Fist coaches poll out

[punaj]

Purdue at #24

http://sportspolls.usatoday.com/ncaa/basketball-men/polls/coaches-poll

I get the IU love at #15, as they have most of their team back, but not Wisky. They lost so much.

 

[proudopete]

Purdue at #24

http://sportspolls.usatoday.com/ncaa/basketball-men/polls/coaches-poll

I get the IU love at #15, as they have most of their team back, but not Wisky. They lost so much.

IU has most of their team back? Didn't they lose five guys or so?

They also will rely heavily on a freshman who has already been in trouble the first week of school and injured the first week of practice.

But sure. They are top 15.

 

[FinallyABoilerFinal4]

Dammit. Purdue needs to be off these things completely for max motivation. #24 overall and 5th best B1G team is only 3 quarters motivation.

 

[punaj]

IU has most of their team back? Didn't they lose five guys or so?

Sorry, that is poorly worded on my part. I guess what I meant was that they have most of their core or starters back - Yogi, JBJ, RJ, and Williams. As you said, they did lose a lot of guys. As for Wisky, they lost some major talent from their team.

 

[punaj]

But sure. They are top 15.

And no, I personally do not believe they are top 15. This is the standard deal here in October for the preseason buzz around IU. I have a few good IU friends and we argue every year about the polls, who is better, etc. It's been pretty nice since Crean has taken over and they get to eat crow by the end of the B1G season. I don't think it will be any different this year.

 

[proudopete]

Sorry, that is poorly worded on my part. I guess what I meant was that they have most of their core or starters back - Yogi, JBJ, RJ, and Williams. As you said, they did lose a lot of guys. As for Wisky, they lost some major talent from their team.

I wasn't attacking you. I apologize if it sounded that way.

I really don't see how the team that lost 10 games out of the last 15, finished 7th in the B1G, lost all of the little depth they had in the post, add one guy expected to do anything,who will be a frosh, and jump to top 15?

Has to be click bait for the mouth breathers.

 

[GenevaSteve]

B1G coaches picked Purdue 3rd, MSU 4th and Wisky 6th so the coaches that do know put a different slant on things than those that do not. Wisky and MSU and there because of last year though I do not doubt MSU will be good.

 

[FinallyABoilerFinal4]

IU returns their top 6 minute guys. 6 guys who accounted for 67 of their 76 points (88%) in their Tournament game against Wichita State that they were within 1 point at the 2 minute mark. So they brought back all of their important pieces from a team that was good enough to make the Tourney and hang with the Sweet 16 Shockers. They brought in upper level, not quite elite, transfers and Freshman to compliment them. Those guys fit nicely as reserves. I see no problem putting the Hoosiers in the Top 15, Top 10, or even Top 5. My problem is the Boilers not being slotted anywhere close to that.

 

[QuadBoiler2014]

IU returns their top 6 minute guys. 6 guys who accounted for 67 of their 76 points (88%) in their Tournament game against Wichita State that they were within 1 point at the 2 minute mark. So they brought back all of their important pieces from a team that was good enough to make the Tourney and hang with the Sweet 16 Shockers. They brought in upper level, not quite elite, transfers and Freshman to compliment them. Those guys fit nicely as reserves. I see no problem putting the Hoosiers in the Top 15, Top 10, or even Top 5. My problem is the Boilers not being slotted anywhere close to that.

I agree with you that IU brought main pieces back. In pure % of most things like points, rebounds, assists etc. IU returns just a little less than Purdue, and Purdue returns about 80% or better of every statistical category.

They didn't bring in any elite or upper level freshman or transfers besides Bryant.

They have their starting 5, which is a very very strong and dangerous starting 5, and then 2 subs whose only positive is they are good at shooting 3s. Their freshman were sub top 100 players outside of bryant and Beilfeldt was a 6pt, 5 reb 6-7 center for a 16-16 team that won 5 games without Caris LeVert. He will not do much for them this year.

IU has 7 players that will hurt you and then nothing else and absolutely no size outside of bryant.

IU should be around 19, not 15.

