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DAG10

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I’m not overly concerned with the ranking number but stats don’t lie on 5star kids on a roster and making final fours. With that said, if the market is shifting around you and these kids aren’t loyal, why do you show them any loyalty?

Perhaps we are all wrong and the teams competing for the title in the next few years will be the ones who don’t pony up massive deals to get kids. Maybe it is the programs who get solid players who will stick around 3 years or more. Those are the kids who are bigger and more mature who bully young “superstars” when tourney time comes around.

Just spitballing.
It would be awesome if it turned out to be true, but, that is way more than "just spitballing"...that is some genuine pie-in-the-sky dreaming is my guess.

Purdue is about to get to see what it feels like to be Vanderbilt is my fear, and, I fear that being way more realistic than what you suggest unfortunately. Admittedly, I hope that I am wrong...and hope more so that you are somehow right...but, I would be lying if I said that I really bought into it.
 

TX4GB

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Too bad we backed off of Parker Friedrichsen after DGL committed. Remember CMP flying to Oklahoma and then DGL committed to us. Might be too late to get back in that race.
 

DAG10

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Fair but how many of us knew who Carsen Edwards was before we offered?
Fair also, but, who does Purdue have on the radar that is Carsen Edwards to replace DGL?

And, my guess is that if they do have someone, it is someone more obscure than not, and, even if they do have someone in that regard that somehow makes us as fans not lament losing DGL, that, with NIL and the transfer portal, the odds of said guy being at Purdue opposed to going home (which Carsen admitted wanting to do) for 3 years and carrying them on some magical NCAA run is less likely than more so.
 

ChoiceBeef

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Correct, but the transfer portal is a mess as well. This won't fully take shape until these kids set foot on a court.
That is a fair point. @DAG10 lumps in here too with similar concerns.

I’m not losing sleep until we see how the 22-23 season pans out. Perhaps the teams with the largest pay packages end up winning the title or perhaps teams with kids who are there to win and don’t have large pay packages end up there. I don’t know what the answer is so I’ll go with a wait and see.
 

DAG10

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Or Ivey..let's be honest we thought he would be good, but not top 5 draft good. He definitely outplayed his recruiting ranking😉
Ivey had shown flashes, and, geography played a huge role also...no way that anyone expected what happened, but, no way Purdue gets him if his Mom is still in Memphis as a coach rather than back at ND.
 

SCBoiler1

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Izzo had great success WAY before Dawson though...and, it was not because he played loose with the rules.

Later on...in cases like Dawson...when he was no longer securing the talent that he had...he absolutely made sacrifices, but, not initially while he was building the national power that he did.

The pressure to maintain (or approach even) what he had built led him to more or less selling his soul...but, he built a power through relentless recruiting and great coaching that made him a media darling and that has made him a household name and nationally celebrated coach.
Looked it up this morning on 247. Since Painter's been coaching Purdue, he's had 5 top 50 recruits. One redshirted last year (TKR), Biggie and three that signed 15 years ago. Heck in the last 6 years Purdue has only had 4 top 100 guys (Ivey, Eastern, Furst and TKR).

During Painters reign Izzo's had 22 top 50 guys.

I think Painter, just like Keady, gets the most out of what he has but I don't know if I would call him a great recruiter.
 

Poprudy

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I don't want to go off on some tangent or down any rabbit holes, but, just out of curiosity for the moment...what does "always come through" mean? In what respect?

And, regardless of the answer, NIL likely renders it irrelevant.
Winning consistently with less talent. We are recruiting at our normal clip. We thought that Edwards and Ivey would make it easier on Painter, but the NIL takes shape.

I get the NIL failure on Purdue, but I still trust Painter. Maybe, I shouldn't have that much faith in him???
 

pubill

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Looked it up this morning on 247. Since Painter's been coaching Purdue, he's had 5 top 50 recruits. One redshirted last year (TKR), Biggie and three that signed 15 years ago. Heck in the last 6 years Purdue has only had 4 top 100 guys (Ivey, Eastern, Furst and TKR).

During Painters reign Izzo's had 22 top 50 guys.

I think Painter, just like Keady, gets the most out of what he has but I don't know if I would call him a great recruiter.
Again, if Painter could and would play by rules,Izzo plays by, I think Matt is better at locating talent and thus would out recruit him, but Purdue will never play by those rules.
 

