want to say my earlier opinion on Furst was wrong, i had said i wasn,t impressed by him, the man goes all out and was one on the reasons Purdue won last night. Wanted to get that out there and eat some crow,
Furst
- Thread starter FLAG HUNTER
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He does ok. I enjoyed his hustle & when he saved that one play in the corner I was cheating wildly. Dude was awesome late!
Still, I said early on for a top ~ 50 recruit, Mr. Basketball, in a Mr. Basketball class that included TKR.......I expect a whole lot more. That opinion has not changed. I expect it will with more PT though.
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Shaka said in his interview that the Furst block should be on Purdue's highlight reel for the entire season.
What he did in the 2nd half shows his ceiling is so much higher than Gillis. Unfortunately, our coach likes the problem free guys like Morton & Gillis.... thus we miss seeing the higher ceilling of TKR, Furst and Newman as much because of CMPs focus on problem free basketball where he focuses on mistakes over focusing on positive plays. I think he coaches this way to his detriment long term, late in the season, but for the B10 it seems to work.
Take Newman as an another example of what I am saying his stat line of 9 R and 7 pts in less minutes show his higher cieling, the rebounding was just phenomenal....but he made a couple mistakes and that is where CMP focus was & went to the bench.
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Might as well put it here, too. An example of one of the key plays to winning tight games.....well done, Mr. Furst.
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Hard for me to disagree. I like Morton and Gillis and glad they are on the team. But if we're thinking championship basketball, I dont see how we do that without TKR/Furst/Newman getting more of the time.
On a side note, Wadell after an ACL is better than Heide?
Furst can get up for a big guy.Might as well put it here, too. Those are the key plays to winning tight games.....well done, Mr. Furst.
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Looked like a field goal into the wind at Ross-AdeMight as well put it here, too. Those are the key plays to winning tight games.....well done, Mr. Furst.
You're not wrong, but imagine you're the coach and you tell player A to do xyz and that player continues to do xya. You have another player B that may have less talent, but he nails xyz every time. Do you play A over B when he just doesn't follow instructions or do you roll with B?
I think we all know Painter well enough to see that he's almost always going to give player B the nod. I fear that BN may play his way out of minutes. I really hope not as we need him to play well and give the team that spark off the bench.
I understand your concerns here, but your analysis is based on a whole lot of your assumptions about what Painter values and how he coaches. Some of those assumptions I just don't agree with (that's okay). If I don't pose an opposing perspective, some of those erroneous assumptions could stick to the coach and be a problem in the future.
Last year I watched Painter turn Ivey loose and disregard the mistakes. Before that it was Carsen Edwards. This year we see Painter allow Hunter and IT to transfer (I think he could have turned that around) in order to play a pair of freshman guards and a transfer that all have significantly higher ceilings, but should be expected to make mistakes. I think he has no problem playing the kids with higher potential and tolerating learning errors and playing mistakes.
Last night was more about finding the right combination of players and skills to defeat MU. It was not about sitting players with "higher ceilings" for players "that don't make mistakes".
Just my two cents.
I think most of this will change with PT. He will start to become more aggressive on both sides of the court...Just as TKR. You can definitely tell TKR needs time to adjust to this style of play. We're fortunate to have both of these unique players on our roster.
Yes, I expect more from players like Furst and TKR. They performed at high levels against some elite players in high school and AAU!
I’ve also stated I prefer playing younger more talented players over experienced ones. But those players must earn those minutes!
I’ve said many times I’d love to see Gillis come off the bench as a 6th man. This is not because I dislike Gillis or what he brings. But rather it is with the hope that Furst and TKR are living up to their hype! I believe it would be awesome if TKR became our leading scorer! That would mean he’s elevated his game to the next level like Ivey did!
Painter has shown if a player earns minutes, he gets more minutes. And he’s not afraid to start freshmen. However he uses the preseason as sort of a evaluation period! If those young players do not produce, painter tends to go back to his more experienced combinations!
Something to remember. Teams in every sport that have the philosophy of not playing to lose or going into a preventative defense mode, usually end up losing. Going conservative typically produces negative results! We’ve seen it happen too many times at Purdue where they go conservative and play not to lose and allow the other team to stay close. And then make those last second shots to win. We saw it once again last year. We didn’t lose in the dance because of the last shot. We lost because we played not to lose and didn’t play our style of basketball!
I’ve also stated I prefer playing younger more talented players over experienced ones. But those players must earn those minutes!
