Complications of the red zone struggles

[FirstDownB]

I went back and re-watched the 5 Purdue offensive possessions of the second half, and something jumped out at me.
Each of the drives had either a single drive killing play, or a succession of high risk plays that killed the drive. We were still getting some successful short to medium chunk plays like in the first half, but simply were not attempting as many, because... unsuccessful attempts at stretching the field put the offense behind the sticks and in a position that often it couldn't even threaten to run the ball or throw out wide.

1st drive: 3rd & 10 at MINN 33 --> sack, 12 yard loss, knocked out of FG range, punted next play
2nd drive: 1st & 10 at PUR 28 --> sack, 10 yard loss, punted 3 plays later
3rd drive: no drive killers --> missed FG
4th drive: 1st & 10 at MINN 48 --> attempted deep pass, incomplete, turnover on downs 3 plays later
5th drive: 1st/2nd/3rd & 10 at MINN 27 --> this succession of plays consisted of downfield throws, the last resulted in INT. 2nd down was the killer, though, because they had time to just get some yards and have 3rd & manageable but instead threw deep over the middle.

I think the message in the locker room at half time probably included direction to make more big plays in the 2nd half. In the first half, the offense had been moving the ball well, but without much to show for it on the scoreboard. The main reason being poor red zone offense. So, the adjustment is to try to score from outside the red zone with big plays. Unfortunately, the attempts at big plays include higher risk, which ended up killing all but one drive before they even got to the red zone. End result = cut off the nose to spite your face.

So this is the dilemma. You dink and dunk, move the chains, and take your chances with poor red zone offense. Or you take shots downfield and hope your line holds up, your QB fits it in the window, and your receivers can go get some contested balls. In hindsight, this game might have been won something like 23-20, despite the poor red zone offense, by simply continuing the first half approach of moving the ball between the 20's. But credit the Minnesota secondary. They played well on several 50/50 downfield throws into man coverage.

 

[KentuckyBoiler]

With our spread offense, we have struggled with the red zone area for years. Maybe not as bad, we even had trouble with that during the Tiller years.

We can try to go with longer vertical shots, but will our OL hold up to give the QB time? Most of the time, probably not. With O'Connell as QB, he is not going to be able to scramble out of the pocket to buy time for plays to open up, if the line cannot keep the pocket open.

I just don't know we have the personnel right now to solve this problem.

 

[YouSayPotato]

With our spread offense, we have struggled with the red zone area for years. Maybe not as bad, we even had trouble with that during the Tiller years.

We can try to go with longer vertical shots, but will our OL hold up to give the QB time? Most of the time, probably not. With O'Connell as QB, he is not going to be able to scramble out of the pocket to buy time for plays to open up, if the line cannot keep the pocket open.

I just don't know we have the personnel right now to solve this problem.

Four sacks is a game-killer. We cannot recover from that. Our OL cannot block and we have two QBs who are not mobile. If we could fix one problem or the other, we'd be OK.

 

[FirstDownB]

With our spread offense, we have struggled with the red zone area for years. Maybe not as bad, we even had trouble with that during the Tiller years.

We can try to go with longer vertical shots, but will our OL hold up to give the QB time? Most of the time, probably not. With O'Connell as QB, he is not going to be able to scramble out of the pocket to buy time for plays to open up, if the line cannot keep the pocket open.

I just don't know we have the personnel right now to solve this problem.

Right. That was sort of my takeaway. I don't think this offense is going to score 30+ against solid Big Ten defenses. Not with this Oline. But this year the defense gives you a bit more flexibility. The calculus on Saturday probably said that, like it or not, what you saw in the first half was probably as good as it was going to get. Keep grinding it out, get to 23 points, and win with your defense.

If we had been a bit more patient and worked the ball down inside the 20 a couple more times, I would have liked to have seen a bit more of the Burton package. I think that is probably the one thing that might unlock a bit more red zone offense, other than having Horvath back.

 

[bonefish1]

We were saying this a few weeks ago: Teams will be happy to let Purdue eat up yards between the 20s but then they stiffen up as the field gets shorter. This is where the lack of a running game is a killer. And I do agree, that this sits on the OL and their inability to open lanes.

 

[FirstDownB]

We were saying this a few weeks ago: Teams will be happy to let Purdue eat up yards between the 20s but then they stiffen up as the field gets shorter. This is where the lack of a running game is a killer. And I do agree, that this sits on the OL and their inability to open lanes.