Poprudy

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Ivey had shown flashes, and, geography played a huge role also...no way that anyone expected what happened, but, no way Purdue gets him if his Mom is still in Memphis as a coach rather than back at ND.
He should've been ND's to lose. You just got to give Painter credit for his recruitment. Painter has been successful with top 125 recruits.

That's why I'm not really worried until these recruits get on the court. We've been out recruited for years and still compete for the B1G every year.
 

DAG10

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Looked it up this morning on 247. Since Painter's been coaching Purdue, he's had 5 top 50 recruits. One redshirted last year (TKR), Biggie and three that signed 15 years ago. Heck in the last 6 years Purdue has only had 4 top 100 guys (Ivey, Eastern, Furst and TKR).

During Painters reign Izzo's had 22 top 50 guys.

I think Painter, just like Keady, gets the most out of what he has but I don't know if I would call him a great recruiter.
If he were to get the "great" label in any way with respect to recruiting, it would be in recruiting guys that fit him/his style/his program opposed to landing elite guys.

And, regardless, with NIL...it is irrelevant as things stand unfortunately.

Again...it is not that he "can't recruit"...he has had some success with respect to some really talented guys, but, with guys that he was able to win with (but, largely included at least an elite guy of some sort in doing so).

He has not had success with elite national talent, and, he has not been able to have any sustained success either...he has had a less than ideal model of having to land a stellar class every couple of years...to this point he had managed to somehow pull it off more often than not, and, deserves credit for that, but, it was not a good model.

Now...with NIL..I don't think any of it matters...at least for him/Purdue.
 
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Boiler Buck

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How many B1G crowns has Purdue won with that model in recent years?

Two I believe. 2010 with JJ & 2017 with Haas @ center.

Yes, both teams had talent @ other positions besides a big center.

Still your point becomes more valid in the future with 18+ teams. Not likely a senario that will work. Championship odds lower for Purdue as conference grows.
 

Poprudy

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If he were to get the "great" label in any way with respect to recruiting, it would be in recruiting guys that fit him/his style/his program opposed to landing elite guys.

And, regardless, with NIL...it is irrelevant as things stand unfortunately.

Again...it is not that he "can't recruit"...he has had some success with respect to some really talented guys, but, with guys that he was able to win with (but, largely included at least an elite guy of some sort in doing so).

He has not had success with elite national talent, and, he has not been able to have any sustained success either...he has had a less than ideal model of having to land a stellar class every couple of years...to this point he had managed to somehow pull it off more often than not, and, deserves credit for that, but, it was not a good model.

Now...with NIL..I don't think any of it matters...at least for him/Purdue.
You don't think 4 out 5 tournament Sweet 16's is sustainable success? I wonder how many programs can say that in those same 5 years.

I guess, I see it differently.
 

DAG10

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Again, if Painter could and would play by rules,Izzo plays by, I think Matt is better at locating talent and thus would out recruit him, but Purdue will never play by those rules.
Painter has always been great about locating and identifying talent, but, it is more than "loose rules" that his kept him from ultimately landing it...there were no loose rules for a lot of guys that he ultimately lost out on, to Izzo or others...there were times where it did come into play, but, it was far less often than not.

Choosing to not play loosely with rules was one thing and it did have consequences...choosing to not get involved with NIL which is now within the rules is something entirely different...it is not Painter's fault, or even his call, but, the consequences are far greater.

I am fine with Painter not playing loosely with the rules...awesome...like say, there were consequences, but, so be it. I am even fine with them not wanting to play in the NIL world...disappointed, but, fine with it...but, again, the consequences are much greater.

I can't say that Matt was any better at identifying talent than Izzo...but, there is no question that Izzo was/is better at actually recruiting...and, in his case, his done it on a national scale for that matter...Matt has not.
 

DAG10

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You don't think 4 out 5 tournament Sweet 16's is sustainable success? I wonder how many programs can say that in those same 5 years.

I guess, I see it differently.
Purdue made the Sweet 16 this year, but, there is literally no way that this year could be deemed a success...literally no way.

For that matter...and, I am not trying to knock anyone or take this in another direction or whatever, but, I would guess that if there are other teams with that same resume that you are pointing at/to, that, odds are they actually advanced past that more than just once. I admittedly have no idea, and, could be completely wrong as such, but, I am just guessing that it may be the case.