 

[pboiler18]

Yeah Max Bielfeldt isn't elite in anything other than pine sitting.

 

[proudopete]

IU returns their top 6 minute guys. 6 guys who accounted for 67 of their 76 points (88%) in their Tournament game against Wichita State that they were within 1 point at the 2 minute mark. So they brought back all of their important pieces from a team that was good enough to make the Tourney and hang with the Sweet 16 Shockers. They brought in upper level, not quite elite, transfers and Freshman to compliment them. Those guys fit nicely as reserves. I see no problem putting the Hoosiers in the Top 15, Top 10, or even Top 5. My problem is the Boilers not being slotted anywhere close to that.

Last time I checked, it was still a team game that involves strategy.

Although IU has skilled players at every position in the starting five. They still have to play more as a team then last year. They may have scored a bunch of points. But they also lost a lot of games heading into the tourney.

Perhaps a frosh will be the missing piece that makes them play at a high level consistently. But I am a skeptic, especially given the lack of leadership they have and the abnormal amount of off court issues since April.

I would put them right around 25 and make them prove they are top 15 just like we will have to do.

 

[SqueakyClean]

There is absolutely only one difference between IU and Purdue as to why they are ranked 15th(ish) and we are 25th(ish): The Curse of North Florida / Gardener-Webb.
IU only had one flub game last year (E. Washington), while we had two. E. Washington and North Florida were really about equivalent losses, but the Gardener-Webb loss really put Purdue behind the 8-ball both RPI and perception-wise.

Media and analysts still have those games in memory and have a mentality that "Well, Purdue was much improved....but they still lost to Gardener-Webb last year...". It "proves" that we still were an inconsistent team (even though we fans know that it was more of just a team jelling as the year progressed). We had no really big preseason wins while IU had the SMU game to point to.

I kinda equate it to the Auburn football team back in 2005 (I think that is the right year). That was the year that there were 5 undefeated teams at the end of the year, and Auburn was left out of the BCS game simply because the previous year they were a 5-loss team and started unranked at the beginning of the season. They were likely the best team that year, but nobody recognized it up front and the teams that ended 1 & 2 never lost to let Auburn take over that spot. Basketball is obviously a different situation with the tournament for determining the champion, but the concept is still the same.

 

[FinallyABoilerFinal4]

You don't judge a sub by per game averages. You judge them by per 40 minutes. Nigel Hayes averaged 7.7 ppg and 2.8 rebounds per game as Freshman coming off the bench for Wisconsin. There's no way a 7 & 2 guy is elite, right? Oh...Nigel's points per 40 as a Freshman jumped all the way up to 17.6. Did he turn out to have elite per game production once he became a starter as a Sophomore?

If you look at Beilfeldt's per 40 minute stats, he was 3rd on Michigan with 14.2 points per 40 and 1st in rebounds at 10 per 40. That looks an awful lot like elite production. Nice guy to have on the bench.

 

[SIBoiler2]

IU's ratings are driven by ancient history and the drivel/slobber of ancient pundits like Dicky V. I'm fine with the rankings the way they are. I believe we've got more upside than our rankings show and most of us believe IU has more downside with where they are ranked. I'd rather be where we are and get to or past the Sweet 16 than be where they are and end up in the lower 1/2 of the B1G and out before the Sweet 16.

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

There is absolutely only one difference between IU and Purdue as to why they are ranked 15th(ish) and we are 25th(ish): The Curse of North Florida / Gardener-Webb.
IU only had one flub game last year (E. Washington), while we had two. E. Washington and North Florida were really about equivalent losses, but the Gardener-Webb loss really put Purdue behind the 8-ball both RPI and perception-wise.

Media and analysts still have those games in memory and have a mentality that "Well, Purdue was much improved....but they still lost to Gardener-Webb last year...". It "proves" that we still were an inconsistent team (even though we fans know that it was more of just a team jelling as the year progressed). We had no really big preseason wins while IU had the SMU game to point to.

