Breaking down what needs fixed...

[*4purdue*]

1) Coaching - I know exactly who is going to come into the game during each stoppage in play. The subbing patterns are exactly the same every game. CMP needs to coach to win games, not make everyone happy with distributed playing time. If I know our subbing player, think how easy it is for the other B1G coaches that have been scouting us.

2) PG - CMP needs to pick a point & let him play until he's tired or in foul trouble. We took off last year when JO was given the job. It's time to pick one. I'm in favor of Hill or Mathias, but whoever it is, needs to be given the reigns.

3) Wings - Davis & Edwards need to be driving to the basket & not settle for jumpers. Even if they miss on the drive, they usually have double coverage when they get to the basket & it opens it up for our bigs to put back the miss. With our size, we need to be attacking the basket.

4) Swanigan - He's a work in progress & we really need him on the floor. I like the idea of him playing at the 5 some, but CMP needs to adapt & change things up before the game gets out of hand like it did last night.

5) Hammons & Haas - AJ has to take us to the promise land. If he's focused & playing well, he needs to stay in the game. When he's not, that's when Haas needs to play. It will motivate both players, Hammons will go to the bench when he's not cut in & realize he better start playing or will sit. When Haas does come in, he will do everything he can to prove he needs more minutes. Our team motivation seems to have gone by the way side. I really like how the bench players played at the start of the season because it seemed like there was so much competition for playing time. With the subbing pattern the same, no one seems to come in with any urgency.

6) Offense in general - For a team with alot of bigs, it sure seems we have alot of trouble getting open looks. This team needs to learn spacing & run the offense higher out on the floor, rather than packing it in & clogging the lanes.

 

[TC4THREE]

1. I agree with this some. I don't mind giving everyone (top 10 rotational players) a shot the first time through the rotation but I think he needs to be tweaking the rotation more each game after we've seen how our players are playing and matching up with our opponent that game. For me, this was evident for me during the Iowa game. When we started the second half without Hammons on the floor or any of our shooters (after they all were hitting in the first half) I thought to myself, "Well, this is about the worst assortment of rotational players he could put on the floor to start the second half. Hope we don't allow Iowa back into the game quickly." Sure enough, they came back and by the time we had our top players that night back into the game Iowa had already seized momentum.

2. Disagree completely. I tend to favor Hill a bit more than PJ right now but it's really a game-by-game proposition. Both have their moments and I think you play both and if one happens to be playing well that night you ride that guy more in the second half.

3. Probably a little bit but these two are also shooting 40% and 36% from deep so if they are being dared to take it I don't mind them taking it. I would like to see these two look to drive more as an alternative to just making another pass around the perimeter. If they are being guarded on the perimeter and the entry pass into the post isn't there, clear the post player on that side of the court and let them attack off the dribble. I don't want to turn this into a one-on-one offense but when the matchups are there for these two we could do a better job of looking to exploit it.

4. Swanigan is a work in progress, and we should see LESS of him on the floor unless he can defend his matchup and take care of the ball. I'm tired of seeing 3 or 4 turnovers from him every game. He's not learning and it is costing us big time in games. Our offense looks so much better with Vince at the 4 it's not even funny. Unfortunately I don't think Painter has the guts to sit him down when needed because he was his first 5 star. Just to be clear, I think Swanigan is tremendously talented with a very high ceiling. Unfortunately, his development is kind of stuck in neutral right now and until he can defend and quit turning the ball over as much I think we have better options right now. A little more time on the bench won't hurt him. It might even accelerate that learning curve. Sometimes players can play through their mistakes but he's been making the same ones for most the season. If AJ isn't too good to come off the bench then neither is Swanigan.

5. We are starting to get to the AJ-heavy-side of this platoon which is where we need to be at this point. Give Haas 10-15 min a game to keep AJ rested down the stretch and out of foul trouble but we are a much better team with AJ in and he needs to see as much time as he can handle.

6. Spacing needs to be better at times and when the defense cheats to double the post we need to be better at taking advantage of that. Too many times we have a guy left open on the perimeter when his defender leaves him to double the post and we just stand out there and hope for the pass out. I'd like to see that guy cut to the rim more often. I mean an open 3 isn't a bad shot but I'll take uncontested layup over that if I can get it.