I’ve said many times I’d love to see Gillis come off the bench as a 6th man. This is not because I dislike Gillis or what he brings. But rather it is with the hope that Furst and TKR are living up to their hype! I believe it would be awesome if TKR became our leading scorer! That would mean he’s elevated his game to the next level like Ivey did!
Painter has shown if a player earns minutes, he gets more minutes. And he’s not afraid to start freshmen. However he uses the preseason as sort of a evaluation period! If those young players do not produce, painter tends to go back to his more experienced combinations!
Something to remember. Teams in every sport that have the philosophy of not playing to lose or going into a preventative defense mode, usually end up losing. Going conservative typically produces negative results! We’ve seen it happen too many times at Purdue where they go conservative and play not to lose and allow the other team to stay close. And then make those last second shots to win. We saw it once again last year. We didn’t lose in the dance because of the last shot. We lost because we played not to lose and didn’t play our style of basketball!
I want to see a run and gun lineup of Smith, Loyer, Jenkins, Newman, and Furst. I just remember how well Caleb ran the floor in transition at the start of last season with Jaden.
Are you still expecting TKR to supplant Zach in the starting lineup? When should we expect that to occur? I'm don't have the same level of genius out of the box thinking as you, so it's hard for me to estimate this.
Agree 100%. Ridiculous to say that Painter doesn't allow players to play through mistakes, but he's also prioritizing winning games.
Ant Wright made a comment on Twitter that Painter needs to figure out how to use Furst to his fullest. I honestly think having Zach clog the lane doesn't allow for him to move freely and leverage his size/speed/skill etc.
We will know tomorrow.....
I think he plays you to limit your mistakes. His lineups seem odd at times, but he's figuring out what line ups help players minimize it.
There are mistakes and there are “we keep going over this in practice and you’re still doing it incorrectly” mistakes.
The one defensive issue Painter seemed to harp on was with the three-point shooters and not staying connected enough on the ball screen and going under....don't think he was happy about all the loose balls Marquette kept getting either, but if I read him right - I don't think he thought that was an effort issue....at least not last night anyway.
He definitely indicated his line-up choice was geared more to defense last night....even with his usual "downplaying" nature, he wasn't as critical of his team as you might initially expect.....I think he understands this is a growing, developmental, work-in-progress team, and I don't sense any distracting or line-up related issues from what I've heard.
Portland games will be on another level and a little bit of baptism by fire for these young Boilers.
Don't forget the gravy!
He definitely indicated his line-up choice was geared more to defense last night....even with his usual "downplaying" nature, he wasn't as critical of his team as you might initially expect.....I think he understands this is a growing, developmental, work-in-progress team, and I don't sense any distracting or line-up related issues from what I've heard.
Portland games will be on another level and a little bit of baptism by fire for these young Boilers.
Don't forget the gravy!
I don’t see what Waddell brings to the table. Seems slow , a non fluid shot and lacks the body to rebound. Maybe in a year or 2 but…. Heide , Newman and Renn or Furst deserve more playing time
As a coach for over 30 years, I had parents question my decisions and now, after not coaching for 20 years, I see the light. I pulled a very slow player after he hit two threes, but he just couldn't defend. We lost .... who knows?
you putting that way made me think that you are correct. I am a huge Painter supporter and don't think his job should ever be in jeopardy at Purdue as long as he maintains his current standard. Risk is in play here and how you play it as a coach means millions. I would like to see more risks being taken if it means better, faster development.
I must agree. You are right! You don’t have the same level of genius out of the box thinking that I have! You also forgot the part where I mentioned if it didn’t happen TKR would be looking for the transfer portal as he wouldn’t stay at Purdue in a supporting role off the bench!
Heide seems like an elite athlete and he missed his whole senior year essentially. I'm all for him shirting this year and coming back next year even more athletic. Will be amazing to see him and Colvin pairing up as a freshmen duo next year. The rim better watch out
He that is without sin amongst us, cast the first stone
Lot of what ifs as you know, not just on winning and losing, but in fairness to others many times creep into the mind.
I think we are seeing Brian trying to get back in shape a bit physically and perhaps a bit mentally still. Brian is cerebral and will not do a bunch of crazy things. I believe Matt used him late in the game for that reason...to be sound in position on D and to not make bad decisions on O. A lot of players with little experience getting major minutes on this team and there will be bumps in the road. I actually see him getting a bit more fluid than earlier this year. The shot reference you made is partially due to him having the ball out in front of him a bit more, but in pregame he was hitting some.
