Genuinely curious: how would you describe your overarching political views?
- Thread starter ComradeRedBoilermaker
- Start date
hear, hear
unfortunately many from both sides ultimately rely on government and trust its propaganda more than individuals
(social/welfare on one side, nationalism/protectionism on the other)
Ok, because I think a few rules to curb those who exploit a free market to the detriment of others doesn't mean I want socialism. If you want to go to extremes then argue with someone else. There's a hell of a lot more wrong with socialism but an unbridled free market has some issues. That said, it is preferred.
I have been VERY concerned for a few years. I'm very much opposed to "GROUP work" in schools and wish there was not as much herd mentality. When we are asleep and the youth doesn't have teh relevant knowledge to actually know much...and hindered by lacking real world experience..indoctrination is easier by those that also haven't done anything outside of academia.
People have been fed ice cream and other distractions while teh crumbling happens. Nothing new as Rome and Nero can attest...
Last year I spent almost 3 weeks in Germany. My son-in-law is from Plauen, Germany (eastern side) and as we were celebrating his parents 60th birthday I was talking to a friend of the family. The man was an electrician ...highly skilled in working with very high voltage/amperage conditions...making the same money as the most basic electrician. I shared with them that is wasn't right that the extra learning and skills were not rewarded a bit extra and they sat there nto sure what to think. My son-in-laws father drive to Munich (3 hours away to work) and spends the week there to return Friday for the weekend. He works as my son-law-describes as "planned economy"...
I loved it there due to soooooooooo many sites to see, but for the poor people charged with a felony (Japanese visitors???) that thought it was funny to make a heil hitler salute...freedom of speech was not as free as some want it to sound.
3.5% unemployment, >70% debt/GDP, running a surplus with household debt declining... Yep, that "planned economy" is on the verge of destruction. Sorry to hear about the electrician but then if he were in the US his earnings would have been declining in adjusted dollars for a generation. For the life of me I can't understand where Germany would have gotten the idea that a "heil hitler salute" wasn't funny and they would regulate it's humor value.Last year I spent almost 3 weeks in Germany. My son-in-law is from Plauen, Germany (eastern side) and as we were celebrating his parents 60th birthday I was talking to a friend of the family. The man was an electrician ...highly skilled in working with very high voltage/amperage conditions...making the same money as the most basic electrician. I shared with them that is wasn't right that the extra learning and skills were not rewarded a bit extra and they sat there nto sure what to think. My son-in-laws father drive to Munich (3 hours away to work) and spends the week there to return Friday for the weekend. He works as my son-law-describes as "planned economy"...
I guess you thought this inane post, that has nothing to do with the post you quoted, was a real zinger?
A lot of hyperbole there? Surely there is a fine line between not being funny and a felony? Seriously? Few if any people in Germany today were responsible for any of the concentration camps and should have no guilt. I just told you about some of the working conditions that is all...
I'm way toooooooo independent to need someone less capable than me dictating for me my work. I grew up in a rural area and if you grew up in a city...perhaps that is a difference..or perhaps you are just a lot younger? No matter what ...I told the truth and you can try to interpret however.
Still, who am I to say that is wrong for you? I could enjoy living there for a short duration
Is this the story you're talking about?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...ested-giving-hitler-salute-outside-reichstag/
They can leave the country and a worst it will result in a fine, if anything.
Not sure where you're coming from, Ordoliberalisim had no connection to the GDR. It was a West German post war economic philosophy. I'm not sure how your experience in Plauen, with it's East German past, has anything to do with Ordoliberalisim, nor do I understand where you get Ordoliberalisim dictates a persons work.
I don't recall ever using the word Ordoliberalisim any time...any place. I just mentioned what I experienced at Plauen which is about 1 1/2 hours south of Dreesden..3 hours south of Berlin. I have FB friends there and REALLY liked their company. Although we have limited time together, I can say they are friends. The father is a HVAC engineer and the mother was an engineer that works in social work at this time. The electrician was a huge fan of AC/DC and liked his rock and roll. My experience was quite good in Plauen...I actually enjoyed being in a place where I could drive and actually park a car...even though there were few people that could speak English unlike the cities. I liked Berlin, Munchen and Dreesden a lot...didn't care for Frankfurt. I found it a bit odd that beer was cheaper than water in the stores and loved driving the autobahn, but again I prefer a bit less rules.
