CMP Salary Increases? Should Be a Final 4 Bonus...

boilerball2021

Redshirt Freshman
Gold Member
Jul 29, 2021
1,351
821
113
Painter has done a great job getting the most out of individual developmental players. However, last year is a prime example of where he wasn't very adaptable on key issues, defense being one of them. Players were out of position and overplaying help defense so often it was almost comical. People here will say that's on the players, and to some extent it is. But when you see it game after game after game, it's at some point on the coach to make changes. He really didn't. And it cost him the B1G.

Again, I'm not suggesting any kind of a coaching change. But for those that are in denial about his stubbornness in game plan, you only need to look at the tape. And quite frankly, a monkey could have better game planned against St Peters...
What specifically was the poor game plan against St Peter’s?
 
  • Haha
Reactions: BSIT

boilerball2021

Redshirt Freshman
Gold Member
Jul 29, 2021
1,351
821
113
I agree with a lot of that...

I am not sure about a change per se in terms of athleticism as much as a definite (and unique) focus on size (and, still unsure whether that really makes sense or not...but, there is a focus on it).

I am not sure if that is a product of what he likes to do offensively, or, something that he feels like gives him an advantage of some sort...does not really matter, as, it is a clear and conscious decision, and, he has gone that way.

My knock...class imbalance...it has not haunted him/Purdue as it may have, but, it has been poised to do so certainly. He has managed to land a couple of really good big classes more than once...not easy to do...which is why I hate it, and, he has not been able to successfully add to/round out classes a couple of times as a result as well.

And, I agree in that there is not the strict adherence offensively that there is defensively...and, that he has a great knowledge of that side of things...it is why I dreaded the loss of Shrewsberry...even Gary had come along way in that regard...I was not enamored with Johnson last year...which, all goes to another point entirely...his staff...he has had some great assistant coaches during his time...I am not sure how great the staff is presently.

As things stand, I don't know with NIL and transfer portal and COVID years what matters, never mind what matters most.

I guess my concern, and, belief even (at least to an extent) is that Painter's best days (and, Purdue's as such) have already happened...and, while there have been some really nice things that have happened and a bunch of wins along the way, I have to think the consensus would be that Purdue has had a handful of chances during his time where a FF run was not only realistic, but, even a somewhat reasonable expectation...never more so than this past year.
I would actually agree with class imbalance being an issue, and I think a big part of that is how often he redshirts players. What percentage of redshirts have actually played their 5th year at Purdue? It can’t be very high.
 

bonefish1

All-American
Oct 4, 2004
14,007
12,905
113
Necessary? No, probably not. With a win over St Pete and a 2nd EE in a 3-yr span, I think you could argue it more easily, though I personally would still struggle justifying it as necessary. For example, how many schools with a better basketball program than Purdue’s would want to steal him away AND be in a position to pay him more than he’s already making (presumably CMP wouldn’t leave for a pay decrease, and probably not even for equal pay, nor is he likely to take a step down to a lesser P5 program hoops-wise).

Setting aside college sports coaching pay, which is astronomical and way in excess of what I think they should be paid, I do wonder what Purdue’s broader position is on wage increases. Particularly for low wage earners in janitorial roles, cafe workers, etc., inflation and higher cost of living has been an incredible pain point for working people. You could give more than 100 employees a $2/hr wage increase for less than the amount of raise Painter just got. For your lowest paid people, that’s food security, gas to get to work, daycare, etc. I hope the university is taking care of these people as well.
You're paid what you're worth. A monkey can do most low wage jobs that don't require any unique skills other than showing up. That's not worth more.
 

bonefish1

All-American
Oct 4, 2004
14,007
12,905
113
Painter could go pretty much whenever he wanted if he decided to leave Purdue, and I wouldn’t be shocked if he were to retire soon with the new NIL and Transfer rules.

Painter has 3 Big Ten championships. He has a Big Ten Tournament championship. He’s been to the Sweet 16 6 times and the Elite 8 one time. Given those stats, I would absolutely say he wins when it matters.

Name a coach you would rather have that would REALISTICALLY come here.
Here we go again.......Are you the type of Purdue fan who's happy with finishing in the top 4 of the B10 and making the tourney, anything else is gravy.
As for "who would Purdue get better than Painter?"
Give me the budget and I'll give you the candidates.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Russ Ford

bonefish1

All-American
Oct 4, 2004
14,007
12,905
113
Why do you care if Painter gets a retention bonus? As I said, he could leave and get a job most would consider better in an instant. That’s one of the beautiful things about Painter. He’s loyal. He doesn’t have his agent shop his name around every offseason in order to get paid more.

