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CMP Salary Increases? Should Be a Final 4 Bonus...

I haven’t seen anyone argue that he’s a great recruiter. I think he gets more out of his guys than just about every coach out there though. That’s how he can have a top 15 resume without having top 15 talent.

Some coaches (IU for the last few decades) have had top 15 talent and not even close to top 15 results. I will take the great coaching over great recruiting every single time. Especially now that recruiting is based on NIL.
Welcome back from your hiatus. Successful coaching consists of Recruiting, Teaching, Developing successful game plans and recognizing when to adjust in game………
 
I haven’t seen anyone argue that he’s a great recruiter. I think he gets more out of his guys than just about every coach out there though. That’s how he can have a top 15 resume without having top 15 talent.

Some coaches (IU for the last few decades) have had top 15 talent and not even close to top 15 results. I will take the great coaching over great recruiting every single time. Especially now that recruiting is based on NIL.
Welcome back so quickly. :D

I don't think anyone disputes what Painter gets out of his players. The critique is that he hasn't leveraged that into top 15 or even top 25 recruiting. And not taking anything away from his accomplishments. But his resume is there partly because of the length of time he's been at one school. He wasn't exactly lighting things on fire from 2012 thru 2015 (recruiting was horrible for about a 5 year period).
 
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Welcome back from your hiatus. Successful coaching consists of Recruiting, Teaching, Developing successful game plans and recognizing when to adjust in game………
Welcome back so quickly. :D

I don't think anyone disputes what Painter gets out of his players. The critique is that he hasn't leveraged that into top 15 or even top 25 recruiting. And not taking anything away from his accomplishments. But his resume is there partly because of the length of time he's been at one school. He wasn't exactly lighting things on fire from 2012 thru 2015 (recruiting was horrible for about a 5 year period).
I mean if you guys and the rest of the Painter Hater’s Club members are going to keep @ me, I’m going to eventually respond. I was cool with just moving on.

The only thing that matters in coaching is results. We may be able to replace Painter with a better recruiter (not likely), but it would be very tough to replace him with a better coach. I don’t care what the recruiting classes look like as long as we win, and we do that a lot with Painter.

Bringing up 2012-2015 is actually pretty funny. Painter started chasing the types of players you want here and everything completely fell apart. I will take the PJ Thompson’s of the world over the Ronnie Johnson’s of the world every single time.

Look at all the talent Cuanzo Martin has had at all of his other stops. Then look at how poorly he did at all of those stops.
 
I mean if you guys and the rest of the Painter Hater’s Club members are going to keep @ me, I’m going to eventually respond. I was cool with just moving on.

The only thing that matters in coaching is results. We may be able to replace Painter with a better recruiter (not likely), but it would be very tough to replace him with a better coach. I don’t care what the recruiting classes look like as long as we win, and we do that a lot with Painter.

Bringing up 2012-2015 is actually pretty funny. Painter started chasing the types of players you want here and everything completely fell apart. I will take the PJ Thompson’s of the world over the Ronnie Johnson’s of the world every single time.

Look at all the talent Cuanzo Martin has had at all of his other stops. Then look at how poorly he did at all of those stops.

Again, you keep calling me a Painter hater and say that I want him fired. That's become your go to response to anything I say regardless of the fact I've said numerous times I want him at Purdue, but I don't agree he's a top 10 or 15 coach. What's so hard to understand about that?

What I do want from Painter is him to leverage his success into better recruiting. So WTF does Ronnie Johnson have to do with better recruiting??? And what does Counzo Martin have to do with anything?? I never said I wanted Ronnie Johnson at Purdue. And I never said I wanted Counzo to replace Painter.

Goodness sakes. You must be Purdue85 with a new screen name...
 
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Again, you keep calling me a Painter hater and say that I want him fired. That's become your go to response to anything I say regardless of the fact I've said numerous times I want him at Purdue, but I don't agree he's a top 10 or 15 coach. What's so hard to understand about that?

What I do want from Painter is him to leverage his success into better recruiting. So WTF does Ronnie Johnson have to do with better recruiting??? And what does Counzo Martin have to do with anything?? I never said I wanted Ronnie Johnson at Purdue. And I never said I wanted Counzo to replace Painter.

