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How is Zo...

*4purdue*

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May 6, 2008
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landing top 10 recruits where ever he goes & CMP only has 1 in 13 years? Don't tell me Purdue is inferior to Mizzu & Cal.
 
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Yep, but it's been established that Crean, with the IU brand behind him, was a good recruiter.

You appear to be unconvinced Painter is either a good coach or recruiter. So how did he win the Big Ten by two games?
I said, if anything, his recruiting skills are ahead of his coaching skills. I've never complained about the players he's landed... though I get tired of the excuse that Purdue can't land 5* players. Zo has shown that any program has that ability... thus the point of the thread. With 3 NBA bigs over 2 years, I would hope 1 B1G regular season championship would be the floor...
 
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both players you're referencing are brothers, and Zo put their Dad on staff. I like Zo but that's playing in the world of Pitino and R Williams as far as doing anything to win. Those kids were going to whoever hired their Dad, they just happen to be from Missouri and Zo is looking to jumpstart the program.
 
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CMP has not lit the world on fire as a coach... if anything, I'd say his recruiting skill are better than his coaching skills....
And now we know to not take you seriously.

Please show me where Zo is above Painter on this list:

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I said, if anything, his recruiting skills are ahead of his coaching skills. I've never complained about the players he's landed... though I get tired of the excuse that Purdue can't land 5* players. Zo has shown that any program has that ability... thus the point of the thread. With 3 NBA bigs over 2 years, I would hope 1 B1G regular season championship would be the floor...

I strongly disagree CMP's recruiting skill is above his coaching. He is an excellent coach, and the lists above show that.

If I would have to evaluate CMP's weaknesses.... it is his inability to lock down a few recruits from Indiana on a regular basis, as well as land more top 40 guys(especially when they are right here in Indiana).

However, to his credit CMP has shown great ability to expand recruiting boundaries & recruit on a midwest & national basis lately as an example bringing in guys like DM, VE, CE & Haas, Eastern, Wheeler, etc..
 
I believe we should refer to that recent Painter interview . Painter recruits the players he wants to recruit rather than every 5 star player that's out there in the world. Painter is concerned about more things than just a player's ranking. Perhaps that is why his coaching record is successful. Zo, on the other hand recruits talent that doesn't always mesh together resulting in a poorer coaching record.
 
I strongly disagree CMP's recruiting skill is above his coaching. He is an excellent coach, and the lists above show that.

If I would have to evaluate CMP's weaknesses.... it is his inability to lock down a few recruits from Indiana on a regular basis, as well as land more top 40 guys(especially when they are right here in Indiana).

However, to his credit CMP has shown great ability to expand recruiting boundaries & recruit on a midwest & national basis lately as an example bringing in guys like DM, VE, CE & Haas, Eastern, Wheeler, etc..
Exactly right. To reach the level CMP has with NCAA appearances means you are winning a lot of games and you don't win that amount of games if you aren't a very good coach.

These threads that try and rub against that are just factually incorrect and the list I linked proves it.
 
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CMP is good coach 7.5/10. Average recruiter 5/10. I think you need a 7+/10 average on both to make the final four if not counting luck. I'm waiting to make my final judgement. I think he got three left on his contract.
 
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I believe we should refer to that recent Painter interview . Painter recruits the players he wants to recruit rather than every 5 star player that's out there in the world. Painter is concerned about more things than just a player's ranking. Perhaps that is why his coaching record is successful. Zo, on the other hand recruits talent that doesn't always mesh together resulting in a poorer coaching record.

Locally here in Indiana....While that is a nice narative....I can not think of any 4 & 5 star guys from Indiana CMP did not recruit to some degree. Now there are examples where he backed off after recruiting awhile like JaQuan Lyle that might fit the story line. But for the most part, he has recruited every 4 & 5 star Indiana born guy to some degree. Guys like Kyle Guy, Joey Brunk, Kris Wilkes, Paul Scuggs, Tevon Bluiett and Jared Jackson(etc) he recruited to some degree. So while that is a nice narrative, CMP does recruit the 4&5 star guys here in Indiana.....he just does not land that many of them. To me this, local Indiana recruiting with the 4 & 5 star guys is the main area of his recruiting he & his staff needs to improve. He is just flat out pretty good elsewhere in what he does.
 
