Carson on Muslims as President

[qazplm]

"I would not advocate that we put a Muslim in charge of this nation. I absolutely would not agree with that," Carson told NBC's "Meet the Press."

The remarks by Carson, who is near the top of opinion polls for the crowded field of Republican candidates, followed a controversy that erupted when front-runner Donald Trump declined to challenge anti-Muslim comments made by a supporter on Friday.

Carson said he thought a U.S. president's faith should be "consistent with the Constitution."

 

[gr8indoorsman]

If we could find a Muslim who wanted to run a secular state, I'd have no issue with it. Nothing to see here, Carson's not viable.

Besides, we have had a Muslim as president for six years and the country's gone to hell and taken Purdue football with it. Thanks Obama. Duh.

 

[ecouch]

"I would not advocate that we put a Muslim in charge of this nation. I absolutely would not agree with that," Carson told NBC's "Meet the Press."

The remarks by Carson, who is near the top of opinion polls for the crowded field of Republican candidates, followed a controversy that erupted when front-runner Donald Trump declined to challenge anti-Muslim comments made by a supporter on Friday.

Carson said he thought a U.S. president's faith should be "consistent with the Constitution."

I agree with him.

Muslims will believe anything, I don't want a Muslim leader.

Carson does not realize he looks like ISIS.

 

[threeeputtt]

• John Adams wrote Jefferson a letter advising that Islam’s founder and prophet was “a military fanatic.” In another writing, he condemned Islamic law as “contemptible.”
  

His son and future president, John Quincy Adams, went further, arguing that the essence of Islam is “violence and lust: to exalt the brutal over the spiritual part of human nature.” He suggested the Quran’s commands to fight and conquer other lands “in the cause of Allah” were at odds with democracy, peace and the Judeo-Christian ethic on which America was founded.

 

[qazplm]

• John Adams wrote Jefferson a letter advising that Islam’s founder and prophet was “a military fanatic.” In another writing, he condemned Islamic law as “contemptible.”

His son and future president, John Quincy Adams, went further, arguing that the essence of Islam is “violence and lust: to exalt the brutal over the spiritual part of human nature.” He suggested the Quran’s commands to fight and conquer other lands “in the cause of Allah” were at odds with democracy, peace and the Judeo-Christian ethic on which America was founded.

Of course, Jefferson would have thought an African American wasn't qualified to be President...I would be surprised if JQ thought any differently. Different times, different prejudices/beliefs, one would hope we've gotten a little more enlightened since then.

 

[BoilerMadness]

Of course, Jefferson would have thought an African American wasn't qualified to be President...I would be surprised if JQ thought any differently. Different times, different prejudices/beliefs, one would hope we've gotten a little more enlightened since then.

Typical, threeputt's comments were about Islam and the requirements of the Koran, and you twist that into racism. In your twisted mind everyone, but you, is racist. Yet, you play the race card at every opportunity. Hmmmm???

 

[qazplm]

Typical, threeputt's comments were about Islam and the requirements of the Koran, and you twist that into racism. In your twisted mind everyone, but you, is racist. Yet, you play the race card at every opportunity. Hmmmm???

lol yes, totally out of bounds to consider a slave owner as a racist. Totally twisted. Ya got me.
His comments were about prejudices way back when against Muslims. My comment was that there were a lot of prejudices way back when, but hopefully we've advanced some since then.

Your "take" is as idiotic and simple minded as most of your takes.

 

[qazplm]

More Carson bits of wisdom:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczy...y-tale-theory-of-evolution-encoura#.nc0Noprrb

Short version:

Satan is responsible for the theory of evolution, and Ben Carson doesn't remotely understand how entropy works.

 

[Purdue97]

"I would not advocate that we put a Muslim in charge of this nation. I absolutely would not agree with that," Carson told NBC's "Meet the Press."

The remarks by Carson, who is near the top of opinion polls for the crowded field of Republican candidates, followed a controversy that erupted when front-runner Donald Trump declined to challenge anti-Muslim comments made by a supporter on Friday.

Carson said he thought a U.S. president's faith should be "consistent with the Constitution."

I agree with him but his comments the next day summed up the situation and beliefs better.

The issue with Islam, is it requires complete devotion to Allah and the koran. That is why as you have pointed out before that getting involved in religous wars is risky and we need to let them figure it out. Also why they are stuck in midages.

Anyway, if one is not a Muslim one is a heretic and an Infidel. I do not think it is possible for one to be a Muslim and the President of the United States. I think there are pretty obvious conflicts between them. Them being practicing Islam and 1) following the Constitution/Laws of this country and 2)doing what is the best interest of the United States.