I kinda equate it to the Auburn football team back in 2005 (I think that is the right year). That was the year that there were 5 undefeated teams at the end of the year, and Auburn was left out of the BCS game simply because the previous year they were a 5-loss team and started unranked at the beginning of the season. They were likely the best team that year, but nobody recognized it up front and the teams that ended 1 & 2 never lost to let Auburn take over that spot. Basketball is obviously a different situation with the tournament for determining the champion, but the concept is still the same.

Interesting comparison concerning polls to the Auburn team in 2004. The polls actually mean less and less in regards to NCAA Basketball, certainly less than in the BCS football era where it was a major component of the BCS standings.

Back to the Boilers, I can certainly see the reasoning for where several teams were ranked, and I understand the conference predictions could/should factor in the schedule. I don't quite see where that (ease of conference schedule) should automatically translate to ranking, but I get the temptation to lean that way.

Until Purdue has some meaningful and tangible post season success, the tendency will be to be overlooked in some cases......JMHO. The Boilers will have their chance to prove it on the court.....that will settle it one way or the other. Until they do, don't be surprised......JMHO.

In any case, it's refreshing to see Purdue in the rankings conversation again.

 

[pboiler18]

You don't judge a sub by per game averages. You judge them by per 40 minutes. Nigel Hayes averaged 7.7 ppg and 2.8 rebounds per game as Freshman coming off the bench for Wisconsin. There's no way a 7 & 2 guy is elite, right? Oh...Nigel's points per 40 as a Freshman jumped all the way up to 17.6. Did he turn out to have elite per game production once he became a starter as a Sophomore?

If you look at Beilfeldt's per 40 minute stats, he was 3rd on Michigan with 14.2 points per 40 and 1st in rebounds at 10 per 40. That looks an awful lot like elite production. Nice guy to have on the bench.

Lost his starting job...and really his backup job by the time he left Michigan. What's impressive about that?

He's a sub, and really the only sub you have at the 5 spot. I can't wait til we dominate IU down low for the 3rd straight year!

 

[Summy1]

Nice to see Purdue ranked again just like the good old days Looking forward to a fun season.

 

[Da_Bull]

I agree with you that IU brought main pieces back. In pure % of most things like points, rebounds, assists etc. IU returns just a little less than Purdue, and Purdue returns about 80% or better of every statistical category.

They didn't bring in any elite or upper level freshman or transfers besides Bryant.

They have their starting 5, which is a very very strong and dangerous starting 5, and then 2 subs whose only positive is they are good at shooting 3s. Their freshman were sub top 100 players outside of bryant and Beilfeldt was a 6pt, 5 reb 6-7 center for a 16-16 team that won 5 games without Caris LeVert. He will not do much for them this year.

IU has 7 players that will hurt you and then nothing else and absolutely no size outside of bryant.

IU should be around 19, not 15.

I still think the difference between the two is IU brought in a fairly high rated Freshman center, a piece they were missing. You guys brought in Hill, a not so highly rated SR transfer who's bounced around from school to school without that great of numbers. Now he could be just fine and pull an Ocetus and be a fine PG with better talent around him, but on paper the additions are different between the two schools. I'd say thats the way the media is looking at this right now.

 

[PU pit bull]

I still think the difference between the two is IU brought in a fairly high rated Freshman center, a piece they were missing. You guys brought in Hill, a not so highly rated SR transfer who's bounced around from school to school without that great of numbers. Now he could be just fine and pull an Ocetus and be a fine PG with better talent around him, but on paper the additions are different between the two schools. I'd say thats the way the media is looking at this right now.

You mean your no experience freshman center, who has foot problems..........see how I spun that?

 

[gd4now]

Was not the new (freshman) big PU brought in rated higher than the one IU did? Yet you do not mention this at all.

 

[Da_Bull]

Was not the new (freshman) big PU brought in rated higher than the one IU did? Yet you do not mention this at all.

Because that wasnt a big need for you guys. You already had Edwards, Hammons, Haas on the inside, swanigan will be good but his impact wont be as noticable as if you had gotten a PG of the same caliber. You still have a questionable backcourt and subsequent backcourt depth. It'd be like us adding another talented freshman guard instead of bryant, good for us but it wouldnt have fixed the hole with just Bielfeldt at the 5. Again im not trying to say this is why we'll be better just why the preseason perception is different between IU and PU. Has nothing to do wth more clicks or underrating Purdue.

