I Have Come To The Conclusion That

[ghostoffatjack]

DANIELS has screwed up the Football Program and AD Directorship as bad as K-12 Education in Indiana! One by the lack of leadership and direction and the other by his direct leadership! I stated when he was named Purdue's President by the "Country Club" BOT or D members that he appointed that it was a poor choice! All I can and will do now is drop my JPC membership and refuse to give one penny more to Purdue!

 

[To No]

The program was off the rails long before Daniel's took over.

Tiller was the last coach with meaningful success, but that was largely due to Brees and the gimmicky offense.

 

[BBG]

The program was off the rails long before Daniel's took over.

This.

 

[ghostoffatjack]

Was not as bad as the past 2 and 1/2 years have been! This is epic and Daniels was instrumental in Hazell's hire! Both Daniels AND Burke own this mess! SEND A MESSAGE, not a penny more!

 

[BoilerBonz]

The program was off the rails long before Daniel's took over.

Tiller was the last coach with meaningful success, but that was largely due to Brees and the gimmicky offense.

Come on .... Brees' last season was 2000 -- clearly we had many good teams and a few excellent ones afterwards, under Tiller.

 

[SDBoiler1]

DANIELS has screwed up the Football Program and AD Directorship as bad as K-12 Education in Indiana! One by the lack of leadership and direction and the other by his direct leadership! I stated when he was named Purdue's President by the "Country Club" BOT or D members that he appointed that it was a poor choice! All I can and will do now is drop my JPC membership and refuse to give one penny more to Purdue!

If you're looking for someone to blame, you're WAY offbase. Daniels wasn't even in office when Hazell was hired by Purdue (December 5, 2012). Daniels became President of Purdue on January 14, 2013. He had very little, if any, input on the Hazell hire.

It's your prerogative to hold Daniels' party affiliation against him, but to pin the current state of the Purdue football program on Mitch is frankly laughable. Also, as far as managing Purdue University, Daniels is doing a great job, IMHO.

 

[PBoiler84]

Daniels isn't the problem. The coaching staff and the guy who hired / won't fire them (Burke) are the main problems. Agree with SDBoiler1, there's other things going on at Purdue that Daniels is doing quite well. He has addressed the runaway expenses that led to ridiculous tuition costs for each student. As a parent with an out of state child there now, I can appreciate that. Also, look at the new interactive learning center they are building. It will be one of 2 programs like that in the US (other being Stanford). There are positive changes at Purdue - unfortunately the football program isn't one of them.

 

[lbodel]

Daniels isn't the problem. The coaching staff and the guy who hired / won't fire them (Burke) are the main problems. Agree with SDBoiler1, there's other things going on at Purdue that Daniels is doing quite well. He has addressed the runaway expenses that led to ridiculous tuition costs for each student. As a parent with an out of state child there now, I can appreciate that. Also, look at the new interactive learning center they are building. It will be one of 2 programs like that in the US (other being Stanford). There are positive changes at Purdue - unfortunately the football program isn't one of them.

I mean, look. You can trumpet things, but let's not be naive either.

The "runaway expenses" are still there. Currently, they are being masked by admitting more international students and higher enrollment numbers. As someone who worked at a higher institution, "freezes" are a political maneuver that do nothing more than hurt the university. There were 2 instances I have been involved in freezes. One was a hiring freeze. Sounds great right? Bloated staffs! Well, except when you have a staff member that moves cross country due to a spouse's relocation and you aren't allowed to fill that position because it would be a "new" hire, even though you're just replacing a position that was already in existence. The other was a salary freeze that was in effect multiple years. This also meant current employees couldn't be promoted. So imagine going over 3 years without anyone being allowed to be promoted in a company - you lose a lot of good employees. Let alone you get no COLA for three years. Costs are still going up, so basically you're taking a paycut by staying.

I commend efforts to keep tuition reasonable. But there's a difference between reasonable and realistic. It's not realistic to keep your main revenue source flat for multiple years. Should tuition go up 10-15% each year? Absolutely not. But Purdue's tuition was also very reasonable to begin with. Before Daniels started, it was still cheaper to go to Purdue than it was IU. And quite frankly, it wasn't much more expensive to go to Purdue than Ball State.

