Depth Chart

[nagemj02]

Who does everyone here envision being the leaders in minutes played and the primary/secondary options for each position?

Mine:

1-Thompson, C. Edwards, Albrecht
2-Mathias, (C. Edwards), Cline, (Thompson), (V. Edwards)
3-V. Edwards, Smotherman, (Cline)
4-Swanigan, (V. Edwards), (Smotherman), (Taylor)
5-Haas, (Swanigan), Taylor

Boiler Up

 

[Inspector100]

The leaders in minutes will be the players that play the best when given the opportunity in the games. This begins with earning some playing time by performing well in practice. It is simple as that.

 

[StickPurdue]

The leaders in minutes will be the players that play the best when given the opportunity in the games. This begins with earning some playing time by performing well in practice. It is simple as that.

If C. Edwards shows the potential that everybody expects, giving him big minutes as a freshman helps with recruiting. Even with a talented team, you can earn time if you put in the work. The team should be better when he is on the floor, but it's too early to tell. Got to see him against tough competition.

 

[Cleanface]

The leaders in minutes will be the players that play the best when given the opportunity in the games. This begins with earning some playing time by performing well in practice. It is simple as that.

Well, yeah, but this is a DISCUSSION FORUM. Try not to be so seriouz...

 

[tjreese]

If C. Edwards shows the potential that everybody expects, giving him big minutes as a freshman helps with recruiting. Even with a talented team, you can earn time if you put in the work. The team should be better when he is on the floor, but it's too early to tell. Got to see him against tough competition.

Historically, Matt has shown that a freshman can be on the court big minutes if he plays big

 

[Ryneforpresident]

Historically, Matt has shown that a freshman can be on the court big minutes if he plays big

Carson Edwards proved that he doesn't need huge minutes to score in bunches while in Spain. I think 20 minutes a game is about right at first. I would expect that to yield 10-12 points a game. Haas will get 20-25, Swanigan 25-30. Edwards (Vince) 25+, Mathias 20, Cline 15-20, Thompson 20, Spike 15-20, Smotherman 10-15. Taylor clean up.
An
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[mathboy]

Who does everyone here envision being the leaders in minutes played and the primary/secondary options for each position?

Mine:

1-Thompson, C. Edwards, Albrecht
2-Mathias, (C. Edwards), Cline, (Thompson), (V. Edwards)
3-V. Edwards, Smotherman, (Cline)
4-Swanigan, (V. Edwards), (Smotherman), (Taylor)
5-Haas, (Swanigan), Taylor

Boiler Up

Good analysis Nag. I think Painter clouds the boundaries between 1-2-3-4, and between 3-4-5. Your way of showing the players time is probably pretty accurate.

The only change I might make is putting Cline ahead of Smotherman at the 4 spot. I think Cline brings more skills than Basil. Probably will depend on the match-up situation.

 

[syc70]

Since when did Cline become a "4"

 

[olafmetal]

Since when did Cline become a "4"

That doesn't seem very likely. Kramer saw some time at teh 4 but that teams front court was ridiculously thin. this years team has at least 4 guys fighting for time at the 4 before you even consider Cline.

 

[FirstDownB]

I think the lineup and style of play should pivot with Haas. Less of a strict 1-5, more pods of players that complement each other. Something like this..
Starting 5: Haas, Biggie, VE, Dakota/Cline, PJ
After first substitution: Biggie, VE, Dakota, Cline, Carsen
From there on, keep Haas with PJ/Spike- traditional post feeding PGs paired together and group Carsen with the smaller lineup with Biggie in the middle and at least 2 of 3 VE-Cline-Dakota who can help handle the ball. Sprinkle in BS and JT as needed.

 

[Emartin70287]

Vince will never

Who does everyone here envision being the leaders in minutes played and the primary/secondary options for each position?

