For as long as I’ve watched Purdue....

[bonefish1]

which is going on about 40 years, it seems like dribble penetration has been our nemesis.
We still lack the perimeter athletes that can not only stop dribble penetration but then do it to the other team.
Granted VT had 3 really good guards and we probably won’t see another team like them but they just really took advantage of our lack of lateral movement. I was impressed by those guys.

 

[hamcoboiler]

For fourty years two coaches with the same on ball principles have coached at Purdue. Purdue has two guys that can effectively pressure and the ball...the problem they are all asked to guard the ball like they are Gary Payton.

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

Really VT went at Cline more so than any other player...when Purdue gave him help, they kicked to the opposite corner.

Williams made a great adjustment at halftime and Purdue didn’t do themselves any favors by playing a really piss poor final 18 minutes getting outscored by 18

 

[SegregationOfDuties]

Really VT went at Cline more so than any other player...when Purdue gave him help, they kicked to the opposite corner.

Williams made a great adjustment at halftime and Purdue didn’t do themselves any favors by playing a really piss poor final 18 minutes getting outscored by 18

Cline got exposed.

 

[SegregationOfDuties]

Matt Painter is a great coach but imo his biggest weakness is in game adjustments. We played great early and I think he had us in the right position for success. However, Buzz seemed to make more adjustments during the half and we came out a bit flat/stagnant. It's early and we will be fine. It was a good matchup to have at this point in the season.

 

[tjreese]

Really VT went at Cline more so than any other player...when Purdue gave him help, they kicked to the opposite corner.

Williams made a great adjustment at halftime and Purdue didn’t do themselves any favors by playing a really piss poor final 18 minutes getting outscored by 18

I credit poor offense by Purdue that led to many baskets. Not sure how many times VT scored after Purdue scored and was set. There were a few times that VT had an unbalanced court adn this removed the help from Purdue. I've stated in teh past that I wish Matt cleared out some and went unbalanced at times, but the balance is suppose to help with rebounding and transition D. Sure Purdue got exposed a bit on some quickness, but THAT is what you have...nobody make you turn it over like Purdue did...not throw it inside like Purdue didn't. This was a very winnable game. Did Purdue only get a time or two shooting Fts in bonus? Too much three ball action...need a compliment to it...like some touches inside on the low post...mix it up a bit. Feel for the kids...played HARD...

 

[bonefish1]

I also don’t know why Painter refuses to go zone periodically. Hell, they might shoot you out of it but at least give them a new look and make them adjust. See if you can knock them out of Rhythm. We were getting killed on the perimeter and VT was either getting to the rim, getting fouled or getting open 3’s.
As for not going inside: I think a lot of that had to do with VTs perimeter D and not allowing good looks at post feeds.

 

[spradecki]

Matt Painter is a great coach but imo his biggest weakness is in game adjustments. We played great early and I think he had us in the right position for success. However, Buzz seemed to make more adjustments during the half and we came out a bit flat/stagnant. It's early and we will be fine. It was a good matchup to have at this point in the season.

why would painter adjust??
had a pretty big lead

 

[Boiler Buck]

Granted VT had 3 really good guards and we probably won’t see another team like them but they just really took advantage of our lack of lateral movement. I was impressed by those guys.

The Big has a ton of great guards.... if Purdue doesn't tighten up team D heartbreaking losses will be common. CMP has shown abilities to improve teams... and that will be an area he needs to address by B1G season.

 

[Treed1967]

The Big has a ton of great guards.... if Purdue doesn't tighten up team D heartbreaking losses will be common. CMP has shown abilities to improve teams... and that will be an area he needs to address by B1G season.