You can say you want to keep Painter, but your posts say otherwise. Unless you are just shitposting just to shitpost.
If Painter decided to leave Purdue, what top Bball programs do you think would hire him? Duke, UNC, UK, Kansas, Nova?
 

bonefish1

All-American
Oct 4, 2004
14,007
12,905
113
It was reported that UCLA, Arizona, and Louisville all reached out to gauge Painter’s interest for their job openings in the last two years. Those are undoubtedly considered better jobs. Painter is an elite Xs and Os coach, but always has less talent than the majority of his peers. Some of that may be on Painter’s recruiting, but I think it’s more so on other recruiting factors like location. If he were to go to a place that recruits itself, I believe he would win a championship rather easily.
It's 100% on Painter's recruiting. Has zero, zilch, nada, to do with location. Location is the lamest excuse ever created for recruiting failures.
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: SDBoiler1 and BSIT

bonefish1

All-American
Oct 4, 2004
14,007
12,905
113
If Painter were to resign tomorrow, I think there would be a lot of excitement among a decent percentage of the fan base to see who MBob would go after.
I think Purdue needs to entirely change it's bball culture and get someone completely unaffiliated with Keady, Painter or Purdue.
 

pubill

True Freshman
Jan 2, 2021
803
1,177
93
Trying to dominate thru Edey when you know he has ball security issues and is going to get triple teamed. It was like watching a car wreck in slow motion...

If Painter were to resign tomorrow, I think there would be a lot of excitement among a decent percentage of the fan base to see who MBob would go after.
I think Purdue needs to entirely change it's bball culture and get someone completely unaffiliated with Keady, Painter or Purdue.
ok, the lets get rid of Tiller and lets hire Hazel crew will be excited.......
 

pubill

True Freshman
Jan 2, 2021
803
1,177
93
If Painter decided to leave Purdue, what top Bball programs do you think would hire him? Duke, UNC, UK, Kansas, Nova?
Painter definitely has a better resume than Scheyer at Duke. Duke hired him due to legacy only. I think Nova would hire him in a heartbeat.
 
  • Like
Reactions: boilerball2021

DAG10

All-American
Nov 2, 2018
5,486
8,227
113
Painter definitely has a better resume than Scheyer at Duke. Duke hired him due to legacy only. I think Nova would hire him in a heartbeat.
There were plenty of people with a better resume than Painter when he was hired at Purdue...he was hired at/by Purdue for the exact same reason, and, while Painter had been a HC for a year, Scheyer has direct experience at/with Duke that Painter lacked at/with Purdue (or, even at that level).
 
  • Like
Reactions: purduepat1969

DAG10

All-American
Nov 2, 2018
5,486
8,227
113
ok, the lets get rid of Tiller and lets hire Hazel crew will be excited.......
Eh, Purdue tried the same lame succession plan (largely so as to save money) in going to Hope and it just did not work out.

Purdue/Burke did run Tiller off prematurely, but, it was a product in part of having lost so many assistants and all of the nickle-and-diming otherwise around/with the program.
 
  • Like
Reactions: purduepat1969

FirstDownB

All-American
Oct 12, 2015
9,260
13,007
113
A lot of people miss the point when it comes to coaching compensation. It is more about the value they bring to the program than their specific accomplishments. What is the value of this coach in comparison to a replacement level coach? That determines what you will pay to retain him.
In football that is pretty obvious- replacement level for Purdue is a .500 program. Tiller and Jack on one extreme, Hazell and Akers on the other. Danny Hope right in the middle. Brohm is unquestionably second only to Tiller in terms of success over the last 40+ years and 7 coaches. He is the difference between a mostly empty Ross-Ade stadium and a mostly full one over the past 5 years. If he left there is better than a 50/50 chance that the athletic department would lose millions of dollars per year.

Painter is harder to gauge. Purdue has had only 2 MBB head coaches in the past 40+ years, so the sample size is very small. How do you draw definitive conclusions about what a replacement level coach for Purdue truly is? The game has changed a lot since George King and Piggy Lambert. Are we a historically great program with a high major budget, a rabid fanbase, massive home court advantage, in a recruiting hotbed that would be attractive to any top 10 coach? Or are we just another P5 school on a budget that refuses to take shortcuts to success and doesn't have the benefit of a large subway following and is perpetually second fiddle in our home state? Is our regular season success owed to coaches like Keady and Painter.. or is our regular season success a Purdue birthright and the postseason shortcomings attributable to those coaches? I am not smart enough to know the answer to those questions, and they will continue to be debated vigorously here any everywhere Purdue fans gather. But how the AD feels about that question is how you will see him compensated.
 