Goodness sakes. You must be Purdue85 with a new screen name...
Your posts say otherwise. If you wanted Painter at Purdue, you wouldn’t be on here constantly bashing him. Winning a championship is the only thing that could POTENTIALLY help Painter land higher caliber recruits, and with NIL even that would make it unlikely.

Ronnie Johnson was a top 80 recruit. If you don’t want the Ronnie Johnson types, then who do you want? Martin has landed 5* players everywhere he’s been. If that isn’t the type of recruiting you want from Painter then what exactly do you want?

No idea who Purdue85 is, but if you didn’t like he or she, then there’s a good chance I would have liked them.
 
Your posts say otherwise. If you wanted Painter at Purdue, you wouldn’t be on here constantly bashing him. Winning a championship is the only thing that could POTENTIALLY help Painter land higher caliber recruits, and with NIL even that would make it unlikely.

Ronnie Johnson was a top 80 recruit. If you don’t want the Ronnie Johnson types, then who do you want? Martin has landed 5* players everywhere he’s been. If that isn’t the type of recruiting you want from Painter then what exactly do you want?

No idea who Purdue85 is, but if you didn’t like he or she, then there’s a good chance I would have liked them.

So, let me get this straight. Saying Painter is not a top 10 to 15 coach is "bashing" him? Saying that he had a horrible period of recruiting is "bashing" him? Just want to make sure I understand what "bashing" means.

Secondly, what you're suggesting is that the ONLY way Painter improves his recruiting over where he is now is for him to win a national championship? Is that what you're suggesting? If it is, you've lost your mind.

Thirdly, what does Ronnie Johnson have to do with wanting top recruits? Are you suggesting that because I want top recruits, that all of them are going to be like Ronnie Johnson? What kind of logic is that?
 
So, let me get this straight. Saying Painter is not a top 10 to 15 coach is "bashing" him? Saying that he had a horrible period of recruiting is "bashing" him? Just want to make sure I understand what "bashing" means.

Secondly, what you're suggesting is that the ONLY way Painter improves his recruiting over where he is now is for him to win a national championship? Is that what you're suggesting? If it is, you've lost your mind.

Thirdly, what does Ronnie Johnson have to do with wanting top recruits? Are you suggesting that because I want top recruits, that all of them are going to be like Ronnie Johnson? What kind of logic is that?
This is the only thread you’ve been critical of Painter in? It seems most of the time you post here it’s being negative about something, and it’s normally about Painter.

How else do you propose he improve his recruiting?

One of Painter’s better recruiting classes on paper (Ronnie’s class) lead to the dark years. Painter learned from that and will now only take guys that fit his program. He’s been very successful since making that change.
 
This is the only thread you’ve been critical of Painter in? It seems most of the time you post here it’s being negative about something, and it’s normally about Painter.

How else do you propose he improve his recruiting?

One of Painter’s better recruiting classes on paper (Ronnie’s class) lead to the dark years. Painter learned from that and will now only take guys that fit his program. He’s been very successful since making that change.

My criticism of Painter hasn't been "bashing" him, if that's what you're suggesting. I've never stated that I wanted Painter fired. I've not liked some of his adjustments and game plans. And his recruiting has been average at best. But I like how he manages his teams. And I like how he represents Purdue. I actually have a photo of him and myself hanging in my office at home. If you consider that "bashing", have at it. I'm not gonna sit here and let someone pump sunshine up my @ass.

With regard to recruiting, Painter's first class was ranked 5th in the nation. Those were the Baby Boilers. Yeah, they were a bunch of head cases (eyeroll). He never succeeded in getting another top 10 or 15 class after that. And he's never succeeded in getting a top 25 class since Ronnie Johnson's. And that's been the problem. You can be the best "coach" in the world. But you're not going to win and have sustained success without recruiting. And Painter's not had sustained recruiting success. Any objective analyst can see that.

I'm not a coach, so it's not up to me to figure out how Painter improves his recruiting. That's one of the reasons he's paid in excess of $3.5MM per year.
 