I do agree the D has to tighten up but I’ve watched each team guards in the big 10 and not many come close to the size strength and athleticism of those 3/4 guards VT had so I believe the defense will be addressed but the big 10 guards are smaller in height and quickness but the big 10 guards run there team well. Purdue had that team on the ropes and yes there were some break downs defensively in 2nd half but overall this team competed it showed they can play with any team especially with teams that will have better athletes. The offense as I have said on multiple occasions it has to be spread out to other players as well to keep teams on there toes. When the 3 ball isn’t falling find offense from other players that can score too gotta utilize them more if that happens scoring could be a lot more balance and teams will have a hard time trying to stop all the scorers we have. I like the fight they showed my mvp is Evan he balled out he has all around game gotta use him more. Even nojel no guard in the big 10 will come close to nojel size gotta use him more inside and set some balls screens so he can open things up for himself and his teammates. We gone be just fine great test they will learn from it and be more prepared when they see a team like that again.

 

[Boiler Buck]

I do agree the D has to tighten up but I’ve watched each team guards in the big 10 and not many come close to the size strength and athleticism of those 3/4 guards VT had so I believe the defense will be addressed but the big 10 guards are smaller in height and quickness but the big 10 guards run there team well. Purdue had that team on the ropes and yes there were some break downs defensively in 2nd half but overall this team competed it showed they can play with any team especially with teams that will have better athletes. The offense as I have said on multiple occasions it has to be spread out to other players as well to keep teams on there toes. When the 3 ball isn’t falling find offense from other players that can score too gotta utilize them more if that happens scoring could be a lot more balance and teams will have a hard time trying to stop all the scorers we have. I like the fight they showed my mvp is Evan he balled out he has all around game gotta use him more. Even nojel no guard in the big 10 will come close to nojel size gotta use him more inside and set some balls screens so he can open things up for himself and his teammates. We gone be just fine great test they will learn from it and be more prepared when they see a team like that again.

It is no coincidence that VT run occurred when your son went to the bench in the second half. He is key to the team's success IMO. Just not going to win games when we allow 50+ halves.

 

[bonefish1]

The Big has a ton of great guards.... if Purdue doesn't tighten up team D heartbreaking losses will be common. CMP has shown abilities to improve teams... and that will be an area he needs to address by B1G season.

I’m not sure which B10 team has 3 guards like VT. Three guys all had 23 or more. All could shoot, dribble and finish.
Would have liked to see what they’d do against a zone.

 

[Boiler Buck]

I’m not sure which B10 team has 3 guards like VT. Three guys all had 23 or more. All could shoot, dribble and finish.
Would have liked to see what they’d do against a zone.

You will have to see the Z word with another team.

 

[bonefish1]

I do agree the D has to tighten up but I’ve watched each team guards in the big 10 and not many come close to the size strength and athleticism of those 3/4 guards VT had so I believe the defense will be addressed but the big 10 guards are smaller in height and quickness but the big 10 guards run there team well. Purdue had that team on the ropes and yes there were some break downs defensively in 2nd half but overall this team competed it showed they can play with any team especially with teams that will have better athletes. The offense as I have said on multiple occasions it has to be spread out to other players as well to keep teams on there toes. When the 3 ball isn’t falling find offense from other players that can score too gotta utilize them more if that happens scoring could be a lot more balance and teams will have a hard time trying to stop all the scorers we have. I like the fight they showed my mvp is Evan he balled out he has all around game gotta use him more. Even nojel no guard in the big 10 will come close to nojel size gotta use him more inside and set some balls screens so he can open things up for himself and his teammates. We gone be just fine great test they will learn from it and be more prepared when they see a team like that again.

I would have liked to see NE post up more. He did it a few times and got good looks, just had trouble finishing. PU missed about 5 bunnies last night.
Agreed on EB. I was wrong about him. He can play at this level. Great offensive rebounder.

 

[Treed1967]

I’m not sure which B10 team has 3 guards like VT. Three guys all had 23 or more. All could shoot, dribble and finish.
Would have liked to see what they’d do against a zone.

Zone never gonna happen even a team with athleticism VT was making the extra passes to get better shots.

