College Basketball Top 25

Jun 1, 2022
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I do a Top 25 every year, I update on Monday mornings before the AP releases. Yes, I am an IU fan. No, I do not show any bias towards IU or the Big Ten.

1. North Carolina
2. Gonzaga
3. Houston
4. Kansas
5. Duke
6. Baylor
7. Kentucky
8. Creighton
9. UCLA
10. Texas
11. Tennessee
12. Auburn
13. TCU
14. Virginia
15. Arkansas
16. Alabama
17. Oregon
18. Villanova
19. Indiana
20. Michigan
21. Illinois
22. Arizona
23. San Diego State
24. Xavier
25. Texas Tech
 
Nov 25, 2011
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I do a Top 25 every year, I update on Monday mornings before the AP releases. Yes, I am an IU fan. No, I do not show any bias towards IU or the Big Ten.

1. North Carolina
2. Gonzaga
3. Houston
4. Kansas
5. Duke
6. Baylor
7. Kentucky
8. Creighton
9. UCLA
10. Texas
11. Tennessee
12. Auburn
13. TCU
14. Virginia
15. Arkansas
16. Alabama
17. Oregon
18. Villanova
19. Indiana
20. Michigan
21. Illinois
22. Arizona
23. San Diego State
24. Xavier
25. Texas Tech
Appreciate your energy on this but respectfully, what a waste of energy in the first month of the season. Can you or anyone else really have a legitimate feel for how good TCU or Texas Tech or SD St. Is?
Come back with this in mid-December and I think you can generate meaningful discussions and opinions.
 

ehuffma1

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I thought IU was overrated as a top 10 team in a few polls. I think 15-25 is about right. I think Purdue will end up in the top 25 at some point this year. Should be an interesting year.
 
Jun 1, 2022
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Appreciate your energy on this but respectfully, what a waste of energy in the first month of the season. Can you or anyone else really have a legitimate feel for how good TCU or Texas Tech or SD St. Is?
Come back with this in mid-December and I think you can generate meaningful discussions and opinions.
Do I think it's a waste? Not really? Is it fun? Absolutely. Conversation starter? Absolutely. It isn't gospel, just fun.
 

ehuffma1

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(Neither is anybody else, at least as it applies to Michigan…?)
Michigan has a talented roster. I believe they have a few players back, including Dickinson, but they are far from a finished product. Top 25 is probably warranted, but they struggled at times last year. Dickinson might be the player of the year in the league.

IU has the most experienced roster. They deserve a 15-20 ranking IMO. They struggled to score last year at times. TJD has a legit shot to me the Big10 POY.

I think both these teams will be at the top of the league, but if you gave me the field vs. IU and Michigan winning the league, I'd take the field. Purdue, Iowa, MSU, Illinois and some others are all well coached. I think at the end of the year, we might see a few teams emerge as contenders other than IU/Michigan.
 

BoilerFan#35

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Jun 30, 2012
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IU still cant shoot. Love how everyone rides off Wisky. Especially with what Hepburn showed as a frosh. They will likely be top 25 just like Purdue. I dont think the big ten has a top 10 team right now but there are 7-8 top 25 candidate teams. No one is above the pack as of right now. My best guess for an elite team by end of year would be Michigan. Dickinson is just too good of a big. Can stretch the floor unlike most bigs in conference.
 
Jun 1, 2022
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IU still cant shoot. Love how everyone rides off Wisky. Especially with what Hepburn showed as a frosh. They will likely be top 25 just like Purdue. I dont think the big ten has a top 10 team right now but there are 7-8 top 25 candidate teams. No one is above the pack as of right now. My best guess for an elite team by end of year would be Michigan. Dickinson is just too good of a big. Can stretch the floor unlike most bigs in conference.
It is yet to be seen how Indiana's shooting will be this year. But what they did do was cut some fat off with Phonics, Lander, Durr and Stewart leaving and replaced them with two guys who are Top 25 players in the conference in Hood-Schifino and Reneau. Just gotta hope shots go in. They did in two exhibitions but who knows if that'll translate to anything. Everyone knows come B1G time it'll be who can win the joke of a rugby match B1G basketball has become.
 