Basically what he said or what I believe he meant is that any Muslim that would be President, if he did his job right, would be considered a heretic and/or infidel-therefore not a true Muslim.

As Gr8 said, if there was a Muslim that could run a secular state there is no issue. Issue is that person is not a Muslim.

 

[qazplm]

I agree with him but his comments the next day summed up the situation and beliefs better.

The issue with Islam, is it requires complete devotion to Allah and the koran. That is why as you have pointed out before that getting involved in religous wars is risky and we need to let them figure it out. Also why they are stuck in midages.

Anyway, if one is not a Muslim one is a heretic and an Infidel. I do not think it is possible for one to be a Muslim and the President of the United States. I think there are pretty obvious conflicts between them. Them being practicing Islam and 1) following the Constitution/Laws of this country and 2)doing what is the best interest of the United States.

Basically what he said or what I believe he meant is that any Muslim that would be President, if he did his job right, would be considered a heretic and/or infidel-therefore not a true Muslim.

As Gr8 said, if there was a Muslim that could run a secular state there is no issue. Issue is that person is not a Muslim.

Baloney. Muslim does not require "complete devotion to Allah and the Koran" anymore than Christianity requires it to the Bible and Jesus. Certainly not in the silly way you are characterizing it. If you truly believe that, then no Muslim should be in the military because of the "pretty obvious conflicts between...following the Constitution/Laws of this country and doing what is in the best interest of the United States."

I generally gave you about 20 percent more credit than some of the other ridiculous folks on here in the past...this ridiculous post pretty much erases that.

 

[Purdue97]

Baloney. Muslim does not require "complete devotion to Allah and the Koran" anymore than Christianity requires it to the Bible and Jesus. Certainly not in the silly way you are characterizing it. If you truly believe that, then no Muslim should be in the military because of the "pretty obvious conflicts between...following the Constitution/Laws of this country and doing what is in the best interest of the United States."

I generally gave you about 20 percent more credit than some of the other ridiculous folks on here in the past...this ridiculous post pretty much erases that.

That is the whole point though. Those "Muslims" would be considered heretics or Infidels if they are in the US Army(minus that army major DR). And that comes from Imams in both middle east and America. If you do not believe me, go ask or talk to them about it, out of military uniform. Have done that more than once. I am not sure what you completely heard or read about Carson's comments over the two days-but he was really pretty clear in explaining himself after the first day of quotes.

Comparing Islam to Christianity or even JFK with Roman Catholicism is a bit off. Those religions are just a tad more lenient than Islam. Similar a few thousand years ago in their intolerance yes-not now.

And for the record, I think Ben Carson is pretty nice individual, pretty cool. Like his demeanor. Very smart medicine guy. That said, not voting for him in primary, likely not in GE either. Pretty much like Rubio, Fiorina, and Biden if he runs.

 

[tantalum]

Baloney. Muslim does not require "complete devotion to Allah and the Koran" anymore than Christianity requires it to the Bible and Jesus. Certainly not in the silly way you are characterizing it. If you truly believe that, then no Muslim should be in the military because of the "pretty obvious conflicts between...following the Constitution/Laws of this country and doing what is in the best interest of the United States

It sure appears to me that you are very ignorant of Islam and the differences between Islam and Christianity. I am no expert on Islam but I know the new testement pretty well and I am fairly certain I know what I say here to be true. The only law in new testament is to Love God above all and to love your neighbor as yourself. There are lots of specific laws in the Old Testament but it is very specific in the New Testament that they are not meant to be followed literally after the time of Christ. (Some believe a few of them are for New Testament times)In all of the writings of the New Testament it is alway assumed that believers have no political power and did not encourage followers to use force or seek political power. Christian had no real secular power for several hundred years after the New Testament was written. Even then Christians did not seek power it was just that the emperor Constantine became a convert. From then on Christians had the power in Europe and many think that is when a lot of corruption crept in.
The Koran was written when there followers were in political power and were at war. The Koran seems to have been written when its followers were in power or were at war. There are lots of laws that are meant for the state to enforce. The Koran was meant to be followed by the entire state as well as individuals.
There have polls taken of Muslims all over the world and a very significant percentage want Sharia law to be the law of the land. In the US I think near half the Muslim population says they want Sharia law in this country. That is certainly not all Muslims and there are many people that think of themselves as Muslims that are happy with our laws and constitution. I am sure Dr. Carson was talking about someone that had more allegiance to Sharia Law and the Koran than the US constitution. Chistianity and Islam are not the same and it is just ignorant to say they are. Remember that the US Constitution requires the President to take an oath promising to follow and defend the Constitution.
I am confident that up until very recently most Americans would have agreed with Dr. Carson without much question. I still think most people agree with hime outside of the media elite, the ignorant, and the Muslims.

