But...But...I thought Biden didn't have anything to do with gas prices?

[bonefish1]

Isn't that what the lefties, libs and Dems keep claiming? Isn't that what MSNBC is telling them to say and believe?

That's weird, because this sure seems like Biden is trying to impact gas prices......

Biden Says He Is Considering Seeking a Gas Tax Holiday

With regular gasoline around $5 per gallon, suspending the federal gas tax would provide a measure of relief for consumers, but Congress would need to take action.

www.nytimes.com

(silly libs, Trix are for kids)

 

[TeddyValentineDidNothingWrong]

Are you so stupid as to think that prices set by private corporations are the same thing as tax rates set by the federal government, or are you just being intentionally misleading?

 

[bonefish1]

Are you so stupid as to think that prices set by private corporations are the same thing as tax rates set by the federal government, or are you just being intentionally misleading?

You clearly don't understand how this works.

How do you think the US went from a net exporter of oil to a net importer? Magic?

But again, the Dems keep telling us that Biden can't influence gas prices. Well, apparently he can. Whether that be with tax policy, environmental policy, etc.

 

[Peabodius]

Suspending a tax impacts the cost of taxes. Global gas prices are not affected.

I feel like you are being willfully ignorant, but maybe it’s the real deal?

 

[bonefish1]

Suspending a tax impacts the cost of taxes. Global gas prices are not affected.

I feel like you are being willfully ignorant, but maybe it’s the real deal?

How did the US go from being a net exporter of oil to an importer now relying on places like Saudia Arabia, Venezeuela and Russia for our oil needs?

Did something happen in the US to decrease oil drilling and refining?

 

[TheGunner]

Are you so stupid as to think that prices set by private corporations are the same thing as tax rates set by the federal government, or are you just being intentionally misleading?

Are you so stupid not to recognize that Federal and state taxes are part of gas prices…thus a change in the taxes would change the price of gas to the consumer?

Or stated another way, why are gas prices higher in CA than anywhere else in the US? Oh, gas taxes.

Conservatives, the liberals are going to whine about this because this will impact their climate change agenda

 

[TheGunner]

Suspending a tax impacts the cost of taxes. Global gas prices are not affected.

I feel like you are being willfully ignorant, but maybe it’s the real deal?

The end price/delivered price to the consumer goes down if the taxes go down.

 

[BCfanatic2020]

You clearly don't understand how this works.

How do you think the US went from a net exporter of oil to a net importer? Magic?

But again, the Dems keep telling us that Biden can't influence gas prices. Well, apparently he can. Whether that be with tax policy, environmental policy, etc.

Defense policy…

 

[TeddyValentineDidNothingWrong]

The end price/delivered price to the consumer goes down if the taxes go down.

Ok, you don't know what commodities are. That's ok, there's still time for you to learn.

 

[Peabodius]

How did the US go from being a net exporter of oil to an importer now relying on places like Saudia Arabia, Venezeuela and Russia for our oil needs?

Did something happen in the US to decrease oil drilling and refining?

Not all oil is easy refined into gasoline. We import millions of barrels of oil daily, and have since before I was born. If you think we were ever energy “independent” you are ignorant.

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/images/2021.05.05/main.svg

 

[BCfanatic2020]

Ok, you don't know what commodities are. That's ok, there's still time for you to learn.

Ok so.. let’s talk commodities .. why are we fighting a proxy war with an oil rich nation who is proving they don’t need us as much as Joe Biden thought?

 

[BSIT]

Ok, you don't know what commodities are. That's ok, there's still time for you to learn.

Asking for a friend, how do you lower commodity costs? Hint, I think it’s implementing policies that encourages production not vice versa

 

[TheGunner]

Ok, you don't know what commodities are. That's ok, there's still time for you to learn.

I know what commodities are, but the end consumer doesn’t pay for a commodity or buy gas at the wholesale market price…do they?

Fact is, if taxes were to go down or be eliminated the costs being charged on other products, also goes down, thus reducing inflation.