HoosierfanJM

Sophomore
Feb 7, 2013
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Hot take: I believe that Jalen Hood-Schifino is a substantial upgrade from every guard IU had on their roster last year, and that includes Xavier Johnson.

Hot take #2: The second best big on IU's roster this year is likely not Race Thompson; it is Malik Reneau.

And it's not because these two had outstanding stat lines in the two exhibitions; it is because while on the court with the more experienced players on IU's roster, other than Trayce they were completely superior to the other experienced players. Gotta play the games and stay healthy, but that is real cause for IU optimism that goes far beyond IU being experienced.

Semi-hot take: Trey Kaufman is the second best player on Purdue's roster, and whoever is third best is not especially close to him.
 
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Aug 27, 2018
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I do a Top 25 every year, I update on Monday mornings before the AP releases. Yes, I am an IU fan. No, I do not show any bias towards IU or the Big Ten.

1. North Carolina
2. Gonzaga
3. Houston
4. Kansas
5. Duke
6. Baylor
7. Kentucky
8. Creighton
9. UCLA
10. Texas
11. Tennessee
12. Auburn
13. TCU
14. Virginia
15. Arkansas
16. Alabama
17. Oregon
18. Villanova
19. Indiana
20. Michigan
21. Illinois
22. Arizona
23. San Diego State
24. Xavier
2

Do I think it's a waste? Not really? Is it fun? Absolutely. Conversation starter? Absolutely. It isn't gospel, just fun.
As long as you feel the same when people don't agree. That said, I think IU "should" be good, but they have been here before. I think Purdue has the all around better team 1-10, possibly 1-11.
 

HoosierfanJM

Sophomore
Feb 7, 2013
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IU still cant shoot. Love how everyone rides off Wisky. Especially with what Hepburn showed as a frosh. They will likely be top 25 just like Purdue. I dont think the big ten has a top 10 team right now but there are 7-8 top 25 candidate teams. No one is above the pack as of right now. My best guess for an elite team by end of year would be Michigan. Dickinson is just too good of a big. Can stretch the floor unlike most bigs in conference.
Anyone that writes off Wisconsin is ignoring the track record of about 15 years under the Ryan/Gard system. Not sure how people can ignore the evidence of sustained success with practically no down years.
 
Aug 27, 2018
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It could be a rough year.. but maybe flying under the radar will be good for once.

Are you talking about the big 10 as a whole flying under the radar, or I.U., cause I.U. is not under the radar. They have been in every poll I have seen.
 
Aug 27, 2018
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Anyone that writes off Wisconsin is ignoring the track record of about 15 years under the Ryan/Gard system. Not sure how people can ignore the evidence of sustained success with practically no down years.
I agree with not writing them off. Wisconsin and Michigan are the two teams you cannot write off.
 

proudopete

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It is yet to be seen how Indiana's shooting will be this year. But what they did do was cut some fat off with Phonics, Lander, Durr and Stewart leaving and replaced them with two guys who are Top 25 players in the conference in Hood-Schifino and Reneau. Just gotta hope shots go in. They did in two exhibitions but who knows if that'll translate to anything. Everyone knows come B1G time it'll be who can win the joke of a rugby match B1G basketball has become.
36.8% against a horrible squad. Smoking numbers from deep.
 

johnboiler123

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Jul 23, 2020
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It is yet to be seen how Indiana's shooting will be this year. But what they did do was cut some fat off with Phonics, Lander, Durr and Stewart leaving and replaced them with two guys who are Top 25 players in the conference in Hood-Schifino and Reneau. Just gotta hope shots go in. They did in two exhibitions but who knows if that'll translate to anything. Everyone knows come B1G time it'll be who can win the joke of a rugby match B1G basketball has become.
Already declaring both freshman top 25 players and the season hasn't even started yet?
 
Jul 8, 2019
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Michigan has a talented roster. I believe they have a few players back, including Dickinson, but they are far from a finished product. Top 25 is probably warranted, but they struggled at times last year. Dickinson might be the player of the year in the league.

IU has the most experienced roster. They deserve a 15-20 ranking IMO. They struggled to score last year at times. TJD has a legit shot to me the Big10 POY.

