Haas -15 on the +- stat, Taylor +17 for the Israel game

[reswat]

Just looking at the stats, I noticed that Haas was -15 and Taylor +17.

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools...o_pdf/2017-18/box_score/stats_20170827aaa.pdf

From reading the article, I would guess that reflects Haas's difficulty in defending the pick and roll.

Haas has been dominating on offense, but that domination will be diminished if it hurts us on defense.

On the flip side, it looks like Taylor was doing something right.

Any thoughts?

 

[punaj]

Not sure how that stat is calculated. Haas was 2/6 on free throws and played almost three times the minutes. Taylor was 1/1 shooting and was even being sub'd out on defense in over time for Grady.

 

[Dakota Girl]

Just looking at the stats, I noticed that Haas was -15 and Taylor +17.

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools...o_pdf/2017-18/box_score/stats_20170827aaa.pdf

From reading the article, I would guess that reflects Haas's difficulty in defending the pick and roll.

Haas has been dominating on offense, but that domination will be diminished if it hurts us on defense.

On the flip side, it looks like Taylor was doing something right.

Any thoughts?

Didn't see that huge of a disparity watching it unfold. Didn't seem to be all that much pure pick and roll involving the center. When I watch again I'll look for it.

 

[northside100]

Didn't see that huge of a disparity watching it unfold. Didn't seem to be all that much pure pick and roll involving the center. When I watch again I'll look for it.

The +/- stat for a single game isn't necessarily indicative of the player's performance. Seeing that Carsen is +16 my first thought is that Isaac was out at times when Carsen got particularly hot. I was impressed to see IH play close to 30 minutes and block four shots.

 

[boilerzz]

The +/- stat for a single game isn't necessarily indicative of the player's performance. Seeing that Carsen is +16 my first thought is that Isaac was out at times when Carsen got particularly hot. I was impressed to see IH play close to 30 minutes and block four shots.

Agreed. It is a flawed metric at such a micro level. It's flawed but less so at the macro level and I'm guessing Isaac's numbers are pretty good for the WUG overall.

 

[Bluegrass Boiler]

+/- does not calculate the value of the EIGHT fouls Haas drew, including fouling out their center. That Fouls Drawn stat the WUG keeps is something we should implement in the U.S. too.

 

[02Boilermaker]

Plus/minus, whether actual floor time +/- like hockey or a calculated "box score +/-," does have some flaws as a stand alone number. Haas did a lot of good: efficient scoring, good rebounding, 4 blocks, drawing 8 fouls.

Despite all the good, there is also no denying the fact that Israel absolutely took advantage of Haas on the defensive end. Like Dakota Girl hinted, Israel wasn't using the ball screen to attack Haas off the dribble. They used it to draw him out beyond the 3pt elbow on the hedge which opened up the middle & constantly put Purdue in help defense mode. Both help defenders & the Haas/PG recoveries seemed a step slow all game. Israel got so comfortable using 1 or 2 passes to get the ball to an open man cutting at the lane. It was a prime example of the situation where I wish Painter would change things up just a bit. I don't want anything drastic. Just go to a straight switch for a possession or two and make that PG prove he can create a play going at Haas. It might not have worked, but I like putting players in positions where they need to make decisions in stressful situations rather than just letting them run in autopilot like Israel seemed to be doing for a big chunk of the game.

 

[todd brewster]

Just looking at the stats, http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools...o_pdf/2017-18/box_score/stats_20170827aaa.pdf

This is easily explained. Haas dominated the game.

The did everything to curtail the passes inside to Haas. Haas made some great moves and they fouled him. He also adjusted and when he saw the double and triple team coming her outletted for players to have open 3's. His D was aslo good in stopping the ballhandlers from penetrating.

His negative was free throw shooting and even though it comes from experience some opp (that he was not guarding) snuck in behind him for layups.

However, when in the game, their best player was guarding him and picked up 4 fouls when he had to pick up his 5th, I knew they were through.

Matt substituted so that when they went to the foul line Haas went in and when we went to the foul line Taylor was in. Therefore, Haas picked up minus when they made free throws and Taylor picked up positive when he went in.

Posters here made references to Biggies' D last year. But if you watched the game, Haas picked up their ballhandler and stopped many drives and short jumpers just as he did last year. Last year, Biggie did a great job picking up Haas' man who today rolled to the basket and got layups. I would like to see Taylor play at least 5 minutes per game at the 4 just to make the opp get out of rhythm.