I imagine Heide will shirt. The coaching staff watches these players daily and if a certain player is playing at a certain time you can bet the coaches consider that the right move for what "they" think is needed. That doesn't mean they are 100% correct all the time, just that their views are more informed. If you recall, there were a few posters posting about Trey being this or that and needing to start and such. Common talk for many and he will be a very good player for Purdue, but we have also seen that he too is growing and since that secret scrimmage and first game maybe his metrics have fallen. There are a LOT of pieces that the staff is trying to piece together to make the best team for a game...starters...subs...etc. We will know a bit more by Jan IMO
Waddell kind of reminds me of Ryan Berning back in the day. They have a similar build and playing style so far.
I think he will get carded even when he's 30. If someone told me he was 16, I would believe it, just by looks.
If we don't know a LOT more by Jan ... well .... we just better know a lot more by Jan!!!
I am sure there is a cost-bennefit analysis (or risk/reward) to PT for all players. Apparently, Edwards & Ivey were on the plus side there obviously .....whereas Newman, Furst & TKR are on the minus side of that, at least from a starter standpoint. Hopefully, continued great play by them will put them on the plus side of that equation. Newman was a beast in that last game. Furst was crazy good late.
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Completely agree, I lack your unique gifts.
Aside from that I'm confused. You did say that if Painter didn't give TKR the opportunity to start and play major minutes, that he would enter the portal, but you also said you were ‘certain TKR wIll become our #1 option and go to player’ this year. Are you saying that hasn't happened because he hasn't had the opportunity? Or are you trying to peddle some sort of revisionist history on your views?
We will. Right now after a game some people already know who should be playing more, and with who, except for Matt.
I'll bet Matt even gets surprised at times based upon recent practices "possibly" seeing some inconsistency with all the new faces.As usual, I want Purdue to win...but not easily. I want the struggle. I want Purdue to win, but with a struggle. I want the players to be attentive to the coaches in how to be better and have less struggles. I want the players to understand that each game is a battle and to be focused every game knowing they can't replay the game and to be sure there are no regrets of "I should have"... As long as Purdue wins I have no problem with Matt putting the players in some tough assignments to increase a player's awareness of their strengths and weaknesses in a limited manner because you still have to win and there typically are just not that may free plays in most games. Then as the season goes on to loosen the screws a bit and see how they do. Soon I expect to see a bit more scoring out of the four spot. Right now it seems most of the scoring is from Zach, Braden, Fletcher, Brandon and last game a bit from David. Yes, we will know more in Jan if not tomorrow...
I'm a fan of both Gillis and Morton but they sure aren't stuffing the stat sheet.Yes I know they both do some things to help the team win but in the end you have to produce more than they are now or............................
I’m just repeating my entire post rather than just replying to a part of it like you do! I guess my initial post was just too long for you to grasp the entire message I was providing. So I will try once more.
First I said I expected Tkr to be our #1 scoring option. It hasn’t happened yet. We played a whopping 3 games! Will it happen? It’s still possible it could.
Secondly I said because of the hype that surrounded him and his talent level, it’s typical and very possible after surprisingly sitting out last year, if he doesn’t end up starting or making major contributions this year, it would not surprise me if he entered the portal and transferred to another school that would promise him he would start!
I also provided examples of other players who left Purdue because they realized they would not be our featured b player and they wanted an opportunity to showcase their talents elsewhere. And those 3 players were Haarms, Eastern and Stephens who all left for a chance to shine. It’s my opinion if tkr is not a main part of our team by the end of this years, he’s not ever really going to break through in the future. Loyer and Colvin will be the future and Furst and Edey are going nowhere and TKR is not a pg! So is very typical of high ranked recruits that do not become stars, they transfer to someplace else! Will TKR take the path so many others hAve taken? I believe if after 2 years at Purdue if he’s not at least starting, he’ll be looking elsewhere. It shouldn’t be a shock. That’s the way college basketball is today. If you believe you are a star and have high hopes of playing pro ball and after 2 years you’re not starting, you look elsewhere.
Why did Hunter and IT leave? It’s sort of obvious they saw the writing on the wall and didn’t want to be a guy coming off the bench! It wasn’t personal, just business!
I hope you read the entire post! Maybe I should put a box at the end for people to put an x in.
He didn’t play much his freshman year but played 11 minutes per game as a soph (resting Mitchell?). It jumped to 20 mpg as a junior and then 30 mpg as a senior in the good year with Sheffler (Gene Keady pounding the table after losing to Texas year).
