How Brazil reduced their murder rate

tearsforfears

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Have you ever been to Brazil? Is this a joke?

Tucker on his dictator world tour is quite something.
Tucker Tucker Tucker

See Rupar’s kid always has the crazy lib look? Impressive to get ‘em started that early…..

 

TMan92

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Are you here to slam Tucker or are you going to refute that Brazil's gun violence went down when their gun ownership went up?
If a 800 lb person loses 2 hundred pounds they still are fat. Look at inflation, unemployment and crime in Brazil and tell me that's a place we should be applauding.

Back to my initial question. I have been to Brazil multiple times in recent years. Great food, beautiful women, but probably the scariest place to walk down the street from a violent crime perspective. I would dig into those numbers deeper because I never trust a politician that states causation from one thing in a two-year period.
 
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Boilermaker03

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If a 800 lb person loses 2 hundred pounds they still are fat. Look at inflation, unemployment and crime in Brazil and tell me that's a place we should be applauding.

Back to my initial question. I have been to Brazil multiple times in recent years. Great food, beautiful women, but probably the scariest place to walk down the street from a violent crime perspective. I would dig into those numbers deeper because I never trust a politician that states causation from one thing in a two-year period.
Way to move the goal posts. We are talking about gun violence. Not their inflation, unemployment and crime in general. Stick to the topic at hand.
 
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TMan92

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Way to move the goal posts. We are talking about gun violence. Not their inflation, unemployment and crime in general. Stick to the topic at hand.
All but that line I responded to in your post. Violence is still absolutely terrible in Brazil, I wouldn't take the causation of gun ownership at face value without looking at more factors, and it was portrayed in the interviews by Carlson that Brazil should be a model for the US. Fun fact, nobody on the planet has more guns than us per capita and in total and our gun violence has increased. But, unlike you, I rationally understand that may not be the only reason gun violence has increased in the US.
 

Boilermaker03

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Please share your data vs. sound bites. I can guarantee you there will be five studies showing the complete opposite.
Do those studies show the difference between actual gun crime and suicides by gun? Yes, I'm sure suicide has gone up across the board (suicides from lock downs, etc). However, you cannot tell me that there are area's in middle America that increased in gun violence more than area's like Chicago.

"In the first five months of the year, there were 971 shootings, compared to 1,151 for the same time period in 2021 and 961 in 2020, according to police numbers. In 2019, there were 736 shootings in that same period."

 

TMan92

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Do those studies show the difference between actual gun crime and suicides by gun? Yes, I'm sure suicide has gone up across the board (suicides from lock downs, etc). However, you cannot tell me that there are area's in middle America that increased in gun violence more than area's like Chicago.

"In the first five months of the year, there were 971 shootings, compared to 1,151 for the same time period in 2021 and 961 in 2020, according to police numbers. In 2019, there were 736 shootings in that same period."

You made a point that areas that are gun-free zones are the problem. Gun-free zones in the US are like no-smoking sections in airplanes in the 70s and 80s. I grew up on the Illinois/Indiana border. There is no massive metal detector that stops guns from coming in from 20 minutes away.

I am not arguing that numbers are increasing. This all started when you said that more legal guns dropped crime in Brazil. More guns in the US have been sold since 2020 than in any other period. Using your logic, crime should have decreased. It hasn't as you have shown in your comment about Chicago. Since that increase, the time to crime stats by the ATF have been shortening, showing that guns purchased for crimes are increasing.

Add that to the fact that many of these guns are trafficked from places with easier gun purchase requirements, which gets us to my point that gun-free zones in the US are a massive joke.

I am not in favor of taking your guns away. I just think a mix of laws across small geographies doesn't help the problem.

 

Joetboiler

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You made a point that areas that are gun-free zones are the problem. Gun-free zones in the US are like no-smoking sections in airplanes in the 70s and 80s. I grew up on the Illinois/Indiana border. There is no massive metal detector that stops guns from coming in from 20 minutes away.