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My criticism of Painter hasn't been "bashing" him, if that's what you're suggesting. I've never stated that I wanted Painter fired. I've not liked some of his adjustments and game plans. And his recruiting has been average at best. But I like how he manages his teams. And I like how he represents Purdue. I actually have a photo of him and myself hanging in my office at home. If you consider that "bashing", have at it. I'm not gonna sit here and let someone pump sunshine up my @ass.

With regard to recruiting, Painter's first class was ranked 5th in the nation. Those were the Baby Boilers. Yeah, they were a bunch of head cases (eyeroll). He never succeeded in getting another top 10 or 15 class after that. And he's never succeeded in getting a top 25 class since Ronnie Johnson's. And that's been the problem. You can be the best "coach" in the world. But you're not going to win and have sustained success without recruiting. And Painter's not had sustained recruiting success. Any objective analyst can see that.

I'm not a coach, so it's not up to me to figure out how Painter improves his recruiting. That's one of the reasons he's paid in excess of $3.5MM per year.
The Baby Boilers were a stars aligning scenario. All from Indiana and when IU was going through a coaching change.

He doesn’t need top 10-15 recruiting classes to have sustained success. He’s made the Sweet 16 in 4 of the last 5 tournaments. He was a rebound away from the Final 4 (and potentially a national championship) just two tournaments ago. He’s going to be here for as long as he wants. He isn’t going to suddenly start landing top 15 recruiting classes, and his classes may even get worse with NIL.

He doesn’t have anything to figure out in recruiting. He’s getting the guys he wants that fit his system. Get used to it.
 
The Baby Boilers were a stars aligning scenario. All from Indiana and when IU was going through a coaching change.

He doesn’t need top 10-15 recruiting classes to have sustained success. He’s made the Sweet 16 in 4 of the last 5 tournaments. He was a rebound away from the Final 4 (and potentially a national championship) just two tournaments ago. He’s going to be here for as long as he wants. He isn’t going to suddenly start landing top 15 recruiting classes, and his classes may even get worse with NIL.

He doesn’t have anything to figure out in recruiting. He’s getting the guys he wants that fit his system. Get used to it.
Thanks for the lecture on what I should expect. Sounds like you're all in on lower expectations...
 
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I’m for continuing to compete for Big Ten Championships and position ourselves for deep runs in the tournament.
Agree but he needs to start getting to F4.. Just look at the B1G’s who have reached the F4 since 1980. That’s where I’m coming from. There’s a disconnect between all the B1G championships during this time frame while other B1G’s got to the F4 and some won it all
 
Agree but he needs to start getting to F4.. Just look at the B1G’s who have reached the F4 since 1980. That’s where I’m coming from. There’s a disconnect between all the B1G championships during this time frame while other B1G’s got to the F4 and some won it all
No Big Ten national Champs in the last 22 years. We were a rebound away from the Final 4 3 years ago.
 
I haven’t seen anyone argue that he’s a great recruiter. I think he gets more out of his guys than just about every coach out there though. That’s how he can have a top 15 resume without having top 15 talent.

Some coaches (IU for the last few decades) have had top 15 talent and not even close to top 15 results. I will take the great coaching over great recruiting every single time. Especially now that recruiting is based on NIL.
"I will take the great coaching over great recruiting every single time."

Not me. You see the limits of your so called "great coaching" and average recruiting. No FF in 43 years. Give me great recruiting all day. Eventually premier talent will break through and will be much more fun to watch along the way.
 
"I will take the great coaching over great recruiting every single time."

Not me. You see the limits of your so called "great coaching" and average recruiting. No FF in 43 years. Give me great recruiting all day. Eventually premier talent will break through and will be much more fun to watch along the way.
How has that worked out for places like IU over the last few decades? Recruiting is now more about NIL than anything. We won’t be a premier NIL school. I’ll take the great coaching.
 
I haven’t seen anyone argue that he’s a great recruiter. I think he gets more out of his guys than just about every coach out there though. That’s how he can have a top 15 resume without having top 15 talent.