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Zo coached and recruited under Coach Painter at Purdue. No 5 star recruits then. We've seen many articles and have even been lucky enough to hear from players parents that Coach Painter recruits for culture and team fit over a me first type. He's also known to be brutally honest rather than crying to a recruit and his family. I'd love a final four, more 5 star recruits and a national championship, but I'm pretty happy with where Painter has this team going.
 
Zo coached and recruited under Coach Painter at Purdue. No 5 star recruits then. We've seen many articles and have even been lucky enough to hear from players parents that Coach Painter recruits for culture and team fit over a me first type. He's also known to be brutally honest rather than crying to a recruit and his family. I'd love a final four, more 5 star recruits and a national championship, but I'm pretty happy with where Painter has this team going.
Good point. Where were his 5 stars when he was recruting for PU. To me there is something to be said about doing things the right way. Do I want national title for Purdue Men's basketball. Of course o do. Not at the cost of selling out though.

My wife went to Kansas and loves basketball in March. That's it, she knows her team is going to be there. It drives me nuts that she will not regonize the difference in programs. I am not going to get into details but we watched a KU game and the player of the game gave an interview. I turned my head and said for the 100th time. Do you think that kid would be admitted to PU. She knows but she is not going to give up what she thinks makes her a better basketball fan.

I am not selling out to win at all cost. I would rather DM miss the go a head game winning shot in the championship game rather except the university is seling out to win.

Leave that to the cheaters of the world. And while I am at it, why does the MSM not understand this. I know why, money.
 
CMP is good coach 7.5/10. Average recruiter 5/10. I think you need a 7+/10 average on both to make the final four if not counting luck. I'm waiting to make my final judgement. I think he got three left on his contract.
I think if you check the class rankings of Painter's recent classes, your ranking of 5/10 would seem to underrate his performance. This year's class is second in the BIG, and should have been first had not JJJ changed his mind. Don't know why you understate his recruiting?
 
There are 2 coaches under 50 with >10 NCAA appearances. Everybody loves Sean miller and waits for his final four, painter is two years younger and has same NCAA appearances and final four as miller..people need to take their heads out of the sand and look around the world we actually live in...
 
I think if you check the class rankings of Painter's recent classes, your ranking of 5/10 would seem to underrate his performance. This year's class is second in the BIG, and should have been first had not JJJ changed his mind. Don't know why you understate his recruiting?

i think i've seen that posted here before, but which site lists the '17 class 2nd in the big ten?
i'm seeing

rivals: #5 big ten, 37 overall (updated today. w/o ewing?)
espn: #6 big ten, 40 overall
247: #3 big ten, 28 overall (updated yesterday)
 
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both players you're referencing are brothers, and Zo put their Dad on staff. I like Zo but that's playing in the world of Pitino and R Williams as far as doing anything to win. Those kids were going to whoever hired their Dad, they just happen to be from Missouri and Zo is looking to jumpstart the program.
He also had 2 at Cal
 
Zo coached and recruited under Coach Painter at Purdue. No 5 star recruits then. We've seen many articles and have even been lucky enough to hear from players parents that Coach Painter recruits for culture and team fit over a me first type. He's also known to be brutally honest rather than crying to a recruit and his family. I'd love a final four, more 5 star recruits and a national championship, but I'm pretty happy with where Painter has this team going.
Just means they didn't want to play for CMP. Most kids go to a school because of the coach, not the assistant.
 
USA basketball. Let me say that again USA basketball seems to think very highly of coach Painter.

This is the worst excuse used regularly on this site. Who cares? What if he was brought in as a consultant for the president, or for an NBA team? Both would be impressive on a resume, but neither lead to Final 4's and championships or elite recruiting for Purdue. Good for CMP that USA basketball likes him. Unless it equates to NC's or Final 4's, it doesn't mean much to us as PURDUE fans.

As for winning the B1G last year, he did it by riding one of the top 3 players in college bball. Many average coaches can ride a top 3 player to a league title. Still in 12 years, nothing better than a few sweet 16's and 2 B1G championships. For comparison, recently fired Thad Matta in his first 12 years at OSU had 5 B1G championships, 3 elite 8's (a 4th at X before coming to OSU), 2 Final 4's and a NC runner up. Recently fired Tan Tom, in 3 less years, had the same number of sweet 16 appearances and B1G championships as CMP has had.