 

[boiler_pride]

> The subbing patterns are exactly the same every game.

Some very respected coaches use set-in-stone substitution patterns (baring foul trouble). Jerry Sloan is one I can think of right away. I remember reading that his players actually liked it because they knew who they played with and how much energy to spare. I think Painter's problem is not the pattern itself but the lack of consistency of the players. So a mix that works one day can fail the next day.

> CMP needs to pick a point & let him play until he's tired or in foul trouble.

I cannot disagree more. Neither of our PGs are above average though they both try so it's not due to lack of effort! The returns will diminish with increasing playing time which means our PGs would be more ineffective at the end of the games. He does need to play Hill more though because the anaytics show we are more effective defensively with Hill in the lineup.

> Davis & Edwards need to be driving to the basket & not settle for jumpers.

I agree with this 100%. I know Davis is a crowd favorite here but he's one player that frustrates me most. I honestly think he has all the talent in the world and has all the tools... He just doesn't use them! Do you guys remember him going 1-on-5 against a talented ND team 3 years ago? They couldn't stop him! We need that Davis consistently. Also, he's the reigning DPOY but I'd put him one level below the elite defenders of the past.

> I like the idea of him playing at the 5 some

I like that too but I don't know how the kid will respond to that. I mean the main reason he picked to play here is NOT to play at the 5.

> AJ has to take us to the promise land.

I can't fault AJ much since he's been the most consistent guy so far this year (talk about irony!) However, he has his limitations and the rest of the team needs to complement him on those. Swanigan with the rebounds, Davis and Edwards in terms of athleticism and physicality, and the guards need to get him the ball in the spots he's effective.

> This team needs to learn spacing

We play some kind of a 2-3 motion offense but our guards are generally poor dribblers. I think we can space well initially but we can't quite create a positional advantage without the speed and that quick ball handling. Not to sound obvious but if we had someone like Trey Burke on this team, you'd see nothing but open 3s and dunks. I'm not sure how to solve this issue though. You can't make people faster or better dribblers over night.

 

[FleeTheScene]

Can someone please explain the case for Mathias at the point to me? At this point he doesn't do much to create his own shot, save for a pump fake and step in when a defender is a little late rotating to him. I think PJ has been about as reliable from three as him and pj had at least shown some ability to get to the basket where I don't think Dakota has. Defensively I think they're pretty comparable, Dakota may be better straight up but PJ creates more turnovers.

Can anyone explain to me why they believe Dakota would be better at the point?

 

[*4purdue*]

Can someone please explain the case for Mathias at the point to me? At this point he doesn't do much to create his own shot, save for a pump fake and step in when a defender is a little late rotating to him. I think PJ has been about as reliable from three as him and pj had at least shown some ability to get to the basket where I don't think Dakota has. Defensively I think they're pretty comparable, Dakota may be better straight up but PJ creates more turnovers.

Can anyone explain to me why they believe Dakota would be better at the point?

I like PJ, but his size has really hurt us at times. Twice yesterday. Once when we tried inbounding the ball to him and it was stolen by a bigger Ilini guard. 2 was when he got switched to a forward who easily shot over him. We've has small guards in the past, but they were quick... PJ is not.

 

[boiler_pride]

Can someone please explain the case for Mathias at the point to me?

IMO, there is no case. Dakota is NOT a point guard. Some here think we have this motion offense that doesn't require any dribbling (nonsense) but we need someone who can partially break down a defense on the move with the ball -- not to mention, bring the ball up against the pressure which we will see more often than not.

I mean this is basketball, guys. You can't not dribble. You gotta go past your defender, with the ball in your hand, at one point.

 

[FleeTheScene]

I like PJ, but his size has really hurt us at times. Twice yesterday. Once when we tried inbounding the ball to him and it was stolen by a bigger Ilini guard. 2 was when he got switched to a forward who easily shot over him. We've has small guards in the past, but they were quick... PJ is not.

