Curiosity Time....

[SqueakyClean]

Over on another board I frequent, we are starting to give predictions for the Big Ten season. It is a tier based system and how most teams of equal strength lose games on the road and win games at home. This year we are struggling to decide if MSU and Purdue belong two tiers above all the others because the bottom 12 look pretty crappy this year compared to MSU & Purdue. So based off of that system, MSU will go 18-0 and Purdue will go 17-1. So that made me curious.....

If I could promise to you right now that Purdue would go 17-1 in league play, with their one loss being on the road at MSU (who goes 18-0), and then we would go 2-1 in the BTT (with another loss to MSU) would you take that? As in, cancel the rest of the season right now. No games played. It's selection Sunday. Purdue is sitting at 30-4 (with MSU at 33-1)

No Big Ten title. No Big Ten tournament title.....but 30-4 and pretty much guaranteed a 2 seed, with maybe even an outside shot at the last 1 seed if other leagues have a cluster at the top of their rankings.

The alternative is that we play our games, likely lose a road game or three, but at the same time, there is decent chance that MSU also loses a game or two and a Big Ten title is possible. Maybe even we split with MSU and beat them either at the Breslin or during the BTT. In the end though, we're looking at 27-7 and a likely 4 seed.

Pick your poison.

 

[Esox54547]

No, I would rather enjoy the journey and the games. Also, I don't want to give anything to MSU. If they earn it, so be it.

 

[jadeezra]

Great post , but these games get me through the winter so I want to see every bit of it. I’d take that deal in a heart beat though.

Over on another board I frequent, we are starting to give predictions for the Big Ten season. It is a tier based system and how most teams of equal strength lose games on the road and win games at home. This year we are struggling to decide if MSU and Purdue belong two tiers above all the others because the bottom 12 look pretty crappy this year compared to MSU & Purdue. So based off of that system, MSU will go 18-0 and Purdue will go 17-1. So that made me curious.....

If I could promise to you right now that Purdue would go 17-1 in league play, with their one loss being on the road at MSU (who goes 18-0), and then we would go 2-1 in the BTT (with another loss to MSU) would you take that? As in, cancel the rest of the season right now. No games played. It's selection Sunday. Purdue is sitting at 30-4 (with MSU at 33-1)

No Big Ten title. No Big Ten tournament title.....but 30-4 and pretty much guaranteed a 2 seed, with maybe even an outside shot at the last 1 seed if other leagues have a cluster at the top of their rankings.

The alternative is that we play our games, likely lose a road game or three, but at the same time, there is decent chance that MSU also loses a game or two and a Big Ten title is possible. Maybe even we split with MSU and beat them either at the Breslin or during the BTT. In the end though, we're looking at 27-7 and a likely 4 seed.

Pick your poison.

 

[Do Dah Day]

Of course I'd rather have the 30-4, but that's not how life works and I would never give-up 20 or so days of euphoric joy. No way will I trade the journey ... it's what makes life life, live it.

Would you pay for a helicopter ride to the summit of a mountain that is on your bucket list, just to mark it off your list? Or would you make the climb, knowing you may not make the summit?

 

[SqueakyClean]

OK. Let me rephrase. The "cancel the rest of the season" part was perhaps over the top and not what I am trying to focus on. Of course I want to see the games, and enjoying the highs and lows is what makes basketball such a great sport.

I guess I could have summed it up better by just saying: If you had to choose between two outcomes, 1) 30-4 with not Big Ten titles and a guaranteed 2 seed or 2) a 27-7 season with either a Big Ten regular season title or BTT title but ending up a 4 seed. Which would you take?

 

[BoilerBulldog]

I’d take a 2 seed over a 4 seed.

 

[Dakota Girl]

Of course I'd rather have the 30-4, but that's not how life works and I would never give-up 20 or so days of euphoric joy. No way will I trade the journey ... it's what makes life life, live it.

Would you pay for a helicopter ride to the summit of a mountain that is on your bucket list, just to mark it off your list? Or would you make the climb, knowing you may not make the summit?

How about a Jeep ride? Those mountains are tall. Am I being too literal?
Okay, okay, play the games. That’s what it’s about.

 

[FirstDownB]

OK. Let me rephrase. The "cancel the rest of the season" part was perhaps over the top and not what I am trying to focus on. Of course I want to see the games, and enjoying the highs and lows is what makes basketball such a great sport.

I guess I could have summed it up better by just saying: If you had to choose between two outcomes, 1) 30-4 with not Big Ten titles and a guaranteed 2 seed or 2) a 27-7 season with either a Big Ten regular season title or BTT title but ending up a 4 seed. Which would you take?

