How many lies will the Pelosi's, Schumer's, and Water's tell and how far will they go...

[BoilerMadness]

I don't see the future of a Republic looking very bright..and none of this is aimed at BuilderBob or anyone for that matter. We have a crooked media ( we know that from debate questions all the way to Dan Rather lies for starters). We have a lot of circular referencing where there is nothing new but each one puts forth the others writings as though they were true in the first writing. " you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it, and you will even come to believe it yourself.

• Attributed to Goebbels in Publications Relating to Various Aspects of Communism (1946), by United States Congress, House Committee on Un-American Activities, Issues 1-15, p. 19, no reliable source has been located, and this is probably simply a further variation of the Big Lie idea
• Variants:
• If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it.
• If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth.
• If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.
• If you repeat a lie long enough, it becomes truth.
• If you repeat a lie many times, people are bound to start believing it.

We have little independent writing and an abundance of information that may be more technical than absorbed by many. Thinking is quite simply something amiss in the masses. It is hard to be so busy and to stay on top of things...possibly drawing bad conclusions.

I tend to believe that MOST people on both sides of the aisle are good people, but somehow derive so completely different views on how to get to the same place on many things. It is fascinating and frustrating at the same time for many I'm sure...and I haven't seen the country so torn as it has for the last 10 years since Vietnam.

Tangential...but quite common to venture into a public setting and see the physical appearance as lazy as the mental appearance at times. People can't get out of their pajamas or find a bar of soap every few days appearing to have run into a trout line a few dozen times..not the most astute people for sure...and they breed at a much faster rate. Was it a huge orgy where no selective breeding took place? I say this knowing that each human deserves some dignity, but why can't some put one foot in front of another and try? Anyway, I can't be too positive about what I see. I'm not talking about poor people...a bar of soap isn't much. I'm talking about people that care little about themselves and the country...only what feels good today.

This forum..with both sides have people that are passionate about things outside themselves and THAT is good. I just wish that more people cared about things of substance (like all do in this forum) and then we would have a much more intelligent voter...WHICH this country depends on AND what should be one of the most important goals of K-12 .

Excellent post!

A desire for instant gratification, short attention spans, a sense of entitlement and a feeling that you are the center of the Universe are contributing factors to our decline. We have an "It's all about me" society now, which makes a lot of people want to "get theirs" and not really consider how it impacts anyone else. A lot of the values that us old farts learned growing up just aren't being taught by parents anymore. Hopefully, people will wake up before things get too far out of hand.

 

[BuilderBob6]

I can back up my opinions with facts, if that matters.

MSM is the label for the major networks - ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, and MSNBC. It also includes the major newspapers like NYT, LATimes, Washington Post, Chicago Tribune, etc., which all lean to the Left.(some harder than others).

FOX, talk radio and the Conservative sites that you mention are the alternative, but they're the new kids on the block. Fox news was started about 22 years ago. Conservative talk radio probably preceded that by a decade. The Conservative websites I know nothing about, since I haven't bothered to look at them.

The Left had the monopoly on swaying public opinion for a long time and they still do in large part, since they have denigrated FOX, since their inception. I believe that's what has me gravitating to the Right, because the Left is so intolerant of opinions differing from their own. Look at our college campuses, which should be the bastions of freedom of thought and exposing people to a wide array of perspectives, yet Conservative speakers are demonized by faculties and students and not allowed to speak on many campuses. What are they afraid of? When you're indoctrinating young minds, you don't want them to actually start thinking outside their little Leftist box. So much for freedom of speech...

Facts matter.

I said the major networks are liberal to one degree or another, you're not breaking any new ground here. Cable "news" rules the day, not much indoctrination happening in the half hour evening news on ABC, NBC, or CBS. It sounds better for your argument when you have greater numbers but they are doing actual hard news, not commentary like cable news.

What difference does it make if FOX is the new kid? THEY GET THE BEST RATINGS. More people watch them. Dobbs and Hannity talk to Trump regularly.....hell Trump appears on and calls in to their morning show!!!! They are no longer the new guy, the underdog, the representatives of the ignored masses.........they are now mainstream. I get that you/they enjoy acting like you're some kind of oppressed freedom fighters rebelling against the man but it's just not the case anymore. The victim card in this case had been torn to pieces.

"Denigrated FOX" ?!!!!!!! Hello? The president abuses the news channels that criticize him literally on a daily basis. Again, FOX is not the abused puppy anymore. Get over it.