Finally...when realizing that the only legacy Big 10 members to not appear in a Final Four in the last 40+ years are Northwestern, Iowa and Purdue, that says way more than appearing in the Sweet 16 4 times in 5 years when it comes to NCAA tournament "success."
 

DAG10

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Winning consistently with less talent. We are recruiting at our normal clip. We thought that Edwards and Ivey would make it easier on Painter, but the NIL takes shape.

I get the NIL failure on Purdue, but I still trust Painter. Maybe, I shouldn't have that much faith in him???
I said it elsewhere...NIL is not Painter's fault...nor can it in any way be held against him.

I am fine with your response as to what you deemed "always coming through"...I think it is a really low bar admittedly, as, while Purdue has won a whole lot of games during his time, they really don't have much to show for it in terms of conference championships or tournament success, which, to me are what he should be measured on, or, at least in part.

I mean, Purdue has had two teams in the past 5 years that were 30-win teams that were top-10 nationally for the course of the entire season that failed to win the regular season conference, post-season conference, and, advance past the Sweet 16...to me, that is not "always coming through", and, it does not even account for epic tournament fails like UALR, North Texas and St. Peter's.

So, I don't know that having faith in him was/is misguided...I admittedly do not have the same faith (largely because of what I outlined, and, namely for the epic tournament fails in particular), but, that does not mean that I don't like him (I do), or that I don't think that he can coach (I do)...or, that I think he is an awful human being and coach (I don't)...but, me personally, I don't subscribe to that same notion that he has "always come through"...and, as it stands, with NIL...he simply won't be able to come through barring a virtual miracle...that said, seeing as Purdue has never been able to come through as it had been, maybe a miracle is what is required!
 
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FirstDownB

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Is this decomit and the transfer portal whiff in a span of a few months a springboard for another "Painter to Mizzou" type situation to force the administration to get off their duffs and competitively fund the basketball program? I don't think Painter has the power at his level to convince donor money to be directed to a NIL war chest for recruiting purposes. But he could make his demands known to a higher authority.
 
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DAG10

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Is this decomit and the transfer portal whiff in a span of a few months a springboard for another "Painter to Mizzou" type situation to force the administration to get off their duffs and competitively fund the basketball program? I don't think Painter has the power at his level to convince donor money to be directed to a NIL war chest for recruiting purposes. But he could make his demands known to a higher authority.
I don't think that it is...I could see it leading to Matt leaving, either for another school, or, just retiring, but, I don't think there is any pressure that he can impose that will change Purdue's thoughts on the matter...they made their decision(s) already...Purdue has long made it clear where they stand on "arms races" with respect to college sports, and, that is not going to change, regardless of how much pressure is imposed.
 
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DAG10

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Looked it up this morning on 247. Since Painter's been coaching Purdue, he's had 5 top 50 recruits. One redshirted last year (TKR), Biggie and three that signed 15 years ago. Heck in the last 6 years Purdue has only had 4 top 100 guys (Ivey, Eastern, Furst and TKR).

During Painters reign Izzo's had 22 top 50 guys.

I think Painter, just like Keady, gets the most out of what he has but I don't know if I would call him a great recruiter.
A side note...and, a tangent admittedly.

TKR is the lone outlier, and, even in his case...geography was a key contributing factor in the ultimate decision. That does not render it meaningless though, as, it was also a reason why he may have gone to Indinia or even Kentucky.

But, Biggie was solely a case of Roosevelt's ties to Purdue and involvement, and, the other 3 were a result of like the absolute perfect storm of circumstances. Those guys did still commit, and, they all had great success as well...credit to them AND Matt for that...but, they were all very unique circumstances as well.

So, with that in mind, it even makes the comparison more ridiculous with respect to Izzo.
 