I think both these teams will be at the top of the league, but if you gave me the field vs. IU and Michigan winning the league, I'd take the field. Purdue, Iowa, MSU, Illinois and some others are all well coached. I think at the end of the year, we might see a few teams emerge as contenders other than IU/Michigan.
My point was more it’s not a consensus that those are the top two … the preseason picks are rightfully all over the place. Hell, the official preseason poll has Illinois second, not Michigan.

The league is as wide open as it’s ever been, and people are defaulting toward Indiana because they don’t know what else to do.
 

Thadoc1

Silver Member
Oct 24, 2022
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Hot take: I believe that Jalen Hood-Schifino is a substantial upgrade from every guard IU had on their roster last year, and that includes Xavier Johnson.

Hot take #2: The second best big on IU's roster this year is likely not Race Thompson; it is Malik Reneau.

And it's not because these two had outstanding stat lines in the two exhibitions; it is because while on the court with the more experienced players on IU's roster, other than Trayce they were completely superior to the other experienced players. Gotta play the games and stay healthy, but that is real cause for IU optimism that goes far beyond IU being experienced.

Semi-hot take: Trey Kaufman is the second best player on Purdue's roster, and whoever is third best is not especially close to him.
Problem with IU's roster is that even though they have a lot of talent, their best players play the same position....X and JHS can't play at the same time and reneau and tjd can't play together either...that will limit their ceiling....good team but nothing special....
 

HoosierfanJM

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Feb 7, 2013
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Problem with IU's roster is that even though they have a lot of talent, their best players play the same position....X and JHS can't play at the same time and reneau and tjd can't play together either...that will limit their ceiling....good team but nothing special....
X and JHS are the starting guard tandem. Maybe it won’t work well, but X is the starting point and JHS is at the two. When X sits JHS slides to the point.

IU will have two of TJD, Race, and Reneau on the court for almost the whole game. That’s the 5/4 combo—80 total minutes for the three of them.

IU doesnt have Edey tall-equivalents anywhere, but all ten rotation players are 6’3”-6’9”, with X the only one listed under 6’5”. They’re gonna switch a lot of screens. That’s not a problem for a Painter-style curl and catch offense, but it should be pretty effective against teams that over-rely on high ball screens.
 

Thadoc1

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Oct 24, 2022
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X and JHS are the starting guard tandem. Maybe it won’t work well, but X is the starting point and JHS is at the two. When X sits JHS slides to the point.

IU will have two of TJD, Race, and Reneau on the court for almost the whole game. That’s the 5/4 combo—80 total minutes for the three of them.

IU doesnt have Edey tall-equivalents anywhere, but all ten rotation players are 6’3”-6’9”, with X the only one listed under 6’5”. They’re gonna switch a lot of screens. That’s not a problem for a Painter-style curl and catch offense, but it should be pretty effective against teams that over-rely on high ball screens.
Shooting is an issue for playing those guys together .....playing 2 bigs limits the lane opening up for your 2 pgs that need space to penetrate...unless X gets more consistent shooting or tjd is able to hit a 3, your offense will struggle...I have no doubts your defense will be great but not having an efficient offense will keep you guys from anything great...race is a great 4 for you guys, reneau will not be taking his minutes...I can see chemistry issues with your good freshmen needing to play more and your established players having to play less....
 
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HoosierfanJM

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Shooting is an issue for playing those guys together .....playing 2 bigs limits the lane opening up for your 2 pgs that need space to penetrate...unless X gets more consistent shooting or tjd is able to hit a 3, your offense will struggle...I have no doubts your defense will be great but not having an efficient offense will keep you guys from anything great...race is a great 4 for you guys, reneau will not be taking his minutes...I can see chemistry issues with your good freshmen needing to play more and your established players having to play less....
All true. Need X and Race to continue shooting +35% like the second half of last season, and Hood-Schifino to be 35%+.

Not especially worried about chemistry issues— that’s on Woodson and he seems to be a monumental upgrade over Archie with team chemistry.