Sorry the mini-rant. This is not a 'political' thing either. The two experiences of freezes I've experienced were under both Republican and Democratic leadership.

 

[boilermaker75]

I mean, look. You can trumpet things, but let's not be naive either.

The "runaway expenses" are still there. Currently, they are being masked by admitting more international students and higher enrollment numbers. As someone who worked at a higher institution, "freezes" are a political maneuver that do nothing more than hurt the university. There were 2 instances I have been involved in freezes. One was a hiring freeze. Sounds great right? Bloated staffs! Well, except when you have a staff member that moves cross country due to a spouse's relocation and you aren't allowed to fill that position because it would be a "new" hire, even though you're just replacing a position that was already in existence. The other was a salary freeze that was in effect multiple years. This also meant current employees couldn't be promoted. So imagine going over 3 years without anyone being allowed to be promoted in a company - you lose a lot of good employees. Let alone you get no COLA for three years. Costs are still going up, so basically you're taking a paycut by staying.

I commend efforts to keep tuition reasonable. But there's a difference between reasonable and realistic. It's not realistic to keep your main revenue source flat for multiple years. Should tuition go up 10-15% each year? Absolutely not. But Purdue's tuition was also very reasonable to begin with. Before Daniels started, it was still cheaper to go to Purdue than it was IU. And quite frankly, it wasn't much more expensive to go to Purdue than Ball State.

Sorry the mini-rant. This is not a 'political' thing either. The two experiences of freezes I've experienced were under both Republican and Democratic leadership.

The above is absolutely correct about the tuition freeze.

Let me say just one thing about the interactive learning center. Purdue is in desperate need of regular classroom space. Classrooms are currently utilized at about 90-95%. I know that deans pleaded with Daniels to put some regular class rooms, especially a large lecture room, in the new building. His response was that we have a new way of teaching at Purdue. I hope it works out but I have strong reservations. I know faculty who have taught a course both ways, regular lecturing and this inverted interactive method. They say it took much more work to teach the inverted way, with no better results, so they were going back to standard lecture format. Purdue is a research university. Do you think faculty at Purdue, other than the current early adopters, are going to embrace a form of teaching that takes a lot more work to get the same results? OK I said more than one thing.

Edit: I think it is a great idea for students to get together in study groups and work together to learn. But in typical classes this should be going on outside the normal class room experience, not totally replacing the classroom experience. As is the case in med and law schools.

 

[gelesen]

There is just one problem and it is obvious. It is CDH. He is just not head coach material. He is the problem, it is as simple as that.

 

[pboiler18]

Why try to scapegoat somebody who ISNT involved in day to day Atheletic Department decisions...and somebody who shouldn't be?

The fact of the matter is that coaches just can't be hired and fired on a whim...as much as they need to be or deserve to be sometimes. Say what you want about Burke's decisions, but the timing of them as far as firing coaches hasn't been terrible. I think we let go of Hope when we should have and I trust some decent decisions will be made about this coach.

Firing Hazell at this point probably isn't the best thing to do for this team. It's not going to win us more games. It's just going to make crybabies like you less likely to kill themselves after a loss next week.

Firing Shoop on the other hand puts us in a decent position to score more, hence win some football games. Much easier to fire a coordinator and improve than it is to fire the head guy and try to keep it together.

 

[rjmpu82]

Daniels isn't the problem with the football program. All athletics aside, Daniels has done a great job keeping the cost of education frozen for the past 3 years. He is trying to put Purdue even more prominently on the map in terms of education and contribution to science and agriculture. Both of my kids just graduated in the past 2 years and they loved him. He is involved with the students. Look at it for what it is...a poor FB program with an AD who is antiquated. Daniels is not going to step in and be a major decision maker in the day to day operations of any of the athletic teams.