You aren't wrong about those things but that doesn't mean Dakota would be a better option. You're making the case for Johnny more than anyone there. The crimes against humanity that are our under the basket inbounds are hardly on PJ's size either. I would say that defensive help should take care of egregious size mismatches on screens, at least that's what other teams have done to negate our size advantages. I'm just not sold on Dakota being the best option at the point.

 

[SYoumans]

IMO, there is no case. Dakota is NOT a point guard. Some here think we have this motion offense that doesn't require any dribbling (nonsense) but we need someone who can partially break down a defense on the move with the ball -- not to mention, bring the ball up against the pressure which we will see more often than not.

I mean this is basketball, guys. You can't not dribble. You gotta go past your defender, with the ball in your hand, at one point.

When is the last time PJ broke down a defense on the move with the ball? He's the same size as Lewis Jackson, but has the same quickness as Patrick Bade.

Hill is our best option at point but against non-trap/press defenses, Mathias should get more time there than anyone, and I was adamantly AGAINST Mathias playing a single minute at PG before the season started. It's clear to me now though that Mathias brings a skill set to the point that we absolutely need at certain times. I mean, for god's sake, we're seeing three defenders collapse on AJ in the post sometimes because nobody is concerned about our perimeter.

 

[pumsu]

Can someone please explain the case for Mathias at the point to me? At this point he doesn't do much to create his own shot, save for a pump fake and step in when a defender is a little late rotating to him. I think PJ has been about as reliable from three as him and pj had at least shown some ability to get to the basket where I don't think Dakota has. Defensively I think they're pretty comparable, Dakota may be better straight up but PJ creates more turnovers.

Can anyone explain to me why they believe Dakota would be better at the point?

They don't know basketball...

 

[pumsu]

IMO, there is no case. Dakota is NOT a point guard. Some here think we have this motion offense that doesn't require any dribbling (nonsense) but we need someone who can partially break down a defense on the move with the ball -- not to mention, bring the ball up against the pressure which we will see more often than not.

I mean this is basketball, guys. You can't not dribble. You gotta go past your defender, with the ball in your hand, at one point.

Right you are.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

1) Coaching - I know exactly who is going to come into the game during each stoppage in play. The subbing patterns are exactly the same every game. CMP needs to coach to win games, not make everyone happy with distributed playing time. If I know our subbing player, think how easy it is for the other B1G coaches that have been scouting us.

2) PG - CMP needs to pick a point & let him play until he's tired or in foul trouble. We took off last year when JO was given the job. It's time to pick one. I'm in favor of Hill or Mathias, but whoever it is, needs to be given the reigns.

3) Wings - Davis & Edwards need to be driving to the basket & not settle for jumpers. Even if they miss on the drive, they usually have double coverage when they get to the basket & it opens it up for our bigs to put back the miss. With our size, we need to be attacking the basket.

4) Swanigan - He's a work in progress & we really need him on the floor. I like the idea of him playing at the 5 some, but CMP needs to adapt & change things up before the game gets out of hand like it did last night.

5) Hammons & Haas - AJ has to take us to the promise land. If he's focused & playing well, he needs to stay in the game. When he's not, that's when Haas needs to play. It will motivate both players, Hammons will go to the bench when he's not cut in & realize he better start playing or will sit. When Haas does come in, he will do everything he can to prove he needs more minutes. Our team motivation seems to have gone by the way side. I really like how the bench players played at the start of the season because it seemed like there was so much competition for playing time. With the subbing pattern the same, no one seems to come in with any urgency.

6) Offense in general - For a team with alot of bigs, it sure seems we have alot of trouble getting open looks. This team needs to learn spacing & run the offense higher out on the floor, rather than packing it in & clogging the lanes.

I still like PJ at the point. He's leading in assist/to, he's averaging more ppg than Mathias who is not a point guard, he's done better than Hill. I do agree that Painter needs to give the ball to him and make it his team to run.

 

[SDBoiler1]

You aren't wrong about those things but that doesn't mean Dakota would be a better option. You're making the case for Johnny more than anyone there. The crimes against humanity that are our under the basket inbounds are hardly on PJ's size either. I would say that defensive help should take care of egregious size mismatches on screens, at least that's what other teams have done to negate our size advantages. I'm just not sold on Dakota being the best option at the point.