If the price of gas goes down at the pump due to lower taxes, the prices of a truckload of goods will also drop (assuming the savings is passed on to the consumer). Since CPI is based on the consumer’s price (not the wholesale price or commodity price) it is simple to understand that a lower consumer price for gas will lower the CPI and thus lower inflation…until of course the tax is reinstated, then prices will go back up.

Its simple math really, but it may be over your head.

Once you understand the scenario above, is easy to understand that gas/diesel prices exponentially impact the price of goods at the consumer level.

Thats is why Americans reject the GND, because Democrats fail to lay out a real plan on how to transition from fossil fuels to renewable energy. Democrats fail to understand that fossil fuels are the only way TO transition to renewables without significantly impacting the economy. And if the economy implodes, Americans will reject the climate change agenda.

But AOC and Bernie never took an economics class or fail to implement what they learned into today’s real world.

 

[Crayfish57]

I know what commodities are, but the end consumer doesn’t pay for a commodity or buy gas at the wholesale market price…do they?

Fact is, if taxes were to go down or be eliminated the costs being charged on other products, also goes down, thus reducing inflation.

If the price of gas goes down at the pump due to lower taxes, the prices of a truckload of goods will also drop (assuming the savings is passed on to the consumer). Since CPI is based on the consumer’s price (not the wholesale price or commodity price) it is simple to understand that a lower consumer price for gas will lower the CPI and thus lower inflation…until of course the tax is reinstated, then prices will go back up.

Its simple math really, but it may be over your head.

Once you understand the scenario above, is easy to understand that gas/diesel prices exponentially impact the price of goods at the consumer level.

It is over his head like most things

 

[TeddyValentineDidNothingWrong]

I know what commodities are, but the end consumer doesn’t pay for a commodity or buy gas at the wholesale market price…do they?

Fact is, if taxes were to go down or be eliminated the costs being charged on other products, also goes down, thus reducing inflation.

If the price of gas goes down at the pump due to lower taxes, the prices of a truckload of goods will also drop (assuming the savings is passed on to the consumer). Since CPI is based on the consumer’s price (not the wholesale price or commodity price) it is simple to understand that a lower consumer price for gas will lower the CPI and thus lower inflation…until of course the tax is reinstated, then prices will go back up.

Its simple math really, but it may be over your head.

Once you understand the scenario above, is easy to understand that gas/diesel prices exponentially impact the price of goods at the consumer level.

Thats is why Americans reject the GND, because Democrats fail to lay out a real plan on how to transition from fossil fuels to renewable energy. Democrats fail to understand that fossil fuels are the only way TO transition to renewables without significantly impacting the economy. And if the economy implodes, Americans will reject the climate change agenda.

But AOC and Bernie never took an economics class or fail to implement what they learned into today’s real world.

I implore you to read an economics book that isn't Brookings Institute propaganda.

 

[bonefish1]

I implore you to read an economics book that isn't Brookings Institute propaganda.

How Biden isn’t helping
Biden does bear at least some blame on the production side, however, according to Hatfield, who flagged his decision to cancel the Keystone XL pipeline as a key factor.

“What a lot of people don’t appreciate is canceling one pipeline is really canceling all the pipelines,” Hatfield said. “Because we need federal government support to get pipelines done in the United States, there’s always going to be tremendous local opposition, so if the federal government is not behind you, then you’re definitely not going to get any pipeline built.”

Hatfield also said that it is “nearly impossible to build a new refinery in the United States” owing to stiff regulation, which makes it more difficult for oil companies to increase production.

When asked what could be done to lower gas prices moving forward, both Hatfield and De Haan argued the president should give oil companies more clarity on the future path of the industry so they can increase production without fear of losing money on their long-term investments.

While that may not help with the current pain at the pump, it would lead to lower prices over the long haul.

Hatfield added that deregulation and tax incentives would have been used in the past, but he argued the chances of President Biden using those tactics are “absolutely zero” given his clean energy goals.