 

[pboiler18]

Daniels isn't the problem with the football program. All athletics aside, Daniels has done a great job keeping the cost of education frozen for the past 3 years. He is trying to put Purdue even more prominently on the map in terms of education and contribution to science and agriculture. Both of my kids just graduated in the past 2 years and they loved him. He is involved with the students. Look at it for what it is...a poor FB program with an AD who is antiquated. Daniels is not going to step in and be a major decision maker in the day to day operations of any of the athletic teams.

And wanting him to, or thinking that he should is a good idea is just stupid.

 

[ghostoffatjack]

If you're looking for someone to blame, you're WAY offbase. Daniels wasn't even in office when Hazell was hired by Purdue (December 5, 2012). Daniels became President of Purdue on January 14, 2013. He had very little, if any, input on the Hazell hire.

It's your prerogative to hold Daniels' party affiliation against him, but to pin the current state of the Purdue football program on Mitch is frankly laughable. Also, as far as managing Purdue University, Daniels is doing a great job, IMHO.

I'll check the Internet and if I'm off I will admit it but I recall a meeting with Daniels before he was hired!

 

[ghostoffatjack]

I'll check the Internet and if I'm off I will admit it but I recall a meeting with Daniels before he was hired!

First two articles I pulled mentioned telephone calls and meetings with Daniels in December before he was hired! I stand by what I posted!

 

[pboiler18]

Who WONT you blame for this?

 

[lbodel]

And wanting him to, or thinking that he should is a good idea is just stupid.

I'm going to post this and not read the thread anymore cause I know it will ignite a firestorm of conservatives. But it's funny that from our previous President to the current President - not much is really different in terms of how they handle athletics. Yet one was blamed left and right for "not caring about sports, doesn't care if we lose, etc" while the football team stunk and the other "knows their boundaries, doesn't need to worry about athletics, needs to focus on academics, etc." while the football team stinks.

It's funny.

 

[DrJez]

Perspective! Get some! It's football. It really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. Yes, Purdue sucks. Yes, Hazell sucks. Why that should stop you investing in Purdue? Spend your money on things that actually matter, like Purdue's cancer center. Stop propping up the inept athletics department. Gain some perspective.

 

[pboiler18]

I'm going to post this and not read the thread anymore cause I know it will ignite a firestorm of conservatives. But it's funny that from our previous President to the current President - not much is really different in terms of how they handle athletics. Yet one was blamed left and right for "not caring about sports, doesn't care if we lose, etc" while the football team stunk and the other "knows their boundaries, doesn't need to worry about athletics, needs to focus on academics, etc." while the football team stinks.

It's funny.

This x1000. People just want to scapegoat somebody for this.

When Hazell doesn't fire Shoop it's his fault and when Burke won't fire Hazell it's his fault and when Daniels won't fire Burke it's his fault and then when the BOT won't fire Daniels because the football team sucks it's their fault.

Then there you are, blaming people who are not and should not be responsible for our football team for our football team.

It's ridiculous....but look at the OP. Been a long time since he's posted something sensical about Purdue football.

 

[BeerbellyBoiler]

Yes all above is true. The first domino to fall should be Shoop. Hazell won't fire him so either Burke fire him or let both go. If Burke won't man up then that is where Mitch Daniels must step in and clean the entire house.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Yes all above is true. The first domino to fall should be Shoop. Hazell won't fire him so either Burke fire him or let both go. If Burke won't man up then that is where Mitch Daniels must step in and clean the entire house.

But again, do you really want Burke committing $12-$15 million to another football coach of his choice, after his last 2 picks were arguably the worst coaches in Purdue football history?

 

[pboiler18]

But again, do you really want Burke committing $12-$15 million to another football coach of his choice, after his last 2 picks were arguably the worst coaches in Purdue football history?

Who was Burke supposed to pick before? The only guys who were still on the board at the point we hired Hazell weren't great options either. We ponied up and paid market value and made a bad choice.

That said, there are a lot of other reasons this Purdue team is bad and building a winner in football is hard here in Indianathat have nothing to do with the coach or AD.