I am not arguing that numbers are increasing. This all started when you said that more legal guns dropped crime in Brazil. More guns in the US have been sold since 2020 than in any other period. Using your logic, crime should have decreased. It hasn't as you have shown in your comment about Chicago. Since that increase, the time to crime stats by the ATF have been shortening, showing that guns purchased for crimes are increasing.

Add that to the fact that many of these guns are trafficked from places with easier gun purchase requirements, which gets us to my point that gun-free zones in the US are a massive joke.

I am not in favor of taking your guns away. I just think a mix of laws across small geographies doesn't help the problem.

If your girlfriend or cousin went to Indiana to purchase a gun for you because they had a clean record to give to you to commit a crime that is a felony. Now did your social justice George Soros funded prosecutor Kim Foxx that you probably voted for prosecute the crime? Given that she has a hard time bringing herself to prosecute murderers I’ll guess no. And guess what if she doesn’t get charged she is clean to do it for somebody else next week all over again.

You’ve called me a rube beforeu yet I smart enough to know that the trigger puller doesn’t buy the gun in Indiana. A female friend or relative does. Yet you’ll buy Lori Lightfoot’s garbage that Chicago’s gun violence problem is because of Indiana gun laws.
 

gr8indoorsman

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Yeah, just take a look at the authoritarian state Australia is in too. Thanks for showing why guns should never be taken away.
Yes. I get it. Brazil = burgeoning world power economy and beacon of freedom and safety. Australia= authoritarian shithole.

You need to actually go to one of those countries, Tucker, you ****ing idiot.
 

TMan92

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If your girlfriend or cousin went to Indiana to purchase a gun for you because they had a clean record to give to you to commit a crime that is a felony. Now did your social justice George Soros funded prosecutor Kim Foxx that you probably voted for prosecute the crime? Given that she has a hard time bringing herself to prosecute murderers I’ll guess no. And guess what if she doesn’t get charged she is clean to do it for somebody else next week all over again.

You’ve called me a rube beforeu yet I smart enough to know that the trigger puller doesn’t buy the gun in Indiana. A female friend or relative does. Yet you’ll buy Lori Lightfoot’s garbage that Chicago’s gun violence problem is because of Indiana gun laws.
I don't live in Illinois anymore. Weak DA's are stupid.

This whole conversation started with a statement that because Brazil has had more gun sales its crime rate has decreased. I stated that you might want to take a deeper look. If more gun sales reduce crime why has crime increased in the US two years after the largest period of gun sales?

I was then told that crime has increased mainly in gun-free zones. I then said that there are no such thing as gun-free zones because of the difference in state and local gun laws.

People should get prosecuted, but it sure seems easy for criminals to get guns. I think we are too far gone in gun volume to solve anything, by the way. Just hope you and your loved ones aren't in the wrong place at the wrong time.
 
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tearsforfears

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Yes. I get it. Brazil = burgeoning world power economy and beacon of freedom and safety. Australia= authoritarian shithole.

You need to actually go to one of those countries, Tucker, you ****ing idiot.
It’ll be interesting to see how Tucker responds to you 😂
 

Boilermaker03

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You made a point that areas that are gun-free zones are the problem. Gun-free zones in the US are like no-smoking sections in airplanes in the 70s and 80s. I grew up on the Illinois/Indiana border. There is no massive metal detector that stops guns from coming in from 20 minutes away.

I am not arguing that numbers are increasing. This all started when you said that more legal guns dropped crime in Brazil. More guns in the US have been sold since 2020 than in any other period. Using your logic, crime should have decreased. It hasn't as you have shown in your comment about Chicago. Since that increase, the time to crime stats by the ATF have been shortening, showing that guns purchased for crimes are increasing.

Add that to the fact that many of these guns are trafficked from places with easier gun purchase requirements, which gets us to my point that gun-free zones in the US are a massive joke.