 

[pboiler18]

We had an insanely young backcourt last year that got better as the year went on... And added maybe the best pure shooter in the class and now our other 2 guards are a year older and improved.

We were better than IU last year and losing Jon Octeus isn't going to change that.

 

[Da_Bull]

We had an insanely young backcourt last year that got better as the year went on... And added maybe the best pure shooter in the class and now our other 2 guards are a year older and improved.

We were better than IU last year and losing Jon Octeus isn't going to change that.

Octeus was a SR and wasn't Davis a Jr last year? I do want to see what a healthy Stephens can do.

 

[mathboy]

Preseason polls are a bit of a shot in the dark. I really have no issue with the name schools going to the top of the list, etc. I do think it's funny that a school like Wisconsin can lose all five of their top scorers and still make the list. Contrast that with IU that brought everybody back, except the one player where they were fatally weak (center). They brought everybody back from a team that was essentially unranked at the end of the season and finished 7th in the BIG. So tell me again the logic that puts both Wisconsin and IU in the top 15?

Certainly this logic is beyond me to figure out. You can make arguments for either team, individually. However, when you put both together in the same poll, the arguments are contradictory.

 

[pboiler18]

Octeus was a SR and wasn't Davis a Jr last year? I do want to see what a healthy Stephens can do.

Davis played the 3 last year. Mathias (a true FR) and Stephens (a true SO) got a majority of the minutes there, although Davis would slide up and play the 2 sometimes to let Smotherman play the 3

 

[Da_Bull]

Davis played the 3 last year. Mathias (a true FR) and Stephens (a true SO) got a majority of the minutes there, although Davis would slide up and play the 2 sometimes to let Smotherman play the 3

Whats the starting 5 looking like next year? Hammons, Swan, Edwards, davis, hill? or Hammons swan Edwards, hill, stephens? Could Mathias start at the point? Depends on matchups?

 

[punaj]

Whats the starting 5 looking like next year? Hammons, Swan, Edwards, davis, hill? or Hammons swan Edwards, hill, stephens? Could Mathias start at the point? Depends on matchups?

That's a heavily talked about question here... and I don't think anyone really knows. That said, I would expect to see all of those combinations, maybe not starting, but on the floor at the same time.

 

[feulner]

That's a heavily talked about question here... and I don't think anyone really knows. That said, I would expect to see all of those combinations, maybe not starting, but on the floor at the same time.

Hammons/Swanigan/Edwards/Davis/Hill or PJ.

It seems like that's locked in except for the PG position where there's two good options. With this line-up, there may or may not be enough shooting, so Painter expects to be zoned basically all the time. Pound the ball inside, smother on defense, bring in the shooters later to demoralize. Folks like talking about Mathias at the point because he's very skilled, but he's not really equipped to defend the position.

Haas primary back-up for Hammons, Swanigan too when Purdue is getting fouled at the end of games, says Painter.
Swanigan and Edwards will split time at PF.
Stephens/Mathias/maybe Cline and Smotherman rotate in for Davis and Edwards at SG and SF.
Hill and PJ split PG time.

 

[Da_Bull]

Folks like talking about Mathias at the point because he's very skilled, but he's not really equipped to defend the position.

Thats the beauty of having a great front court, so Mathias gets blown by at the top of the key, they gonna go into the trees like Yogi? If it were me Hammons, swan, edwards, davis, mathias until you see how Hill does. Bringing stephens off the bench to shoot, edwards and davis can slide down, lots of options.

 

[*4purdue*]

You don't judge a sub by per game averages. You judge them by per 40 minutes. Nigel Hayes averaged 7.7 ppg and 2.8 rebounds per game as Freshman coming off the bench for Wisconsin. There's no way a 7 & 2 guy is elite, right? Oh...Nigel's points per 40 as a Freshman jumped all the way up to 17.6. Did he turn out to have elite per game production once he became a starter as a Sophomore?