We needed a total rebuild after Hope and still need the same exact rebuild 3 years later. I think about it like Purdue football has been on a 3 year progress pause and the next step forward is a good hire away. That said, what is the next AD going to do that Burke wouldn't? Burke vetted Hazell. As he'll do with the next guy. He just made a bad choice. How many people at the time he was hired thought Hazell was a bad choice? It was not many.

I still think Purdue is an OC with a pulse away from 6-6... And I think that applies even for this team.

Obviously the damage is done for this year, but as soon as Shoop is gone, this team will get better

 

[SDBoiler1]

Who was Burke supposed to pick before? The only guys who were still on the board at the point we hired Hazell weren't great options either. We ponied up and paid market value and made a bad choice.

That said, there are a lot of other reasons this Purdue team is bad and building a winner in football is hard here in Indianathat have nothing to do with the coach or AD.

We needed a total rebuild after Hope and still need the same exact rebuild 3 years later. I think about it like Purdue football has been on a 3 year progress pause and the next step forward is a good hire away. That said, what is the next AD going to do that Burke wouldn't? Burke vetted Hazell. As he'll do with the next guy. He just made a bad choice. How many people at the time he was hired thought Hazell was a bad choice? It was not many.

I still think Purdue is an OC with a pulse away from 6-6... And I think that applies even for this team.

Obviously the damage is done for this year, but as soon as Shoop is gone, this team will get better

While I think this is probably true, what makes you think that Hazell will make a good choice for a new OC? He chose Shoop and he also chose Hudson. Both were retread coordinators and both have basically done poor jobs. Hudson's defenses have been 12th or lower in scoring defense and ypg allowed, I believe, since he came to Purdue.

 

[JohnHoosierr]

The program was off the rails long before Daniel's took over.

Tiller was the last coach with meaningful success, but that was largely due to Brees and the gimmicky offense.

Tiller wasn't successful because of Brees or a gimmicky offense. He was successful because he was good at many different aspects of coaching. One of them being able to identify diamonds in the rough such as brees.

 

[Inspector100]

Tiller wasn't successful because of Brees or a gimmicky offense. He was successful because he was good at many different aspects of coaching. One of them being able to identify diamonds in the rough such as brees.

Tiller was good because he had a supporting staff of coaches that had been with him for several seasons at Wyoming. That staff had great chemistry and fit in well with the infrastructure at Purdue during that time. Remember, we went to the Alamo Bowl that first year and beat easily a team from Oklahoma State that was considered superior to our Boilers. Yes, Joe was good at many different aspects of coaching. But he was not able to keep that high level when that staff broke up. Too bad this staff isn't good like the one Joe brought in.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Who was Burke supposed to pick before? The only guys who were still on the board at the point we hired Hazell weren't great options either. We ponied up and paid market value and made a bad choice.

That said, there are a lot of other reasons this Purdue team is bad and building a winner in football is hard here in Indianathat have nothing to do with the coach or AD.

We needed a total rebuild after Hope and still need the same exact rebuild 3 years later. I think about it like Purdue football has been on a 3 year progress pause and the next step forward is a good hire away. That said, what is the next AD going to do that Burke wouldn't? Burke vetted Hazell. As he'll do with the next guy. He just made a bad choice. How many people at the time he was hired thought Hazell was a bad choice? It was not many.

I still think Purdue is an OC with a pulse away from 6-6... And I think that applies even for this team.

Obviously the damage is done for this year, but as soon as Shoop is gone, this team will get better

Wow. You have just been wrong at every turn this season. After the Marshall game you swore up and down we had a "physical running game" with our "veteran offensive line". And you somehow thought appleby was still the guy after that awful display.

And now you think Shoop is somehow running an offense that hazell disapproves of, and that our defense somehow doesn't suck every bit as much as our offense. I saw Minnesota obliterate our defense in person, and Minnesota isn't any good.

As far as Burke, it's his job to find and hire good football coaches, and he failed miserably, twice in a row. There were plenty of coaches better than Hope or Hazell, that would have come to Purdue. Problem is, as Tiller said, he's not a football guy, and really has no idea what he's looking for.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result.