 

[Treed1967]

I would have liked to see NE post up more. He did it a few times and got good looks, just had trouble finishing. PU missed about 5 bunnies last night.
Agreed on EB. I was wrong about him. He can play at this level. Great offensive rebounder.

He has to get it more so he can operate but it’s coming. He wasn’t feeling all that well either text me b4 the game his chest was on fire couldn’t breathe all that good but he was gonna give it his all to help team win. Yes he left a few buckets on the board he will fix those miss lay ups I like what I’m seeing we will contend for a big 10 championship and go far in Ncaa Tournament watch and see the pieces r there just gotta spread offense out more than Purdue will be dangerous

 

[Ignacious McNutt]

I also don’t know why Painter refuses to go zone periodically.

Oh good Lord not this again. He doesn't go zone because we don't need to, it will have minimal to no impact and does not transition the NBA game, which many an announcer has said.

People on here that think zone is some magic bullet, need to borrow some money and buy a clue. With as fast and as athletic as we are as long as we aren't getting called for phantom fouls (which a zone won't prevent), our man defense is more than enough to be effective.

It's never happening here, no that doesn't make Painter "stubborn" he just teaches excellent man defense which is what the NBA teams play.

 

[Ignacious McNutt]

Zone never gonna happen even a team with athleticism VT was making the extra passes to get better shots.

Sorry I missed this before I posted something similar. Spot on assessment as usual, thank you.

 

[choptalk]

Zone never gonna happen even a team with athleticism VT was making the extra passes to get better shots.

Sorry I missed this before I posted something similar. Spot on assessment as usual, thank you.

Painter waited too long to bring back Eastern.
Carsen tried to do too much.
Haarms didn’t have much of a game.
In the second half we didn’t get to the Bonus until about 3 minutes left.
Painter should have pulled a GK and gotten T’d up. The calls the second half did not go our way at all.

 

[bonefish1]

Oh good Lord not this again. He doesn't go zone because we don't need to, it will have minimal to no impact and does not transition the NBA game, which many an announcer has said.

People on here that think zone is some magic bullet, need to borrow some money and buy a clue. With as fast and as athletic as we are as long as we aren't getting called for phantom fouls (which a zone won't prevent), our man defense is more than enough to be effective.

It's never happening here, no that doesn't make Painter "stubborn" he just teaches excellent man defense which is what the NBA teams play.

We’ve got 2 good on ball defenders and 2 turnstiles. The 2 turnstiles were getting abused in the second half. I’m not saying become Syracuse, I’m just saying change it up for a few possessions. Make the other team do something different because they had solved our man D and were just attacking every trip down. Zone will also help keep NE from picking up cheap fouls.

 

[Ignacious McNutt]

Zone will also help keep NE from picking up cheap fouls.

Lat night it wouldn't have with how the game was called. We don't need a zone, it isn't happening anyway and there is literally zero evidence it will help our team.

I mean just because it is done elsewhere doesn't mean it needs to be done here. Also if the game is called properly and the players stay to their assignment (which was more of the issue last night) then our man D would of been just fine.

 

[Boilerrush]

which is going on about 40 years, it seems like dribble penetration has been our nemesis.
We still lack the perimeter athletes that can not only stop dribble penetration but then do it to the other team.
Granted VT had 3 really good guards and we probably won’t see another team like them but they just really took advantage of our lack of lateral movement. I was impressed by those guys.

I still think if this was last years game, we get by 20. THis team played very well over all last night and I liked what I saw for the most part

 

[mathboy]

I also don’t know why Painter refuses to go zone periodically. Hell, they might shoot you out of it but at least give them a new look and make them adjust. See if you can knock them out of Rhythm. We were getting killed on the perimeter and VT was either getting to the rim, getting fouled or getting open 3’s.
As for not going inside: I think a lot of that had to do with VTs perimeter D and not allowing good looks at post feeds.

Thanks for the laugh Lenny. Good to know some things never change.

When a team can hit the three consistently, like VT last night, the last defense you want to use is the zone. That’s okay. Stay thirsty.

