Thanks for sharing and I appreciate your kind words.
Boiler Summer BB Workouts
- Thread starter RFSNES
- Start date
Last I checked, College Basketball begins in November! Anyway; just look at the improvement Biggie and Boogie made between their Freshman campaigns and their Sophomore campaigns! Major jumps are possible and pretty common at Purdue! Eastern is already an elite defender imo; so if his shot has progressed from last year he is going to be really good and see a lot of playing time! Can't wait for the season to begin in November!
Cuonzo was 0-6 from 3 as a sophomore, then hit 88 threes the next season. It’s possible.
Gordon:
20 ppg
43.3%fg
33.7% 3Fg
3.3 Rpg
2.4 spg
Edwards sophomore year:
18.5 ppg
45.8%fg
40.6% 3fg
3.8 Rpg
2.8 Rpg
Carsen has better stats in every metric listed except points, which is to be expected I think because of how loaded our team was...Carsen didn’t really become the man until around February seems like. As odd as it sounds to say, with all the shots he’s going to have the green light on, I’d be disappointed if he averaged “just” 20 ppg.
I expect something more like Shawn respert ( not respert stats, but my prediction)
23-25 ppg
43% fg
40% 3fg
4.5 Rpg
3 spg
I wasn't implying anything about Nojel and I'm sure he has been working his butt off this summer trying to get better. I would love nothing more than to see him with an improved jumper and FT shooting because that would be a deadly combination for someone with his skill set.
My point was more that someone mentioned guys that were 10% 3 pt shooters coming back as 40%+ shooters and it's just rare to make that big of a leap. Not impossible, (Zo Martin did it), but rare.
I already mentioned Zo and he was a huge exception (and also 24 years ago). Haas did become a much better FT shooter, I agree, no argument there. But FT shooting is probably the easiest area to improve. DM improved by approximately 4% annually over his 4 years, not a 20-30% improvement in 1 year.
I wasn't just thinking stats, I was also taking into consideration how both Carsen and Gordon have similar games. They're both built like running backs, strong with the ball, can get to the rim, take the hits and finish, but also will drain 3's all day if left open.
Gotcha. His improvements will be a lot better more time he has had this off season to address those 2 areas of his game and its paying off. He’s gained his confidence back bcuz he has the time this particular off season to be able to work on not just his shooting and FTs but all aspects of his game and with no over seas trip he has had the time to concentrate on just getting better and boy is it better.
They do have very similar games. If Carsen 4 inches taller, he would be have been a 1 and done like Gordon.
Its hard to come up with another example of a highly successful shooting guard who is ~ 6' tall and 200lbs. Best I can come up is maybe Derek Fisher. Although a point guard, I also think Kyle Lowry is decent comp for style of play and size.
I think UNC had a similar sized guard recently that had a really good inside/outside game. Can't think of his name.
Jay Williams from Duke is a little taller but built similar.
Actually, I think Willie Deane is a good comparison. Deane just had no supporting cast to help him.
I agree about Willie Deane being the most comparable Purdue player that I can think of. Add some weight to Willie and tell him he's unstoppable when he drives, and you have Carsen.
It's great to hear his confidence is back, but I'm surprised to hear his confidence was down in the first place. He was 6th man on a team ranked in the top 10 for most of the year, pretty good for a freshman. If he just has a couple more layups go down this year, I'll be happy. That'll be around 7 ppg, which I think is reasonable. He brings so much energy, defense, and puts the opposing team in a matchup bind that his impact is so much greater than the points he scores. Very intriguing player; I think we all see the potential there.
Sir You lack confidence when you are not playing much can’t get into the mind never cold catch a rhythm with you getting 3 min a stretch a game so yeah that could get to any player when you not playing. Sir with all due respect he’s a ball player he’s more than a defender and rebounder he will make more than just a lay up this season he will score many points in a variety of ways with 3 point jump shots attacking the basket floaters mid range pull ups jumpers low post game on smaller defenders he has more to his game offensively than what he was able to show he justfound another way he could get in the game a little more by rebounding and defending so he took that part of his game to another level now add his offensive game with what you saw last season he’s gonna be a problem like you said to match up against. You saw only a small portion of my sons game he’s an all around player defensively and offensively and that will be on display this season.
I feel for you guys, not having much of a glimpse into summer workouts. Crean was the same way when he was at IU. I'm glad Archie is different, he's upped their social media game and the IU twitter account is putting out video glimpses into summer workouts all the time now. Even did highlights from a team scrimmage the other day. Definitely one thing I've loved about the coaching change, that stuff helps me get through the summer until basketball season starts back up.
I always thought of Willie Deane as sort of poor mans Iverson.
I think the UNC guy you are remembering is Raymond Felton. Was surprised to see that he is still in the NBA after 12 yrs. He more of pass first PG though than Carsen for sure. Very similar size though.
In my many years of coaching kids and helping them improve their shots, I have learned a few things about kids and their shooting forms - not cast in stone, mind you - but as a general rule:
JMHOAU
- the older kids get, the more they get set in their ways - especially if they have some success in the way they've been shooting the ball. Young egos are often more of a challenge to overcome than the mere mechanics of improving one's shot. The reason is that when one significantly changes their mechanics, their shooting percentage invariably drops, at least initially, which can cause embarrassment and a consequent subconscious return to their old habits when playing with friends or teammates. In some cases, I have seen older kids revert to their old ways even after literally thousands of practice shots using improved mechanics. On the other hand, I have seen a case where a kid was so motivated to get better, his ego did not deter him from sticking with his improved mechanics, even when his performance dropped off initially in competition. But his case was definitely more the exception.