Some coaches (IU for the last few decades) have had top 15 talent and not even close to top 15 results. I will take the great coaching over great recruiting every single time. Especially now that recruiting is based on NIL.
What I've argued for years, is that Purdue should have spent the money to find the best recruiter in the business and combine him with Painter so he got better talent that he could coach up. I'm still not overly enamored with his coaching (playing through the low post. Refusing to do anything but man/man D. Sometimes poor in game adjustments, especially in the tourney vs inferior opponents) but he does win a lot of regular season games.
 
What I've argued for years, is that Purdue should have spent the money to find the best recruiter in the business and combine him with Painter so he got better talent that he could coach up. I'm still not overly enamored with his coaching (playing through the low post. Refusing to do anything but man/man D. Sometimes poor in game adjustments, especially in the tourney vs inferior opponents) but he does win a lot of regular season games.
Have you ever stopped to wonder what makes the “best recruiter in the business” the best recruiter in the business?

Who in your opinion is the best recruiter in the business?
 
This is the only thread you’ve been critical of Painter in? It seems most of the time you post here it’s being negative about something, and it’s normally about Painter.

How else do you propose he improve his recruiting?

One of Painter’s better recruiting classes on paper (Ronnie’s class) lead to the dark years. Painter learned from that and will now only take guys that fit his program. He’s been very successful since making that change.
Are we not allowed to be critical of Painter?

Let me ask you a question: We know you think Painter is a great coach. But, what do you think he does poorly or what is his deficiency as a head coach?

And as far a improving recruiting, it's all about a coaches ability to sell an opportunity.
And yes, you recruit the absolute highest caliber/rated player you can, Every. Single. Time. Talent will win out.
 
Have you ever stopped to wonder what makes the “best recruiter in the business” the best recruiter in the business?

Who in your opinion is the best recruiter in the business?
The best recruiter in the business is the guy who's proven he can close the deal with highly rated recruits consistently.
While ultimately it's the HC who has to convince the player to sign, a great recruiter builds the relationship, can get the kid to the 1 yard line, the HC just needs to push him into the endzone .
 
Are we not allowed to be critical of Painter?

Let me ask you a question: We know you think Painter is a great coach. But, what do you think he does poorly or what is his deficiency as a head coach?

And as far a improving recruiting, it's all about a coaches ability to sell an opportunity.
And yes, you recruit the absolute highest caliber/rated player you can, Every. Single. Time. Talent will win out.
1. It’s really more that you and the others in the Painter Haters Club are ONLY critical of Painter.

2. I think he could sometimes make better in game adjustments. 95% of the time his initial game plan is spot on, but when it’s not working, he could be better at fixing it.

3. Has talent won out for IU?
 
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The best recruiter in the business is the guy who's proven he can close the deal with highly rated recruits consistently.
While ultimately it's the HC who has to convince the player to sign, a great recruiter builds the relationship, can get the kid to the 1 yard line, the HC just needs to push him into the endzone .
So who is that person?
 
The best recruiter in the business is the guy who's proven he can close the deal with highly rated recruits consistently.
While ultimately it's the HC who has to convince the player to sign, a great recruiter builds the relationship, can get the kid to the 1 yard line, the HC just needs to push him into the endzone .
Is that how Self “closed the deal” with Josh Jackson ?

Is that how Coach K “closed the deal” with Zion ?

Is that how Archie “closed the deal” with Clangford?
 
Is that how Self “closed the deal” with Josh Jackson ?

Is that how Coach K “closed the deal” with Zion ?

Is that how Archie “closed the deal” with Clangford?
Recruiting is sometimes a dirty, slimey, business. I think you gotta do what you gotta do, as long as it's legal.
 
I’m sure you and the rest of the PHC would just complain that he didn’t get to a national championship. Some people just love to bitch.

Did you put up a banner in your house for that "rebound away from a Final Four" accomplishment?

BTW, I was pretty stoked about Purdue's performance in that tournament. But I'm not gonna sit there and talk myself into a narrative about how they "almost made it to a Final Four and Championship"...
 
Did you put up a banner in your house for that "rebound away from a Final Four" accomplishment?

BTW, I was pretty stoked about Purdue's performance in that tournament. But I'm not gonna sit there and talk myself into a narrative about how they "almost made it to a Final Four and Championship"...
Can you talk yourself into the narrative that it was proof Painter’s system and current level of recruiting could lead to a final 4 and National Championship?
 