 

[PrintersRowBoiler]

Yes, Cline got exposed and yes that has always been our flaw. But we are getting more athletic at guard with NE one of the best defenders and CE a decent defender. it is tough when they have 3 guards that can do it and your best on ball defender is in foul trouble. I also think Eric Hunter could develop into a great defender, he is very athletic. And same can be said for Brandon Newman. I like Cline but unfortunately we are in a situation we ask him to do too much. He played a lot of minutes on a mismatch. Maybe by the end of season we could have the experience with RH, NE, and CE as 3 good athletic defenders when we play teams like VT. Of course, not being in foul trouble helps.

 

[bonefish1]

Thanks for the laugh Lenny. Good to know some things never change.

When a team can hit the three consistently, like VT last night, the last defense you want to use is the zone. That’s okay. Stay thirsty.

Do you think that their open 3's had anything to do with their ability to penetrate and kick it out? Duh.....

 

[bonefish1]

Lat night it wouldn't have with how the game was called. We don't need a zone, it isn't happening anyway and there is literally zero evidence it will help our team.

I mean just because it is done elsewhere doesn't mean it needs to be done here. Also if the game is called properly and the players stay to their assignment (which was more of the issue last night) then our man D would of been just fine.

There's zero evidence it wouldn't hurt the team either. Don't you think players staying to their assignment had a lot to do with the other guy being a much quicker athlete and a couple of our guys lacking lateral quickness? Cline knows his assignment, he just can stop a good quick ball handler.

 

[Ignacious McNutt]

Do you think that their open 3's had anything to do with their ability to penetrate and kick it out? Duh.....

Do you have any concept of how a zone even works? I mean they were kicking it around or defense more than anything else.

But... Okay bone, agree to disagree. But, fact remains zone is never coming here.

 

[BoilerDeac]

Matt Painter is a great coach but imo his biggest weakness is in game adjustments. We played great early and I think he had us in the right position for success. However, Buzz seemed to make more adjustments during the half and we came out a bit flat/stagnant. It's early and we will be fine. It was a good matchup to have at this point in the season.

he's not a great coach if he continuously gets out-coached in the in-game adjustments department. He's a good coach, but I don't know if I'd say great.

 

[mathboy]

There's zero evidence it wouldn't hurt the team either. Don't you think players staying to their assignment had a lot to do with the other guy being a much quicker athlete and a couple of our guys lacking lateral quickness? Cline knows his assignment, he just can stop a good quick ball handler.

at least twice when they were able to split the defenders, Cline was not involved. I don’t see the need to always find a scapegoat on our team to blame for the loss. It’s a loser mentality.

This whole mantra of player “x” is bad has got to end. I’m glad Painter doesn’t pay any attention to it. You win or lose with the players on your team. All the players. These are the fellows who are on your team. Let’s root for them.

 

[bonefish1]

Do you have any concept of how a zone even works? I mean they were kicking it around or defense more than anything else.

But... Okay bone, agree to disagree. But, fact remains zone is never coming here.

Yes, we used to play a zone in my day. As I said, you don't have to be Cuse, but changing things up when what you're doing isn't working is called 'adjusting'.
I realize we might never see it, but the question is 'why'? If the answer is that it's too tough to teach, I would argue that the man D Painter uses is much tougher to teach/execute.

 

[mathboy]

he's not a great coach if he continuously gets out-coached in the in-game adjustments department. He's a good coach, but I don't know if I'd say great.

If the refs call phantom fouls on your best players, you have to work with you have. Has it occurred to you that there may be no in game adjustments that would result in a win last night? Sometimes the other team is just better, no matter what you do.

I guess it is more fun to find blame rather than admit you got beat by a better team, even if we were playing 8 against 5.