I don't agree with students not allowing conservative speakers to speak on campuses. They are arguing against the very rights they are exercising.
College campuses have always been liberal as long as I can remember, no surprise there. In our hyper partisan society, they are going too far. Happening way too much on both sides.

 

[SDBoiler1]

I like Cuomo a lot. He asks tough questions no matter who it is.

I don't know how one dislikes Hannity but loves Trump. Hannity may be his closest advisor. They say the same things, Hannity can just get away with being more outrageous.

Figures you would watch the Communist News Network (CNN).

 

[BoilerJS]

I like Cuomo a lot. He asks tough questions no matter who it is.

I don't know how one dislikes Hannity but loves Trump. Hannity may be his closest advisor. They say the same things, Hannity can just get away with being more outrageous.

I think O'Rielly was the best Fox news anchor. To bad he messed up.
Hannity is pro-pro conservative and I agree with what he says. However he is like a soap opera, you can watch it once a year and not miss anything.
And what investigative reporting has Maddow done?
Her investigative reporting, as an example, would be: Donald Trump was caught looking at a National Geographic back in 6th grade. Per a source close to the situation.

 

[miksta]

Care to elaborate or is this a drive by shooting?

You just classified an entire generation of people as being lazy, by making lazy observations.

 

[BuilderBob6]

I think O'Rielly was the best Fox news anchor. To bad he messed up.
Hannity is pro-pro conservative and I agree with what he says. However he is like a soap opera, you can watch it once a year and not miss anything.
And what investigative reporting has Maddow done?
Her investigative reporting, as an example, would be: Donald Trump was caught looking at a National Geographic back in 6th grade. Per a source close to the situation.

I don't watch Maddow, at all.

 

[BoilerMadness]

Facts matter.

I said the major networks are liberal to one degree or another, you're not breaking any new ground here. Cable "news" rules the day, not much indoctrination happening in the half hour evening news on ABC, NBC, or CBS. It sounds better for your argument when you have greater numbers but they are doing actual hard news, not commentary like cable news.

What difference does it make if FOX is the new kid? THEY GET THE BEST RATINGS. More people watch them. Dobbs and Hannity talk to Trump regularly.....hell Trump appears on and calls in to their morning show!!!! They are no longer the new guy, the underdog, the representatives of the ignored masses.........they are now mainstream. I get that you/they enjoy acting like you're some kind of oppressed freedom fighters rebelling against the man but it's just not the case anymore. The victim card in this case had been torn to pieces.

"Denigrated FOX" ?!!!!!!! Hello? The president abuses the news channels that criticize him literally on a daily basis. Again, FOX is not the abused puppy anymore. Get over it.

I don't agree with students not allowing conservative speakers to speak on campuses. They are arguing against the very rights they are exercising.
College campuses have always been liberal as long as I can remember, no surprise there. In our hyper partisan society, they are going too far. Happening way too much on both sides.

The network news ABC, CBS and NBC are allegedly doing "hard news", but they manipulate the news in such a way as to promote their ideology or agenda. As I said, NBC editing the 911 call to make George Zimmerman appear to be a racist is not reporting "hard news". It's dishonest and disreputable, yet people believe the stuff they put on the air. Additionally, these networks tend to not report on stories, that make "their side" look bad. Apparently, that's OK to you. I view it with a lot of skepticism.

The point I was trying to make about FOX being the new kid and being denigrated, related to the other networks having conditioned their audiences for many decades to believe the Liberal spin as being truth. Then FOX came into existence. Immediately, the other networks attacked FOX, (obviously trying to protect their market share) by saying that everything that FOX said was lies. Sadly, I hear that mantra from many Leftist drones that have probably never watched a minute of FOX News. Apparently, the indoctrination is working.

FOX gets the best ratings, because they actually give you both sides of the argument. Virtually every show on FOX has Liberal contributors that discuss the issues and give their view of things. I don't see both sides presented much, if ever, on the other networks.

The networks fired the first shots at Trump and they were surprised that he returned fire with the volume and intensity that he did. They opened that can of worms and I have no sympathy for them. Their arrogance has cost them a lot of credibility.

 

[BoilerMadness]

You just classified an entire generation of people as being lazy, by making lazy observations.

Valid point. I should have said "some" millennials rather than lumping them all together..

 

[tjreese]

Excellent post!