I told you what I heard and knew to happen. I'm not going to pretend to tell you how it fits anymore into the Ordoliberalisim anymore than welfare fits into a capitalist country. I can't recall the story to see if your link matches what I recall, but can say with no uncertainty that many in Germany are like whipped puppies through none of their fault of Germany's past. Upon leaving Plauen for a couple of days my daughter wanted to go to Berlin since her previous time was limited there. She wanted to visit the headquarters for the concentration camps as well as see a few more sites ( https://originalberlintours.com/tours/free-original-berlin-sachsenhausen-concentration-camp-memorial-tour/ ) and her husband didn't understand why she was interested in the camps...which I knew he was afraid we would be judgemental into something he, nor his family and friends had anything to do with. While she was getting ready (she can never look good enough to take the trash out even
) I told Tobi (Tobias) that I wanted him to know that I hold no judgement on the people of Germany today for what happened many years before. Course had the Versailes Treaty not been so fiscally harmful to Germany...Hitler might never have been. Perhaps there is something to learn there as well about people being vulnerable when hurting financially and then someone helps their spirits and opens a few doors. Plauen is about 12 miles away from the czech republic and the previous east/west wall. When the wall went down the first thing his family did was to go to McDonalds that they heard so much about previously.So, I've been completely honest. I'm guessing you are much younger AND possibly grew up in a city. None of that makes you wrong or right...just easier perhaps to gain your perspective. Be honest...none of it means you are wrong...no more than socialism by a variety of names is not held in as high of prestige for the older crowd...and that doesn't make them wrong either.
Where did I want to go to extremes? That's just a bizarre statement.
Overall, I like your response.
I don't think we've ever seen anything close to an "unrestricted free market". Not in our lifetime.
We have thousands upon thousands of pages of rules, regulations, and restrictions, many of which choke the living sh*t out of the economy.
trivia relative to the concentration camp...Stalin's son committed suicide there by walking into the "stoned" resticted area so he would get shot. Also, we have all read the following, but https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007392 but Martin Niemoller was prisoner there and wrote this...I don't recall ever using the word Ordoliberalisim any time...any place. I just mentioned what I experienced at Plauen which is about 1 1/2 hours south of Dreesden..3 hours south of Berlin. I have FB friends there and REALLY liked their company. Although we have limited time together, I can say they are friends. The father is a HVAC engineer and the mother was an engineer that works in social work at this time. The electrician was a huge fan of AC/DC and liked his rock and roll. My experience was quite good in Plauen...I actually enjoyed being in a place where I could drive and actually park a car...even though there were few people that could speak English unlike the cities. I liked Berlin, Munchen and Dreesden a lot...didn't care for Frankfurt. I found it a bit odd that beer was cheaper than water in the stores and loved driving the autobahn, but again I prefer a bit less rules.
I told you what I heard and knew to happen. I'm not going to pretend to tell you how it fits anymore into the Ordoliberalisim anymore than welfare fits into a capitalist country. I can't recall the story to see if your link matches what I recall, but can say with no uncertainty that many in Germany are like whipped puppies through none of their fault of Germany's past. Upon leaving Plauen for a couple of days my daughter wanted to go to Berlin since her previous time was limited there. She wanted to visit the headquarters for the concentration camps as well as see a few more sites ( https://originalberlintours.com/tours/free-original-berlin-sachsenhausen-concentration-camp-memorial-tour/ ) and her husband didn't understand why she was interested in the camps...which I knew he was afraid we would be judgemental into something he, nor his family and friends had anything to do with. While she was getting ready (she can never look good enough to take the trash out even
So, I've been completely honest. I'm guessing you are much younger AND possibly grew up in a city. None of that makes you wrong or right...just easier perhaps to gain your perspective. Be honest...none of it means you are wrong...no more than socialism by a variety of names is not held in as high of prestige for the older crowd...and that doesn't make them wrong either.
Niemöller is perhaps best remembered for the quotation:
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
sorry, now back to...political beliefs or has that moved into economic beliefs which is certainly a part of the political beliefs...
First off, I'm not out to win the GD board, or change anyone's opinion, you can stop asking me to be honest, I have no need to lie. However, I will tell you, over my plus 50 years on this rock, owning/managing/running businesses/projects and dealing with employees, customer, subs, vendors... I'm leery of people who feel they need to tell me they are being honest.I don't recall ever using the word Ordoliberalisim any time...any place. I just mentioned what I experienced at Plauen which is about 1 1/2 hours south of Dreesden..3 hours south of Berlin. I have FB friends there and REALLY liked their company. Although we have limited time together, I can say they are friends. The father is a HVAC engineer and the mother was an engineer that works in social work at this time. The electrician was a huge fan of AC/DC and liked his rock and roll. My experience was quite good in Plauen...I actually enjoyed being in a place where I could drive and actually park a car...even though there were few people that could speak English unlike the cities. I liked Berlin, Munchen and Dreesden a lot...didn't care for Frankfurt. I found it a bit odd that beer was cheaper than water in the stores and loved driving the autobahn, but again I prefer a bit less rules.
