Iowa - Purdue Game Discussion Thread

[BCfanatic2020]

I wasn't really talking about your posts, moreso others, although yours might have contributed to the overall "storm of negativity." Especially saying things like this: "The criticism is toward the staff for not being able to get recruited talent to play better than him. Ditto horvath and Thienemann (but especially Thienemann)." Why take the pessimistic view there? Why not credit the staff for being able to overdevelop talent to the point that walkons are able to develop even more than higher starred recruits? In the end, the only statistics that matter are the number of W's...

That’s reality. If you don’t think Wisconsin coaches are going to sit in meetings tomorrow and say:

“Here are the clips of O’Connell when Iowa brought the heat”

“Horvath did some nice things but we definitely think we can deal with him without compromising coverage on the back end”

And

“As we roll the tape .. watch 38.. we wanna get him in space and make plays around him.”

You’re dreaming.

Not negative not positive. Real

 

[BCfanatic2020]

I wasn't really talking about your posts, moreso others, although yours might have contributed to the overall "storm of negativity." Especially saying things like this: "The criticism is toward the staff for not being able to get recruited talent to play better than him. Ditto horvath and Thienemann (but especially Thienemann)." Why take the pessimistic view there? Why not credit the staff for being able to overdevelop talent to the point that walkons are able to develop even more than higher starred recruits? In the end, the only statistics that matter are the number of W's...

But I also think this is a problem with society. I don’t have that “why do you act like yourself” gene in me. I have that mind my own f-ing business gene lol

 

[purduepat1969]

That’s reality. If you don’t think Wisconsin coaches are going to sit in meetings tomorrow and say:

“Here are the clips of O’Connell when Iowa brought the heat”

“Horvath did some nice things but we definitely think we can deal with him without compromising coverage on the back end”

And

“As we roll the tape .. watch 38.. we wanna get him in space and make plays around him.”

You’re dreaming.

Not negative not positive. Real

Agreed. Thienemen might be cerebral. But he's just not making the plays on the field when they need to be made. His coverage on TEs and RBs is just not good.

 

[BCfanatic2020]

Agreed. Thienemen might be cerebral. But he's just not making the plays on the field when they need to be made. His coverage on TEs and RBs is just not good.

And coaches are taking the easy way out. They have better athletes but that athlete may blow a coverage or take a false step or make a mistake. The attitude is “well let’s do the easy thing and just roll with Thienemann. Getting player x to be his more athletic self and also as cerebral as Thienemann? That would be hard work! That’s played out.”

Happens at all levels

 

[BCfanatic2020]

Agreed. Thienemen might be cerebral. But he's just not making the plays on the field when they need to be made. His coverage on TEs and RBs is just not good.

Next week when it looks like passes are always being completed around Thienemann, the difference between us and other people is..

We know that wasn’t an accident. The Wisconsin coaches worked hard to make that happen.

 

[Dandelion1972]

No, it's not all terrible. But this shouldn't even be a close game with a dynamic offense, which is what should be happening in year 4. We don't have a dominant defense, so we have to outscore.

Were playing a team that was 10-3 last year, and it shouldn't even be close!?

 

[Dandelion1972]

I still don’t think that AOC is the guy, but I respect that he got us the W and I’ll take it! The underlying positive is that no matter who is under center for us the wr group will make the most of anything they can get their hands on

Isn't AOC 3 and 2?

 

[purduepat1969]

Were playing a team that was 10-3 last year, and it shouldn't even be close!?

The way Iowa was playing on offense, with an effective offense of our own, this shouldn't have been a close game. They scored 20 points. Some of that was due to a young QB. Some was due to some better defense of ours in the second half. Our offense didn't look that good against a team with a suspect secondary and a lot of new players on their D line. It was an ugly game. This team has ALOT to work on if they want a winning season.

 

[purduepat1969]

Isn't AOC 3 and 2?

If you didn't see the number of mistakes he made on the field, I can't help you. Purdue won this game despite those mistakes. And it shouldn't have been as close as it was.

 

[BoilerGrad02]

Were playing a team that was 10-3 last year, and it shouldn't even be close!?

No shit. Did we just squeak by Toledo?

Iowa Is coming off a Holiday Bowl win over USC and we should have walked over them by 3 tds.