Agree completely. Mathias is a good shooter and a decent passer (at times). He's not a good ballhandler in general and has no business playing PG on this team. Yesterday Painter did something that I thought was smart when Illinois tried to trap. He had three guys help to bring the ball up-the-court (Stephens helped a time or two for instance, and I think Edwards). They seemed to break the "press" easier than when the wheels came off against Iowa.

 

[*4purdue*]

IMO, there is no case. Dakota is NOT a point guard. Some here think we have this motion offense that doesn't require any dribbling (nonsense) but we need someone who can partially break down a defense on the move with the ball -- not to mention, bring the ball up against the pressure which we will see more often than not.

I mean this is basketball, guys. You can't not dribble. You gotta go past your defender, with the ball in your hand, at one point.

I'm personally in favor of Hill, but I do think Mathias is in the conversation. Watch the tape of the Iowa game again... PJ was the one getting burned by the press the most. Not all his fault, but he is small and can't go over the top against the press. Is he a better ball handler than Mathias... Yes, but not by leaps and bounds. None of them are going to be considered all B1G and C Edwards can't get here fast enough. Hill give us length, can get to the basket and is the best defender of the 3. Mathias is the best passer and shooter of the 3. I also think he is the best decision maker of the 3 and there is no debating that the offense runs better when he's on the floor, whether its at the 1, 2, or 3.

 

[pumsu]

When Mathias is doing the things you say he does well guess what position he is playing... Hint, it is not point guard . Guess who is on the floor with him.. A point guard. He is not a point guard capable of breaking pressure or running an offense and especially on defense. Right now he is too slow footed to cover most two guards. Nice player, makes some good passes, and can shoot ( sometimes). Not a point. Never will be.

 

[*4purdue*]

When Mathias is doing the things you say he does well guess what position he is playing... Hint, it is not point guard . Guess who is on the floor with him.. A point guard. He is not a point guard capable of breaking pressure or running an offense and especially on defense. Right now he is too slow footed to cover most two guards. Nice player, makes some good passes, and can shoot ( sometimes). Not a point. Never will be.

Just because he's on the floor as the point, doesn't mean he has to guard the opposing point. I don't understand why people always think you need to guard the guy who guards you. There has also been times where CMP has used him as the point, so obviously, he can. See link concerning him playing the point. The coaching staff has obviously considered it.

http://www.news-sentinel.com/sports/pu/Purdue-s-Dakota-Mathias-set-to-make-a-point---as-in-guard

 

[snowsquirrel11]

2. Why do people think that we are better with Hill? PJ is the better offensive threat, and is as good on defense (Against Illinois, PJ had 2 steals, Hill had 0. Hill also had 4 fouls in 15 minutes of playing time.) Regardless, it's best to split the minutes there as needed, since each one will have better matchups on a game by game basis.

3. Davis does need to get to the hoop more, but with 2 bigs that sit in the paint and defenses that pack it in, it's extremely difficult to drive. Edwards has done a good job of driving when it is there without forcing anything and he needs to continue doing that.

4. Swanigan is actually worse at playing the 5 than he is the 4. His defense is below average, he is undersized for the center position, and he doesn't have the ability to help our guards when they inevitably get beat off the dribble. Plus, with 2 fantastic centers I don't see the point. If you want to go "small ball" you'd be better off dropping Swanigan altogether and having Hammons play the 5. He's a better defender, more mobile, and more reliable on offense. IMO, I'd like to see more lineups with Hammons, Vince, Stephens, Mathias, and Hill/PJ. That's our best offensive lineup with good spacing, obviously that's only viable if said players are able to defend, which against Illinois they were not.

 

[Boilerrush]

1) Coaching - I know exactly who is going to come into the game during each stoppage in play. The subbing patterns are exactly the same every game. CMP needs to coach to win games, not make everyone happy with distributed playing time. If I know our subbing player, think how easy it is for the other B1G coaches that have been scouting us.