Doerue was making some good yards between the 20s. But we started gunning for the goal line as soon as the ball crossed midfield in the second half. I think this was overcompensation, impatience, etc. due to the red zone struggles.

 

[BCfanatic2020]

I went back and re-watched the 5 Purdue offensive possessions of the second half, and something jumped out at me.
Each of the drives had either a single drive killing play, or a succession of high risk plays that killed the drive. We were still getting some successful short to medium chunk plays like in the first half, but simply were not attempting as many, because... unsuccessful attempts at stretching the field put the offense behind the sticks and in a position that often it couldn't even threaten to run the ball or throw out wide.

1st drive: 3rd & 10 at MINN 33 --> sack, 12 yard loss, knocked out of FG range, punted next play
2nd drive: 1st & 10 at PUR 28 --> sack, 10 yard loss, punted 3 plays later
3rd drive: no drive killers --> missed FG
4th drive: 1st & 10 at MINN 48 --> attempted deep pass, incomplete, turnover on downs 3 plays later
5th drive: 1st/2nd/3rd & 10 at MINN 27 --> this succession of plays consisted of downfield throws, the last resulted in INT. 2nd down was the killer, though, because they had time to just get some yards and have 3rd & manageable but instead threw deep over the middle.

I think the message in the locker room at half time probably included direction to make more big plays in the 2nd half. In the first half, the offense had been moving the ball well, but without much to show for it on the scoreboard. The main reason being poor red zone offense. So, the adjustment is to try to score from outside the red zone with big plays. Unfortunately, the attempts at big plays include higher risk, which ended up killing all but one drive before they even got to the red zone. End result = cut off the nose to spite your face.

So this is the dilemma. You dink and dunk, move the chains, and take your chances with poor red zone offense. Or you take shots downfield and hope your line holds up, your QB fits it in the window, and your receivers can go get some contested balls. In hindsight, this game might have been won something like 23-20, despite the poor red zone offense, by simply continuing the first half approach of moving the ball between the 20's. But credit the Minnesota secondary. They played well on several 50/50 downfield throws into man coverage.

Taking sacks as an offense are risks? Or poor blocking?

on the turnover on downs drive, Oconnell completed the ball to Thompson on the run. Thompson fell

 

[MilwaukeeBoilerFan]

Taking sacks as an offense are risks? Or poor blocking?

on the turnover on downs drive, Oconnell completed the ball to Thompson on the run. Thompson fell

My only critique is the ball delivery should be at the chains not YAC. It is Monday and I can be an armchair coach and QB. Why is the ball being dumped 3-4 yards behind the needed first down marker?

 

[BCfanatic2020]

My only critique is the ball delivery should be at the chains not YAC. It is Monday and I can be an armchair coach and QB. Why is the ball being dumped 3-4 yards behind the needed first down marker?

I’m just thrilled he’s able to throw for 371 without ducking. The heat is coming

 

[FirstDownB]

Taking sacks as an offense are risks? Or poor blocking?

on the turnover on downs drive, Oconnell completed the ball to Thompson on the run. Thompson fell

Throwing deep is inherently more risky than throwing short. This is obvious. The risk is realized when poor blocking leads to drive killing sacks.

Do you recall the play immediately prior to the 4th down play? 3rd & 5 in four down territory and we take a deep shot down the sideline. That is exactly what I am talking about- the risks outweighed the rewards in the 2nd half. That was a drive killer. That was QB playing hero ball. You can't rely on converting that 4th & 5.

I think deep passes are needed to keep the defense honest, but my whole point was that I think the first half we did a better job of keeping balance, being patient, taking what was given, even if it meant settling for some FG's.

 

[pboiler18]

Throwing deep is inherently more risky than throwing short. This is obvious. The risk is realized when poor blocking leads to drive killing sacks.

Do you recall the play immediately prior to the 4th down play? 3rd & 5 in four down territory and we take a deep shot down the sideline. That is exactly what I am talking about- the risks outweighed the rewards in the 2nd half. That was a drive killer. That was QB playing hero ball. You can't rely on converting that 4th & 5.

I think deep passes are needed to keep the defense honest, but my whole point was that I think the first half we did a better job of keeping balance, being patient, taking what was given, even if it meant settling for some FG's.

I disagree. I think in this offense it’s run to make 10+ yards every play.
Now, in actual practice I agree that the game can dictate something different. The weather was such you should expect a lower per play output. Are they lined up to shut down the run or have at least 6 in the box as to make it harder for us to get 5 yards in 2 plays?

I think that’s what slows this offense down. We don’t give the QB the right options in the right down and distance and game situations to make them successful.