- The more the mechanics need to be modified, the less likely the new form will be retained. Again, not in all cases, but with age, significant form changes become less and less likely. Minor modifications, such as initial stance and release point, are relatively easy to correct and be retained. However, the more that muscle memory is involved, the less likely the form will be retained with age. Both the late Ernie Hobbie - a mentor to me - and I have found that to be true. Which is why I have always taught that the fewer muscles and body movements that are involved during a shot - or during any athletic motion, such as tennis - the less difficult it will be to develop consistency.
- Besides minimizing unnecessary muscle movements, the biggest factor in developing a consistent shot is mental - namely confidence. I have always found that kids who look at improving their shot as being a fun way of challenging themselves to get better generally improve much more rapidly than a kid who feels intense, negative pressure to get better. Let's face it - basketball is a game and is meant to be fun. And when kids keep that perspective, they tend to improve much more readily than if they feel there will be some sort of negative consequences if they don't.
JMHOAU
From what I have seen, Nojel has a sweet stroke from 3. I have no clue what was happening at the free-throw line, but his jumper looked good to me.
There was a video clip of him on the team Instagram story showing him shooting free throws. Think the video showed 3-5 makes in a row. Looks more confident - still has a slight hitch but he was sinking them.
We have a legit SID and group but they haven’t been posting as much as they did last year. Perhaps part of last summer was getting ready for WUG - not sure.
Side note - how respectabled is Nick Baumgart on IU basketball? He tweets a lot and was wondering if he has legit sources on recruiting or not.
A pedestrian 32% to an elite 47% is what Dakota did. You want to dismiss it, fine. I notice that you didn't even comment on PJ. Doesn't fit your narrative, I guess.
Yeah, Zo was 24 years ago. Then I gave 3 examples from last year's senior class. Can't get much more current than that.
The summer heat is obviously getting to some of us because I find myself agreeing with @BoilerAndy a lot recently.
We haven't done a great job in the past, but I know Archie mentioned right after he was hired that he wanted to take the social media team to another level. He certainly has. I love it!
I've heard the name and seen him post quite a bit, not sure who he is though. Can't say on the sources
I loved Willie Deane's game. He was the best inside/outside guard Keady ever had. Those were some really lean years though for Purdue (John Allison was our starting 5 if I'm not mistaken....ouch).
I remember WD lit up L'ville in a game in Indy when L'ville was highly ranked. I don't think Keady knew what to do with a guard like him. The offense should have gone through him on every trip.
When referring to Dakota, you were taking the cumulative improvement over 4 years from 32 to 47%. What would have been more accurate would be to compare the improvement between his Fr and So years.
Same thing with PJ. He was a reliable 3 pt shooter as a Sr but I don't recall where he was as a Fr and So. Unfortunately for PJ, teams started limiting his looks from 3 which really hurt his % but that's also when Painter started playing Eastern a lot more since he was willing to trade everything else Eastern did well in exchange for PJ getting a couple contested looks.
Your memory might be falling you a bit. Every time we had the ball, it went through Willy's hands. Keady knew exactly what to do with him, and we won a ton of games we shouldn't have, given the overall talent of those teams.
For PJ, that was his FR to So year improvement. So you continue to be wrong.
Your original point was that a player can't make dramatic improvements in shooting. You didn't say over a 6-month period. Don't change your premise just so you won't be wrong. It's too late for that.
Actually.....he did say over a 6 month period, he said in one offseason.
However, that being said, PJ had a pretty amazing improvement from fresh to soph, so it's definitely possible.
I never said guys don't improve. What I said was that you don't typically see a drastic improvement in one offseason. And when I say drastic, I mean a 25-30% improvement in shooting %. That's rare.
At a minimum, i think a shooter should improve 7-10% over the course of the offseason, especially between their Fr and So years.
I have no idea the average college player shooting 30% on the perimeter could improve to 39& behind the arc and 45% in midrange with a confidence limit of 95%. I do know that a person could make the shot look good almost all the time with the right amount of instruction, work and attention to detail, but confidence is a variable that is hard to measure and it does affect shooting.
Bingo. Confidence is a variable that is hard to measure and it does effect shooting couldn’t be more right. Now that confidence is back and hours among hours have been spent working on it and tweaking it a little also knowing you gonna play more you cannot imagine how the mind changes. Having confidence changes everything and that is what I’m seeing out of my son.
Confidence is a battle all or almost all struggle with at some time. It is hard to get in a groove with limited minutes...it just is.
You are correct sir even painter made the reference to that in an article I read about that some months ago. Why this off season has been so great for my son bcuz he has had the time to work on it. The NBA gave him good feed back and he’s taken their advice and worked on it but they also said don’t let that hinder you and now I see a kid with great confidence in himself shooting the ball as well as shooting FTs bcuz he’s he wants to get better at everything he does not just shooting the ball every aspect of his game. Read the article that was posted it really gives you a glimpse of what he’s been doing this off season.
I think Nojel and Carsen will be one of the most feared guard tandems in the BIG this year. Looking forward to this combo taking the BIG by storm.
I’m looking forward to watching them play together.
