would be well ahead of a four-year pace even if you were to take a lighter load in the spring semester.
College was seriously a lot of fun... why rush it? You can work the rest of your life.
Just curious. For those who graduate in 2.5 years or 3 years what do they do for their 4th or 5th year with a team? Do they not have to go to class at all or are you required to be taking courses at all times to remain eligible even if you have already graduated?
You probably have to qualify as a student so I'm sure you have to be enrolled in classes. What kind of classes probably varies to the goals of each athlete. Some might want to kick back and take bowling while some might want to get work in towards another degree.
You have to be pursuing a degree, but that can be a masters.
You most often see the masters/graduate studies come up for immediate transfers to another school, but a graduate student with remaining eligibility could compete for his alma mater as a graduate student.
Jess Settles was at Iowa so long that by the time his eligibility was over I think he was a full professor with tenure.
You must not have been in Purdue Engineering... Not so much fun... Don't regret it but definitely not what I'd call fun, fun, fun.... LOL.
As a teacher at a high school, I wouldn't say that education has become too easy...rather I would say that kids are able to take comparable classes to what they would be taking as a freshman in college. For example, as a sophomore in high school I took a speech class that was literally the exact same things as COM114 at Purdue. If a student can take a class for dual credit while in high school that speeds up their college experience, then great! I will say that it is a bit alarming that IU seems to do this more than what I would think would be normal in their basketball program. At the very least, it makes it appear a bit slimy...but they may have more online class offerings in their majors than others may be offered. That would speed up your process of graduation.
I was a computer science grad. My engineering friends definitely studied more than I did.
Strictly a guess...but I'm guessing the high school credit for Com 114 would be graded in the high school setting and more likely a "high school" expectation. Course we could say that all colleges are not equal and certainly all majors....and certainly all courses. I'm just reluctant to believe that the quantity of those getting credit were truly college worthy as a "general" statement...
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I am a college professor at the University of Tennessee at Martin, and I think you've hit on something very important, Dryfly.
This rush to get HS kids college credit is getting out of control in many states and is adversely affecting the quality of higher education.
AP credit is one thing. Students who get AP credit have really earned it by passing a rigorous exam that is externally-controlled. Some people don't like AP because they think that's a cash cow for The College Board. (I think each AP exam costs about $80.) But, there are also very high quality control standards in AP.
Now, many states are going "dual credit" courses that are taught by ordinary HS teachers who might or might not hold college teaching credentials (normally at least a masters degree w/18 graduate hours in the field). The students just take the class and a watered-down exam (that the state controls, not an external agency like AP) and get credit for in-state institutions. We are now seeing a lot of students come into college with "college credit" but who do not have the basic reading, mathematical, and logical reasoning skills needed to do well in junior and senior-level courses. It is very frustrating, but we have to accept these "credits" because we are a public university.
I can understand that parents want to minimize college costs --- especially in this era of dramatically declining public support for universities in most states. But, we're getting to the point where the system is so watered down that a college degree doesn't mean very much.
Computer Sci - awesome... I had a few of those classes and they were not easy. FYI, I'm out west and my Purdue degree is much more valuable that I ever thought it would be. Purdue is like Harvard / MIT / Stanford out here, especially Engineering...
That is why teachers who deal with dual credit classes are given dual credit teaching credentials from colleges and universities.
That is amazing...as though teaching Algebra is different. Sounds like a cash cow for ed schools. The expectation level is what would concern me and how being immersed wiht high school students might blur the expectations for college
How is a teacher, more than likely spending their own money, getting a credential to be certified by a college to teach a dual credit course a 'cash cow for ed schools'?
My school corporation has instigated their want for us to become able to be dual credit teachers in areas but will not pay us any more for that added certification...just that it would be beneficial to us in the future...and I teach in a district that is well off financially. Again, explain how a teacher paying their own way to become certified through a course that essentially gives them a masters in that area...a cash cow? Ridiculous.
No doubt that M.Ed (and MBA) programs are cash cows for many regional colleges and universities.