Also, I had no issue with the throw to Thompson behind the sticks. He gets 10yac++ if he doesn’t fall.

 

[since1980]

With all the pass-catchers we have, I'd like to see more 5 wide sets like we saw during the Brees years. I think O'connel is the perfect QB to stand in the pocket and make quick reads and throw accurate quick passes that get 5-7 yards a pop. Get Sheffield and Yaseen more involved in the short passing game and then when defenses start coming up, then hit the deep balls. It would also help our running game with a more spread defense with some quick hitting runs.

 

[MilwaukeeBoilerFan]

Put play calling solely on Brian Brohm 90% or more of the time with Jeff as a advisory role . He can vote on 4th down as an override or 3rd down and long input to maintain a drive. Otherwise, tuck the laminated play card in your beltline and watch the game, study the nuances, & exploit the weaknesses that he sees. Be involved with coaching up corrections as players come off and go on the field. Watching that play card and missing some of the action could be the difference of a TD or punting the ball away. You don't get too many "next times". If you see a player injured or back up has come in...better be picking on him. Nature of the game.

 

[FirstDownB]

I disagree. I think in this offense it’s run to make 10+ yards every play.
Now, in actual practice I agree that the game can dictate something different. The weather was such you should expect a lower per play output. Are they lined up to shut down the run or have at least 6 in the box as to make it harder for us to get 5 yards in 2 plays?

I think that’s what slows this offense down. We don’t give the QB the right options in the right down and distance and game situations to make them successful.

Also, I had no issue with the throw to Thompson behind the sticks. He gets 10yac++ if he doesn’t fall.

Saturday was an instance where practicality trumped idealism. Yeah, usually with enough downfield shots with these receivers you'll connect on some. But between the pressure, coverage, and weather, it just wasn't happening on that day. The only deep passes that we were completing were to holes in the middle of their coverage, and once we got to mid field, those holes disappeared. I respect the mentality of going down swinging, so I don't have too much of a problem with the aggressiveness. But it was definitely a contributor to the lack of scoring in the second half. And I believe the red zone struggles absolutely were a part of the thought process.

 

[SunnyFL24]

Can we roll the QB out on occasions to bide some time When passing?? Here's a thought....screw the huddle ....run to the line of scrimmage and run uptempo offense so the defense can't substitute their packages!!! I don't care if we're running bubble screens and quick slants all day long!! Change the sh## up!!!

 

[ImRonBurgandy?]

A mobile QB would look really good in this offense...I mean really good.

 

[YouSayPotato]

Can we roll the QB out on occasions to bide some time When passing??

Don't be silly. We can't do that. That would confuse our offensive linemen, the officials, the fans and the quarterback himself. We need to take a sack when the QB is pressured.

 

[BCfanatic2020]

Throwing deep is inherently more risky than throwing short. This is obvious. The risk is realized when poor blocking leads to drive killing sacks.

Do you recall the play immediately prior to the 4th down play? 3rd & 5 in four down territory and we take a deep shot down the sideline. That is exactly what I am talking about- the risks outweighed the rewards in the 2nd half. That was a drive killer. That was QB playing hero ball. You can't rely on converting that 4th & 5.

I think deep passes are needed to keep the defense honest, but my whole point was that I think the first half we did a better job of keeping balance, being patient, taking what was given, even if it meant settling for some FG's.

If I’m in the seat of Minnesota’s DC I create that risk…

> you guys can’t run the ball; you can a little if I pretty much ignore it, but even then I can contain it
> nothing intermediate .. I’m gonna clog that area of his field and make you beat me in the flat or deep.

Minnesota did what I’ve been trying to say they teams do. “Why can I exploit? The entire OL? Bet.” And then they designed an entire gameplan directed at our weaknesses. Even down to bending but not breaking because they know we are not functional running the ball in the red zone.

I frankly think that the idea that “oh we just need to make better choices,” with a few check down exceptions late, is just faulty reasoning.

things will look a lot better … and some people will think our QBs just started making better decisions … when our OL gets confronted by 5 defenders and before you know it our running back is 35 yards up field.

start looking at where our linebackers and safeties are and then check out where the opponents are

 

[FirstDownB]

A mobile QB would look really good in this offense...I mean really good.

If by mobile you mean one that could throw accurately and outrun a D1 linebacker, then YES.
That was the idea with Sam Jackson but couldn’t get the commitment to stick.