Mine:

1-Thompson, C. Edwards, Albrecht
2-Mathias, (C. Edwards), Cline, (Thompson), (V. Edwards)
3-V. Edwards, Smotherman, (Cline)
4-Swanigan, (V. Edwards), (Smotherman), (Taylor)
5-Haas, (Swanigan), Taylor

Vince will never play shooting gaurd, ever.

 

[mathboy]

Since when did Cline become a "4"

Yes, I know it's a stretch. I dislike the 1-5 designations. I think it will be more a case of Purdue playing "small" rather than us playing Cline as a true 4. I could see us go 4 small and 1-big with Cline filling the spot of the 4, but not really expected to do the same physical things as a 4. He is tall enough and can rebound, as well as shoot.

 

[syc70]

I think a "small" line-up would look much more like this:
Thompson/Spike, C Edwards, Mathias/Cline, V. Edwards/Smotherman, Swanigan

No way Cline can guard a 4. He might be a mismatch for an opposing 4, but he will get broken in half by a B10 4. There is a huge difference between Kramer & Cline on the defensive end, but even more when it come to physicalness. No way Purdue will be able to rebound if Cline is a 4

 

[mathboy]

I think a "small" line-up would look much more like this:
Thompson/Spike, C Edwards, Mathias/Cline, V. Edwards/Smotherman, Swanigan

No way Cline can guard a 4. He might be a mismatch for an opposing 4, but he will get broken in half by a B10 4. There is a huge difference between Kramer & Cline on the defensive end, but even more when it come to physical news. No way Purdue will be able to rebound if Cline is a 4

you are probably right.

 

[Schnelk]

I seriously doubt Cline will ever guard the 4 but at the same time I notice he's now listed at 6-6 on the official site roster. I just hope he's stronger and gets better looks this season. He could be a difference maker.

 

[nagemj02]

I seriously doubt Cline will ever guard the 4 but at the same time I notice he's now listed at 6-6 on the official site roster. I just hope he's stronger and gets better looks this season. He could be a difference maker.

Cline looks like he's improved his core strength but he's not noticeably bulkier or anything like that.

 

[dwhitebash11]

1. Carson Edwards / PJT / Spike
2. Dakota / Cline
3. VE / Smotherman
4. Biggie / Smotherman
5. Haas / Taylor


I think Spike ends up being the odd man out for the most part. He will get a few minutes per game, but I think Carsen Edwards is way more talented than Spike and Painter thought, thus propelling him not only into major minutes, but starting PG material.

Dakota/Cline may play together some, if need be in dire situations or in end of game situations when we need to hit FTs, but other than that, they hold down the 2.

VE has the 3 by himself, and Biggie has the 4 by himself, with Smotherman and Taylor being the 4/5 subs, but all that depends on matchups as well. Against a smalle, expect to see more Smotherman than Taylor.


Solid 9 man rotation going into conference play, again, with Spike being left out.

 

[BoilerDaddy]

1. Carson Edwards / PJT / Spike
2. Dakota / Cline
3. VE / Smotherman
4. Biggie / Smotherman
5. Haas / Taylor


I think Spike ends up being the odd man out for the most part. He will get a few minutes per game, but I think Carsen Edwards is way more talented than Spike and Painter thought, thus propelling him not only into major minutes, but starting PG material.

Dakota/Cline may play together some, if need be in dire situations or in end of game situations when we need to hit FTs, but other than that, they hold down the 2.

VE has the 3 by himself, and Biggie has the 4 by himself, with Smotherman and Taylor being the 4/5 subs, but all that depends on matchups as well. Against a smalle, expect to see more Smotherman than Taylor.


Solid 9 man rotation going into conference play, again, with Spike being left out.

Based on Painter's comments,, I will be very surprised if Spike is odd man out. I think that Carsen will play a lot, but it will be at the 2. Here's how I see the depth chart:

1. PJ/Spike/(CE)
2. Mathias/CE/(Cline)
3. VE/Cline/(Mathias)/(Smotherman)
4. Swanigan/(VE)/Smotherman/(Taylor)
5. Haas/(Swanigan)/Taylor

I think that both Smotherman and Taylor will need to battle for minutes since they are at the greatest risk of being left out of the rotation.