 

[purduepat1969]

No shit. Did we just squeak by Toledo?

Iowa Is coming off a Holiday Bowl win over USC and we should have walked over them by 3 tds.

You apparently have reading comprehension issues. I said the way they were playing, we should have won bigger than we did had we played better on offense. And BTW, the Iowa team from last year isn't the same team. New QB for one.

 

[AZPurdue]

I am very glad Purdue won but the refs really missed the pass interference by the defense on the 4th down play for Iowa at the end. Usually, Purdue is on the wrong end of the missed/bad call.

Hard to expect a flag when you throw into triple coverage at the end of the game on 4th and 10. Refs won’t bail you out.

Our secondary was so soft all day. Had to have someone else who was open. Seems like Petras decided where the ball was going before it was snapped.

 

[Dandelion1972]

I guess when you're playing a team that was 10-3 last year and won a bowl game. They were favored by 3.5 points.

We're playing without our head coach, our best player and 1st string running back.

Yeah, I see your point, "it shouldn't even have been close!"

 

[BoilerGrad02]

You apparently have reading comprehension issues. I said the way they were playing, we should have won bigger than we did had we played better on offense. And BTW, the Iowa team from last year isn't the same team. New QB for one.

They had over 450 yards in total offense and significantly out gained us. They actually played pretty well but Purdue forced two very opportune fumbles. Without those two even a better offensive game doesn’t win it for Purdue. That’s a good Iowa team.

I get it. Some people just like to bitch.

 

[purduepat1969]

I guess when you're playing a team that was 10-3 last year and won a bowl game. They were favored by 3.5 points.

We're playing without our head coach, our best player and 1st string running back.

Yeah, I see your point, "it shouldn't even have been close!"

Like how you take things out of context...

 

[wallyboiler79]

You apparently have reading comprehension issues. I said the way they were playing, we should have won bigger than we did had we played better on offense. And BTW, the Iowa team from last year isn't the same team. New QB for one.

Most of the time, how a team plays has something to do with how well the opponent plays. Give these players some credit once in a while. How about that second half defense!

 

[purduepat1969]

I guess when you're playing a team that was 10-3 last year and won a bowl game. They were favored by 3.5 points.

We're playing without our head coach, our best player and 1st string running back.

Yeah, I see your point, "it shouldn't even have been close!"

Funny how a 10-3 team from last year was only a 3.5 point favorite vs a 4-8 team from last year. Previous year records mean nothing.

 

[Purdue85]

The point is, Plummer has way better measurables. If he’s not beating O’Connell out, that means the coaches are failing when it comes to developing recruited talent. Ditto Thienemann and horvath. Graham looks lost so I have a hard time believing they couldn’t do better.

Not remotely true.

Sometimes people just work their asses off and earn their way. And, they do that under the development of the coaches!

It's clear Horvath has done that. Two straight 100 yard games.

It's clear O'Connell has done that. That dude is a D1 player right now. He's not NFL-caliber, but he belongs.

I get it: people don't like it that we don't have another Brees in the pipeline; no Orton; no Painter (to badmouth). All were NFL players.

We'll see how it all plays out, but I absolutely love having players who give their all, clearly bust their asses in the offseason to get better, show it on the practice field, and earn a spot in the lineup.

Too many people are p*ssing all over that work ethic. It's a shame, because that's what life looks like.

 

[Purdue85]

Funny how a 10-3 team from last year was only a 3.5 point favorite vs a 4-8 team from last year. Previous year records mean nothing.

'
Many of us have been saying that for some time, and were lectured to (not by you) that we were making excuses.

by the way... where ARE some of those posters....????

 

[BCfanatic2020]

Not remotely true.

Sometimes people just work their asses off and earn their way. And, they do that under the development of the coaches!

It's clear Horvath has done that. Two straight 100 yard games.

It's clear O'Connell has done that. That dude is a D1 player right now. He's not NFL-caliber, but he belongs.

I get it: people don't like it that we don't have another Brees in the pipeline; no Orton; no Painter (to badmouth). All were NFL players.

We'll see how it all plays out, but I absolutely love having players who give their all, clearly bust their asses in the offseason to get better, show it on the practice field, and earn a spot in the lineup.