Can you talk yourself into the narrative that it was proof Painter’s system and current level of recruiting could lead to a final 4 and National Championship?
Just the opposite. It showed that it took a once in a lifetime performance from an elite guard to even come that close. Elite guards are the opposite of Painter's/Keady's system. I've seen 3 in 35 years.
 
Can you talk yourself into the narrative that it was proof Painter’s system and current level of recruiting could lead to a final 4 and National Championship?
Carsen played out of his mind during that stretch. It really had nothing to do with "Painter's system". "Painter's system" never called for a guard to shoot 30+ times a game. I give credit to Painter for developing Carsen and allowing he and Ivey to do what they did. But to call it his system is a bit laughable...
 
Can you talk yourself into the narrative that it was proof Painter’s system and current level of recruiting could lead to a final 4 and National Championship?
Barely then, and, definitely not now. Not often that you are going to win a conference championship and make a tournament run without a single NBA guy...never mind, starting a walk-on.

The system was not an issue there, or, largely in general (despite some worthy questions about some things)...but, and someone else already pointed to it...that team was not post-centric, and, guards win in March...elite guards win big in March more often than not. What happened with that team was atypical...letting a guard do pretty much whatever he wanted is definitely not part of Painter's system.

And...I would contend that team was not as talented as others that have failed in March...not even by a long shot.
 
So you think CMP should use the same methods those 3 schools used to land those players?
Were they legal? If so, yes.

If you're talking about speculation, I don't deal with that. Because if it wasn't legal, those schools would have received punishment. Not sure any of them did.
 
Barely then, and, definitely not now. Not often that you are going to win a conference championship and make a tournament run without a single NBA guy...never mind, starting a walk-on.

The system was not an issue there, or, largely in general (despite some worthy questions about some things)...but, and someone else already pointed to it...that team was not post-centric, and, guards win in March...elite guards win big in March more often than not. What happened with that team was atypical...letting a guard do pretty much whatever he wanted is definitely not part of Painter's system.

And...I would contend that team was not as talented as others that have failed in March...not even by a long shot.

^^^This...
 
So you think CMP should use the same methods those 3 schools used to land those players?

We can sit here and talk about how slimy those coaches were and what they did. But not any of them were held accountable for their alleged actions and the programs have benefited from them. I don't think you'll find many Kansas or Duke fans who are lamenting the recruiting practices of their programs...
 
Just the opposite. It showed that it took a once in a lifetime performance from an elite guard to even come that close. Elite guards are the opposite of Painter's/Keady's system. I've seen 3 in 35 years.
How many have you seen in the last 3 years? Colvin looks to be another.
 
Carsen played out of his mind during that stretch. It really had nothing to do with "Painter's system". "Painter's system" never called for a guard to shoot 30+ times a game. I give credit to Painter for developing Carsen and allowing he and Ivey to do what they did. But to call it his system is a bit laughable...
Oh, so even when Purdue teams succeed it has nothing to do with Painter. Got it. This is why you are a member of the PHC.

Side Note: Carsen shot 30+ times once in his career.
 
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How many have you seen in the last 3 years? Colvin looks to be another.
Twice...one, solely because he is a legacy, and, the other because he wanted to play near home.

How many have you seen in 20 years that did not have some unique circumstance such as above that allowed for it?
 
Barely then, and, definitely not now. Not often that you are going to win a conference championship and make a tournament run without a single NBA guy...never mind, starting a walk-on.

The system was not an issue there, or, largely in general (despite some worthy questions about some things)...but, and someone else already pointed to it...that team was not post-centric, and, guards win in March...elite guards win big in March more often than not. What happened with that team was atypical...letting a guard do pretty much whatever he wanted is definitely not part of Painter's system.

And...I would contend that team was not as talented as others that have failed in March...not even by a long shot.
That team wasn’t as talented, but they fit well in the system Painter developed for that year. You guys constantly talk about Painter not being willing to adapt, and that couldn’t be further from the truth. He adapts his system to fit whatever personnel he has on a given team.

He basically let Ivey do whatever he wanted too. We’ve now had 2 elite guards over the last 3 years. We have a potential for another in our next class.
 
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