If you look at Beilfeldt's per 40 minute stats, he was 3rd on Michigan with 14.2 points per 40 and 1st in rebounds at 10 per 40. That looks an awful lot like elite production. Nice guy to have on the bench.

He was the only big on a bad team. If he sees the floor for more than 5 min. a game for IU, then IU is going to be in trouble this year.

 

[Da_Bull]

He was the only big on a bad team. If he sees the floor for more than 5 min. a game for IU, then IU is going to be in trouble this year.

He basically split time with Ricky doyle, averaged more rebounds with fewer minutes, similar pts. Here's an interesting comparison:

Perea: 19.4min/6.5pts/4.3rbs
Beilfeldt 14.5min/5.1pts/3.6rbs

per40
Perea 13.4pts/8.9rbs
Beilfeldt 14.1pts/9.9rbs

He gives us that for 10-15mins i'll be happy.

 

[*4purdue*]

As I said, different players, different teams. Very difficult to compare. IU was a much better shooting team then UM. Honestly, I don't think Perea was a very good player. Is Beifeldt as good? Maybe, no where near as athletic & played out of position at center last year & will again this year.

 

[feulner]

Thats the beauty of having a great front court, so Mathias gets blown by at the top of the key, they gonna go into the trees like Yogi? If it were me Hammons, swan, edwards, davis, mathias until you see how Hill does. Bringing stephens off the bench to shoot, edwards and davis can slide down, lots of options.

Painter likes to apply pressure to the PG everywhere on the floor, though. Taking a team out of their offensive rhythm starts there. Not sure Mathias can do what Painter wants to do at that position. And Yogi will just shoot if you can't stay with him, not just drive.

 

[QuadBoiler2014]

Painter likes to apply pressure to the PG everywhere on the floor, though. Taking a team out of their offensive rhythm starts there. Not sure Mathias can do what Painter wants to do at that position. And Yogi will just shoot if you can't stay with him, not just drive.

If PJ shows that he can find our players, take care of the ball and not be a liability on either O or D, then I say put that man on the floor for as long as he can handle or until things stop working.

I penciled Hill in as the starter when we landed him and nearly everyone else did as well, but it sounds like those opinions only put logs on the PJ determination fire. Hill is taller, stronger, longer and is fairly quick with the ball, but if PJ can match what he is doing and add in some 3pt threat, then that works in the lineup 10x better.

A 3 pt shooter at the PG spot is just what this team needs.

Excited to hear who comes out the winner on the first game of the season.

Ray, Vince, Biggie and Hammons are near locks to start.

 

[BigRed3588]

IU is ranked where they are because their offense was top 10 last year and they return almost all of it. If, and it's a big if, they learned to play defense then it's a fair ranking. If not, it won't take long to figure out. IU has potentially 4 games against top 25 teams in their OOC schedule.

 

[Da_Bull]

You don't judge a sub by per game averages. You judge them by per 40 minutes. Nigel Hayes averaged 7.7 ppg and 2.8 rebounds per game as Freshman coming off the bench for Wisconsin. There's no way a 7 & 2 guy is elite, right? Oh...Nigel's points per 40 as a Freshman jumped all the way up to 17.6. Did he turn out to have elite per game production once he became a starter as a Sophomore?

If you look at Beilfeldt's per 40 minute stats, he was 3rd on Michigan with 14.2 points per 40 and 1st in rebounds at 10 per 40. That looks an awful lot like elite production. Nice guy to have on the bench.

This guy knows what he's talking about

He basically split time with Ricky doyle, averaged more rebounds with fewer minutes, similar pts. Here's an interesting comparison:

Perea: 19.4min/6.5pts/4.3rbs
Beilfeldt 14.5min/5.1pts/3.6rbs

per40
Perea 13.4pts/8.9rbs
Beilfeldt 14.1pts/9.9rbs

He gives us that for 10-15mins i'll be happy.

I'm happy.

 

[purdue4sure]

This guy knows what he's talking about



I'm happy.

LOL. What makes you happy is really sad. Your bookmarks are obviously filled with Purdue-related stuff.