30-4 would put us somewhere between 3 and 5 on the S curve. We'd have roughly 4x better odds at making the Final Four and 10x better odds at making the Championship game as a 1 seed than as a 4 seed. I'll take those odds. Plus, in the scenario you paint, it sounds like the only team capable of beating us is MSU, who would be placed in a different region from us. Conference titles are great, but let's get that giant 38 year old monkey off the back.

 

[Do Dah Day]

How about a Jeep ride? Those mountains are tall. Am I being too literal?
Okay, okay, play the games. That’s what it’s about.

Literal would describe someone thinking their MACHO JEEEEEEP could climb any mountain ... then trying to climb a steep incline, having it tip over backward, land upside-down in a deep ravine, and gas running out onto their head .....

SO ............ would you choose the helicopter, or the jeep?

 

[todd brewster]

I don't think MSU can beat us, as long as we play our inside out game. Our twin towers negate their size advantage inside and Vince, PJ and Dakota negate their shooters. I'd bring in Carson for instant offense and I doubt MSU can contain him. Ryan gives us better 3 pt shooting than what they have. I think Nojel should also take a turn on Bridges.

Our Achilles heel is playing creme puffs and getting big heads where players take bad shots instead of playing team ball. If we keep focused, we can go far in the tournament.

 

[Do Dah Day]

OK. Let me rephrase. The "cancel the rest of the season" part was perhaps over the top and not what I am trying to focus on. Of course I want to see the games, and enjoying the highs and lows is what makes basketball such a great sport.

I guess I could have summed it up better by just saying: If you had to choose between two outcomes, 1) 30-4 with not Big Ten titles and a guaranteed 2 seed or 2) a 27-7 season with either a Big Ten regular season title or BTT title but ending up a 4 seed. Which would you take?

I don't see the slightest hesitation here. Regardless of my disputing that the Tourney is the END-ALL of college basketball life, that supporting that the season is great and enjoyable and important, I would never ever turn-down a 2 seed.

 

[Boiler Wolf]

Definitely take the 30-4 with 2 loses to MSU. Would give us a really good seed and a chance to play Sparty again in the FF when it matters most. Tough to beat a team 3 times as the saying goes.

 

[Statey]

30-4 would put us somewhere between 3 and 5 on the S curve. We'd have roughly 4x better odds at making the Final Four and 10x better odds at making the Championship game as a 1 seed than as a 4 seed. I'll take those odds. Plus, in the scenario you paint, it sounds like the only team capable of beating us is MSU, who would be placed in a different region from us. Conference titles are great, but let's get that giant 38 year old monkey off the back.

I hear what you're saying on this, and while the expected outcome you're projecting is not wrong, I always cringe a little when reading that. You get a lower/better seed because you're a better team than others who are higher. It's not that that 10-seeds have a more difficult path to the championship than a 7-seed simply because of their seed #, it's because they're inferior teams to 7-seeds (and 6's, and 5's, ...). If Purdue is a 2-seed, they have a better chance at making the FF because they're damn good, not because they got on the 2-line.

 

[FirstDownB]

I hear what you're saying on this, and while the expected outcome you're projecting is not wrong, I always cringe a little when reading that. You get a lower/better seed because you're a better team than others who are higher. It's not that that 10-seeds have a more difficult path to the championship than a 7-seed simply because of their seed #, it's because they're inferior teams to 7-seeds (and 6's, and 5's, ...). If Purdue is a 2-seed, they have a better chance at making the tourney because they're damn good, not because they got on the 2-line.

It's a little bit of both. If we're 30-4 we're likely a better team than if we're 27-7, and we'd also likely have an easier path.

 

[klmLB]

Both MSU and we will lose a couple games we shouldn't. It's the nature of the beast. It's hard to bring your A game every single time ... and we will both be hunted by the rest of the league, so we will get everyone else's A game.

MSU will prob go 16-2 or 15-3 and PU prob a game behind that.

Because of MSU's strength rebounding the ball and the athletes you have (combined with decent shooting), I think it's just a bad matchup for us. Not giving us no chance to beat you, but it will be tough. However, I hope we play you in the BTT because it will better prepare us for the tourney and the type of teams we will need to beat to get where we want.

 

[tjreese]

I don't think MSU can beat us, as long as we play our inside out game. Our twin towers negate their size advantage inside and Vince, PJ and Dakota negate their shooters. I'd bring in Carson for instant offense and I doubt MSU can contain him. Ryan gives us better 3 pt shooting than what they have. I think Nojel should also take a turn on Bridges.

Our Achilles heel is playing creme puffs and getting big heads where players take bad shots instead of playing team ball. If we keep focused, we can go far in the tournament.

