Is IU still elite?
- Thread starter bonefish1
- Start date
What defines elite? Overall record, getting mentioned in the national picture, NCAA tourney wins, final fours, what? Maybe it has to do with location? I hear it all the time that IU is elite, but I live with a bunch of delusional people in the state of Indiana. About the only thing they have more of than Purdue is NCAA championships. That said, I never hear anything about UCLA (well until they went to China, but lets just blame that on having a coach that played at IU)... but I'm pretty sure UCLA has a few more NCAA titles than IU does. Most kids don't care about history these days, so if a team isn't doing well within the last few years, does being "elite" in the past even matter?
I think the perception of the elite have shrunk to about 4 schools - Duke, MSU, UK and Kansas. and then you have your next tier of Villanova, Gonzaga, Purdue, UNC, Wich St, Louisville, Mich, IU, and Arizona.
next tier UCONN, Baylor, Butler, UW, Oregon, ND, UCLA, Oklahoma.
I'm not talking about current rankings. I'm talking about the casual basketball fan perspective. being called elite is very subjective. I believe regardless of ranking, if you ask the casual basketball fan to name their top twenty, those would be names that come to mind. I doubt NW or Minn is included in any casual basketball fan's top 40.
next tier UCONN, Baylor, Butler, UW, Oregon, ND, UCLA, Oklahoma.
I'm not talking about current rankings. I'm talking about the casual basketball fan perspective. being called elite is very subjective. I believe regardless of ranking, if you ask the casual basketball fan to name their top twenty, those would be names that come to mind. I doubt NW or Minn is included in any casual basketball fan's top 40.
They can still recruit pretty well, but the talent hasn't added up to a whole lot in recent years.
ESPN still treats them like royalty, but for all I know that could be a function of catering to the 40+ crowd for television ratings.
ESPN still treats them like royalty, but for all I know that could be a function of catering to the 40+ crowd for television ratings.
I think Parity in college basketball is so relevent these days that it is hard to be elite anymore. You can say as Wolegib did that it is Duke, MSU, UK and Kansas but MSU hasn't won a national title in 17 years. I think "elite" status is defined by how you do in the NCAA tournament. All of the other stuff is nice program wise but national wise it is tournament success. That is why I disagree with Wolegib. I would not put Purdue or IU in that second tier. IU hasn't really had any tourney success since 2002. Purdue hasn't had any since a lot longer then that. To put IU and Purdue in a tier with UNC who just won it all and has been in the last two title games I think is odd. Right now I would say UNC and Duke are in a class of their own with UNC on top with their success the last two years.
To answer the op's question, no Indiana is not currently elite. You have to earn that status and they have not done that for several years.
To answer the op's question, no Indiana is not currently elite. You have to earn that status and they have not done that for several years.
I would say the true blue bloods are still Duke, UNC, UK, Kansas. By name, but perhaps not results: Mich, MSU, UCLA, L'ville, Cuse, UConn, OSU.
Unfortunately, until Purdue has some sustained tourney success, it'll be considered a good program with some national name recognition but not a national player when it comes to Final Four consideration.
The premise Wole laid out was flawed as unc and MSU are reversed from what they should be. Fix that and the rest makes more sense. Tier two is kinda like four stars in recruiting, lots of spread in that data range.
Still? They haven't been for years, except in the minds of their fans. If you ask, "Is IU elite again?"... it's still a funny question.
I've never talked to anyone who has said Purdue is elite. I tell them I went to Purdue and half the time they don't know what state it is in, let alone could tell me anything about their sports teams - and are in disbelief when I start telling them how many AAs we have had, that John Wooden played here, or how many wins we have agains the other B1G schools. They ask me to name an athlete they might know and about the only one they know is Drew Brees and are normally shocked he went to Purdue.
I'll agree to flip UNC and MSU. or to add UNC to make 5 elite teams. I added MSU, because people always seem to want to include a BIG 10 team among the elite. And whether a team has won or not, people always seem to throw their name around.
the stuff about a team hasn't won in over 17 years bears no weight with me. growing up, everybody always talked about how great UNC was, and Dean Smith at that time had never won a championship. Eventually he did. but before he won a championship, UNC was still considered as an elite program.
I forgot about Cuse. they always seem to get mentioned regardless of what they do. .