I told you what I heard and knew to happen. I'm not going to pretend to tell you how it fits anymore into the Ordoliberalisim anymore than welfare fits into a capitalist country. I can't recall the story to see if your link matches what I recall, but can say with no uncertainty that many in Germany are like whipped puppies through none of their fault of Germany's past. Upon leaving Plauen for a couple of days my daughter wanted to go to Berlin since her previous time was limited there. She wanted to visit the headquarters for the concentration camps as well as see a few more sites ( https://originalberlintours.com/tours/free-original-berlin-sachsenhausen-concentration-camp-memorial-tour/ ) and her husband didn't understand why she was interested in the camps...which I knew he was afraid we would be judgemental into something he, nor his family and friends had anything to do with. While she was getting ready (she can never look good enough to take the trash out even
So, I've been completely honest. I'm guessing you are much younger AND possibly grew up in a city. None of that makes you wrong or right...just easier perhaps to gain your perspective. Be honest...none of it means you are wrong...no more than socialism by a variety of names is not held in as high of prestige for the older crowd...and that doesn't make them wrong either.
Whatever bias you're trying to confirm, here you go, my parents were married a month after my mother graduated HS, I was born at St. E in Lafayette a couple years later while she was an undergrad at Purdue. We stayed in Lafayette while she finished school and started grad school. Later we moved to a rural central Indiana town. From there I moved back to Lafayette/WL for school, then Fort Wayne to start my first business, from there to a house in the middle of no where Indiana after I started a second business in another town and wanted to live between the two. Next a Chicago suburb, then a Detroit suburb, back to a Chicago suburb, back to a small central Indiana town and finally Mt. Pleasant Sc. Now, please understand, through some of that, they were simply mailing address because I traveled most of the time as a commercial construction project manager, some small towns, some big cities, but always lived in a hotel room.
My family comes from Lafayette, rural Indiana and a rural coal mining area of south east Ohio and I spent may, may days in those places.
Is that okay with you, do I have sufficient life experience to think for myself?
Now, I didn't engage you, you quoted a post I made to someone else, I apologize I logically thought you were responding to that and didn't realize you just wanted to talk about your German experience.
Now, let me ask you, why do you seem to think I'm a socialist or that I am advocating socialism?
wow, didn't intend to make you so sensitive.
I think this started here where you responded to me.."3.5% unemployment, >70% debt/GDP, running a surplus with household debt declining... Yep, that "planned economy" is on the verge of destruction. Sorry to hear about the electrician but then if he were in the US his earnings would have been declining in adjusted dollars for a generation. For the life of me I can't understand where Germany would have gotten the idea that a "heil hitler salute" wasn't funny and they would regulate it's humor value."
I guess I inferred that the planned economy you seemed to support and the PC on Hitler long after Hitler was gone, as were almost all people back then, was supportive of socialist conditions and perhaps a bit of PC typical of trying to stifle speech today. I had no intention to denigrate you or imply that someone else was thinking for you. I just saw the chronological ages aligning somewhat with those statements.
You owe me nothing...it is just how questions arose...with your paragraph up there responding to me. I'm sorry this put you on the defensive side as I had no intention of attacking you, but merely assuming based on the "planned economy" support and the stifling of speech indicative of some one more common today. I too have no desire to sway anyone on this board...just perhaps a perspective I may have when I do write something. You're good...
If you haven't yet, try giving these diaries a read, it may shed some new light on your understanding of Nazi Germany and is set primarily in an area you see to be familiar with, Dresden.
https://books.google.com/books/abou...ver&source=kp_read_button#v=onepage&q&f=false
It's all good. When you referred to the many flaws in socialist markets I felt that was an extreme leap from free market flaws.
I'm certainly not an expert but I am a fan of Teddy Roosevelt and have read a lot about him and the period of time when he served as president. I would argue we had a much more free market then than today. Captains of industry/robber barons ruled the times. Rockefeller, Carnegie, Morgan and others did great things for our country and made them some of the wealthiest men on the planet. But it all came at a price......and I believe the measures taken at the time were good for America and continue to be.
I'm all for a free market but that period of time showed that without some framework, some rules...........The system can be exploited for the benefit of a few.
okay
And, I assume it's safe to say, this era can be shown it's incredibly "expensive" for so many rules that have no basis in common sense.