Wolegib

All-American
May 23, 2013
9,047
5,252
113
I doubt if Painter did leave Purdue that his new school would be any more successful than Purdue is now. If Louisville hired Painter, he’s not going to change his style of coaching , recruiting, defense or game calling! Louisville fans used to run and gun and AAU style of basketball will be deeply disappointed! Just because a previous school used a zone defense doesn’t mean Painter will. Painter doesn’t recruit top 50 prospects very much and I doubt he would change if he were to coach somewhere else. I could see a 20 win season and a sweet 16 and nothing more.

it would be interesting to see what type of coach Purdue would hire to replace Painter. Would they go for a dramatic change in style? Or would they go for more of the same? I highly doubt Painter’s successor would be as successful as Painter is.

as for leaving, I highly doubt Painter will be leaving anytime soon. So rather than thinking of this money as an enticement to stay, think of it as a normal longevity boost in his pay
 

boilerball2021

Redshirt Freshman
Gold Member
Jul 29, 2021
1,351
821
113
Trying to dominate thru Edey when you know he has ball security issues and is going to get triple teamed. It was like watching a car wreck in slow motion...
So you don’t think Purdue should have used their size advantage? Did you watch us against the same level teams in preseason when that strategy lead to all blow outs? Edey is the most efficient player in the country.
 

boilerball2021

Redshirt Freshman
Gold Member
Jul 29, 2021
1,351
821
113
Here we go again.......Are you the type of Purdue fan who's happy with finishing in the top 4 of the B10 and making the tourney, anything else is gravy.
As for "who would Purdue get better than Painter?"
Give me the budget and I'll give you the candidates.
Aren’t you the big Shaka Smart guy?

$3.5 million is your budget.
 

Wolegib

All-American
May 23, 2013
9,047
5,252
113
Painter is painter! He’s not going to change, even if he changes schools! By now, you know what you are getting
 

bonefish1

All-American
Oct 4, 2004
14,007
12,905
113
Painter definitely has a better resume than Scheyer at Duke. Duke hired him due to legacy only. I think Nova would hire him in a heartbeat.
Based on what? Longevity? Scheyer played for and coached under one of the best of all time. He's been brought up to believe that the goal isn't to make the tourney, but to make the FF and compete for NCs on a regular basis. That's the culture Coach K created at Duke. Can Scheyer sustain it? We'll see. If Painter were to take over for Coach K instead of Scheyer, I'm not convinced Painter would maintain that success either.
 

Dryfly88

Junior
Jul 9, 2015
2,141
2,229
113
What an ignorant thing to say.
I won't say it's the lamest excuse, but it is not a very important one. If that were the case San Diego State would have the best recruiting classes every year and Kansas would suck every year. Location is so overrated in fans minds. These top recruits aren't planning on staying there more than a year, 2 maybe. They care about the coach and playing on the big stage. Doesn't matter where the school is.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bonefish1

bonefish1

All-American
Oct 4, 2004
14,007
12,905
113
So you don’t think Purdue should have used their size advantage? Did you watch us against the same level teams in preseason when that strategy lead to all blow outs? Edey is the most efficient player in the country.
Purdue has pretty much had a size advantage at the 5 for over 10 years now, going back to AJ Hammons. It's hasn't translated into tourney success. Guards are the key to winning in the tourney, not 7 foot low post players.
 

bonefish1

All-American
Oct 4, 2004
14,007
12,905
113
He could have had the Louisville, Arizona, and UCLA jobs if he wanted them.
The only solid "Rumor" I recall is the Missouri job about 12 years ago. Can you provide any sources/references where he was tied to the Lvill, zona or UCLA jobs?
 

bonefish1

All-American
Oct 4, 2004
14,007
12,905
113
I won't say it's the lamest excuse, but it is not a very important one. If that were the case San Diego State would have the best recruiting classes every year and Kansas would suck every year. Location is so overrated in fans minds. These top recruits aren't planning on staying there more than a year, 2 maybe. They care about the coach and playing on the big stage. Doesn't matter where the school is.
I've made that point several times with the apologists that think it's difficult to recruit to Purdue because it's in the corn fields of IN.
If location mattered, no one would every go to Kansas, MSU, Syracuse, etc, etc. They'd all be wanting to attend Miami and Hawaii.
 

mathboy

All-American
Feb 4, 2004
10,438
10,134
113
Michigan
I've made that point several times with the apologists that think it's difficult to recruit to Purdue because it's in the corn fields of IN.
If location mattered, no one would every go to Kansas, MSU, Syracuse, etc, etc. They'd all be wanting to attend Miami and Hawaii.
Your argument is based on location being the only reason to attend a university. You have used this argument before and we all know how stubborn you are regarding your unfounded opinions. Your whole argument falls apart when other factors are introduced, like coaching philosophy, relationships to the staff, the teams composition, availability of playing time, and campus night life. (Many other things as well). Location is a factor, and as much as I like Purdue, it’s location and night life are not the most attractive. Recruit decisions are complex and not dependent on any single factor. However things like location do play a part in the process.
 