“President Biden could be doing more,” De Haan concluded.

 

[TMan92]

How Biden isn’t helping
Biden does bear at least some blame on the production side, however, according to Hatfield, who flagged his decision to cancel the Keystone XL pipeline as a key factor.

“What a lot of people don’t appreciate is canceling one pipeline is really canceling all the pipelines,” Hatfield said. “Because we need federal government support to get pipelines done in the United States, there’s always going to be tremendous local opposition, so if the federal government is not behind you, then you’re definitely not going to get any pipeline built.”

Hatfield also said that it is “nearly impossible to build a new refinery in the United States” owing to stiff regulation, which makes it more difficult for oil companies to increase production.

When asked what could be done to lower gas prices moving forward, both Hatfield and De Haan argued the president should give oil companies more clarity on the future path of the industry so they can increase production without fear of losing money on their long-term investments.

While that may not help with the current pain at the pump, it would lead to lower prices over the long haul.

Hatfield added that deregulation and tax incentives would have been used in the past, but he argued the chances of President Biden using those tactics are “absolutely zero” given his clean energy goals.

“President Biden could be doing more,” De Haan concluded.

So we can magically build oil refineries in a year? Remember when OPEC cut production massively when the spot prices went to negative?

 

[MilwaukeeBoilerFan]

Asking for a friend, how do you lower commodity costs? Hint, I think it’s implementing policies that encourages production not vice versa

Exactly! Implementing regulations only restricts the flow. Demand remains constant, supplies go lower, therefore prices go higher. None of us need a college degree to figure that out. Simple supply demand price point that a high school kid could figure out.
Speaking of supply demand and price point, "Did Slow Joe with his upper end graduation ranking tell America again that his office has no control of gas prices?" Then, wants to give a tax holiday on fuel while sucking up to a Saudi Prince and their King? Hmmm...makes me think Joe is a liar.

In case any liberals need a refresher of what less that average Joe said:

Fact-checking a video about Biden’s academic record

President Donald Trump’s reelection campaign is digging up old footage of Joe Biden’s past misstatements to make a point

www.politifact.com

 

[TMan92]

Exactly! Implementing regulations only restricts the flow. Demand remains constant, supplies go lower, therefore prices go higher. None of us need a college degree to figure that out. Simple supply demand price point that a high school kid could figure out.
Speaking of supply demand and price point, "Did Slow Joe with his upper end graduation ranking tell America again that his office has no control of gas prices?" Then, wants to give a tax holiday on fuel while sucking up to a Saudi Prince and their King? Hmmm...makes me think Joe is a liar.

In case any liberals need a refresher of what less that average Joe said:

Fact-checking a video about Biden’s academic record

President Donald Trump’s reelection campaign is digging up old footage of Joe Biden’s past misstatements to make a point

www.politifact.com

Governments can impact production, but eventually, you have to pay the piper.

"The deal for supply cuts could eventually boost prices, however, as governments worldwide start to open their economies and fuel demand rises with increased travel. Whatever the impact, the negotiations mark an extraordinary display of U.S. influence over global oil output."

Special Report: Trump told Saudi: Cut oil supply or lose U.S. military support - sources

By Timothy Gardner, Steve Holland, Dmitry Zhdannikov and Rania El Gamal

www.reuters.com

 

[TMan92]

Here is another one for those that are economics-challenged

Opec: What is it and what is happening to oil prices?

Saudi Arabia is cutting output by one million barrels a day, and Opec+ is keeping past cuts in place

www.bbc.com

Global refiners falter in efforts to keep up with demand

Refiners worldwide are struggling to meet global demand for diesel and gasoline, exacerbating high prices and aggravating shortages from big consumers like the United States and Brazil to smaller countries like war-ravaged Ukraine and Sri Lanka.

www.reuters.com

 

[TheGunner]

I implore you to read an economics book that isn't Brookings Institute propaganda.

I have read economics books.

explain this. If taxes are reduced or eliminated, does the price drop at the pump?