One thing I kinda disagree with— Race will play plenty, but Reneau is showing that he’s going to get 25minutes per game from somewhere. I’d compare it to the TKR situation at Purdue where a new guy is likely to take some minutes from a veteran player because he looks so, so good. File it under “happy problem.”
 
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Thadoc1

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Oct 24, 2022
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All true. Need X and Race to continue shooting +35% like the second half of last season, and Hood-Schifino to be 35%+.

Not especially worried about chemistry issues— that’s on Woodson and he seems to be a monumental upgrade over Archie with team chemistry
I think this year's team for iu reminds me of Purdue a little last year...we couldn't play edey and Trevion together and Newman didn't play because of how he fit on the team even though he's one of our best shooters...Painter had chemistry issues I think...if Woodson can figure how to make all that talent happy and win big, he should be coach of the year...if I were an iu fan I would be worried about how these great players can play together and make each other better...
 
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HoosierfanJM

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I think this year's team for iu reminds me of Purdue a little last year...we couldn't play edey and Trevion together and Newman didn't play because of how he fit on the team even though he's one of our best shooters...Painter had chemistry issues I think...if Woodson can figure how to make all that talent happy and win big, he should be coach of the year...if I were an iu fan I would be worried about how these great players can play together and make each other better...
Excellent discussion—who else do you think is under/overrated to start the year?

I think that Iowa is a top 25 team and that as always lately, UK will start out near the top and underachieve. Also really like Tennessee and Texas. Beard is going to crush it at Texas in year two with that roster—they look like a top 5 team to me.
 

Thadoc1

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Excellent discussion—who else do you think is under/overrated to start the year?

I think that Iowa is a top 25 team and that as always lately, UK will start out near the top and underachieve. Also really like Tennessee and Texas. Beard is going to crush it at Texas in year two with that roster—they look like a top 5 team to me.
Wow a reasonable discussion with an iu fan...not a common thing here....big ten I think Michigan will be pretty good...their transfer is solid, Dickinson is great and they have good but young players everywhere...Illinois will be up and down, they have talent but getting transfers to mesh is not easy....they could peak at the end of the year but will lose games they shouldn't early....Iowa will be solid, no superstar but fran is a good coach and he knows offense....middle of the pack team....Wisconsin will surprise and I think osu will be better than people know....msu will be solid and psu, Rutgers and Maryland will beat some teams....I see about 7 teams that have legit shot for the title...I think both Purdue and iu finish top 5 at least...the schedule will be a huge issue and unfortunately for iu, you guys got hosed there...I don't really follow the national scene that much so I'm clueless there....big ten will have some good teams, just no one elite that will be a 1 seed....who are your teams this year?....
 

HoosierfanJM

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Wisconsin? Of course. As sure as death and taxes. Chucky Hepburn is excellent.

I don’t see Purdue contending with Smith Loyer, Jenkins, Newman, and Morton at guard. Purdue is an odd, interesting team this year; talent level is overloaded on the frontline, but the roster construction is wacky. I know people love him here, but I’m not a believer that Smith will ever be a plus starter on a ranked team. When you’re that small you need to be more athletic than he is. I feel like his comp is PJ Thompson.

Love Iowa-watch Sandfort and Perkins pop. Not sold on Illinois or Michigan. Illinois has the opposite problem from Purdue—excellent from 1-3 but very little at the 4/5. But you’re spot-on; Illinois has a dream schedule.
 
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Wisconsin? Of course. As sure as death and taxes. Chucky Hepburn is excellent.

I don’t see Purdue contending with Smith Loyer, Jenkins, Newman, and Morton at guard. Purdue is an odd, interesting team this year; talent level is overloaded on the frontline, but the roster construction is wacky. I know people love him here, but I’m not a believer that Smith will ever be a plus starter on a ranked team. When you’re that small you need to be more athletic than he is. I feel like his comp is PJ Thompson.

Love Iowa-watch Sandfort and Perkins pop. Not sold on Illinois or Michigan. Illinois has the opposite problem from Purdue—excellent from 1-3 but very little at the 4/5. But you’re spot-on; Illinois has a dream schedule.
I think Purdue is hoping Smith is more like Jordy Hulls. Which is possible I guess, but Hulls was able to be hidden some on defense thanks to an elite defender in Oladipo, which Purdue as of now doesn't have.
 