boilerball2021

Redshirt Freshman
Gold Member
Jul 29, 2021
1,351
821
113
I won't say it's the lamest excuse, but it is not a very important one. If that were the case San Diego State would have the best recruiting classes every year and Kansas would suck every year. Location is so overrated in fans minds. These top recruits aren't planning on staying there more than a year, 2 maybe. They care about the coach and playing on the big stage. Doesn't matter where the school is.
Just going to overlook the fact that they aren’t in a P5 conference? I didn’t say location was the only thing, but it is a relevant portion of the recruiting process.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Poprudy

boilerball2021

Redshirt Freshman
Gold Member
Jul 29, 2021
1,351
821
113
Purdue has pretty much had a size advantage at the 5 for over 10 years now, going back to AJ Hammons. It's hasn't translated into tourney success. Guards are the key to winning in the tourney, not 7 foot low post players.
Name the coaches with more tournament wins over the last 16 years.
 

bonefish1

All-American
Oct 4, 2004
14,007
12,905
113
Your argument is based on location being the only reason to attend a university. You have used this argument before and we all know how stubborn you are regarding your unfounded opinions. Your whole argument falls apart when other factors are introduced, like coaching philosophy, relationships to the staff, the teams composition, availability of playing time, and campus night life. (Many other things as well). Location is a factor, and as much as I like Purdue, it’s location and night life are not the most attractive. Recruit decisions are complex and not dependent on any single factor. However things like location do play a part in the process.
Location is such a small factor, it's not even in the equation. The other things you mention: coaching, style, exposure, facilities, etc, are 99% of the decision. Location and night life have nothing to do with the decision of a big time athlete.
Does location help or hurt schools like MSU, ND, UK, IL, Cuse, OSU?
Why doesn't Miami dominate in Bball and Fball since, well, it's Miami? Who wouldn't want to go there? Same for UCLA or St. Johns or hell, what about Northwestern?
 

bonefish1

All-American
Oct 4, 2004
14,007
12,905
113
Just going to overlook the fact that they aren’t in a P5 conference? I didn’t say location was the only thing, but it is a relevant portion of the recruiting process.
How relevant? If a recruit had the opportunity to go to MSU, Purdue or Miami, why would they ever go to MSU or Purdue?
 

boilerball2021

Redshirt Freshman
Gold Member
Jul 29, 2021
1,351
821
113
The only solid "Rumor" I recall is the Missouri job about 12 years ago. Can you provide any sources/references where he was tied to the Lvill, zona or UCLA jobs?
It was all over Twitter and the boards at the time their schools had openings. You can find it.

To Painter’s credit he said he wasn’t interested and didn’t hold Purdue hostage to pay him more like most would do.

Still waiting on that list of coaches that would be upgrades with a $3.5 million budget.
 

boilerball2021

Redshirt Freshman
Gold Member
Jul 29, 2021
1,351
821
113
How relevant? If a recruit had the opportunity to go to MSU, Purdue or Miami, why would they ever go to MSU or Purdue?
Because there are other factors at play too? Have you ever wondered why IU recruits at a high level regardless of who their coach is?
 

bonefish1

All-American
Oct 4, 2004
14,007
12,905
113
Name the coaches with more tournament wins over the last 16 years.
Here we go again. Painter is about .500 in his Purdue career in the tourney. I believe he's only beaten 1 higher seeded team (and I don't know if he's ever beaten any team seeded more than one spot higher). He's been beaten by double digit seeds in 3 of the last 4 tournies. He's 1-6 in Sweet 16 games.
Name the B10 schools who haven't been to the FF since Purdue was in 1980. (I'll give you a hint, none of them are considered basketball schools like Purdue is).
 

bonefish1

All-American
Oct 4, 2004
14,007
12,905
113
Because there are other factors at play too? Have you ever wondered why IU recruits at a high level regardless of who their coach is?
You think it's because of location? The rolling hills of Bloomington and hanging with the hippies in Dunn meadow?
 

boilerball2021

Redshirt Freshman
Gold Member
Jul 29, 2021
1,351
821
113
Here we go again. Painter is about .500 in his Purdue career in the tourney. I believe he's only beaten 1 higher seeded team (and I don't know if he's ever beaten any team seeded more than one spot higher). He's been beaten by double digit seeds in 3 of the last 4 tournies. He's 1-6 in Sweet 16 games.
Name the B10 schools who haven't been to the FF since Purdue was in 1980. (I'll give you a hint, none of them are considered basketball schools like Purdue is).
Name the coaches with more tournament wins over the last 16 years.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mathboy