 

[PU52Chevy]

1. Carson Edwards / PJT / Spike
2. Dakota / Cline
3. VE / Smotherman
4. Biggie / Smotherman
5. Haas / Taylor


I think Spike ends up being the odd man out for the most part. He will get a few minutes per game, but I think Carsen Edwards is way more talented than Spike and Painter thought, thus propelling him not only into major minutes, but starting PG material.

Dakota/Cline may play together some, if need be in dire situations or in end of game situations when we need to hit FTs, but other than that, they hold down the 2.

VE has the 3 by himself, and Biggie has the 4 by himself, with Smotherman and Taylor being the 4/5 subs, but all that depends on matchups as well. Against a smalle, expect to see more Smotherman than Taylor.


Solid 9 man rotation going into conference play, again, with Spike being left out.

I agree white...but I think Painter is also high on Spike....

I see Spike in close games to hit free throws and manage the win.

His experience over CE will put him in in crunch time.....

Love CE upside though.......

I am sure Painter is glad to have choices at PG.....three solid one's at all levels.

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

Based on Painter's comments,, I will be very surprised if Spike is odd man out. I think that Carsen will play a lot, but it will be at the 2. Here's how I see the depth chart:

1. PJ/Spike/(CE)
2. Mathias/CE/(Cline)
3. VE/Cline/(Mathias)/(Smotherman)
4. Swanigan/(VE)/Smotherman/(Taylor)
5. Haas/(Swanigan)/Taylor

I think that both Smotherman and Taylor will need to battle for minutes since they are at the greatest risk of being left out of the rotation.

Agree with Daddy about SA.....CMP emphasized his passing ability.....if Purdue is holding a slim lead at the end of a game, I'd expect SA to be on the floor most of the time. I also was intrigued with CMP's comments concerning CE, especially about his potential as a ball-hawk on D....he is going to get minutes......and the more he picks up CMP's initiatives, the more he is going to get.

Interesting question from Rabjohns about CS and feedback from the NBA draft process.....I like how CMP dealt with that subject.

 

[PU52Chevy]

Agree with Daddy about SA.....CMP emphasized his passing ability.....if Purdue is holding a slim lead at the end of a game, I'd expect SA to be on the floor most of the time. I also was intrigued with CMP's comments concerning CE, especially about his potential as a ball-hawk on D....he is going to get minutes......and the more he picks up CMP's initiatives, the more he is going to get.

Interesting question from Rabjohns about CS and feedback from the NBA draft process.....I like how CMP dealt with that subject.

Ha Ha we were typing and sending same thing at same time......great minds!

 

[dwhitebash11]

Agree with Daddy about SA.....CMP emphasized his passing ability.....if Purdue is holding a slim lead at the end of a game, I'd expect SA to be on the floor most of the time. I also was intrigued with CMP's comments concerning CE, especially about his potential as a ball-hawk on D....he is going to get minutes......and the more he picks up CMP's initiatives, the more he is going to get.

Interesting question from Rabjohns about CS and feedback from the NBA draft process.....I like how CMP dealt with that subject.

Love the bolded part... Did you feel a little strange typing that?

HA!

But I agree with your part about the end of game. Spike will be in to sink free throws and handle late game pressure situations, ESPECIALLY if CE fails at it. I totally forgot about that, and I can't believe I let myself forget about probably 4/5 of our losses, including the NCAAT loss.

First real test, Louisville, and what better place to do it than there? If CE can handle THAT press, in THAT arena, god bless.

 

[tjreese]

Ha Ha we were typing and sending same thing at same time......great minds!

Hell, you're Purdue people...no surprise to me!

 

[tjreese]

Love the bolded part... Did you feel a little strange typing that?

HA!

But I agree with your part about the end of game. Spike will be in to sink free throws and handle late game pressure situations, ESPECIALLY if CE fails at it. I totally forgot about that, and I can't believe I let myself forget about probably 4/5 of our losses, including the NCAAT loss.