 

[Ignacious McNutt]

Yes, we used to play a zone in my day. As I said, you don't have to be Cuse, but changing things up when what you're doing isn't working is called 'adjusting'.
I realize we might never see it, but the question is 'why'? If the answer is that it's too tough to teach, I would argue that the man D Painter uses is much tougher to teach/execute.

So you really think that how you did things 40 years ago remotely applies to today's game? And was it college level? If not then you are comparing eggs to boulders.

The answer to 'why' is because we simply don't need to. It would have such a minimal impact for our team that it would be simply a waste of time to even work on it. You want your best defense and for us, man is it and it is very effective.

 

[BoilerDeac]

If the refs call phantom fouls on your best players, you have to work with you have. Has it occurred to you that there may be no in game adjustments that would result in a win last night? Sometimes the other team is just better, no matter what you do.

I guess it is more fun to find blame rather than admit you got beat by a better team, even if we were playing 8 against 5.

ah, it's always the refs. Va Tech very well may have been a better team, but Painter got outcoached by Buzz in the second half.

Sucks Nojel got in foul trouble, but also sucks Painter didn't get him back in the game until the game was already lost.

 

[bonefish1]

If the refs call phantom fouls on your best players, you have to work with you have. Has it occurred to you that there may be no in game adjustments that would result in a win last night? Sometimes the other team is just better, no matter what you do.

I guess it is more fun to find blame rather than admit you got beat by a better team, even if we were playing 8 against 5.

I loved VT's team. Their guards are really good, probably at least 2 NBA players there. Carson was still the best player on the floor but the next best 2 were VT players. Overall talent-wise, they were probably better 2-5. We hit a bunch of 3s to build the lead and keep it close in the 2nd half but we had zero post play and Haarms had no impact.
Being tied at 77 before a questionable backbreaking 'and-1' sealed the game.
It was a tourny like atmosphere and our team will learn from this loss.

 

[Chi-Boiler]

Why does it seem like whenever we lose someone cries that we should play a zone? It's not going to happen because the M2M is a staple of the Purdue defense.

The way VT was shooting in the 2nd half a zone wouldn't have done a damn thing. And the way every nickel and dime call went against us didn't help. Then there's the classic replay of Eifert that clearly showed that he was fouled but they of course can't change that. That's my wish for a change in the rulebook with replay.

I was disappointed by our lack of movement on offense. The thing I was worried about this season was a lot of standing around either looking for Carsen or looking at him. He's certainly not going to back down and he shouldn't, but the 2nd half was not his finest hour and more balance was needed.

 

[Treed1967]

Yes, we used to play a zone in my day. As I said, you don't have to be Cuse, but changing things up when what you're doing isn't working is called 'adjusting'.
I realize we might never see it, but the question is 'why'? If the answer is that it's too tough to teach, I would argue that the man D Painter uses is much tougher to teach/execute.

A zone really doesn’t solve all problems. My son HS coach don’t play zone much at all he taught defensive principles painter does the same. Duke played zone and still lost Syracuse plays zone and lost 2 back to back games and got beat at there own game. A zone may slow a team down or keep some players out of foul trouble but it can be broken and scored on as well and still may not solve defensive issues. Purdue was playing pretty good defense in 1st half and 2nd half VT made some adjustments found a couple mis matches and took what out defense gave them. They actually moved the ball extremly well on quickly and no matter how you closed out on a defender even being an extremely athletic defender would not have mattered they tamped up there pressure defense caused us to turn it over at the wrong time in the game and they capitalized on our t/o. Ball movement was really good they made shots in crunch time that were wide open shots that to me made the difference in the game. Was officiating a little lopsided somewhat but not the reason we lost that game bcuz Purdue could have won that game by 7/8 points just to many rushed shots at the 3 point line instead of attacking the basket why I said spread the offense out to players who can do that well and we may have ran out of gas some too. No excuses that game was Purdue to have bad sequences in the end and not enough ball movement like it was early 1st half. What I saw from this team they competed wasn’t afraid of the moment even when it got tight I’m proud of all of them how they had VT scared out of there minds they were on the verge of loosing that game. It’s 5 games into the season they will get better. Oh by the way I can assure u there are not many teams in the big 10 with 4/5 guards that athletic that Purdue will face this season trust me. This was a good test for this team bcuz when tournament time come they would have already had a taste of this kinda loss and be more prepared to play a team like this that have athletes galore. They gonna be alright trust me this wasn’t a bad loss at all.