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FirstDownB

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I don't think that it is...I could see it leading to Matt leaving, either for another school, or, just retiring, but, I don't think there is any pressure that he can impose that will change Purdue's thoughts on the matter...they made their decision(s) already...Purdue has long made it clear where they stand on "arms races" with respect to college sports, and, that is not going to change, regardless of how much pressure is imposed.
I see it a bit differently. Purdue always takes a principled, conservative stance on these frivolous financial expansions initially. Then, a few years down the line, when it becomes obvious to everyone that they are standing on their own pecker and the losses begin to add up, things change. Coaching salaries increase, facilities get funded. They find a way to return to a competitive position. Never ahead of the curve, but enough to remain competitive. Hopefully it doesn't take a return to rock bottom (see 2012-2013 basketball, 2013-2016 football) for the next awakening.
 

DAG10

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I see it a bit differently. Purdue always takes a principled, conservative stance on these frivolous financial expansions initially. Then, a few years down the line, when it becomes obvious to everyone that they are standing on their own pecker and the losses begin to add up, things change. Coaching salaries increase, facilities get funded. They find a way to return to a competitive position. Never ahead of the curve, but enough to remain competitive. Hopefully it doesn't take a return to rock bottom (see 2012-2013 basketball, 2013-2016 football) for the next awakening.
That is the thing though...they ALWAYS are playing catch up, and, they generally do not ever even genuinely catch up.

Competitive...I would agree, but, I don't know that I am as optimistic in this case, more so in that "competitive" is going to be much more arbitrary (or difficult to attain).

And, in this case, I am not sure that they can afford to wait things out as they have in the past...that, in doing so, the gap will be too difficult to make up here. It is one thing to ultimately come around to the idea of having to spend money to make money, and, to invest in order to compete on the field...I actually see Purdue being fine in that regard (salaries and facilities)...this is entirely different, and, the fact that Purdue had largely consciously ignored it until just recently, then, it was ultra-conservative even in getting involved (if we can even call it that). Being competitive from a facilities standpoint and coaching salaries standpoint is not the same as being competitive from paying kids to play, and, Purdue has shown ZERO interest in that to this point. I am not bashing that any more than I am condoning it...it is what it is...but, there are consequences. Coaching salaries did not keep Purdue from getting kids...facilities were not the reason that it got guys that it did, or, the primary reason that they lost kids that they did not...but, not paying a kid to play when other schools not only will, but, will pay them a lot, absolutely will be the reason that they do not get kids that they otherwise may have...it already has been, and, it will continue to be.

I don't even know that you can make up for that as they could in the other cases either...Purdue is never going to pay kids as other conferences do....heck, it is not even doing what Miami did in the case of Pack (nor will it)...and, it is not as though they are going to pay what tOSU or UM ultimately will (or, new conference members UCLA and USC)...the difference is that in the past, Purdue could still get guys that were national caliber recruits...now, those guys are going to get paid, and, Purdue has decided that it does not want to be involved...even if they ultimately decide otherwise...I don't know that it would be enough, or, that it would not be too late.
 

DAG10

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smart kid.
Not sure what is more stupid...that you took the time to post something as stupid...that you may have thought it was a sentence (by adding the period at the end), or, that if you did feel that it was a sentence and therefore had to include the period at the end, that you failed to capitalize the "s" in smart...I guess, in thinking about it...the appropriate (and proportionate) reply would be:

stupid post(er).
 
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Not sure what is more stupid...that you took the time to post something as stupid...that you may have thought it was a sentence (by adding the period at the end), or, that if you did feel that it was a sentence and therefore had to include the period at the end, that you failed to capitalize the "s" in smart...I guess, in thinking about it...the appropriate (and proportionate) reply would be:

stupid post(er).
dumb
 
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FirstDownB

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That is the thing though...they ALWAYS are playing catch up, and, they generally do not ever even genuinely catch up.

Competitive...I would agree, but, I don't know that I am as optimistic in this case, more so in that "competitive" is going to be much more arbitrary (or difficult to attain).

And, in this case, I am not sure that they can afford to wait things out as they have in the past...that, in doing so, the gap will be too difficult to make up here. It is one thing to ultimately come around to the idea of having to spend money to make money, and, to invest in order to compete on the field...I actually see Purdue being fine in that regard (salaries and facilities)...this is entirely different, and, the fact that Purdue had largely consciously ignored it until just recently, then, it was ultra-conservative even in getting involved (if we can even call it that). Being competitive from a facilities standpoint and coaching salaries standpoint is not the same as being competitive from paying kids to play, and, Purdue has shown ZERO interest in that to this point. I am not bashing that any more than I am condoning it...it is what it is...but, there are consequences. Coaching salaries did not keep Purdue from getting kids...facilities were not the reason that it got guys that it did, or, the primary reason that they lost kids that they did not...but, not paying a kid to play when other schools not only will, but, will pay them a lot, absolutely will be the reason that they do not get kids that they otherwise may have...it already has been, and, it will continue to be.