 

[SCBoiler]

It sure appears to me that you are very ignorant of Islam and the differences between Islam and Christianity. I am no expert on Islam but I know the new testement pretty well and I am fairly certain I know what I say here to be true. The only law in new testament is to Love God above all and to love your neighbor as yourself. There are lots of specific laws in the Old Testament but it is very specific in the New Testament that they are not meant to be followed literally after the time of Christ. (Some believe a few of them are for New Testament times)In all of the writings of the New Testament it is alway assumed that believers have no political power and did not encourage followers to use force or seek political power. Christian had no real secular power for several hundred years after the New Testament was written. Even then Christians did not seek power it was just that the emperor Constantine became a convert. From then on Christians had the power in Europe and many think that is when a lot of corruption crept in.
The Koran was written when there followers were in political power and were at war. The Koran seems to have been written when its followers were in power or were at war. There are lots of laws that are meant for the state to enforce. The Koran was meant to be followed by the entire state as well as individuals.
There have polls taken of Muslims all over the world and a very significant percentage want Sharia law to be the law of the land. In the US I think near half the Muslim population says they want Sharia law in this country. That is certainly not all Muslims and there are many people that think of themselves as Muslims that are happy with our laws and constitution. I am sure Dr. Carson was talking about someone that had more allegiance to Sharia Law and the Koran than the US constitution. Chistianity and Islam are not the same and it is just ignorant to say they are. Remember that the US Constitution requires the President to take an oath promising to follow and defend the Constitution.
I am confident that up until very recently most Americans would have agreed with Dr. Carson without much question. I still think most people agree with hime outside of the media elite, the ignorant, and the Muslims.

Very well said, but dont expect qaz to understand. What you have to realize is your xenophobic, racist, islamophobic and whatever else it takes to prove your crazy. All muslims and christians are the same, both have sinned, so they are bad. Muslims are poorer though, so they are more righteous. We need to be more empathetic.

 

[ecouch]

More Carson bits of wisdom:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczy...y-tale-theory-of-evolution-encoura#.nc0Noprrb

Short version:

Satan is responsible for the theory of evolution, and Ben Carson doesn't remotely understand how entropy works.

Meh.

Not as bad as Carly Fioina faking an abortion video to continue her very obvious lie.

If the RNC had any integrity they would be asking for several candidates to step down.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2015/09/carly-fiorinas-super-pac-made-its-own-abortion-video.

The integrity of the party is being dashed against the rocks.

Boehner has it right. F you people, this is what you want, this is what you get. I'm out.

So now the government is going to be shut down, again, by conservatives, because women get birth control pills.

5 stars conservatives. 5 stars.

 

[SCBoiler]

Meh.

Not as bad as Carly Fioina faking an abortion video to continue her very obvious lie.

If the RNC had any integrity they would be asking for several candidates to step down.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2015/09/carly-fiorinas-super-pac-made-its-own-abortion-video.

The integrity of the party is being dashed against the rocks.

Boehner has it right. F you people, this is what you want, this is what you get. I'm out.

So now the government is going to be shut down, again, by conservatives, because women get birth control pills.

5 stars conservatives. 5 stars.

Right, it's all the conservatives fault. Because they don't want the government supporting something they don't believe in, abortion, that's the reason every things gonna go to hell. Remind me, when is it the liberals turn to compromise and give a little to keep the country running? I mean afterall, with the genius of Obamacare, every woman has health insurance that has to pay for birth control pills. So don't give me that it's about birth control pills. Obama, the gracious, already promised em that. I think its more about what some people consider killing a human being and whether or not it should be government sponsored. Don't you? Or are you just spewing hyperbole? And like most conservatives we believe in freedom, so we arent even saying we think it should be illegal (maybe some are, but i said most), just that the government that represents us ALL shouldn't be paying for it. I typed as slowly as I could so hopefully you understand.