Too many people are p*ssing all over that work ethic. It's a shame, because that's what life looks like.

So you are saying that Plummer, Hewitt and Marvin grant aren’t more talented than those three?

Can they fail to put the work in? Sure. If you wanna call it some unknown distribution of failure between the coaches and those players fine. But that’s what it is. You will see:

> teams dial up the pressure on O’Connell and affect him greatly
> teams deal with horvath just fine
> teams put Brennan in space and hit passes for chunks of yards all around him

 

[AugustaBoiler90]

The fact of the matter is that Purdue got the W. It wasn’t perfect, but it’s the result we all were hoping for and that in itself is an improvement

 

[Esox54547]

I guess we have coaches that don’t really care about winning. They are playing guys who are far inferior to others on the roster. Of course that’s being sarcastic. Yes I think 38 is somewhat of a liability but obviously Grant isn’t ready. As for O’Connell, I thought he played terrific under pressure. He would move in the pocket to buy time. The problem was our receivers often didn’t help him out. Many times if they weren’t the primary option they hardly ran the route. I’m thinking that will get corrected in the following film study.

 

[Beorik]

So you are saying that Plummer, Hewitt and Marvin grant aren’t more talented than those three?

Can they fail to put the work in? Sure. If you wanna call it some unknown distribution of failure between the coaches and those players fine. But that’s what it is. You will see:

> teams dial up the pressure on O’Connell and affect him greatly
> teams deal with horvath just fine
> teams put Brennan in space and hit passes for chunks of yards all around him

I am not sure anyone here is more qualified to judge talent more so than our coaching staff who chose those guys as starters. So talented or not, they are better (or possibly healthier). There are a ton of reasons why a lower rated recruit ends up better than a higher rated one and I just chose not to think of their success as a negative or a failure.

Additionally O’Connell has handled pressure pretty well in the games he has started. In fact, I would list poise under pressure as one of his strengths. And having both Moore and Bell together (fingers crossed) puts defenses in a tough situation because pressure leaves one or both 1v1.

Iowa and IU didn’t deal with Horvath well so all teams don’t.

And finally our defensive struggles looooong predates Brennen so I highly doubt he is our issue. This was our first game with our new defense and it was against a decent team. I am actually pretty excited about only giving up 20 points and getting a couple turnovers.

All in all it was a great day to be a Boilermaker! Boiler Up!

 

[purduepat1969]

I guess we have coaches that don’t really care about winning. They are playing guys who are far inferior to others on the roster. Of course that’s being sarcastic. Yes I think 38 is somewhat of a liability but obviously Grant isn’t ready. As for O’Connell, I thought he played terrific under pressure. He would move in the pocket to buy time. The problem was our receivers often didn’t help him out. Many times if they weren’t the primary option they hardly ran the route. I’m thinking that will get corrected in the following film study.

At this point it seems Diaco values understanding of the play calling versus executing it well. I'm hopeful Grant or another safety picks up the defensive play calling. Otherwise that liability on the field is going to cost us games. I also feel like Poindexter needs to start feeling some heat for the performance of the secondary. It was a rough day for them and it's been a shit show for several years. He may be able to recruit, but I've not been impressed with his coaching.

 

[Purdue85]

So you are saying that Plummer, Hewitt and Marvin grant aren’t more talented than those three?

Can they fail to put the work in? Sure. If you wanna call it some unknown distribution of failure between the coaches and those players fine. But that’s what it is. You will see:

> teams dial up the pressure on O’Connell and affect him greatly
> teams deal with horvath just fine
> teams put Brennan in space and hit passes for chunks of yards all around him

Nope. Didn't say anything like that.

Talent only gets you so far. Work ethic takes you farther.

I'm not saying the guys you mentioned don't have the work ethic. When you get to this level, work ethic can be the difference-maker. Not only that, sometimes it's comfort level. A player can have less talent, but has the confidence of the coaches to execute.

Three of the last five games, O'Connell has led game-winning drives. That's not an anomaly, brother. That means he has something. Something more than just talent. Coaches at the high levels see this and know this. And it can separate one player from another.

I don't have all the answers, and I appreciate the back-and-forth. I truly do.