I don't even know that you can make up for that as they could in the other cases either...Purdue is never going to pay kids as other conferences do....heck, it is not even doing what Miami did in the case of Pack (nor will it)...and, it is not as though they are going to pay what tOSU or UM ultimately will (or, new conference members UCLA and USC)...the difference is that in the past, Purdue could still get guys that were national caliber recruits...now, those guys are going to get paid, and, Purdue has decided that it does not want to be involved...even if they ultimately decide otherwise...I don't know that it would be enough, or, that it would not be too late.
I wouldn't say zero interest, just slow to adapt. It took a while but they finally came out with the Boilermaker Alliance. That was only a baby step, for sure. My suggestion was simply that a swift kick in the pants might help to expedite that next step forward before hitting rock bottom. We can disagree whether or not any posturing by Painter or Brohm would expedite any changes, but history shows the adaptation will eventually take place as long as Purdue financial backers desire to compete in the B1G and participate in the NCAA tourney. I would prefer if we didn't have to experience more lean years and lose more recruits and possibly coaches between now and then.

I am convinced that the money is out there to support Purdue being competitive on the NIL scene. But the whales must be informed of the relative importance of where they are sending their checks.
 
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Eh let him test the waters. Maybe he still decides we are the right fit, always gotta worry when kids verbally commit early. Nothing matters until you sign that letter. If he finds a better perceived fit then good for him. Wouldn’t be surprised to see him re commit here and won’t be surprised if he goes elsewhere. That’s just the way it is.
 
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HoosierfanJM

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Eh let him test the waters. Maybe he still decides we are the right fit, always gotta worry when kids verbally commit early. Nothing matters until you sign that letter. If he finds a better perceived fit then good for him. Wouldn’t be surprised to see him re commit here and won’t be surprised if he goes elsewhere. That’s just the way it is.
The only de-commit followed by a re-commit to the same schooI can ever remember is James Blackmon Jr. at IU. Can anyone remember another?

also— while Purdue needs guards in a big way, I would file this kid under “addition by subtraction.” Talented but undersized and a less than optimum family and future as a teammate.

Let Izzo have him and Booker. There are plenty of talented players without headcase issues.
 
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Poprudy

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The only de-commit followed by a re-commit I can ever remember is James Blackmon Jr. at IU. Can anyone remember another?

also— while Purdue needs guards in a big way, I would file this kid under “addition by subtraction.” Talented but undersized and a less than optimum family and future as a teammate.

Let Izzo have him and Booker. There are plenty of talented players without headcase issues.
Rumor is that you guys reached out to him. That would be a dagger.
 

HoosierfanJM

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Rumor is that you guys reached out to him. That would be a dagger.
Graf the national rivals guy tweeted IU as part of a long list, but I’m wondering if DGL is the one who told him that.
IU pursuing him is incredibly unlikely if you ask me. A small, slight scoring guard is counter to everything that Woody has said he wants in a recruit. DGL spent a year as a teammate of Hood-Schifino and Reneau maybe those two guys are his buddies and that prompted speculation, but other people that I trust said no way whatsoever.
 
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New Pal Boiler

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I wouldn't say zero interest, just slow to adapt. It took a while but they finally came out with the Boilermaker Alliance. That was only a baby step, for sure. My suggestion was simply that a swift kick in the pants might help to expedite that next step forward before hitting rock bottom. We can disagree whether or not any posturing by Painter or Brohm would expedite any changes, but history shows the adaptation will eventually take place as long as Purdue financial backers desire to compete in the B1G and participate in the NCAA tourney. I would prefer if we didn't have to experience more lean years and lose more recruits and possibly coaches between now and then.

I am convinced that the money is out there to support Purdue being competitive on the NIL scene. But the whales must be informed of the relative importance of where they are sending their checks.
It may take a half empty Mackey and consecutive losing seasons to get folks’ attention. I’m not driving up there to watch a meh product.
 
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