A desire for instant gratification, short attention spans, a sense of entitlement and a feeling that you are the center of the Universe are contributing factors to our decline. We have an "It's all about me" society now, which makes a lot of people want to "get theirs" and not really consider how it impacts anyone else. A lot of the values that us old farts learned growing up just aren't being taught by parents anymore. Hopefully, people will wake up before things get too far out of hand.

Damnit...you opened the door and so I'll step up on the box for a minute. I do think this is more prevalent than years ago, but sure some will disagree. When you and I were younger we were taught that the teacher was the "Sage on the STAGE" with teacher directed classrooms. The expectation was that the teacher would transmit knowledge and we as students were expected to learn it. Those were "teacher directed schools"!!! Ed skool does not push that today, nor has for sometime. The Sage on the STage is OUT and today it is all about the "Guide on the Side"...which was the basis for a national policy adviser discussing with me in a forum "WHY" teacher knowledge was not as important. (review discovery learning for grins)

What you see is an authority figure losing a pecking order and the emphasis being shifted towards the child. I'm not saying that every classroom in every school does this....but the philosophy moves that direction. When you see schools having mission statements that align with "child-centered" schools you can be assured that at least sometime that philosophy was or currently is at play. There is a whole host of pedagogical theories resting on the "affective-cognitive" (self esteem essentially) thought even though data shows them to not be effective and actually having some student regress. Project Follow Through had some nice graphs on this (See Bonnie Grossen (sp?)

http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~adiep/ft/151toc.htm

from Oregon on this I believe..or another nice article was Project Follow Through...why didn't we?

http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~adiep/ft/watkins.htm

Been too long for me to remember all of these.

Anyway, I think the expectations, individuality are diminished (lots of group work) and the herd is elevated and quite frankly we have a lot of inflated egos. Well that was really quick into a deep area, but I really don't have the time and others don't have the interest to see. We must ask...what can cause what we see in so many..is it the water...is it the air? What common thing "could" have an effect on so many?

 

[tjreese]

I don't watch Maddow, at all.

"Mad Cow"

 

[BoilerMadness]

Damnit...you opened the door and so I'll step up on the box for a minute. I do think this is more prevalent than years ago, but sure some will disagree. When you and I were younger we were taught that the teacher was the "Sage on the STAGE" with teacher directed classrooms. The expectation was that the teacher would transmit knowledge and we as students were expected to learn it. Those were "teacher directed schools"!!! Ed skool does not push that today, nor has for sometime. The Sage on the STage is OUT and today it is all about the "Guide on the Side"...which was the basis for a national policy adviser discussing with me in a forum "WHY" teacher knowledge was not as important. (review discovery learning for grins)

What you see is an authority figure losing a pecking order and the emphasis being shifted towards the child. I'm not saying that every classroom in every school does this....but the philosophy moves that direction. When you see schools having mission statements that align with "child-centered" schools you can be assured that at least sometime that philosophy was or currently is at play. There is a whole host of pedagogical theories resting on the "affective-cognitive" (self esteem essentially) thought even though data shows them to not be effective and actually having some student regress. Project Follow Through had some nice graphs on this (See Bonnie Grossen (sp?)

http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~adiep/ft/151toc.htm

from Oregon on this I believe..or another nice article was Project Follow Through...why didn't we?

http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~adiep/ft/watkins.htm

Been too long for me to remember all of these.

Anyway, I think the expectations, individuality are diminished (lots of group work) and the herd is elevated and quite frankly we have a lot of inflated egos. Well that was really quick into a deep area, but I really don't have the time and others don't have the interest to see. We must ask...what can cause what we see in so many..is it the water...is it the air? What common thing "could" have an effect on so many?

I believe it's Political Correctness run wild.

On a positive note, I just saw a poll that indicated that 63% of the country thought that PC has gone too far.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

I believe it's Political Correctness run wild.

On a positive note, I just saw a poll that indicated that 63% of the country thought that PC has gone too far.

But....the majority of that 63% will simply sit on their ass and do nothing about because they fear being called racists.

 

[PurdueFan1]

Facts matter.

I said the major networks are liberal to one degree or another, you're not breaking any new ground here. Cable "news" rules the day, not much indoctrination happening in the half hour evening news on ABC, NBC, or CBS. It sounds better for your argument when you have greater numbers but they are doing actual hard news, not commentary like cable news.