 

[clbndgm]

Looking forward to see Rondale and David play together. How can you stop the Dynamic Duo.

Yes, now you see the difficulty that opposing DCs are going to be facing all year (with the hope that Rondale is in to make this true):

You can't stop them- you can only hope to contain them! (and good luck with that, guys!!)

 

[purduepat1969]

I am not sure anyone here is more qualified to judge talent more so than our coaching staff who chose those guys as starters. So talented or not, they are better (or possibly healthier). There are a ton of reasons why a lower rated recruit ends up better than a higher rated one and I just chose not to think of their success as a negative or a failure.

Additionally O’Connell has handled pressure pretty well in the games he has started. In fact, I would list poise under pressure as one of his strengths. And having both Moore and Bell together (fingers crossed) puts defenses in a tough situation because pressure leaves one or both 1v1.

Iowa and IU didn’t deal with Horvath well so all teams don’t.

And finally our defensive struggles looooong predates Brennen so I highly doubt he is our issue. This was our first game with our new defense and it was against a decent team. I am actually pretty excited about only giving up 20 points and getting a couple turnovers.

All in all it was a great day to be a Boilermaker! Boiler Up!

Thienemen is apparently an intelligent player and a hard worker. He's apparently earned his playing time. But you can't sit there and say he's not a liability on this D. He got torched in coverage multiple times yesterday. Is he the cause of our issues in the secondary? No. Is he helping them? I don't think so. Sooner or later the talented players being recruited need to start hitting the field if this team is going to have a shot at winning the West.

With regard to giving up only 20 points, I'll agree that's a great step in the right direction. Last year's D would have given up many more points in this game. I loved the aggressive play at the end of the game. I think this D is going to do nothing but improve.

 

[BCfanatic2020]

I am not sure anyone here is more qualified to judge talent more so than our coaching staff who chose those guys as starters. So talented or not, they are better (or possibly healthier). There are a ton of reasons why a lower rated recruit ends up better than a higher rated one and I just chose not to think of their success as a negative or a failure.

Additionally O’Connell has handled pressure pretty well in the games he has started. In fact, I would list poise under pressure as one of his strengths. And having both Moore and Bell together (fingers crossed) puts defenses in a tough situation because pressure leaves one or both 1v1.

Iowa and IU didn’t deal with Horvath well so all teams don’t.

And finally our defensive struggles looooong predates Brennen so I highly doubt he is our issue. This was our first game with our new defense and it was against a decent team. I am actually pretty excited about only giving up 20 points and getting a couple turnovers.

All in all it was a great day to be a Boilermaker! Boiler Up!

You’re looking at this individually and morally. If you go to top programs and you have a collection of high rated recruits sitting while players stand there like sitting ducks and get sacked or get abused in coverage, those fans and those donors are gonna say “yeah f that shit, why isn’t coach x developing talent.”

You’re going back to the end of the tiller era to make some moral stand for dan bick. F that. Brohm is getting paid and it’s year four. We shouldn’t be watching Logan link get used in coverage cause “other guys can’t or won’t.”

Brohm is responsible for GETTING THEM TO. Get it? And he’s not getting paid Danny Hope dollars

 

[BCfanatic2020]

Nope. Didn't say anything like that.

Talent only gets you so far. Work ethic takes you farther.

I'm not saying the guys you mentioned don't have the work ethic. When you get to this level, work ethic can be the difference-maker. Not only that, sometimes it's comfort level. A player can have less talent, but has the confidence of the coaches to execute.

Three of the last five games, O'Connell has led game-winning drives. That's not an anomaly, brother. That means he has something. Something more than just talent. Coaches at the high levels see this and know this. And it can separate one player from another.

I don't have all the answers, and I appreciate the back-and-forth. I truly do.

You’re going back to 2005 to make a moral stand for dan bick while Selwyn Lymon pisses himself.

This isn’t individual or moral. Brohm is in year four making big money. Lovie put an athletic team on the field in year 4. He managed to take 85 scholarships and get 22 guys more athletic than Thienemann out there. Whether you just watched Rocky 5 or not, Brohm should be able to do the same

 

[BCfanatic2020]

The fact of the matter is that Purdue got the W. It wasn’t perfect, but it’s the result we all were hoping for and that in itself is an improvement

Against a team whose own board is saying that they aren’t good.