But sure, Painter is great, rah rah.
 
i think i've seen that posted here before, but which site lists the '17 class 2nd in the big ten?
i'm seeing

rivals: #5 big ten, 37 overall (updated today. w/o ewing?)
espn: #6 big ten, 40 overall
247: #3 big ten, 28 overall (updated yesterday)

Yea. Not sure why people on here keep on saying we were the #2 rated B1G class in 2017. I guess people tend to believe whatever is in their mind.

I think if you check the class rankings of Painter's recent classes, your ranking of 5/10 would seem to underrate his performance. This year's class is second in the BIG, and should have been first had not JJJ changed his mind. Don't know why you understate his recruiting?

See above. For a top third basketball program in the B1G to finish 3rd-6th recruiting is what you kinda expects and therefore very average. BTW, there's also no consolation prize for finishing 2nd when recruiting someone. You either get him or you don't.
 
i think i've seen that posted here before, but which site lists the '17 class 2nd in the big ten?
i'm seeing

rivals: #5 big ten, 37 overall (updated today. w/o ewing?)
espn: #6 big ten, 40 overall
247: #3 big ten, 28 overall (updated yesterday)
You are correct. I could have sworn I saw 247 rank us 2nd. Sorry about the misinformation. I did not intend to mislead.

I think the variance in ratings is due to some counting the JUCO and some not.
 
landing top 10 recruits where ever he goes & CMP only has 1 in 13 years? Don't tell me Purdue is inferior to Mizzu & Cal.
He gets highly ranked kids but he basically does nothing with them. He's obviously not recruiting the right players or else he'd be winning more. Or he's getting the right guys and is a subpar coach. Stop crying about recruiting rankings and look at the results on the court.
ONCE AGAIN:
Painter: 13 seasons, 10 NCAAT appearances, 290-147 (.664)
Martin: 9 seasons, 2 NCAAT appearances, 186-121 (.606)
 
Most kids go to a school because of the coach, not the assistant.
Link please to support your exaggeration?

I'd bet my house that you and every other person that uses the phrase 'most kids', have no earthly idea why one recruit chooses a school.

Look at MSU as an example, Fife has been credited for getting more than a couple recruits there so please stop spreading your nonsense.
 
This is the worst excuse used regularly on this site. Who cares? What if he was brought in as a consultant for the president, or for an NBA team? Both would be impressive on a resume, but neither lead to Final 4's and championships or elite recruiting for Purdue. Good for CMP that USA basketball likes him. Unless it equates to NC's or Final 4's, it doesn't mean much to us as PURDUE fans.

As for winning the B1G last year, he did it by riding one of the top 3 players in college bball. Many average coaches can ride a top 3 player to a league title. Still in 12 years, nothing better than a few sweet 16's and 2 B1G championships. For comparison, recently fired Thad Matta in his first 12 years at OSU had 5 B1G championships, 3 elite 8's (a 4th at X before coming to OSU), 2 Final 4's and a NC runner up. Recently fired Tan Tom, in 3 less years, had the same number of sweet 16 appearances and B1G championships as CMP has had.

But sure, Painter is great, rah rah.
So wait a sec, using your best players is now a bad thing? The rest of your statement about an average coach can ride top 3 players to a league title is just so ridiculous I am literally left with nothing to say.

I mean you should feel embarrassed for posting such a ridiculous statement. I have little doubt that if things were reversed you be using this against CMP faster than the speed of light.

I knew you haters were narrow minded and naive, but this is a whole new level of ridiculousness.
 
