intentional or coincidence, you be the judge

[TopSecretBoiler]

Lynch and the former president’s spokesperson said the meeting was an innocent and innocuous conversation between the attorney general and the former president in which they mostly talked about golf and compared notes on grandchildren. The two prominent figures crossed paths by happenstance at the airport and decided to chat privately on a plane.

But with Lynch responsible for overseeing an FBI investigation and making the final decision on whether to prosecute Hillary Clinton for mishandling sensitive government email during her four years as secretary of state, the optics were so bad that some Democrats for once agreed with Donald Trump that the meeting smelled fishy and revives concerns about whether the Justice Department can conduct an independent investigation of the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee.

"It was really a sneak," a delighted Trump, the presumptive GOP presidential nominee, said in an interview with conservative talk show host Mike Gallagher. “You see a thing like this and, even in terms of judgment, how bad of judgment is it for him or for her to do this? Who would do this?"

During a news conference in Phoenix on Tuesday, Lynch confirmed her meeting with Bill Clinton and vigorously denied that the two discussed any matter pending before her department, including the email probe. "I did see President Clinton at the Phoenix airport as he was leaving and he spoke to myself and my husband on the plane," Lynch said, according to CNN. "Our conversation was a great deal about grandchildren, it was primarily social about our travels and he mentioned golf he played in Phoenix."

 

[buygreekbonds]

Lynch and the former president’s spokesperson said the meeting was an innocent and innocuous conversation between the attorney general and the former president in which they mostly talked about golf and compared notes on grandchildren. The two prominent figures crossed paths by happenstance at the airport and decided to chat privately on a plane.

But with Lynch responsible for overseeing an FBI investigation and making the final decision on whether to prosecute Hillary Clinton for mishandling sensitive government email during her four years as secretary of state, the optics were so bad that some Democrats for once agreed with Donald Trump that the meeting smelled fishy and revives concerns about whether the Justice Department can conduct an independent investigation of the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee.

"It was really a sneak," a delighted Trump, the presumptive GOP presidential nominee, said in an interview with conservative talk show host Mike Gallagher. “You see a thing like this and, even in terms of judgment, how bad of judgment is it for him or for her to do this? Who would do this?"

During a news conference in Phoenix on Tuesday, Lynch confirmed her meeting with Bill Clinton and vigorously denied that the two discussed any matter pending before her department, including the email probe. "I did see President Clinton at the Phoenix airport as he was leaving and he spoke to myself and my husband on the plane," Lynch said, according to CNN. "Our conversation was a great deal about grandchildren, it was primarily social about our travels and he mentioned golf he played in Phoenix."

"The two prominent figures crossed paths by happenstance at the airport...."
Does any person in America believe this?

 

[qazplm]

of course, it was reported today that she has said she will follow whatever the FBI and her attorneys recommend.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/02/u...n-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=1

 

[TopSecretBoiler]

of course, it was reported today that she has said she will follow whatever the FBI and her attorneys recommend.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/02/u...n-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=1

no comment on the actual subject? Is this an appearance of impropriety?
Canon 2: A Judge Should Avoid Impropriety and the Appearance of Impropriety in all Activities

(A) Respect for Law. A judge should respect and comply with the law and should act at all times in a manner that promotes public confidence in the integrity and impartiality of the judiciary.

(B) Outside Influence. A judge should not allow family, social, political, financial, or other relationships to influence judicial conduct or judgment. A judge should neither lend the prestige of the judicial office to advance the private interests of the judge or others nor convey or permit others to convey the impression that they are in a special position to influence the judge. A judge should not testify voluntarily as a character witness.

i love how these figures are never ever guilty of anything more than "bad judgment".

 

[TOKenBoiler]

no comment on the actual subject? Is this an appearance of impropriety?
Canon 2: A Judge Should Avoid Impropriety and the Appearance of Impropriety in all Activities

(A) Respect for Law. A judge should respect and comply with the law and should act at all times in a manner that promotes public confidence in the integrity and impartiality of the judiciary.

(B) Outside Influence. A judge should not allow family, social, political, financial, or other relationships to influence judicial conduct or judgment. A judge should neither lend the prestige of the judicial office to advance the private interests of the judge or others nor convey or permit others to convey the impression that they are in a special position to influence the judge. A judge should not testify voluntarily as a character witness.

i love how these figures are never ever guilty of anything more than "bad judgment".

Pretty sure she's not a judge. So, not certain how the Judicial Canons of Ethics applies to her.

 

[TopSecretBoiler]

Pretty sure she's not a judge. So, not certain how the Judicial Canons of Ethics applies to her.

lol ok I'll go pull it out of the lawyers one. let's all be pedants today.