I am not in favor of taking your guns away. I just think a mix of laws across small geographies doesn't help the problem.

Doesn't matter how many guns are or are not sold. As long as you have gun free zones, criminals will KNOW they won't be challenged. It's literally that simple, but simple minded can't seem to grasp the concept...
 

Boilermaker03

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Yes. I get it. Brazil = burgeoning world power economy and beacon of freedom and safety. Australia= authoritarian shithole.

You need to actually go to one of those countries, Tucker, you ****ing idiot.
Strawman much? I never claimed any of those things about Brazil. You can still glean things from a country, even if it is still a mess overall.

Australia has become quite authoritarian though. People being arrested simply for walking outside without a mask, when there was literally nobody around. People's homes being raided by the police and being arrested simply because of what they said on social media. Also, did you not see the facilities that they forced people to live in if they got covid? Almost as bad as China welding people in their homes.



 

TMan92

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Doesn't matter how many guns are or are not sold. As long as you have gun free zones, criminals will KNOW they won't be challenged. It's literally that simple, but simple minded can't seem to grasp the concept...
So gangbangers killing each other think the other person doesn't have a gun because of gun-free zones? This has been a great conversation, thanks. I am getting too old for this.
 

Boilermaker03

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I don't live in Illinois anymore. Weak DA's are stupid.

This whole conversation started with a statement that because Brazil has had more gun sales its crime rate has decreased. I stated that you might want to take a deeper look. If more gun sales reduce crime why has crime increased in the US two years after the largest period of gun sales?

I was then told that crime has increased mainly in gun-free zones. I then said that there are no such thing as gun-free zones because of the difference in state and local gun laws.

People should get prosecuted, but it sure seems easy for criminals to get guns. I think we are too far gone in gun volume to solve anything, by the way. Just hope you and your loved ones aren't in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Stop misrepresenting what was the point of the OP. It wasn't that gun sales were causing crime overall to go down. It was that murder rates were going down. Places that typically had few guns (near gun free zones) had more and thus murders went down.

I also never said crime (blanket word) has only increased in gun free zones. I said murders have. You're a moron if you don't think there aren't gun free zones. Chicago is one. It is illegal to carry a gun in these area's. Thus, gun free zone.
 

TMan92

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Strawman much? I never claimed any of those things about Brazil. You can still glean things from a country, even if it is still a mess overall.

Australia has become quite authoritarian though. People being arrested simply for walking outside without a mask, when there was literally nobody around. People's homes being raided by the police and being arrested simply because of what they said on social media. Also, did you not see the facilities that they forced people to live in if they got covid? Almost as bad as China welding people in their homes.



I will ask one more time. Have you ever been to Brazil?
 

Boilermaker03

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So gangbangers killing each other think the other person doesn't have a gun because of gun-free zones? This has been a great conversation, thanks. I am getting too old for this.
So you think gangbangers only kill other gangbangers? Yes, you are getting too old for this. Go take a nap.
 

Boilermaker03

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I will ask one more time. Have you ever been to Brazil?
What fukking difference does that make? Even if you have, I'd be more than willing to bet you haven't in the past 3 years, which is when this is referring to. So unless you've been there before AND after, it doesn't matter if you've been there or not.

Let me rephrase. If you haven't been there before 3 years from now and after when these changes occurred, you have no more information to go on than I do.
 

TMan92

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What fukking difference does that make? Even if you have, I'd be more than willing to bet you haven't in the past 3 years, which is when this is referring to. So unless you've been there before AND after, it doesn't matter if you've been there or not.

Let me rephrase. If you haven't been there before 3 years from now and after when these changes occurred, you have no more information to go on than I do.
Why does it matter? Even if it improved for any reason, it is still about 10X more dangerous than Chicago, which you are saying is a hellscape.
 

gr8indoorsman

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Strawman much? I never claimed any of those things about Brazil. You can still glean things from a country, even if it is still a mess overall.