What difference does it make if FOX is the new kid? THEY GET THE BEST RATINGS. More people watch them. Dobbs and Hannity talk to Trump regularly.....hell Trump appears on and calls in to their morning show!!!! They are no longer the new guy, the underdog, the representatives of the ignored masses.........they are now mainstream. I get that you/they enjoy acting like you're some kind of oppressed freedom fighters rebelling against the man but it's just not the case anymore. The victim card in this case had been torn to pieces.

"Denigrated FOX" ?!!!!!!! Hello? The president abuses the news channels that criticize him literally on a daily basis. Again, FOX is not the abused puppy anymore. Get over it.

I don't agree with students not allowing conservative speakers to speak on campuses. They are arguing against the very rights they are exercising.
College campuses have always been liberal as long as I can remember, no surprise there. In our hyper partisan society, they are going too far. Happening way too much on both sides.

The network news ABC, CBS and NBC are allegedly doing "hard news", but they manipulate the news in such a way as to promote their ideology or agenda. As I said, NBC editing the 911 call to make George Zimmerman appear to be a racist is not reporting "hard news". It's dishonest and disreputable, yet people believe the stuff they put on the air. Additionally, these networks tend to not report on stories, that make "their side" look bad. Apparently, that's OK to you. I view it with a lot of skepticism.

The point I was trying to make about FOX being the new kid and being denigrated, related to the other networks having conditioned their audiences for many decades to believe the Liberal spin as being truth. Then FOX came into existence. Immediately, the other networks attacked FOX, (obviously trying to protect their market share) by saying that everything that FOX said was lies. Sadly, I hear that mantra from many Leftist drones that have probably never watched a minute of FOX News. Apparently, the indoctrination is working.

FOX gets the best ratings, because they actually give you both sides of the argument. Virtually every show on FOX has Liberal contributors that discuss the issues and give their view of things. I don't see both sides presented much, if ever, on the other networks.

The networks fired the first shots at Trump and they were surprised that he returned fire with the volume and intensity that he did. They opened that can of worms and I have no sympathy for them. Their arrogance has cost them a lot of credibility.

Do you work for Fox? This is one of the biggest suck job posts on here, good god.

 

[BoilerBiker]

I don't see the future of a Republic looking very bright..
...
I just wish that more people cared about things of substance (like all do in this forum) and then we would have a much more intelligent voter...WHICH this country depends on AND what should be one of the most important goals of K-12 .

as an optimistic counter argument:

successive generations have said the same - the next generation or two will lead to our demise. someday they may be right. but here we still are. sure there can be steps back, dips & valleys - but we prevail over time. looking at the big picture rather than recent years, sheds a great light on our country's changes and success.

that seems like a positive testament to our system, rather than a negative.
I'm not a fan of growing government and the state intervening which we continue to see. but I believe we will continue to collectively counter and adapt, continue on the path of advancing further.

https://www.theatlantic.com/busines...e-fleeing-tv-as-a-main-source-of-news/278781/

I do not think that young people [18-29] are getting their news from TV. In fact, according to this article, the internet is the main source of news for those under 50. I have not watched the news on American TV for over a decade but I do watch TV news occasionally when I am in Europe.

solid point regarding the decline in tv. online is great for the consumer to have many more choices vs older, limited platforms.

these changes in media provide a good example how our system allows for competition & advancement over time.
(the concerns of media being too liberal leads to the rise of conservative tv: fox becoming most popular, arrival of OAN, Sinclair taking over 200+ abc/cbs/nbc/fox stations. the overall advancement from print->radio->tv->online)

 

[tjreese]

I believe it's Political Correctness run wild.

On a positive note, I just saw a poll that indicated that 63% of the country thought that PC has gone too far.

Well, apparently they may have missed the first shift hitting that snooze, but maybe on time for the second shift?

 

[tjreese]

as an optimistic counter argument:

successive generations have said the same - the next generation or two will lead to our demise. someday they may be right. but here we still are. sure there can be steps back, dips & valleys - but we prevail over time. looking at the big picture rather than recent years, sheds a great light on our country's changes and success.

perhaps...I hope you are right. I was fully aware that it has been said before. Things are changing more rapidly than years ago. Technology has a way of providing not only new avenues for productivity, but many times there are social issues that are new. Quite frankly...I do wonder what you do with all the people and less shovel jobs, but that can doesn't need opened in this thread.