 

[TopSecretBoiler]

It is the duty of a lawyer at the time of retainer to disclose to the client all the circumstances of his relations to the parties, and any interest in or connection with the controversy, which might influence the client in the selection of counsel. It is unprofessional to represent conflicting interests, except by express consent of all concerned given after a full disclosure of the facts. With in the meaning of this canon, a lawyer represents conflicting interests when, in behalf of one client, it is his duty to contend for that which duty to another client requires him to oppose. The obligation to represent the client with undivided loyalty and not to divulge his secrets or confidences forbids also the subsequent acceptance of retainers or employment from others in matters adversely affecting any interest of the client with respect to which confidence has been reposed.

If it's even possible, she needs to recuse herself.

 

[TOKenBoiler]

It's not being pedantic. There are different ethical standards governing lawyers and judges. The old ABA Model Code of Professional Conduct contained an "appearance of impropriety" standard for lawyers, but the current ABA Model Rules of Professional Conduct do not.

 

[TopSecretBoiler]

It's not being pedantic. There are different ethical standards governing lawyers and judges. The old ABA Model Code of Professional Conduct contained an "appearance of impropriety" standard for lawyers, but the current ABA Model Rules of Professional Conduct do not.

There's still provisions for conflicts of interest either way.

 

[TOKenBoiler]

Without more than meeting with Bill Clinton on a plane, I don't think you can establish a "conflict of interest." Now, if you can prove they discussed the investigation into Hillary's emails, then you got something.

 

[TopSecretBoiler]

Without more than meeting with Bill Clinton on a plane, I don't think you can establish a "conflict of interest." Now, if you can prove they discussed the investigation into Hillary's emails, then you got something.

generally, the appearance of such activity is enough. I'm not blaming LL for anything, I don't think she's a bad person or AG. I just think she should recuse herself from this case. You can't be having private meetings with the husband of someone under a federal investigation who is also a lawyer and former president. It looks awful, even if it was innocent, and is almost certainly unethical.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

generally, the appearance of such activity is enough. I'm not blaming LL for anything, I don't think she's a bad person or AG. I just think she should recuse herself from this case. You can't be having private meetings with the husband of someone under a federal investigation who is also a lawyer and former president. It looks awful, even if it was innocent, and is almost certainly unethical.

Um, she's not individually doing any work on the case as USAG. How, exactly, do you propose she "recuse" herself? Someone else in the Department makes the announcements as pertains to it? Unless you're calling for her resignation as AG, there's no way for her to "recuse" herself from a case in which she is not an active participant...

 

[TopSecretBoiler]

Um, she's not individually doing any work on the case as USAG. How, exactly, do you propose she "recuse" herself? Someone else in the Department makes the announcements as pertains to it? Unless you're calling for her resignation as AG, there's no way for her to "recuse" herself from a case in which she is not an active participant...

I don't think this is quite true. She can lessen the severity of any recommended punishment (eg patreous) and be part of the briefing.

from bloomberg:
U.S. Attorney General Loretta Lynch said she expects to accept the recommendations of prosecutors and FBI investigators on whether to bring charges after their probe into Hillary Clinton’s personal e-mail server, while acknowledging that her meeting on Monday with Bill Clinton “cast a shadow” on the inquiry.

At the same time, Lynch seemed to contradict her own suggestion that she would automatically accept the findings of career prosecutors when she said the Clinton e-mail case would be “handled like any other.” Earlier Friday, a top Justice Department official told Bloomberg that Lynch would reserve her right to overrule prosecutors’ recommendation -- an option attorneys general typically possess, but rarely use, in criminal cases.

“I fully expect to accept their recommendations,” Lynch said Friday at the Aspen Ideas Festival in Colorado. “The final determination for how to proceed will be contained in the recommendations in the report.”

Lynch has come under criticism after she met privately on board an aircraft in Phoenix with former President Bill Clinton. She described the encounter as a purely “social” occurrence that won’t “have a bearing” on the e-mail investigation and said: “I certainly would not do it again.” But she emphasized that she wouldn’t recuse herself from her role in reviewing and acting on prosecutors’ findings.

“A recusal would mean that I wouldn’t even be briefed on what the findings were, or what the actions going forward would be,” Lynch said. “While I don’t have a role in those findings and coming up with those findings or making those recommendations as to how to go forward, I’ll be briefed on it and I will be accepting their recommendations.”

Lynch and her aide both emphasized the case would be handled in the usual manner, despite its high-profile political stakes and the meeting with Bill Clinton. The usual manner includes the attorney general showing strong deference to her staff recommendations, while reserving the right to overturn their proposal.

 

[qazplm]

Without more than meeting with Bill Clinton on a plane, I don't think you can establish a "conflict of interest." Now, if you can prove they discussed the investigation into Hillary's emails, then you got something.