 

[*4purdue*]

Matt Painter is a great coach but imo his biggest weakness is in game adjustments. We played great early and I think he had us in the right position for success. However, Buzz seemed to make more adjustments during the half and we came out a bit flat/stagnant. It's early and we will be fine. It was a good matchup to have at this point in the season.

Painter is not a great coach... He's been a good recruiter and a good eye for talent as we've had NBA players. He's not a good game coach as we have given away big leads in games year after year. He is what he is... 14 years is a pretty good sample size.

 

[tjreese]

A zone really doesn’t solve all problems. My son HS coach don’t play zone much at all he taught defensive principles painter does the same. Duke played zone and still lost Syracuse plays zone and lost 2 back to back games and got beat at there own game. A zone may slow a team down or keep some players out of foul trouble but it can be broken and scored on as well and still may not solve defensive issues. Purdue was playing pretty good defense in 1st half and 2nd half VT made some adjustments found a couple mis matches and took what out defense gave them. They actually moved the ball extremly well on quickly and no matter how you closed out on a defender even being an extremely athletic defender would not have mattered they tamped up there pressure defense caused us to turn it over at the wrong time in the game and they capitalized on our t/o. Ball movement was really good they made shots in crunch time that were wide open shots that to me made the difference in the game. Was officiating a little lopsided somewhat but not the reason we lost that game bcuz Purdue could have won that game by 7/8 points just to many rushed shots at the 3 point line instead of attacking the basket why I said spread the offense out to players who can do that well and we may have ran out of gas some too. No excuses that game was Purdue to have bad sequences in the end and not enough ball movement like it was early 1st half. What I saw from this team they competed wasn’t afraid of the moment even when it got tight I’m proud of all of them how they had VT scared out of there minds they were on the verge of loosing that game. It’s 5 games into the season they will get better. Oh by the way I can assure u there are not many teams in the big 10 with 4/5 guards that athletic that Purdue will face this season trust me. This was a good test for this team bcuz when tournament time come they would have already had a taste of this kinda loss and be more prepared to play a team like this that have athletes galore. They gonna be alright trust me this wasn’t a bad loss at all.

What i really liked was your comment, "just to many rushed shots at the 3 point line instead of attacking the basket ."

when you live on the three ball too much you lose your aggressiveness. It is a passive play that looks pretty, but sometimes you want that ugly play with results mixed in from aggression in attacking the basket, by player driving AND passing down low. They extended the D sorta like Texas Tech did last year, except this year there were perhaps a few more drives. Still, they extended the D adn had Purdue on its heels...doubled up on Carsen to force a bad shot or for him to give it up. Lat year NO Haas to keep their D honest..this year no Haarms to keep their D honest. Kinda like not being able to run the ball in football, they just tee off on the QB. Just win...an ugly win is better than a pretty loss. Kids are young and will improve, but Purdue is not going to become good when the three ball consumes so much attention...

 

[SegregationOfDuties]

he's not a great coach if he continuously gets out-coached in the in-game adjustments department. He's a good coach, but I don't know if I'd say great.

Our definition of great may vary but there aren't many coaches in the nation that are better than CMP. He has his flaws but Coach K is not going to walk through our doors anytime soon.

 

[bonefish1]

Our definition of great may vary but there aren't many coaches in the nation that are better than CMP. He has his flaws but Coach K is not going to walk through our doors anytime soon.

"Great' coaches get past the Sweet 16 in 14 years. Painter is good, not great.
He'll win a lot of B10 games, but until he has sustained tourney success, you can't put him in the great category.