Maybe I should take Purdue out altogether. Whether good or not, they never receive any respect from the fans or the media. Coach V gets more respect than Coach Keady.
Purdue always seems to be a good team in the top 20, but never considered as elite.
the stuff about a team hasn't won in over 17 years bears no weight with me. growing up, everybody always talked about how great UNC was, and Dean Smith at that time had never won a championship. Eventually he did. but before he won a championship, UNC was still considered as an elite program.
I forgot about Cuse. they always seem to get mentioned regardless of what they do. .
Maybe I should take Purdue out altogether. Whether good or not, they never receive any respect from the fans or the media. Coach V gets more respect than Coach Keady.
Purdue always seems to be a good team in the top 20, but never considered as elite.
They aren't but they could easily rise to the top of the big ten with a decent coach, they still have the roots and IU isn't the hardest sell. They still
Whoah UCONN has 4 titles is the last 20 years putting them below purdue is just dumb
Whoah UCONN has 4 titles is the last 20 years putting them below purdue is just dumb
Yeah, no way Purdue is in tier 2. I'd be ok with putting us in tier 3 though.
IU rivals site is an absolute meltdown over the first two games and Garland decision. Makes you value the consistent contribution (wins and culture) of our senior class so much. Boiler Up!
Great job, CMP!
Great job, CMP!
They’ve won their conference the last 13 years in a row. Sure it the Big 12, but’s thats still impressive.
They also have 3 NCAA championships, 6 runner ups, 14 final fours and the second most wins all time in men’s basketball. That’s elite to me. Given their streak of conference titles I’d say they are relavent in the minds of kids today.
Speaks more to the conference than KU. I'm biased by being older and seeing KU be nothing for ever. I have to question why the elite tag changes when it comes to KU...the only thing that matters is Nattys right. If it's conference titles Purdue is elite. And in a much tougher conference. Self leaves KU is just KU again. Coach K leaves Duke is just Duke. Knight leaves and IU is just...well you know the end of that story.
Elite status and having history are 2 different things IMO. Temple, Utah, BYU throw in W. Kentucky these programs have more or close to the same amount of victories as IU. I would say historically wise IU was great, but in today's elite status...no way! The kids aren't really concerned about the history of a program compared to where the program sits at the moment.
How do you see Kentucky then? Basketball in the SEC isn’t much better than the Big 12.
I think you're right. And to be honest Kansas streak is impressive but not sure why they have been vaulted into this elite status - seems the bar is typically NCAA titles and KU is behind IU and UConn and even with UL. They have one title since 88 and that was a decade ago. Like I said I grew up in a different era and KU was no big deal. One title before I was born. 2 more in the 57 years I've been alive.
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I'm not one to put that much weight on NCAA titles. I think Kansas is elite because I look at their recent history and see this:
http://collegepollarchive.com/mbask...ason.cfm?teamid=52&seasonid=2018#.Wgsu_miPJPY
I believe they have 5 national championships. Three were won with Knight as the coach. The last was in 1987 I believe, 30 years ago. Sampson and Crean tarnished what was once a blue blood program. Yes, they have had success, but over the past 30 years they are not on the same level as Duke, UNC and KY. Perhaps we can agree to disagree. I appreciate your perspective.
Let's correct this misstatement. The first 2-3 were NCAA wins before the NCAA was the premier tournament. Those are not national championships. They are only NCAA championships when the second and third place team went to that tournament. The Good teams went to the NIT or were crowned by consensus before the play offs existed.
I could not help it so I went over to Pegs today to watch the Garland recruiting thread. I wanted to see the utter shock in real time as it played out on the board. The thing that struck me is that they really believe they are among the elite of the elite. I almost felt sorry for them and their mindset.
Purdue had a great if not elite football program for a good long while back in the 60's 70's but I don's see anyone over here hanging onto that and trying to convince ourselves we are neck in neck with Alabama.
Its not wonder I have a hard time having a conversation with anyone who is a fan.
Purdue had a great if not elite football program for a good long while back in the 60's 70's but I don's see anyone over here hanging onto that and trying to convince ourselves we are neck in neck with Alabama.
Its not wonder I have a hard time having a conversation with anyone who is a fan.
Nice reference! What I meant was that just like Norma, the former big star has become a has-been, but has not come to the realization that evolution has occurred.