It wasn't illegal to meet him or a conflict of interest as you say, but it was ill-advised. But IMO she's solved this by saying she will do whatever her folks advise. She's effectively "recused" herself by taking herself out of the decision-making matrix. But for some folks, that won't be enough.

 

[buygreekbonds]

Does anyone believe that the meeting at the Phoenix Airport was a chance encounter? I guess I need to ask by name.

qaz, Gr8, do either of you believe that LoLy (a truly great acronym for this low life liar) and Bill Clinton just met by chance at the airport?

"Oh looky there. there's Bill Clinton!"

 

[qazplm]

Does anyone believe that the meeting at the Phoenix Airport was a chance encounter? I guess I need to ask by name.

qaz, Gr8, do either of you believe that LoLy (a truly great acronym for this low life liar) and Bill Clinton just met by chance at the airport?

"Oh looky there. there's Bill Clinton!"

no it was all an evil conspiracy.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

Does anyone believe that the meeting at the Phoenix Airport was a chance encounter? I guess I need to ask by name.

qaz, Gr8, do either of you believe that LoLy (a truly great acronym for this low life liar) and Bill Clinton just met by chance at the airport?

"Oh looky there. there's Bill Clinton!"

Don't know. Don't care. Conspiracies are often not the simplest explanation. And that is what I usually go with.

 

[qazplm]

Trump sends fundraising letters to foreigners...intentional or mistake?

What would the answer be if it were Clinton?

For the record I suspect it's incompetence not intentional.

 

[TopSecretBoiler]

Trump sends fundraising letters to foreigners...intentional or mistake?

What would the answer be if it were Clinton?

For the record I suspect it's incompetence not intentional.

what kind of low grade dim witted strawman is this? rofl...only qaz...

 

[TopSecretBoiler]

It wasn't illegal to meet him or a conflict of interest as you say, but it was ill-advised. But IMO she's solved this by saying she will do whatever her folks advise. She's effectively "recused" herself by taking herself out of the decision-making matrix. But for some folks, that won't be enough.

If Bill turns out to be a material witness in this case, which he could be depending on what all they are investigating, then it sure was illegal. LL hasn't effectively done anything except say she is going to follow the normal procedure.

 

[Bruce1]

There's still provisions for conflicts of interest either way.

The DOJ has its own Ethics Policies

https://www.justice.gov/jmd/conflicts

 

[lbodel]

Lynch and the former president’s spokesperson said the meeting was an innocent and innocuous conversation between the attorney general and the former president in which they mostly talked about golf and compared notes on grandchildren. The two prominent figures crossed paths by happenstance at the airport and decided to chat privately on a plane.

But with Lynch responsible for overseeing an FBI investigation and making the final decision on whether to prosecute Hillary Clinton for mishandling sensitive government email during her four years as secretary of state, the optics were so bad that some Democrats for once agreed with Donald Trump that the meeting smelled fishy and revives concerns about whether the Justice Department can conduct an independent investigation of the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee.

"It was really a sneak," a delighted Trump, the presumptive GOP presidential nominee, said in an interview with conservative talk show host Mike Gallagher. “You see a thing like this and, even in terms of judgment, how bad of judgment is it for him or for her to do this? Who would do this?"

During a news conference in Phoenix on Tuesday, Lynch confirmed her meeting with Bill Clinton and vigorously denied that the two discussed any matter pending before her department, including the email probe. "I did see President Clinton at the Phoenix airport as he was leaving and he spoke to myself and my husband on the plane," Lynch said, according to CNN. "Our conversation was a great deal about grandchildren, it was primarily social about our travels and he mentioned golf he played in Phoenix."

Quite frankly, I think this is more of an optics problem than anything.

First off, Lynch and Clinton (Bill that is) know one another through work related things. I really doubt that he went over to talk to her - with her husband also there (which many people leave out) - about her wife's case. Does it LOOK bad? Sure. But if he wanted to talk to her about the case - he could call her any time.

That also being said, what's being ignored is that she's rather respected as a straight shooter that doesn't really get involved with schmoozing - she's already gone so far to say she's going to accept whatever recommendation career FBI investigators have. On top of that, the FBI director is a VERY well respected straight shooter himself. If there's any sort of political pressure put on the FBI, it WILL come out and be known. There has not been evidence of this.

And last but not least, this has been known for months, but the bar is VERY high for someone to be charged in Clinton's situation. Basically anyone who's not dead set against Clinton has been saying they do not expect any charges for her - and the only way she would is if she is caught lying to the FBI, ala Martha Stewart. So the notion if she isn't charged that it's been rigged is just not true.

Overall, it was a very stupid thing for the both of them to do - but I do not think there was anything "wrong" going on. It just looks bad.