First real test, Louisville, and what better place to do it than there? If CE can handle THAT press, in THAT arena, god bless.

about a month or two ago I mentioned that I thought Purdue would be better against the press than last year and one of the reasons was I wasn't convinced in tight times that Davis and AJ truly had the confidence needed. I think the first couple of years of not winning left lingering doubt when games got close. Make no mistake they were valuable for Purdue...very valuable, but I didn't think their value was against a press in a tight game as I thought mentally they were not the leaders needed in THAT area. Here is this video I find it interesting that Matt (around 7:40) thinks the "departures" AND additions to Purdue will make Purdue better against the press. Obviously experience helps and additions (Carsen,Spike, Basil) help with some quickness, but departures? None of this is to rag on two great contributors to building this Purdue team back to a winning team, just that "their" strengths may not have been in this area. Lots of ways of spinning things...just thought mentioning departures instead of mentioning other things was interesting...

 

[BoilerBiker]

Some comments on the backcourt
Also suggested pjt will log much more minutes and production than spike

 

[FirstDownB]

Some comments on the backcourt
Also suggested pjt will log much more minutes and production than spike

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I second the "leaning tower" comment. When Cline is squared up to the basket he's deadly accurate. But 90% of the time the ball isn't going in when he's coming off a screen and fading one way or another. Would think this should be easily correctable.

 

[PU52Chevy]

I agree Cline does lean on his shots when off screens.....he needs to square up and elevate and then release....but I am sure he will figure it out he is a stud competitor.

I also think adding muscle also hurt with the jump shot......takes time to learn how to use the new muscles and be accurate again......

Cline has added some guns to his arms this off season and thus could hurt his shooting until he get used to them.

Repetition helps and also game type conditions (ala exhausted or winded) and then shooting to still have same dead eye touch.

I think both Mathias and Cline will be fine..........would love for them to average 40+ percent........

Boiler Up!

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

Love the bolded part... Did you feel a little strange typing that?

****

Didn't realize it after the "haze" from the day.....yeah.....

Who's your Daddy?

 

[BoilerDaddy]

I second the "leaning tower" comment. When Cline is squared up to the basket he's deadly accurate. But 90% of the time the ball isn't going in when he's coming off a screen and fading one way or another. Would think this should be easily correctable.

So, what % could he hit if he cleans up the leaning shots, considering that he hit 38.5% from 3 last season? Is 45% possible? (For reference, Ryne Smith hit 44% from 3 as a junior and 43% as a senior.)

 

[FirstDownB]

So, what % could he hit if he cleans up the leaning shots, considering that he hit 38.5% from 3 last season? Is 45% possible? (For reference, Ryne Smith hit 44% from 3 as a junior and 43% as a senior.)

Good question. Even those of us who never played at this level know it's not like shooting HORSE. These guys would hardly ever miss if they weren't being harassed by defenders. The leaning/fading (to me) seems to be a product of not having that extra second to stop momentum and square up. The closing speed and length of D1 defenders is unreal. Also why kids with low release points or slow releases don't translate as well from high school ball to college.
I wonder if moving back from the line another foot or two would give him a bit more time to relax and square up. Sure, the defender can adjust by moving further out, but at least that would spread the defense more. Better 3-point looks and/or better opportunity for ball movement. I think a guy like Cline would make a higher % of squared away 23 footers than fading 21 footers.

 

[BoilerDaddy]

Good question. Even those of us who never played at this level know it's not like shooting HORSE. These guys would hardly ever miss if they weren't being harassed by defenders. The leaning/fading (to me) seems to be a product of not having that extra second to stop momentum and square up. The closing speed and length of D1 defenders is unreal. Also why kids with low release points or slow releases don't translate as well from high school ball to college.
I wonder if moving back from the line another foot or two would give him a bit more time to relax and square up. Sure, the defender can adjust by moving further out, but at least that would spread the defense more. Better 3-point looks and/or better opportunity for ball movement. I think a guy like Cline would make a higher % of squared away 23 footers than fading 21 footers.