California’s gasoline prices are consistently much higher than the national average for three big reasons: Taxes, environmental laws (🤔)and location.

Please provide your counter argument from “your economic books”

 

[TMan92]

I have read economics books.

explain this. If taxes are reduced or eliminated, does the price drop at the pump?


California’s gasoline prices are consistently much higher than the national average for three big reasons: Taxes, environmental laws (🤔)and location.

Please provide your counter argument from “your economic books”

With federal and state taxes it equates to I think 60 cents in CA. With the current massive surplus in the budget, they definitely should eliminate this ASAP in CA but again the two parties in this state can't agree on anything except turning everything into a circus. The federal tax is 18 cents, so this could help if a national tax reduction can occur. Not huge, but anything can help. So yes, tax holidays will reduce pricing in the short term at a 10% clip in California and 5% nationally.

The other point is the reformulated gasoline laws that exist nationally in the summer. These environmental laws around RVP of gasoline have been around since before I traded gasoline in the mid-90s. Beyond demand, the cost to make lower RVP gasoline is higher and the supply chain is more tenuous to disruption in the summer months as the supply of certain grades phases into lower RVP in the summer months and then higher in the winter. This is why you see annual increases in gasoline prices in the summer beyond just demand.

CA also utilizes RFG which is a higher standard than the fed requirements. That is where location comes into play. Because of the transportation cost/differences, most of the gasoline sold in CA is made here. When refineries go down in the state, the cost shock is even higher. This is also the reason, the smog issues in SoCal have improved a ton over the years.

 

[Crayfish57]

So we can magically build oil refineries in a year? Remember when OPEC cut production massively when the spot prices went to negative?

What part of the longer you wait to build new refineries, finish pipelines, etc. the longer it will be until they can be used don't you understand?

 

[threeeputtt]

The libs do not understand it is about 8-10 years to build a new refinery (not that we have done that in 40+ years). We have enlarged some in 5. More were shut down by OSHA and EPA rules. They STILL don't understand the economics of these either between actual investment. permits, land condemnation other regs. To top it off, there never has been a coherent plan to transition from fossil to renewables. Simple things on how to put chargers economically in places that are accessible like apartments, garages, office complexes etc where people will actually buy cars if they have that. Hodgepodge. Simply.....laughable.

 

[TMan92]

The libs do not understand it is about 8-10 years to build a new refinery (not that we have done that in 40+ years). We have enlarged some in 5. More were shut down by OSHA and EPA rules. They STILL don't understand the economics of these either between actual investment. permits, land condemnation other regs. To top it off, there never has been a coherent plan to transition from fossil to renewables. Simple things on how to put chargers economically in places that are accessible like apartments, garages, office complexes etc where people will actually buy cars if they have that. Hodgepodge. Simply.....laughable.

Republicans had the White House 12 out of the last 22 years but the person in office now is to blame? I am not using this to stick up for Biden but the blame on this is a little bigger than executive orders two years ago.

If economics don’t matter, why was gas a buck a gallon during the pandemic? If you want to look a little deeper, take a look into the impact of financial traders on gas prices now vs when I was doing it in the mid and late 90s.

Lots of people are making a ton of money from this and the refining planning was all based around economic analysis of crack spreads more than EPA regs years ago. Many smart traders went long crack spreads during the pandemic are are now making a lot of coin driving them higher.

 

[TMan92]

Here is what is happening on the physical side of things, not the spot market. If transportation costs allow for larger margins, an arbitrage opportunity opens up to send ships out of the country

These are global markets.

Higher US exports of gasoline, diesel draining already-low inventories

A rapid rise in American fuel exports this year has had a hand in the record $5 a gallon gasoline prices, and is pressuring U.S. natural gas prices, which hit a decade high earlier this month. … Already an INSIDER? Sign in. We are glad you enjoy reading Business Report. Continue reading this...

www.businessreport.com

 

[bonefish1]

Here is another one for those that are economics-challenged

Opec: What is it and what is happening to oil prices?