Purdue can certainly beat MSU, but it won't be easy...not up there in what will be a very much anticipated game where Izzo has the refs ear and the Izzo Zone is all white and the fans are jumping up and the previous players pointing at the cops and laughing. Sure they won't come out of the stands like in Bloomington and start guarding the Purdue players and jumping at them while they are shooting, but Stephens has been known to mug a few players (such as Tony Jones here at 1:59

My concern and has been is the NUMBER of bigs MSU has. If Purdue gets Haas or Haarms in foul trouble...it will be a long night and that is another reason why I wanted Jacquil to start getting some minutes. MSU can throw the bodies and sprint the court trying to get quickdowns against Haas and put more minutes on Haarms...and if one gets in foul trouble....problems big time. This is A game that Carsen needs to be at his best...typical PJ, Vince, Dakota are okay. Solid inside presence by Haas and one of the better performances by Nojel...and theh a bit more O from Haarms with a typical D performance. Rarely does a game go as planned and so I like some options for the team that will have the refs crying and the TV announcers gushing about Mr March that is always loaded with talent...

 

[buffboiler]

What, not checking the math? This is not acceptable on the "Purdue" forums!!

Currently being 13-2, we should be at 30-3 if we end up going 17-1 rest of the way.

Tsk, tsk..

With that being said, I want Purdue to go perfect the rest of the way and become #1 seed overall.

Then, take it all! NE1 for my Coolaid?

Boiler Up!!

 

[BoilerJS]

What, not checking the math? This is not acceptable on the "Purdue" forums!!

Currently being 13-2, we should be at 30-3 if we end up going 17-1 rest of the way.

Tsk, tsk..

With that being said, I want Purdue to go perfect the rest of the way and become #1 seed overall.

Then, take it all! NE1 for my Coolaid?

Boiler Up!!

He has us losing to MSU twice. I'd take 30-4 if we swept OSU regular season and BTT. That would give us our winning margin over every B1G team again. I'd take my chances with a high 2 seed, make the final 4 and?

 

[FirstDownB]

What, not checking the math? This is not acceptable on the "Purdue" forums!!

Currently being 13-2, we should be at 30-3 if we end up going 17-1 rest of the way.

Tsk, tsk..

With that being said, I want Purdue to go perfect the rest of the way and become #1 seed overall.

Then, take it all! NE1 for my Coolaid?

Boiler Up!!

I checked the math. 16 remaining regular season games plus 3 BTT games. 13-2 plus 17-2 = 30-4.

 

[buffboiler]

Nah, we will split with MSU at the worst case.
Can't lose to MSU twice.

Or, perhaps, you are suggesting we will win the third game, as in..

Love that idea!!

Boiler Up!

 

[SqueakyClean]

Nah, we will split with MSU at the worst case.
Can't lose to MSU twice.

Or, perhaps, you are suggesting we will win the third game, as in..

Love that idea!!

Boiler Up!

I'm at the grocery store right now, so somebody do me a favor and post one of those meme pictures of Fry from futurama with the "Not sure if serious" captions.

In case my sarcasm meter is broken....
1) We've already played two Big Ten games, so we have 16 left. Losing at MSU and winning the rest would make us 15-1.
2) We only play once against MSU in the regular season (at the Breslin).
3) If we go 15-1, we would be the 2 seed for the BTT. We would get the bye, so at best we could play 3 games. I said in my original post that we win the first two and lose the third to MSU. So we would be 13+15+2 for 30 wins and 2+1+1 for losses. 30-4

 

[Dakota Girl]

Literal would describe someone thinking their MACHO JEEEEEEP could climb any mountain ... then trying to climb a steep incline, having it tip over backward, land upside-down in a deep ravine, and gas running out onto their head .....

SO ............ would you choose the helicopter, or the jeep?

Modern flight does seem more comfortable. But in the topic of the original question as opposed to the silly path I took us down...I would not choose the magic fast forward to a “made for tournament selection” record. That just skips the fun part. What does a team do or not do to earn their record? That’s the reason I watch. I suppose that is why the final result is not as important to some as it is to others.

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

I'm at the grocery store right now, so somebody do me a favor and post one of those meme pictures of Fry from futurama with the "Not sure if serious" captions.

In case my sarcasm meter is broken....
1) We've already played two Big Ten games, so we have 16 left. Losing at MSU and winning the rest would make us 15-1.
2) We only play once against MSU in the regular season (at the Breslin).
3) If we go 15-1, we would be the 2 seed for the BTT. We would get the bye, so at best we could play 3 games. I said in my original post that we win the first two and lose the third to MSU. So we would be 13+15+2 for 30 wins and 2+1+1 for losses. 30-4

 

[tjreese]

Modern flight does seem more comfortable. But in the topic of the original question as opposed to the silly path I took us down...I would not choose the magic fast forward to a “made for tournament selection” record. That just skips the fun part. What does a team do or not do to earn their record? That’s the reason I watch. I suppose that is why the final result is not as important to some as it is to others.