I agree with this. Ryne Smith drew fans crazy with his shot fakes, but Smith understood that he never had to actually take a shot to create good offense. When he did take shots, they almost always were balanced and in rhythm. With the talent that Purdue has surrounding them, players like Cline, Mathias, PJ, and Spike don't need to hunt shots. Particularly early in the shot clock, they mostly need to be sound with their decision making and take advantage of good opportunities when they present themselves.

This is not to say that they should be passive. I love it, for example, when Dakota puts the ball on the floor to create a wide open jumper. Spike is really good at using his shot to setup driving opportunities to break down the defense.

 

[tjreese]

I second the "leaning tower" comment. When Cline is squared up to the basket he's deadly accurate. But 90% of the time the ball isn't going in when he's coming off a screen and fading one way or another. Would think this should be easily correctable.

it IS correctable! It is about gathering the feet shoulder wide under the trunk. Perhaps a better 1-2 stop and/or with a foot pointed to the basket on curls prior to bringing the ball into the shooting pocket. Whatever it may be...it IS correctable. Standard protocol is squaring prior to lifting. That said I do recall Al Rhodes at Warsaw with Jeff Gross in a clinic talking about shooting in the mid 80's. His thoughts relative to an ex ABA player (can't recall) was that a player be square when he lands and that he will automatically correct. I'm too old an prefer squaring before. Practice good habits...get good results. Get sloppy in practice and too much variation.

Had a friend that did some coaching at Kokomo under Basil and he told me a few years ago I would like Kellen Dunham (while in high school) because he was very fundamental and practiced the fundamentals all the time. Anyway, it is my opinion that almost anything can be improved upon other than height and wingspan. Quickness, can slightly be improved by mental improvement and all fundamentals can be improved...but with years of habits...it would be harder.

Stars seem to not get corrected like Terone Johnson on his FT shooting

 

[tjreese]

I agree Cline does lean on his shots when off screens.....he needs to square up and elevate and then release....but I am sure he will figure it out he is a stud competitor.

I also think adding muscle also hurt with the jump shot......takes time to learn how to use the new muscles and be accurate again......

Cline has added some guns to his arms this off season and thus could hurt his shooting until he get used to them.

Repetition helps and also game type conditions (ala exhausted or winded) and then shooting to still have same dead eye touch.

I think both Mathias and Cline will be fine..........would love for them to average 40+ percent........

Boiler Up!

he should be shooting on days he his lifting.

 

[tjreese]

Good question. Even those of us who never played at this level know it's not like shooting HORSE. These guys would hardly ever miss if they weren't being harassed by defenders. The leaning/fading (to me) seems to be a product of not having that extra second to stop momentum and square up. The closing speed and length of D1 defenders is unreal. Also why kids with low release points or slow releases don't translate as well from high school ball to college.
I wonder if moving back from the line another foot or two would give him a bit more time to relax and square up. Sure, the defender can adjust by moving further out, but at least that would spread the defense more. Better 3-point looks and/or better opportunity for ball movement. I think a guy like Cline would make a higher % of squared away 23 footers than fading 21 footers.

When coming off a ball screen or a curl on a screen away from the ball to receive the pass I think it helps players to turn the inside foot towards the basket before gathering the legs under the body as it incorporates a square-up quicker IMO (1-2 stop as Baumgartner might say). A sloppy footwork (Kendall) would overstride and find his body not squared but turned sideways and actually take strength away in which he would shoot harder to compensate and many times bounce hard off the rim. Feet too close together do not provide the balance...

Back in the 80's or early 90's it was common to see IU players always try to catch the ball with their LEFT foot set (if right handed) so they could always step into the shot with their shooting foot. It appeared to me that this method allowed more range and consistent shooting, but not near as quick to get the shot off. Lot of opinions and approaches, but IMO improvements are possible in a lot of areas in shooting...