2) PG - CMP needs to pick a point & let him play until he's tired or in foul trouble. We took off last year when JO was given the job. It's time to pick one. I'm in favor of Hill or Mathias, but whoever it is, needs to be given the reigns.

3) Wings - Davis & Edwards need to be driving to the basket & not settle for jumpers. Even if they miss on the drive, they usually have double coverage when they get to the basket & it opens it up for our bigs to put back the miss. With our size, we need to be attacking the basket.

4) Swanigan - He's a work in progress & we really need him on the floor. I like the idea of him playing at the 5 some, but CMP needs to adapt & change things up before the game gets out of hand like it did last night.

5) Hammons & Haas - AJ has to take us to the promise land. If he's focused & playing well, he needs to stay in the game. When he's not, that's when Haas needs to play. It will motivate both players, Hammons will go to the bench when he's not cut in & realize he better start playing or will sit. When Haas does come in, he will do everything he can to prove he needs more minutes. Our team motivation seems to have gone by the way side. I really like how the bench players played at the start of the season because it seemed like there was so much competition for playing time. With the subbing pattern the same, no one seems to come in with any urgency.

6) Offense in general - For a team with alot of bigs, it sure seems we have alot of trouble getting open looks. This team needs to learn spacing & run the offense higher out on the floor, rather than packing it in & clogging the lanes.

 

[Boiler Wolf]

I believe the reason so many players are in the rotation and the substitution patterns are the way they are is none of our 1s, 2s, or 3s has been able to differentiate themselves significantly. Heck, even this thread has disagreements about who should get the starts and presumably the most PT. I believe Matt is trying to give everyone equal opportunity to earn more PT, but no one has stood out.

I think Keady only thought about winning the game at hand. Matt of course wants to win too, but seems to see the value in building for the future early in the season. I expect the rotation to go down to 5 who get 27 to 36 minutes per game in the last half of conference play, and the rest to get 10 minutes or less per game.

 

[toddbrewster]

You posters are insane. Our two best players are AJ and Haas and instead of creating more minutes for them by playing them together for about 3 minutes per half, you want to play them less. Do you realize that we are in the negative when Haas of AJ are not in the game? In the zone, you play AJ high and Haas low. AJ can hit the 15 footer or pass underneath to Haas. Against man to man, you put both in the deep block. Out player from the foul line to the top of the key can hit either. They cannot be doubled team. If they are by a wing you pass it to our wing at the 3 point line for an open 3. On defense, you put Haas on the center and AJ has shown the foot speed to stop the jump shot, if the shooter goes around him. Hello Mr. Haas. If their center shoots the 3, put AJ on him. AJ can close him down, because he does not have to worry about protecting the rim. Put Haas on the wing who is not shooting well and let him drift out to the 3 pt line.

 

[pumsu]

Just because he's on the floor as the point, doesn't mean he has to guard the opposing point. I don't understand why people always think you need to guard the guy who guards you. There has also been times where CMP has used him as the point, so obviously, he can. See link concerning him playing the point. The coaching staff has obviously considered it.

http://www.news-sentinel.com/sports/pu/Purdue-s-Dakota-Mathias-set-to-make-a-point---as-in-guard

Just because he's on the floor as the point, doesn't mean he has to guard the opposing point. I don't understand why people always think you need to guard the guy who guards you. There has also been times where CMP has used him as the point, so obviously, he can. See link concerning him playing the point. The coaching staff has obviously considered it.

http://www.news-sentinel.com/sports/pu/Purdue-s-Dakota-Mathias-set-to-make-a-point---as-in-guard

who would guard the point a bigger slower person. Considered for a minute, uh no. He has played the point s few minutes and uh no.

 

[scolytus]

I don't get PJ at all. He has small mans syndrome with his jaw stuck out and pounding the ball into the court. He needs to forget about looking tough and showing everyone how hard he can dribble and move the ball up the court to get the offense started. I much prefer Hill better on the drive, runs down rebounds and far more experience. His problem is he tries to do too much at times and gets our of control but no comparison between him and PJ. No strutting and showboating with Hill.

 

[*4purdue*]

who would guard the point a bigger slower person. Considered for a minute, uh no. He has played the point s few minutes and uh no.