 

[joe for prez]

It's not that the "conspiracies" weren't true, it's that the Obama Justice Department and Obama were complicit in the scandals, hence the move to cover them up versus investigate them. You do realize that it was Obama's Justice Department that was in charge of the investigations?

Benghazi - 4 people died due to a terrorist attack, yet for weeks after the event Susan Rice, Hillary and Obama blamed it on a video and a spontaneous reaction from the locals. They didn't want to have people talking about terrorist attacks a few weeks before Obama's election, since he had assured us that Al Qaeda was dead. This is where you have to use your brain and not just rely on the MSM's wagon circling reports.

Based on the assessments of many senior military personnel, this was an organized attack, from several directions using AK-47s and RPGs, which wouldn't be prevalent in a "spontaneous" attack. To further shoot holes in the cover story, Hillary texted her daughter that Benghazi had been attacked by terrorists, while it was happening and she had also sent the same message to the Prime Minister of Egypt the next morning. Yet, when she met the families of the deceased, she perpetuated the video myth.

Taking it a step further, the Brits pulled their people out of Benghazi prior to the attack, because they deemed it unsafe. Our Ambassador asked for additional security from Hillary and was denied. Our people should have been removed to safety, but Obama didn't like the optics of closing an Embassy right before the election due to terror threats. Tell me again how much Hillary and Obama care about our people.

IRS - There were over 300 Conservative groups that had been denied/delayed tax exempt status for several years. I believe there were about a dozen Leftist groups that had been denied because the didn't meet the criteria.

Hillary's Emails - So many laws broken and no accountability. First you have to ask yourself why did Hillary feel the need to have her own private server and why would she store highly classified material on an unsecure server, when she knows that's against the law? Was she perhaps trying to dodge the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) to avoid accountability for her actions? That's really the only plausible explanation.

Hillary deleted 30K emails that had been subpoenaed by Congress. That's a felony.
Hillary and her closest aids destroyed their phones after the investigation was started. Obstruction of justice, destroying evidence? Both felonies.
Comey wrote her exoneration letter a month before she was interviewed by the FBI. Peter Strzok was the lead investigator on the Hillary E-mail scandal and he was a Hillary fanboy and hated Trump. 5 of Hillary's closest aids had their laptops destroyed by the FBI and received immunity. You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to see that the fix was in to protect Hillary. Obama had to protect her to keep his legacy intact and to keep her from turning on him.

It's interesting to see that Peter Strzok was also the lead investigator on the Trump Russian Collusion case.

If you were the least bit objective, you could see that there is a ton of evidence against Hillary for committing multiple felonies and no charges were brought against her, yet the same people are trying to bring down Trump based on a fake Dossier funded by Hillary's campaign. Of course, you'll rationalize away all the facts and believe what the MSM tells you.

Uranium One has been debunked in the MSM, but it's never been fully investigated, nor has the Clinton Foundation. Just because Morning Joe and the other Leftist talking heads say that there is nothing to see here, it's probably more that they don't want you to look there, than there isn't really anything there.

Interesting that none of the hard leftists on here want to counter these points

 

[boilerjohn]

Boilermadness.....

Interesting that none of the hard leftists on here want to counter these points

I was thinking the same exact thing...Boilermadness...thank you for putting in works what most of us think!

 

[lbodel]

in their attempt to discredit our next SCOTUS member who was hired by SCOTUS Justice Kagan.

Will they go after his family?
Will they go after his religion?
Will they go after his activism working with kids in sports and tutoring?
Will they shadow him, his wife, and his kids every move?
Will they actually go after his kids to get to him?

What will they do and how far will they go in a losing attempt to keep a decent and fair constitutionalist off the SC to keep their hold on a court filled with legislative justices?

But you don't think Trump - our president - lies about important things, right?

 

[TopSecretBoiler]

We'll see what happens. Mcconnell took things to an unprecedented territory by denying Garland a hearing and then blowing up the 60 vote threshold. It's about time Democrats start fighting back. They act like the right is going to act in good faith and then they get railroaded, it's time to fight just as dirty as the right does.

did you just start following politics in 2016? The revisionist history on this board is astounding.

 

[indy35]

did you just start following politics in 2016? The revisionist history on this board is astounding.

Not at all, I've been aware of the right's vile tactics since the 80's, I've had to read up on what they did prior to that. Didn't live through things like the Southern Strategy but have researched it enough to fully understand it.