He gets highly ranked kids but he basically does nothing with them. He's obviously not recruiting the right players or else he'd be winning more. Or he's getting the right guys and is a subpar coach. Stop crying about recruiting rankings and look at the results on the court.
ONCE AGAIN:
Painter: 13 seasons, 10 NCAAT appearances, 290-147 (.664)
Martin: 9 seasons, 2 NCAAT appearances, 186-121 (.606)

It's because he hires their family members over assistants that can actually provide what he needs. Zo isn't a very good coach. He doesn't prepare his kids and he also has struggled with those top ranked kids being very selfish and not buying in. No leadership and loyalty from his players. Mizzou will be very good. He is bringing in both Porters and that other 4 star kid. They are rookies so they will make mistakes, but they all had connections and played together so atleast 3/5ths of his starters will be on the same page even as freshman. He was really smart by hiring Porter Sr, but he will pay for it by losing as assistant coach that can help fill the voids in his coaching game. This will likely be Zos best shot at a deep run. If he fails to do something this year and will be a testimant to his ability to coach. Purdue would happily welcome him back as an assistant though!!
 
Didn't you start this thread complaining about recruiting?
CMP has done a good job getting the talent we have, but to get to a FF, we need to have 5* talent on the team. 1 player in 13 years I find kind of odd, when Zo has had 4 in the last few years at schools no better than Purdue. Lots of posters on this board dismis a player like Langford because they say Purdue could never get a kid that good. All I'm saying is they could.
 
Link please to support your exaggeration?

I'd bet my house that you and every other person that uses the phrase 'most kids', have no earthly idea why one recruit chooses a school.

Look at MSU as an example, Fife has been credited for getting more than a couple recruits there so please stop spreading your nonsense.
Speaking of nonsense... Do you actually read what you post? If you think kids go to MSU because of Fife over Izzo you're high.
 
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This is the worst excuse used regularly on this site. Who cares? What if he was brought in as a consultant for the president, or for an NBA team? Both would be impressive on a resume, but neither lead to Final 4's and championships or elite recruiting for Purdue. Good for CMP that USA basketball likes him. Unless it equates to NC's or Final 4's, it doesn't mean much to us as PURDUE fans.

As for winning the B1G last year, he did it by riding one of the top 3 players in college bball. Many average coaches can ride a top 3 player to a league title. Still in 12 years, nothing better than a few sweet 16's and 2 B1G championships. For comparison, recently fired Thad Matta in his first 12 years at OSU had 5 B1G championships, 3 elite 8's (a 4th at X before coming to OSU), 2 Final 4's and a NC runner up. Recently fired Tan Tom, in 3 less years, had the same number of sweet 16 appearances and B1G championships as CMP has had.

But sure, Painter is great, rah rah.
Even with Swanigan, Painter didn't have elite talent last season if you go by recruiting rankings across the roster. In fact, I would say that Purdue was below average athletically within the Big Ten. Painter had some very good players, but they were players who were coached up to play much closer to their potential than is typical in college basketball. (I'm especially referring to guys like PJ and Dakota, but it is true of the entire team). I felt like everything went according to plan, but when Purdue ran into a team with elite talent (Kansas) which was having a good shooting night, the talent gap was obvious and Purdue really had no answers.

There is a bit of a chicken and egg challenge here. Without a Final Four, Painter is going to pull in middle of the pack Big Ten classes in terms of recruiting rankings more often than not. The overall draw of the program is what it is right now. That said, Painter has a very good track record of getting strong results from average Big Ten talent, and if things break right I think that he has a great shot at breaking through and getting to a Final Four. I think that he has brought in players recently, such as Carsen Edwards, Eastern, Haarms, and Wheeler, who have a chance to develop into Final Four caliber players, but all of these guys are going to need a lot of development to reach that level. The margin for error is still far less than with programs that pull in top ranked talent on a regular basis. Given where It stands as a program, I think that Painter gives Purdue a much better chance of breaking through than would starting over with the best available coach that Purdue would be able to hire.
 
Speaking of nonsense... Do you actually read what you post? If you think kids go to MSU because of Fife over Izzo you're high.
And clearly you lack basic reading comprehension. Fife was credited for the recruitment of a couple players at MSU, you do know what the term recruitment means right?

Here let me help you clear it up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dane_Fife#Assistant_at_Michigan_State

Pay particular attention to the line: 'He is also instrumental in MSU’s scouting and recruiting efforts'

Sucks when facts trump your hyperbole eh?
 
This whole thread is ridiculous. Every Time Painter gets a 5 star the team wins big ten championships , he's not a good coach he's a very good coach. He's a little above average recruiter not an elite recruiter. Simple as that , come on you're asking a how question over a coach using very questionable recruiting tactics.
 
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