All he has to do is guard on the perimeter, which he can do. We have 2 seven footers that protect the rim if he gets beat on the dribble. It's not that difficult to understand.

 

[lbodel]

You posters are insane. Our two best players are AJ and Haas and instead of creating more minutes for them by playing them together for about 3 minutes per half, you want to play them less. Do you realize that we are in the negative when Haas of AJ are not in the game? In the zone, you play AJ high and Haas low. AJ can hit the 15 footer or pass underneath to Haas. Against man to man, you put both in the deep block. Out player from the foul line to the top of the key can hit either. They cannot be doubled team. If they are by a wing you pass it to our wing at the 3 point line for an open 3. On defense, you put Haas on the center and AJ has shown the foot speed to stop the jump shot, if the shooter goes around him. Hello Mr. Haas. If their center shoots the 3, put AJ on him. AJ can close him down, because he does not have to worry about protecting the rim. Put Haas on the wing who is not shooting well and let him drift out to the 3 pt line.

One of the team's biggest problems offensively is spacing. I don't think adding a second 7 footer is gonna help with that. They need to learn to play and maximize the opportunities good spacing can give them with just 1 on the floor first. We have big guards - they should be feasting on the interior given the attention teams give to Hammons/Haas/Swanigan.

 

[SIBoiler2]

I just want us to run the table the rest of the way with no win less than a margin of 20 and a 3pt % of at least 60. That should fix the problems on this board!!!

 

[toddbrewster]

One of the team's biggest problems offensively is spacing. I don't think adding a second 7 footer is gonna help with that. They need to learn to play and maximize the opportunities good spacing can give them with just 1 on the floor first. We have big guards - they should be feasting on the interior given the attention teams give to Hammons/Haas/Swanigan.

Spacing is necessary, because it stops teams from double teaming you, but here are 2 ways where we can create spacing with AJ and Haas.

Swanigan is playing great and I love his tenacity at rebounding. However, he is still learning and the majority of his turnovers is when he is at the high post and trying to create or feed Haas underneath. AJ is very skilled at recognizing the double teaming and can slip into that role as PF very well.

Another time, they are in a 122.and we have a ball handler up top with the wingmen and AJ and Hass posting low on either side. The spacing low makes it very hard to double team. If they get it low, the D has to send a wingman and presto an open 3. Make sense?.

 

[mathboy]

You posters are insane. Our two best players are AJ and Haas and instead of creating more minutes for them by playing them together for about 3 minutes per half, you want to play them less. Do you realize that we are in the negative when Haas of AJ are not in the game? In the zone, you play AJ high and Haas low. AJ can hit the 15 footer or pass underneath to Haas. Against man to man, you put both in the deep block. Out player from the foul line to the top of the key can hit either. They cannot be doubled team. If they are by a wing you pass it to our wing at the 3 point line for an open 3. On defense, you put Haas on the center and AJ has shown the foot speed to stop the jump shot, if the shooter goes around him. Hello Mr. Haas. If their center shoots the 3, put AJ on him. AJ can close him down, because he does not have to worry about protecting the rim. Put Haas on the wing who is not shooting well and let him drift out to the 3 pt line.

Actually, VE and Matias are probably better players than Haas, both offensively and defensively. Putting both centers on the court at the same time makes no basketball sense at all. The paint area is not large enough to have two centers playing with their back to the basket.

 

[toddbrewster]

There is enough space, if the D is playing a 1 2 2. They can each take a side, they can X each other and both can pop out 10 feet. This O would combat the D from sending a wing behind.

However, most of the time I am saying that AJ can play facing the basket. If he plays high low with Haas, AJ can see over the ops PF to feed Haas easily and AJ has the experience to feel the double team and pass out of it to the wing. He needs to learn to fake the pass and do a two dribble drive to the basket.

The problem would be on D. However, I notice AJ closes out well on jump shooters. His problem is when they are shooting 3's he does not want to leave the rim unprotected and a good offensive player can dribble around him. However, if Haas is there, he dribbles into Hass and AJ can now wander out and shutdown the 3 pointer.