 

[qazplm]

It sure appears to me that you are very ignorant of Islam and the differences between Islam and Christianity. I am no expert on Islam but I know the new testement pretty well and I am fairly certain I know what I say here to be true. The only law in new testament is to Love God above all and to love your neighbor as yourself. There are lots of specific laws in the Old Testament but it is very specific in the New Testament that they are not meant to be followed literally after the time of Christ. (Some believe a few of them are for New Testament times)In all of the writings of the New Testament it is alway assumed that believers have no political power and did not encourage followers to use force or seek political power. Christian had no real secular power for several hundred years after the New Testament was written. Even then Christians did not seek power it was just that the emperor Constantine became a convert. From then on Christians had the power in Europe and many think that is when a lot of corruption crept in.
The Koran was written when there followers were in political power and were at war. The Koran seems to have been written when its followers were in power or were at war. There are lots of laws that are meant for the state to enforce. The Koran was meant to be followed by the entire state as well as individuals.
There have polls taken of Muslims all over the world and a very significant percentage want Sharia law to be the law of the land. In the US I think near half the Muslim population says they want Sharia law in this country. That is certainly not all Muslims and there are many people that think of themselves as Muslims that are happy with our laws and constitution. I am sure Dr. Carson was talking about someone that had more allegiance to Sharia Law and the Koran than the US constitution. Chistianity and Islam are not the same and it is just ignorant to say they are. Remember that the US Constitution requires the President to take an oath promising to follow and defend the Constitution.
I am confident that up until very recently most Americans would have agreed with Dr. Carson without much question. I still think most people agree with hime outside of the media elite, the ignorant, and the Muslims.

LMAO, please post the poll that says half of American Muslims want Sharia law to be the law of the land. You pulled that BS from Breibart. And even there there is this bit that kinda seems important:

"When that question was put to the broader U.S. (Muslim) population, the overwhelming majority held that shariah should not displace the U.S. Constitution (86% to 2%)." So even in that BS poll, 86% of American Muslims said the Constitution should reign supreme while 2% did not.

And actually polls show most Americans do no have a problem voting for a Muslim in America as President:

http://www.voanews.com/content/poll-finds-sixty-percent-americans-vote-muslim-president/2974281.html

And that is citing a GALLUP Poll by the way.

It took all of 30 seconds to google that.

 

[qazplm]

That is the whole point though. Those "Muslims" would be considered heretics or Infidels if they are in the US Army(minus that army major DR). And that comes from Imams in both middle east and America. If you do not believe me, go ask or talk to them about it, out of military uniform. Have done that more than once. I am not sure what you completely heard or read about Carson's comments over the two days-but he was really pretty clear in explaining himself after the first day of quotes.

Comparing Islam to Christianity or even JFK with Roman Catholicism is a bit off. Those religions are just a tad more lenient than Islam. Similar a few thousand years ago in their intolerance yes-not now.

And for the record, I think Ben Carson is pretty nice individual, pretty cool. Like his demeanor. Very smart medicine guy. That said, not voting for him in primary, likely not in GE either. Pretty much like Rubio, Fiorina, and Biden if he runs.

Idiotic, there's no other way to characterize this post. I've served with loyal, honorable Muslim officer and enlisted for decades. No one was telling them they were heretics or infidels. They've served in Iraq and Afghanistan with no issues. They work with civilian Imams in America (and overseas). It's an ignorant, idiotic post no better than the rest of the dreck that follows in this thread.

 

[tantalum]

https://www.centerforsecuritypolicy...uslims-shows-thousands-support-shariah-jihad/

There is the link to the poll that shows many Muslims do not want to be subject to US courts but rather Sharia Law courts.
I would challenge you to find the poll that says that a large percentage of Christiana want to be subject to courts that follow Old Testament laws.

 

[qazplm]

https://www.centerforsecuritypolicy...uslims-shows-thousands-support-shariah-jihad/

There is the link to the poll that shows many Muslims do not want to be subject to US courts but rather Sharia Law courts.
I would challenge you to find the poll that says that a large percentage of Christiana want to be subject to courts that follow Old Testament laws.

"half of American Muslims want Sharia law to be the law of the land."

That's what you said, not half of all American Muslims would like to be able to use Muslim courts to adjudicate their own issues. Completely different thing, and you know it. There are plenty of places where there are Jewish courts in America where orthodox disputes are handled in religious courts by agreement of both parties...no difference here. And the bottom line is that in both groups the VAST majority want the Constitution to continue to reign supreme.