We do not live in a "free market".
This illustrates the stupidity of those who rail against free markets.
This is what we've become.
No argument can stand against this.
None.
Lol. Ok, I'm going to let you go argue with someone who is actually against free markets instead of someone who loves them with a few rules and is saying if we ignore history we are doomed to repeat it........assuming you know anything about the history I referenced.
okay
And, I assume it's safe to say, this era can be shown it's incredibly "expensive" for so many rules that have no basis in common sense.
We do not live in a "free market".
This illustrates the stupidity of those who rail against free markets.
This is what we've become.
No argument can stand against this.
None.
I find so many things I need to read and have such a hard time getting to all of them. I'm sure the personal interpretation of a diary could be interesting and give a personal touch of understanding at a time and in a place. Glancing through it...it does seem interesting and has good reviews in amazon. I'll make it a favorite and perhaps can get to it at another date.
There is much I could learn about Germany...no question. Never did I intend to minimize what Hitler did, it was awful and probably became fertile due to the Versailes Treaty adn the economic conditions at the time...and the desire to feel good again. My reference to Hitler's salute was to state that free speech was stifled due to a guilt instilled in innocent people of Germany...not unlike the white guilt today of people innocent of the what resulted from hundreds of years ago when the northern states bought slaves and then sold the slaves to the southern states. I'm not into identity politics where "groups" are denigrated, but prefer that each individual be graded on his own...hence my displeasure resulting from group work in school growing the herd mentality. I think it is stupid to try to sanitize history by removing reminders of it (which in some areas this is currently happening in the USA). Instead, I think we should all learn from history. Consequently, I think Germany is wrong for the government to get into censorship, but have no problem for the German people to show disgust, rather than goose stepping to the government's stifling of speech. Actually, it is more meaningful for the individual to show disgust than the government to stifle it...whether in Germany or the USA.
I recall years ago in the first of four or five trips to the Holocaust Museum in D.C. standing beside my X's father and him just staring at a picture relative to Austria Hungary and mumbling ..."nobody ever knew what happened to my family there".
The guy you replied to loves government and propaganda symbols more than anyone.. you don’t get to be anti government and suck on some anthem in exchange for free thought... you don’t get to say “you can’t express yourself cause the anthem” and be daniel Boone ....
Is this the political board? Cause I really doubt recruits and their parents want to come here and read right wing talking points
Not drunk at all jagoff.. isn’t your megachurch having some sort of function where they say that if Jesus was alive he’d fire nfl players for kneeling?
Do you even realize what board you're on? You keep mentioning that recruits and their families are going to be turned off by political discourse. We're on the general discussion board where nothing but political issues are discussed. For the love of god stop drinking!
I'm not following why you're so eager to argue.
My post was simply commentary, with an example of how ridiculous this society has become.
No need to insult me.
Wanna see a video of Alan Greenspan sounding like a bumbling dumbass as he gives up on a lifetime of beliefs?
For those interseted, this is what sophists do, pay attention to what this person read on Wikipedia and his assertions above.
“Michel Foucault also notes the similarity (beyond just historical contemporaneity) between the Ordo/Freiburg school and the Frankfurt School of critical theory, due to their inheritance from Max Weber. That is, both recognise the "irrational rationality" of the capitalist system, but not the "logic of contradiction" that Marx posited. Both groups took up the same problem, but in vastly different directions.[21] The political philosophy of Ordoliberals was influenced by Aristotle, de Tocqueville, Hegel, Spengler, Mannheim, Max Weber, and Husserl.“
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordoliberalism
You can also see wher he got “third way,” in the article. And for s**ts and giggles, post war West Germany, now after reunification just Germany, is secular, so it has worked, the sophist probably thought it was the GDR.
I don’t care if you do or not, you and I both know where you got your info in that post, Wikipedia is probably the only place all of what you put in that post converges. Plus your continued nonsense of Ordoliberalisim equals planned economy shows you really don’t know.
Haha, yeah. I do,enjoy your too cool for school approach, attitude over substance. Yes, I’m fearful how you will respond and show me how Ordoliberalism springs from the Frankfurt School.
Libertarian I suppose. Stay out of my bedroom and stay out of my wallet. But even then do not agree with their spending ideas or the isolationist ideas. Have some pretty far left/left view points as well as right of center.
I tend to look at President's who will appoint originalist judges. Not because I always like their rulings, but because they interpret the law and constitution how it was written. It should not be up to the judges to change the law based on what they think the law should be, but actual politicians(President/Congress) should write and pass laws that their constituents support.
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