We have students at UTM who struggled to graduate with a 2.5 GPA, who then go on to fly through a M.Ed or MBA program with a 4.0. Regional universities such as UTM, that are often strapped for cash, all but sell these degrees knowing that school districts usually pick up the tab for the M.Eds, while companies often pay for the MBAs.
High school teachers who teach "dual enrollment" courses (i.e. the student is simultaneously enrolled in both a HS and a college course) really should have at least a masters degree with at least 18 graduate hours in the discipline (the most basic college teaching credential) and they should be teaching a college-level syllabus. But, many state legislatures have changed the standards by introducing in-house "dual credit" courses where the normal standards don't apply. HS teachers who teach these courses are often not required to hold any credentials beyond that of an ordinary HS teacher. In TN, we require students to pass an exam at the end of the course in order to get college credit, but it's not as rigorous as the AP exam. Legislatures can force public universities in their states to accept this "dual credit," but it's worthless anywhere else. So, the system is also designed to encourage more kids to enroll in in-state public colleges.
Now, not all AP teachers hold college teaching credentials, but AP credit is only given to students who pass the rigorous AP exam for that course. Simply taking an AP class does not equal college credit. Most AP teachers I've known through the years are very, very serious about the courses they teach.
IMHO: the bottom line for parents --- if your HS student has the chance to take courses for college credit, ask the school's administration if that credit can transfer to any college or university in the country (i.e. dual enrollment or AP), or if it is only good at in-state public universities. If it's the former, you're probably getting a solid course that approximates university-level work. If it's the latter, it might be a cheap knock-off.
**** I apologize if my posts in this thread sound preachy. This is just a topic that sticks in my craw because it seems to be part of a larger national trend of watering down and cheaping out public education. ****
Doesn't the college receive money for your class when algebra is algebra? What did the certification do ? Sorry for any typos...I'm on my phone with out my glasses.
Not at all and it is in fact very informative...in a better way than I could have done while just on my phone. I took the posts to be slightly personal attacks towards teachers, but looking at it differently I can see the posts were more geared toward the revenue stream and not the teachers (took the cash cows comment as thinking they believed teachers were teaching it to make extra money...which they don't).
I totally agree that there should be a divide between high school and college level classes with AP serving only as the in-between. The issue is that politicians have attempted to figure out how to make more money through the use of 'dual credit' and hiding it as a guise for making college more affordable for students..instead of just making college itself more affordable through scholarships or socialized higher education for those who qualify.
I believe it is in England that the last year of highschool is college coursework...but it may also be the thirteenth year as well....I can't remember
Dual Credit in HS plus double summer sessions that most colleges and universities have both add the number of early graduates. Having teams on campus for both sessions plus early HS graduations and spring enrollment by some football players also helps the raw numbers you speak of!
JohnnyDoeBoiler,
Having reread some of your posts after posting my last comment, I was worried that I insulted you as a teacher. That's not my intent. I was involved with AP for about 8 years, so I know it better than dual credit, which is still relatively new in TN. But, we are starting to work more with dual credit teachers, and I've found that most are conscientious about quality education. My field is history, so I always run into the "coach" type who is generally uninterested in educational quality, but most are concerned about quality.
My beef is really with the system that seems to be granting more college credit with less quality control. These days state governments (or, maybe I should say Tennessee because that's where I live and work) seem less interested in quality than in getting as many students college credit in HS as possible. My sense is intimately tied to the nation-wide trend of defunding public higher education, but that's a different rant for a different day.
AP certainly has its own problems. For example, the pass rate among HS students taking the world history AP exam (mostly 14 and 15 year olds) is only about 10%, but there's tremendous social pressure for these freshmen and sophomores to take AP classes. The thing that AP has going for it is the external quality control over its exams. They are rigorous. Students who get a 4 or 5 on an AP exam have really earned the credit.
Having many teachers in my family and having worked with K-12 social studies teachers, I certainly sympathize with your position. Teachers are under attack everywhere --- from parents, politicians, the public --- and they do a very important job for relatively modest pay. Most I've known have been very dedicated, as I'm sure you are.