 

[BCfanatic2020]

I guess we have coaches that don’t really care about winning. They are playing guys who are far inferior to others on the roster. Of course that’s being sarcastic. Yes I think 38 is somewhat of a liability but obviously Grant isn’t ready. As for O’Connell, I thought he played terrific under pressure. He would move in the pocket to buy time. The problem was our receivers often didn’t help him out. Many times if they weren’t the primary option they hardly ran the route. I’m thinking that will get corrected in the following film study.

The entire point is it’s their job to GET HIM to be ready. Those are the little things that add up to coaches being worth the money.

 

[Purdue85]

You’re going back to 2005 to make a moral stand for dan bick while Selwyn Lymon pisses himself.

This isn’t individual or moral. Brohm is in year four making big money. Lovie put an athletic team on the field in year 4. He managed to take 85 scholarships and get 22 guys more athletic than Thienemann out there. Whether you just watched Rocky 5 or not, Brohm should be able to do the same

I'm what???

I'll apologize up front, as I don't intend my comments to be confrontational in nature, but your response is just bizarre as hell.

I'll let my comments prior to your last response stand, as nothing you wrote changes anything.

 

[Purdue85]

Against a team whose own board is saying that they aren’t good.

Yes, that must be true, because we've never witnessed fans overreacting and turning an internet forum into an emotional mess after a loss.

Hells bells, dude, we've got that here after a win. Exhibit A is this thread...

 

[BCfanatic2020]

I'm what???

I'll apologize up front, as I don't intend my comments to be confrontational in nature, but your response is just bizarre as hell.

I'll let my comments prior to your last response stand, as nothing you wrote changes anything.

This isn’t about individuals or hard work.

Coaches get paid to get recruited talent on the field. Oconnell and horvath should be valuable assets as second stringers and Thienemann should be 3rd string

“But some guys work hard.” If guys aren’t working hard at power programs you do realize that their life becomes very uncomfortable right?

 

[BCfanatic2020]

Yes, that must be true, because we've never witnessed fans overreacting and turning an internet forum into an emotional mess after a loss.

Hells bells, dude, we've got that here after a win. Exhibit A is this thread...

You think Iowa is good? In a 12 games season that looked like a 6-6 team if they cupcaked their preseason.

The drew Tate Hawkeyes would have beat us like buddahaw got beat by Ohio State yesterday

 

[Purdue85]

This isn’t about individuals or hard work.

Coaches get paid to get recruited talent on the field. Oconnell and horvath should be valuable assets as second stringers and Thienemann should be 3rd string

“But some guys work hard.” If guys aren’t working hard at power programs you do realize that their life becomes very uncomfortable right?

that's nonsense.

It is about individuals and hard work, because you brought up specific individuals.

I'm sure Wisconsin fans were mad as hell that the Wisconsin coaches permitted the development of JJ Watt, a walk on, and didn't see the same type of development of other D linemen who were recruited and offered scholarships. (???!)

Coaches don't "get paid to get recruited talent on the field". They get paid to do a number of things, most notably to get the most out of the young men in their program, and, ultimately, win games.

Your argument: Coaches should lead their teams in such as way as to prevent, stunt, or otherwise hold down the development of some players (like walk ons), and only allow development of others (scholarship). I hope we never see that at Purdue. Every program (and, especially, their fans) should embrace and be proud of the young men who come into the program, fight like hell, and ultimately EARN the right to be on the field in whatever capacity they can do that.

I'm stunned at this thread.

 

[Purdue85]

You think Iowa is good? In a 12 games season that looked like a 6-6 team if they cupcaked their preseason.

The drew Tate Hawkeyes would have beat us like buddahaw got beat by Ohio State yesterday

I don't know if Iowa is good, and neither do you or (at this point) their fans. My point was abundantly clear and still stands.

Drew Tate wasn't playing, nor was "his Hawkeyes", nor is that point (whatever it was) remotely relevant.

 

[BCfanatic2020]

that's nonsense.

It is about individuals and hard work, because you brought up specific individuals.

I'm sure Wisconsin fans were mad as hell that the Wisconsin coaches permitted the development of JJ Watt, a walk on, and didn't see the same type of develop of other D linemen who were recruited and offered scholarships. (???!)