Saudi Arabia is cutting output by one million barrels a day, and Opec+ is keeping past cuts in place

www.bbc.com

Global refiners falter in efforts to keep up with demand

Refiners worldwide are struggling to meet global demand for diesel and gasoline, exacerbating high prices and aggravating shortages from big consumers like the United States and Brazil to smaller countries like war-ravaged Ukraine and Sri Lanka.

www.reuters.com

Why doesn't the US drill more and not rely on OPEC?

 

[bonefish1]

With federal and state taxes it equates to I think 60 cents in CA. With the current massive surplus in the budget, they definitely should eliminate this ASAP in CA but again the two parties in this state can't agree on anything except turning everything into a circus. The federal tax is 18 cents, so this could help if a national tax reduction can occur. Not huge, but anything can help. So yes, tax holidays will reduce pricing in the short term at a 10% clip in California and 5% nationally.

The other point is the reformulated gasoline laws that exist nationally in the summer. These environmental laws around RVP of gasoline have been around since before I traded gasoline in the mid-90s. Beyond demand, the cost to make lower RVP gasoline is higher and the supply chain is more tenuous to disruption in the summer months as the supply of certain grades phases into lower RVP in the summer months and then higher in the winter. This is why you see annual increases in gasoline prices in the summer beyond just demand.

CA also utilizes RFG which is a higher standard than the fed requirements. That is where location comes into play. Because of the transportation cost/differences, most of the gasoline sold in CA is made here. When refineries go down in the state, the cost shock is even higher. This is also the reason, the smog issues in SoCal have improved a ton over the years.

My guess is that most of the refining and grade requirements are ideas supported by Democrats?

 

[bonefish1]

Republicans had the White House 12 out of the last 22 years but the person in office now is to blame? I am not using this to stick up for Biden but the blame on this is a little bigger than executive orders two years ago.

If economics don’t matter, why was gas a buck a gallon during the pandemic? If you want to look a little deeper, take a look into the impact of financial traders on gas prices now vs when I was doing it in the mid and late 90s.

Lots of people are making a ton of money from this and the refining planning was all based around economic analysis of crack spreads more than EPA regs years ago. Many smart traders went long crack spreads during the pandemic are are now making a lot of coin driving them higher.

If the Oil companies are in control of gas/oil prices, why would prices ever go down? Why don't they just conspire (maybe with OPEC) to keep production constrained and make $6/gallon gas the new normal? If the energy companies are printing money right now, what incentive is there for them to ever stop?

 

[BuilderBob6]

If the Oil companies are in control of gas/oil prices, why would prices ever go down? Why don't they just conspire (maybe with OPEC) to keep production constrained and make $6/gallon gas the new normal? If the energy companies are printing money right now, what incentive is there for them to ever stop?

Wow. Scrambling to keep your argument afloat takes you to some ridiculous places.

You must be in sales.

 

[bonefish1]

Wow. Scrambling to keep your argument afloat takes you to some ridiculous places.

You must be in sales.

I am in sales, but that's beside the point.
What I keep hearing from lefties/lib/dems is:
1) the POTUS can't influence gas prices
2) the high gas prices are a reflection of a global supply/demand issue
3) the energy companies aren't willing to increase production because they're making too much money the way it is.
4) Biden energy policy/regulation doesn't have anything to do with US oil/gas production.

Which of these 4 statements are incorrect?

 

[TheGunner]

Wow. Scrambling to keep your argument afloat takes you to some ridiculous places.

You must be in sales.

I must save this post!

 

[BuilderBob6]

I am in sales, but that's beside the point.
What I keep hearing from lefties/lib/dems is:
1) the POTUS can't influence gas prices
2) the high gas prices are a reflection of a global supply/demand issue
3) the energy companies aren't willing to increase production because they're making too much money the way it is.
4) Biden energy policy/regulation doesn't have anything to do with US oil/gas production.

Which of these 4 statements are incorrect?

You first.