Australia has become quite authoritarian though. People being arrested simply for walking outside without a mask, when there was literally nobody around. People's homes being raided by the police and being arrested simply because of what they said on social media. Also, did you not see the facilities that they forced people to live in if they got covid? Almost as bad as China welding people in their homes.



COVID policies done in the name of public health. You can disagree with them, but citing temporary policies put in place for public health as a sign of authoritarian rule is ****ing stupid

Meanwhile, 20% of Brazil lives in poverty. Overall crime rate is ridiculous, and they live under an actual authoritarian, but you're just echoing Tucker because you can't think for yourself.

Meanwhile, in Australia, gun violence dropped precipitously when they severely restricted gun proliferation. You conveniently ignored the point of my post, as you usually do, and then talked to me about strawman arguments while bringing up COVID policies.
 

Boilermaker03

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COVID policies done in the name of public health. You can disagree with them, but citing temporary policies put in place for public health as a sign of authoritarian rule is ****ing stupid

Meanwhile, 20% of Brazil lives in poverty. Overall crime rate is ridiculous, and they live under an actual authoritarian, but you're just echoing Tucker because you can't think for yourself.

Meanwhile, in Australia, gun violence dropped precipitously when they severely restricted gun proliferation. You conveniently ignored the point of my post, as you usually do, and then talked to me about strawman arguments while bringing up COVID policies.
Right, so you think rounding people up and putting them in a facility against their will isn't authoritarian? Did you not read any of the other articles I linked? GTFOH

Typical group of clueless liking your post too.
 
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Joetboiler

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I don't live in Illinois anymore. Weak DA's are stupid.

This whole conversation started with a statement that because Brazil has had more gun sales its crime rate has decreased. I stated that you might want to take a deeper look. If more gun sales reduce crime why has crime increased in the US two years after the largest period of gun sales?

I was then told that crime has increased mainly in gun-free zones. I then said that there are no such thing as gun-free zones because of the difference in state and local gun laws.

People should get prosecuted, but it sure seems easy for criminals to get guns. I think we are too far gone in gun volume to solve anything, by the way. Just hope you and your loved ones aren't in the wrong place at the wrong time.
In the last year 74 people in Chicago awaiting a trial for a felony gun charge in Chicago have shot or murdered somebody (story below). This is not because of lax gun laws it's because of progressive politicians and DAs lack of interest to jail offenders. The largest growth in legal gun sales is woman and African Americans who are scared because progressive leaders will not take the necessary steps to protect them. Again 74 incidents that did not need to occur because you physically had the offender in custody. Gun laws? Or prosecution of gun laws.

https://cwbchicago.com/2022/07/teen-awaiting-trial-chicago-expressway-murder-alexis-perez-bail.html
 

indy35

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So I thought mass shootings only happen here?

Denmark's last mass shooting was in 2015, when 2 people along with the gunman were killed. Were you trying to point out that strict gun laws make people much safer by bringing up Denmark?
 
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Denmark's last mass shooting was in 2015, when 2 people along with the gunman were killed. Were you trying to point out that strict gun laws make people much safer by bringing up Denmark?
Swing and a miss. We were told these things never happen anywhere by you libtards if we just enacted more gun control. Looks like that isn't the case as Denmark and Chitcago both have proven.
 
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The things we post to change the subject when we know the argument is lost are called “red herrings!”
Except what I posted goes to the argument. The things we post to deflect a response when you know it nukes the argument is called "not keeping up".
 

gr8indoorsman

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Except what I posted goes to the argument. The things we post to deflect a response when you know it nukes the argument is called "not keeping up".
No, it doesn’t. Like not even a little bit. The argument is “more guns means less gun violence”. Australia (and most of the developed world) shows otherwise. COVID policy has nothing to do with that. You cite it because you believe gun restrictions to be authoritarian, and that is a different subject entirely.