Coaches don't "get paid to get recruited talent on the field". They get paid to do a number of things, most notably to get the most out of the young men in their program, and, ultimately, win games.

Your argument: Coaches should lead their teams in such as way as to prevent, stunt, or otherwise hold down the development of some players (like walk ons), and only allow development of others (scholarship). I hope we never see that at Purdue. Every program (and, especially, their fans) should embrace and be proud of the young men who come into the program, fight like hell, and ultimately EARN the right to be on the field in whatever capacity they can do that.

I'm stunned at this thread.

You’re bringing up an exceptional late bloomer and suggesting it means that Brennan is Jake?

I did bring up individuals. What I say here doesn’t mean it’s not brohms job to take 85 scholarships and have less exploitable players than O’Connell and Thienemann starting. Lovie did it in year 4. Go back and watch Illinois and find one non athlete on their defense, or offense for that matter last year

And that’s Lovie lol

If you’re looking for me to fall into your straw man of not appreciating horvath O’Connell and Thienemann for their hard work.. that’s not me. O’Connell has accuracy I only wish u could go back in time and give to painter and sindelar. Horvath is a warrior and I presume Thienemann is working his tail off.

This just isn’t about that. It’s year four. I’ve defended Brohm for 3 years against any criticism. It’s time to expect more.

 

[BCfanatic2020]

I don't know if Iowa is good, and neither do you or (at this point) their fans. My point was abundantly clear and still stands.

Drew Tate wasn't playing, nor was "his Hawkeyes", nor is that point (whatever it was) remotely relevant.

You haven’t watched enough football to know that they looked like they were playing about as poorly as the Danny hope team that willed itself to a 5-6 turnover three point loss to northwestern?

You want positives from yesterday? Their are plenty ..

OL looked vastly improved. Wasn’t sure a good back like DJ Knox could have ever run for 100 yards again after last year. Jornigan and Craig brought the beef and the C and RT position was serviceable. Hermanns obviously future pro. Lots of teams like Nebraska should be afraid of our OL if we were that stout against Iowa.

Howard and Mitchell played like they’ve been here already. That’s great news. I didn’t see our linebackers look quite as bad as last year. The mid game problems started up front. Good news though.. Lorenzo Neal appeared to play more like Lorenzo Neal as the game went on. Again if you’re Nebraska or northwestern this is not good.

Diaco adjusted. Wow. I’m used to .. we do good things, opposing OC adjusts, we don’t readjust.

O’Connell very accurate. After rewatching I think horvath will be an asset hopefully backing up Doerue. O’Connell is accurate... mostly on the Thienemann thing still. I’d like to see O’Connell exploit the blitz more since good DCs will bring the heat

Baller alert

Karlaftis
Allen
Hermanns
Bell

I’d list those players as impact players next week if I was the broadcast

 

[Beorik]

that's nonsense.

It is about individuals and hard work, because you brought up specific individuals.

I'm sure Wisconsin fans were mad as hell that the Wisconsin coaches permitted the development of JJ Watt, a walk on, and didn't see the same type of development of other D linemen who were recruited and offered scholarships. (???!)

Coaches don't "get paid to get recruited talent on the field". They get paid to do a number of things, most notably to get the most out of the young men in their program, and, ultimately, win games.

Your argument: Coaches should lead their teams in such as way as to prevent, stunt, or otherwise hold down the development of some players (like walk ons), and only allow development of others (scholarship). I hope we never see that at Purdue. Every program (and, especially, their fans) should embrace and be proud of the young men who come into the program, fight like hell, and ultimately EARN the right to be on the field in whatever capacity they can do that.

I'm stunned at this thread.

I could not agree more. Stunned!
I don’t understand the negative attitude about something that happens all the time in football. Under rated player (including walk-on) beat out higher rated player at every single program. Even in the Pros you get undrafted people becoming starters and even all stars over highly drafted players.

Some of us choose not to think of it as an indictment on the coaches or other players. I personally thought O’Connell looked like the best qb on our roster last year and now has beat out 3 and 4 star players to win the staring job. I think that is great for him and us.

And we got a big win!

Boiler Up!