Jun 1, 2022
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Wisconsin? Of course. As sure as death and taxes. Chucky Hepburn is excellent.

I don’t see Purdue contending with Smith Loyer, Jenkins, Newman, and Morton at guard. Purdue is an odd, interesting team this year; talent level is overloaded on the frontline, but the roster construction is wacky. I know people love him here, but I’m not a believer that Smith will ever be a plus starter on a ranked team. When you’re that small you need to be more athletic than he is. I feel like his comp is PJ Thompson.

Love Iowa-watch Sandfort and Perkins pop. Not sold on Illinois or Michigan. Illinois has the opposite problem from Purdue—excellent from 1-3 but very little at the 4/5. But you’re spot-on; Illinois has a dream schedule.
I'm liking this season because it reminds me more of the 2012-2013 season. I don't Indiana will on that level and the Big Ten won't be anywhere near that level, but in terms of upperclassmen leading the way like they did that season, made it awesome. Every single team has so many questions. I'm interested in seeing how UNC continues from last year's run, watching Tshiebwe dominate the boards. Right now there isn't a clear cut favorite to cut down the nets and I don't remember the last time we had that in CBB.
 

Thadoc1

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Wisconsin? Of course. As sure as death and taxes. Chucky Hepburn is excellent.

I don’t see Purdue contending with Smith Loyer, Jenkins, Newman, and Morton at guard. Purdue is an odd, interesting team this year; talent level is overloaded on the frontline, but the roster construction is wacky. I know people love him here, but I’m not a believer that Smith will ever be a plus starter on a ranked team. When you’re that small you need to be more athletic than he is. I feel like his comp is PJ Thompson.

Love Iowa-watch Sandfort and Perkins pop. Not sold on Illinois or Michigan. Illinois has the opposite problem from Purdue—excellent from 1-3 but very little at the 4/5. But you’re spot-on; Illinois has a dream schedule.
On paper Purdue's guards aren't highly ranked but there is some talent there....smith will not be an all star but will do the little things for a team to win....Jenkins is a great shooter, solid passer and is strong....not super quick but has an old man's game that is crafty....Newman is a great shooter, Morton is an excellent wing defender....loyer is solid, can shoot and pass....not worried about our guards....our issue is playing our best line ups together and handling penetration....Painter knows basketball so I'm sure he'll figure that out....Woodson is still an unknown as a coach so that's why I'm higher on Purdue than iu because even though you guys have more talent, Painter has proven himself as a guy that can maximize his teams talent....btw pj started on some teams that were ranked top 5 so if he is a smith clone then I'm not worried....
 

HoosierfanJM

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On paper Purdue's guards aren't highly ranked but there is some talent there....smith will not be an all star but will do the little things for a team to win....Jenkins is a great shooter, solid passer and is strong....not super quick but has an old man's game that is crafty....Newman is a great shooter, Morton is an excellent wing defender....loyer is solid, can shoot and pass....not worried about our guards....our issue is playing our best line ups together and handling penetration....Painter knows basketball so I'm sure he'll figure that out....Woodson is still an unknown as a coach so that's why I'm higher on Purdue than iu because even though you guys have more talent, Painter has proven himself as a guy that can maximize his teams talent....btw pj started on some teams that were ranked top 5 so if he is a smith clone then I'm not worried....
PJ Thompson turned into a heady point for sure. If Smith can be him that’d be a nice get for Purdue.

Jenkins has washed out at two bad programs, primarily because of defense. He’s not likely to turn into anyone’s answer in his fifth year.
 

ehuffma1

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On paper Purdue's guards aren't highly ranked but there is some talent there....smith will not be an all star but will do the little things for a team to win....Jenkins is a great shooter, solid passer and is strong....not super quick but has an old man's game that is crafty....Newman is a great shooter, Morton is an excellent wing defender....loyer is solid, can shoot and pass....not worried about our guards....our issue is playing our best line ups together and handling penetration....Painter knows basketball so I'm sure he'll figure that out....Woodson is still an unknown as a coach so that's why I'm higher on Purdue than iu because even though you guys have more talent, Painter has proven himself as a guy that can maximize his teams talent....btw pj started on some teams that were ranked top 5 so if he is a smith clone then I'm not worried....
I don’t know what to make of Smith. I need to see it with my own eyes. I was hoping for a Bohannon comp. I think he’s far quicker and scrappier than him. I have not seen him shoot well so far, but I hear he’s a guy who can knock down open shots. Really early to know for a fan. Painter loves him.