BTW, maybe it is me, but I credited Haas with 6 blocks. One was where he came out on the ballhandler who put up a shot. I assumed Haas blocked it as it came up ten feet short. Do the statisticians today not count a block if you just tip the ball? I thought Haas had more blocks last season too and maybe they don't count a block if it is only tipped. What is the rule?

 

[32zone]

Just looking at the stats, I noticed that Haas was -15 and Taylor +17.

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools...o_pdf/2017-18/box_score/stats_20170827aaa.pdf

From reading the article, I would guess that reflects Haas's difficulty in defending the pick and roll.

Haas has been dominating on offense, but that domination will be diminished if it hurts us on defense.

On the flip side, it looks like Taylor was doing something right.

Any thoughts?

I watched the reply at 9:00am. I'm not sure how many minutes Taylor played but I don't recall him being out there very much. When he was in all I remember him doing was hitting a turn around 5 foot jumper. Not much else.

 

[Dakota Girl]

The +/- stat for a single game isn't necessarily indicative of the player's performance. Seeing that Carsen is +16 my first thought is that Isaac was out at times when Carsen got particularly hot. I was impressed to see IH play close to 30 minutes and block four shots.

Agree that is a good stat over say half a season plus. Like with many stats you gotta watch the game to fully understand what happened and why the statistics are what they are.

 

[SIBoiler2]

Remember that back in the good old USA we'll have another giant to go out on the wing and let Isaac own the middle.

 

[PurduePeteBsie87]

No denying we have some studs, but anyone else concerned about the lack of trust and production from the bench?

 

[Dakota Girl]

Just looking at the stats, I noticed that Haas was -15 and Taylor +17.

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools...o_pdf/2017-18/box_score/stats_20170827aaa.pdf

From reading the article, I would guess that reflects Haas's difficulty in defending the pick and roll.

Haas has been dominating on offense, but that domination will be diminished if it hurts us on defense.

On the flip side, it looks like Taylor was doing something right.

Any thoughts?

I am watching the game again. I do see a lot of ball screens involving the center but Haas seems to be doing a good job with it in the first half (that's where I am in my rewatch). Israel is really spread out (like three guys 8 to 10 feet outside the arc) and they run a lot of vertical screens, for the ball and off the ball. Quite a few down screens feeding the high post followed by a quick high low pass to the screener down low. Then a couple fake high lows with up cutter stopping and slipping back to the rim to get open. They cut hard and fast and from long distances. Tough to defend but also tough to run. Exhausting for both sides.
My guess is Haas's +/- being negative was in large part due to the US being dead cold the first four minutes of the game when we went down. Then when he sat for the first time we suddenly got hot from the perimeter. I suggest keeping him.

 

[SIBoiler2]

No denying we have some studs, but anyone else concerned about the lack of trust and production from the bench?

Nope. It's August and the bench is green. Today was similar to playing in the NCAA tournament. You go with the ones that brunt you under those conditions. They'll be fine by January.

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

I think what killed Purdue was the fact Israel had what I would consider top level guard play. I haven't seen what Germany has BUT the announcers said they expected that game to be a potential final matchup.

 

[tjreese]

Plus/minus, whether actual floor time +/- like hockey or a calculated "box score +/-," does have some flaws as a stand alone number. Haas did a lot of good: efficient scoring, good rebounding, 4 blocks, drawing 8 fouls.

Despite all the good, there is also no denying the fact that Israel absolutely took advantage of Haas on the defensive end. Like Dakota Girl hinted, Israel wasn't using the ball screen to attack Haas off the dribble. They used it to draw him out beyond the 3pt elbow on the hedge which opened up the middle & constantly put Purdue in help defense mode. Both help defenders & the Haas/PG recoveries seemed a step slow all game. Israel got so comfortable using 1 or 2 passes to get the ball to an open man cutting at the lane. It was a prime example of the situation where I wish Painter would change things up just a bit. I don't want anything drastic. Just go to a straight switch for a possession or two and make that PG prove he can create a play going at Haas. It might not have worked, but I like putting players in positions where they need to make decisions in stressful situations rather than just letting them run in autopilot like Israel seemed to be doing for a big chunk of the game.

I can't recall when it was the game before, but you could hear Matt in the huddle with four starters (vince, dakota, carsen...maybe PJ) saying I got four f'ing starters in the game and we are switching everything (makes me thinks JT was in because of that-switching everything) and we are not something (containing, getting behind, not talking, mixed up on switches). That is F'ing elementary guys!