How 'bout you you think about why companies in all sorts of sectors don't do what you said about oil companies? Explain why you don't do it in your business? Then maybe you won't use that ridiculous argument to try and support your premise.

 

[bonefish1]

You first.

How 'bout you you think about why companies in all sorts of sectors don't do what you said about oil companies? Explain why you don't do it in your business? Then maybe you won't use that ridiculous argument to try and support your premise.

I see that you can't answer the question.
But again, I'll speak more slowly this time:
1) why would the oil companies ever increase supply and production if doing so is going to hurt their margins and reduce income?
2) Why was gas well under $2/gal during the Trump presidency?
3) Does the Biden energy policies have anything to do with why domestic oil companies are producing less?

Pretty simple questions for you to answer.

 

[BuilderBob6]

I see that you can't answer the question.
But again, I'll speak more slowly this time:
1) why would the oil companies ever increase supply and production if doing so is going to hurt their margins and reduce income?
2) Why was gas well under $2/gal during the Trump presidency?
3) Does the Biden energy policies have anything to do with why domestic oil companies are producing less?

Pretty simple questions for you to answer.

I'm tired of doing this crap with you people. You change the conversation when you realize, or even when you don't, your statement was ridiculous.

It's obvious you are in sales.

Why doesn't your company get in cahoots with the other companies that sell the same product and keep the prices and margins high all the time? Can you wrap your head around that and answer the question? That was your scenario for the oil companies.......which have far more market, supply/demand, speculation, production, processing and transportation forces affecting it than almost any product we use.

 

[bonefish1]

I'm tired of doing this crap with you people. You change the conversation when you realize, or even when you don't, your statement was ridiculous.

It's obvious you are in sales.

Why doesn't your company get in cahoots with the other companies that sell the same product and keep the prices and margins high all the time? Can you wrap your head around that and answer the question? That was your scenario for the oil companies.......which have far more market, supply/demand, speculation, production, processing and transportation forces affecting it than almost any product we use.

Oil and gas are commodities. Unlike specialized manufactured products where companies are building in competetive advantages with features and benefits in an order to win marketshare, oil and gas production is pretty much the same for all parties involved.

But, back to the original question:
Do Biden's environmental policies have anything to do with US oil drilling/refining and therefore, gas prices?

Why were prices for gas under $2/gal under Trump?

I think you know the answer, but you're afraid to say it.

 

[BuilderBob6]

Oil and gas are commodities. Unlike specialized manufactured products where companies are building in competetive advantages with features and benefits in an order to win marketshare, oil and gas production is pretty much the same for all parties involved.

But, back to the original question:
Do Biden's environmental policies have anything to do with US oil drilling/refining and therefore, gas prices?

Why were prices for gas under $2/gal under Trump?

I think you know the answer, but you're afraid to say it.

No no no. Wait.

You sell oil and gas commodities?

 

[TMan92]

Oil and gas are commodities. Unlike specialized manufactured products where companies are building in competetive advantages with features and benefits in an order to win marketshare, oil and gas production is pretty much the same for all parties involved.

But, back to the original question:
Do Biden's environmental policies have anything to do with US oil drilling/refining and therefore, gas prices?

Why were prices for gas under $2/gal under Trump?

I think you know the answer, but you're afraid to say it.

Gasoline prices were $2/gal under Trump because demand completely cratered. It would have been lower if he didn't get the oil cartel to cut production. Yes, OPEC is a cartel. They do control crude prices. You are way out of your element here man.

 

[TMan92]

Why doesn't the US drill more and not rely on OPEC?

It is called who has the most production. Again, oil and gas are global markets.

 

[TMan92]

If the Oil companies are in control of gas/oil prices, why would prices ever go down? Why don't they just conspire (maybe with OPEC) to keep production constrained and make $6/gallon gas the new normal? If the energy companies are printing money right now, what incentive is there for them to ever stop?

They do conspire but there is a thing called supply/demand that would eventually move the other side down if prices are too high. And they do conspire. That is what cartels do.