Loyer is much the same for me. I think he’s got some craftiness to his game. I was hoping for a Kyle Guy comp. I don’t know what his ceiling actually can be, but he’s looked like he belongs on the court so far.

Painter likes these two and is going to groom them for next year and beyond. I think we have an ok season this year and are really good next year.
 

Indy2Jax

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Anyone that writes off Wisconsin is ignoring the track record of about 15 years under the Ryan/Gard system. Not sure how people can ignore the evidence of sustained success with practically no down years.
2017 was a down year.
 

HoosierfanJM

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I don’t know what to make of Smith. I need to see it with my own eyes. I was hoping for a Bohannon comp. I think he’s far quicker and scrappier than him. I have not seen him shoot well so far, but I hear he’s a guy who can knock down open shots. Really early to know for a fan. Painter loves him.

Loyer is much the same for me. I think he’s got some craftiness to his game. I was hoping for a Kyle Guy comp. I don’t know what his ceiling actually can be, but he’s looked like he belongs on the court so far.

Painter likes these two and is going to groom them for next year and beyond. I think we have an ok season this year and are really good next year.
Painter singing Smith’s praises is important—he doesn’t usually blow smoke.
 
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X and JHS are the starting guard tandem. Maybe it won’t work well, but X is the starting point and JHS is at the two. When X sits JHS slides to the point.

IU will have two of TJD, Race, and Reneau on the court for almost the whole game. That’s the 5/4 combo—80 total minutes for the three of them.

IU doesnt have Edey tall-equivalents anywhere, but all ten rotation players are 6’3”-6’9”, with X the only one listed under 6’5”. They’re gonna switch a lot of screens. That’s not a problem for a Painter-style curl and catch offense, but it should be pretty effective against teams that over-rely on high ball screens.

I know Race Thompson can rebound, but him and Miller Kopp are hands down the TWO most overrated IU players they have . X has looked out of control for the most part so far, but I know he got better last season towards the end and even though he got into some trouble, he was a pretty good pt. guard . The freshman, I am sure will be good for IU. Tamar would of had to of gotten a lot better for me to brag on him. Trayce carries this team for the most part and is pretty consistent even though he has no mid range shot . Everybody else for now is mediocre . I have NEVER understood why anyone goes on about Miller Kopp. He plays average and does nothing to make you think he should start over anyone else.


Reminder, I am married to an IU guy, so I know about the team.
 
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Purdue Grad in Texas

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PJ Thompson turned into a heady point for sure. If Smith can be him that’d be a nice get for Purdue.

Jenkins has washed out at two bad programs, primarily because of defense. He’s not likely to turn into anyone’s answer in his fifth year.

Ruh-roh.....that's a possible call-out for Lenny. :)

2017 was a down year.

'18 and '21 (made the tournament) weren't your typical possible contender Badger teams. With Davis gone, it will be a different challenger.....has some pieces, but a few guys will have to embrace larger roles......we shall see what Gard's team can do.
 

HoosierfanJM

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I know Race Thompson can rebound, but him and Miller Kopp are hands down the TWO most overrated IU players they have . X has looked out of control for the most part so far, but I know he got better last season towards the end and even though he got into some trouble, he was a pretty good pt. guard . The freshman, I am sure will be good for IU. Tamar would of had to of gotten a lot better for me to brag on him. Trayce carries this team for the most part and is pretty consistent even though he has no mid range shot . Everybody else for now is mediocre . I have NEVER understood why anyone goes on about Miller Kopp. He plays average and does nothing to make you think he should start over anyone else.


Reminder, I am married to an IU guy, so I know about the team.
If Race and Kopp are featured on offense it’s not good. As role players? They’re both valuable