...and that is why some have a different pecking order of coaches...the other things in "addition" to the final score.

 

[TC4THREE]

No. If we can't win either the BT title or BTT championship I wouldn't take it.

 

[todd brewster]

Purdue can certainly beat MSU, but it won't be easy...
My concern and has been is the NUMBER of bigs MSU has. If Purdue gets Haas or Haarms in foul trouble...it will be a long night and that is another reason why I wanted Jacquil to start getting some minutes. MSU can throw the bodies and sprint the court trying to get quickdowns against Haas and put more minutes on Haarms...and if one gets in foul trouble....problems big time.

The big improvement with Vince this year is how he helps cover Isaac's man when Isaac doubles the offensive player with the ball. I think Vince played one of his best games tonight by being in the right place. To your point, one of our big 3 got in foul trouble, but we maintained beautifully. The reason was that Haas and Haarms played D together the way they should. They were both jumping out to stop jump shots knowing there was a rim protector covering for them to be aggressive. Haarms swats away balls where Haas just blocks out the sun and forces them to put up air balls. The play of the day was when Haas challenged that 3 that missed by 12 feet. When the 3 play together we controlled the boards.

I also think Jacquil has the same mentality and will be easily able to play 10 minutes per game by the time we play MSU.

 

[Roeder]

The big improvement with Vince this year is how he helps cover Isaac's man when Isaac doubles the offensive player with the ball. I think Vince played one of his best games tonight by being in the right place. To your point, one of our big 3 got in foul trouble, but we maintained beautifully. The reason was that Haas and Haarms played D together the way they should. They were both jumping out to stop jump shots knowing there was a rim protector covering for them to be aggressive. Haarms swats away balls where Haas just blocks out the sun and forces them to put up air balls. The play of the day was when Haas challenged that 3 that missed by 12 feet. When the 3 play together we controlled the boards.

I also think Jacquil has the same mentality and will be easily able to play 10 minutes per game by the time we play MSU.

Haas challenging that 3 point shot with 2 hands and the air ball that followed was awesome. Definitely a favorite play from last night.

 

[tjreese]

The big improvement with Vince this year is how he helps cover Isaac's man when Isaac doubles the offensive player with the ball. I think Vince played one of his best games tonight by being in the right place. To your point, one of our big 3 got in foul trouble, but we maintained beautifully. The reason was that Haas and Haarms played D together the way they should. They were both jumping out to stop jump shots knowing there was a rim protector covering for them to be aggressive. Haarms swats away balls where Haas just blocks out the sun and forces them to put up air balls. The play of the day was when Haas challenged that 3 that missed by 12 feet. When the 3 play together we controlled the boards.

I also think Jacquil has the same mentality and will be easily able to play 10 minutes per game by the time we play MSU.

I wasn't considering Vince as a Big with my concern. My concern is having to play two bigs at sometime ..in some game for some reason whether fouls or just match up or mismatch consideration. My concern was never about Haas and Haarms playing together. I advocated getting some experience in that months ago for the same concerns when some never saw the value or only sold on small ball. Now what happens "IF" you need two bigs to play and either Haas or Haarms is in foul trouble, hurt, sick or unable to play when needed?

Is Taylor getting less than four minutes a game when a game is already decided actually getting him good experience? I just think he could be getting 7 minutes a game in many of these games during competitive situation. I'm also more impressed with Vince's rebounding and fight than his rotations because I think that is his biggest improvement...and none of that is to discount the importance of rotations

 

[BoilerInChiTown]

No. If we can't win either the BT title or BTT championship I wouldn't take it.

Finally. I thought I was in the f#$king wrong forum for a minute...

I wouldn't give a flying f#&k if we get to the final 4 without winning the B1G. No reply needed. Have a good day.

 

[FirstDownB]

Now what happens "IF" you need two bigs to play and either Haas or Haarms is in foul trouble, hurt, sick or unable to play when needed?

Is Taylor getting less than four minutes a game when a game is already decided actually getting him good experience? I just think he could be getting 7 minutes a game in many of these games during competitive situation.

I was beating this drum the first 4 weeks of the season and finally just ran out gas. I know there is a plan. Unfortunately that plan hinges on not having foul trouble or injuries in any big, important games. Just hope JT is ready if and when that time comes..

 

[Hausta01]

Finally. I thought I was in the f#$king wrong forum for a minute...

I wouldn't give a flying f#&k if we get to the final 4 without winning the B1G. No reply needed. Have a good day.

We won the B1G last year and made a S16 and people here still bitched. Painter has 3? B1G titles and a tournament title. He doesn't have a FF. I will gladly forego a B1G title for a FF run.