 

[pboiler18]

Wow. You have just been wrong at every turn this season. After the Marshall game you swore up and down we had a "physical running game" with our "veteran offensive line". And you somehow thought appleby was still the guy after that awful display.

And now you think Shoop is somehow running an offense that hazell disapproves of, and that our defense somehow doesn't suck every bit as much as our offense. I saw Minnesota obliterate our defense in person, and Minnesota isn't any good.

As far as Burke, it's his job to find and hire good football coaches, and he failed miserably, twice in a row. There were plenty of coaches better than Hope or Hazell, that would have come to Purdue. Problem is, as Tiller said, he's not a football guy, and really has no idea what he's looking for.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result.

I still think we have a good run game.

I never said once this year that I thought AA was the guy. Ever. In fact, I said that he cost us that game...which he did.

Sorry, D isn't as bad as the O. D has been hung out to dry a lot by the terrible offense. Can't expect the D to have to get 15stops a game. Even great defenses aren't expected to do that.

We are also down 3 of our top 5 LBs. that has A LOT to do with our struggles. The DL played VERY well this week and a few times throughout the season.

Again, I don't think the unit is great...but it's good enough to get us to a bowl....the offense on the other hand. Nope.

 

[pboiler18]

These units don't play in vaccums. A lack of success on one side of the ball directly effects the success of the other side.

You do realize the D only gave up 10 points before half the past 2 weeks right? Then once they were dead tired, got it taken to them, while they got little time to rest as the offense went 3 and out.

 

[GenevaSteve]

It is sad, rather that Hazell was a success. We have some good coaches but as a group they have not developed a program that can be competitive. I am from Chicagoland so Shoop was always a ? to me but when they were hired, as a group, I thought we had taken a very positive step. I was there with Keyes and Phipps and Fat Jack. Ranked in the top 10 first three years (at some point), beat ND and the cry was "Fire Fat Jack" because we always found a way to lose a game. How times have changed.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

I still think we have a good run game.

I never said once this year that I thought AA was the guy. Ever. In fact, I said that he cost us that game...which he did.

Sorry, D isn't as bad as the O. D has been hung out to dry a lot by the terrible offense. Can't expect the D to have to get 15stops a game. Even great defenses aren't expected to do that.

We are also down 3 of our top 5 LBs. that has A LOT to do with our struggles. The DL played VERY well this week and a few times throughout the season.

Again, I don't think the unit is great...but it's good enough to get us to a bowl....the offense on the other hand. Nope.

Haha, 2 yards per carry yesterday, very impressive.

Injuries and being tired are no excuse - that's why you recruit lots of good players, so you have depth. Losing 2 starters on defense isn't that big of a deal.

 

[pboiler18]

Haha, 2 yards per carry yesterday, very impressive.

Injuries and being tired are no excuse - that's why you recruit lots of good players, so you have depth. Losing 2 starters on defense isn't that big of a deal.

Yup, let's recruit like Ohio State!

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Yup, let's recruit like Ohio State!

Strawman says ouch.

Last in rushing in the B1G by the way.

 

[pboiler18]

Strawman says ouch.

Last in rushing in the B1G by the way.

Which is why our OC will be fired....and most likely our head coach.

Even Tiller's teams struggled with depth on D. Don't know what you're expecting when your offense holds the ball for only 20 minutes in a game. D got us off the field A LOT on Saturday. AND were down 3 of the top 5 LBs. Yeah, we could have played better on D but you have to score points to win football games.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Which is why our OC will be fired....and most likely our head coach.

Even Tiller's teams struggled with depth on D. Don't know what you're expecting when your offense holds the ball for only 20 minutes in a game. D got us off the field A LOT on Saturday. AND were down 3 of the top 5 LBs. Yeah, we could have played better on D but you have to score points to win football games.

Wouldn't our running game that you like so much help the offense chew up clock and stay on the field?

No pass rush, missing tons of tackles, and giving receivers 10 yard cushions on 3rd and 7 might contribute to our defense being on the field so long also.