 

[SKYDOG]

Don't be silly. We can't do that. That would confuse our offensive linemen, the officials, the fans and the quarterback himself. We need to take a sack when the QB is pressured.

Should be able to get excellent FG kickers by doing so. 🤣

 

[FirstDownB]

things will look a lot better … and some people will think our QBs just started making better decisions … when our OL gets confronted by 5 defenders and before you know it our running back is 35 yards up field.

How do you expect this to happen?

 

[BCfanatic2020]

How do you expect this to happen?

It’s not going to in season …

 

[MilwaukeeBoilerFan]

Can we roll the QB out on occasions to bide some time When passing?? Here's a thought....screw the huddle ....run to the line of scrimmage and run uptempo offense so the defense can't substitute their packages!!! I don't care if we're running bubble screens and quick slants all day long!! Change the sh## up!!!

I do like the pure no huddle pressure to keep other teams defenses off balance. I do believe the NCAA rules have instituted the refs to hold the ball to allow defensive substitutes.
Regardless, put them on their heels 2 maybe 3 per game to manufacture offensive production and try to gas some of their DL. Don’t do the no huddle and wait/watch what the coach wants to call. If that is the case, may as well huddle up.

Aaron Rodgers punish the slow to get off the field players & guarantee you 5 yards and go sky patterns for all receivers to take a shot. 5 yards or TD.
Practicing no huddle pays off as Purdue would have more reps outside of end of 1st half and end of game.

 

[SDBoiler1]

I disagree. I think in this offense it’s run to make 10+ yards every play.
Now, in actual practice I agree that the game can dictate something different. The weather was such you should expect a lower per play output. Are they lined up to shut down the run or have at least 6 in the box as to make it harder for us to get 5 yards in 2 plays?

I think that’s what slows this offense down. We don’t give the QB the right options in the right down and distance and game situations to make them successful.

Also, I had no issue with the throw to Thompson behind the sticks. He gets 10yac++ if he doesn’t fall.

It’s a mystery to me why he went down at all. After watching and rewatching that play, it almost appeared that he dove on purpose. It almost seemed like he thought he was beyond the sticks.

O’Connell’s throw was somewhat low but Thompson didn’t need to dive for the ball. There was no one around him. It’s like he panicked on that play.

 

[ImRonBurgandy?]

It’s a mystery to me why he went down at all. After watching and rewatching that play, it almost appeared that he dove on purpose. It almost seemed like he thought he was beyond the sticks.

O’Connell’s throw was somewhat low but Thompson didn’t need to dive for the ball. There was no one around him. It’s like he panicked on that play.

A little better throw there and like the poster above said, 10 yac.

These are the kind of plays Purdue usually screws up. Not the easiest plays, but certainly ones high D1 players need to make.

Going back to the ND game, Plummer rolls out of trouble and throws it into the feet of Wright who would have had a first down had it been a decent throw. At the time, Drew said if you're Purdue you've got to make those plays.

 

[FLAG HUNTER]

A little better throw there and like the poster above said, 10 yac.

These are the kind of plays Purdue usually screws up. Not the easiest plays, but certainly ones high D1 players need to make.

Going back to the ND game, Plummer rolls out of trouble and throws it into the feet of Wright who would have had a first down had it been a decent throw. At the time, Drew said if you're Purdue you've got to make those plays.

I agree, Purdue shoots themselves in the foot way too often.

 

[MilwaukeeBoilerFan]

A little better throw there and like the poster above said, 10 yac.

These are the kind of plays Purdue usually screws up. Not the easiest plays, but certainly ones high D1 players need to make.

Going back to the ND game, Plummer rolls out of trouble and throws it into the feet of Wright who would have had a first down had it been a decent throw. At the time, Drew said if you're Purdue you've got to make those plays.

Amazing how easy Drew made it look as well. It seemed that he had eyes in the back of his head and could feel the pressure and escape. We have had very good QB's, but a once in a generation QB has not come thru that Ross Ade stadium entrance in close to 22 years. Purdue is hopefully on the cusp of making that happen.

 

[daveK-RELOADED]

With our spread offense, we have struggled with the red zone area for years. Maybe not as bad, we even had trouble with that during the Tiller years.

We can try to go with longer vertical shots, but will our OL hold up to give the QB time? Most of the time, probably not. With O'Connell as QB, he is not going to be able to scramble out of the pocket to buy time for plays to open up, if the line cannot keep the pocket open.

I just don't know we have the personnel right now to solve this problem.

You have no decent O-Line, no QB and no RB that has any speed. Just kick the FG and hope your defense can score 21 points.