 

[tantalum]

After reading the poll more again I would have to say that it is ambiguous. It says that 51% think they should have the option of being governed by Sharia Law. It does not say only if the other party also agrees.
It also says that 25% of the respondents also partly or strongly agree that "Violence against Americans in the United State can be justified as part of Global Jihad". There is no way around that fact that that result is very disturbing.
I am at the point I no longer trust Obama on this issue and I do not trust the main stream media to cover it honestly. IF they do not believe it let them conduct their own poll. If they do not it just confirms the one that I linked to is probably correct.
People you need to honestly look at what is going on! Look at the poll yourself!

 

[Purdue97]

"half of American Muslims want Sharia law to be the law of the land."

That's what you said, not half of all American Muslims would like to be able to use Muslim courts to adjudicate their own issues. Completely different thing, and you know it. There are plenty of places where there are Jewish courts in America where orthodox disputes are handled in religious courts by agreement of both parties...no difference here. And the bottom line is that in both groups the VAST majority want the Constitution to continue to reign supreme.

Hey you were in 187th @Campbell were you not? I was told I knew you-well glad you got out of the Infantry world, you did not really belong or fit in there. Not that that is a bad thing.

Anyway, I am not going to call you an idiot or any other derogatory word. I would however encourage you to read that link again by tantalum You either inferred what you wanted or just posted what you wanted it to say. It said what it said whether you like it or not.

The VAST majority? That was the broader population survey numbers not the polling of Muslims. Nothing to do with Muslims themselves.

 

[qazplm]

Hey you were in 187th @Campbell were you not? I was told I knew you-well glad you got out of the Infantry world, you did not really belong or fit in there. Not that that is a bad thing.

Anyway, I am not going to call you an idiot or any other derogatory word. I would however encourage you to read that link again by tantalum You either inferred what you wanted or just posted what you wanted it to say. It said what it said whether you like it or not.

The VAST majority? That was the broader population survey numbers not the polling of Muslims. Nothing to do with Muslims themselves.

No, I was not ever part of "the Rakkasans." I was in a completely different brigade on literally the other side of the post and it was over 20 years ago. Heck if you DID know me then you'd know about an extremely serious situation that happened to my particularly unit while I was there. So no, you didn't know me, and no there is no reason anyone would think based on my time in a completely different unit as not infantry that I didn't belong there. I was mostly just another guy, and I had good relationships with folks since I was a non-infantry guy who held my own, carried the guidon for the commander for two years, won the Brigade Soldier of the Year board and took second for installation SOTY. (and you'd think you'd have known about one of those things if you knew me). But sure, "I didn't belong of fit in there." Weak ass lame response.

I quoted that survey myself. I even ignored that it's the only survey out there that remotely says anything like that, and it's done by a right-wing organization.

 

[Purdue97]

That serious issue was Barry Winchell or are you talking before that? I was involved in that a bit, but just got a counseling letter out of it.

Never said you did not hold your own-just meant that you had more sense than most the 11 series guys. Trust me, that is not a bad thing. No, if it was not 187th I do not know you but was told you won BSY in 1999. Maybe not.

 

[qazplm]

That serious issue was Barry Winchell or are you talking before that? I was involved in that a bit, but just got a counseling letter out of it.

Never said you did not hold your own-just meant that you had more sense than most the 11 series guys. Trust me, that is not a bad thing. No, if it was not 187th I do not know you but was told you won BSY in 1999. Maybe not.

1999? In 1999 I was in law school, and hadn't been at Campbell for half a decade. So no, you did not know me, and I have no idea who you think you are talking about. And I have no idea who Barry Winchell was, but what I'm talking about involved deaths. And I wasn't an 11b, I was non-combat assigned to an infantry unit. So, again, just stop.

 

[Purdue97]

Barry Winchell was the 11h from 502 that was killed in his sleep for being bisexual.

Big news at the time.

Small world I guess. Another former 92Y that got out, went to law school, Huge Purdue fan, and now JAG. But no this guy was 187

 

[qazplm]

Barry Winchell was the 11h from 502 that was killed in his sleep for being bisexual.

Big news at the time.

Small world I guess. Another former 92Y that got out, went to law school, Huge Purdue fan, and now JAG. But no this guy was 187

I was not, and I was in law school when that guy got killed if it was 99. I was back in school by Fall 96, and I PCS'd from Campbell in the winter of 95.

 

[qazplm]

Barry Winchell was the 11h from 502 that was killed in his sleep for being bisexual.

Big news at the time.

Small world I guess. Another former 92Y that got out, went to law school, Huge Purdue fan, and now JAG. But no this guy was 187

I was not, and I was in law school when that guy got killed if it was 99. I was back in school by Fall 96, and I PCS'd from Campbell in the winter of 95.