Barnes believes Biggie is the best power forward in college basketball and that his game is better suited for NBA. Sounds like their camp is determined to make the move out of WL. Biggie is 'insisting that the NBA draft is more than just getting feedback'. Looking like the Boilers could be down to 8 and some walkons.
Biggie and Barnes
- Thread starter paintball1979
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Saw the Barnes comment and I admit it did make me pause a bit on my "he isn't going anywhere" position. I still think he will be back but I'm not as confident as I was before the invite and the comments. I don't believe he is a 1st rounder nor do any of the mock drafts I have seen. However, if he is willing to go if he is a 2nd rounder or free agent non-draftee then that changes the equation. I never dreamed he would leave if he wasn't a 1st round pick, but I'm wavering on that thought.
He is doing what any good agent would do and it has nothing to do with any specific desire to leave West Lafayette. If they can sell Caleb as a first rounder then he should go and we should all be happy for him.
I was a little surprised that he got invited to the camp given where he was projected in the mock drafts but it hurts absolutely nothing for him to take a shot and this is why. I think it would be a mistake for him to go unless they think he will be drafted in the first round but they should fully pursue that goal.
I was a little surprised that he got invited to the camp given where he was projected in the mock drafts but it hurts absolutely nothing for him to take a shot and this is why. I think it would be a mistake for him to go unless they think he will be drafted in the first round but they should fully pursue that goal.
The invites come from polling each NBA GM and who they want to see and scout in person. Biggie getting an invite means more than just a few GM's want to see how Biggir does at the combine. I think he'll probably be exposed a bit by the more athletic wings. He is going to have to guard guys like Draymind Green and right now he isn't suited to that right now. Another year of conditioning and work on his later skills, and he is a hands down first round pick.
I said from the beginning that Matt needed to cut back Caleb's minutes. I thought he was just playing extra until they got into conference. Caleb is a very talented player, but he was fourth best on the team. At 18 that is a great complement. There are many situations where he had to adapt. He played very well at PF, but AJ would have played much better. In doing so, we would have given more minutes to Haas (I am talking 3-4 minutes per half). People questioned me at the time, but in hindsight it would have been much better for Haas, AJ and Purdue. The only question is Caleb. IMO, for his long term future Caleb should have been brought along slower. This is the year for Caleb to work together with Haas and Caleb would have had more insight in seeing how AJ played with Haas. It is still a learning curb for Caleb. However this year with Caleb and Haas working the high low, Edwards cutting to the basket and PJ, Mathis and Cline popping the 3's we have an excellent chance to win the title. More so, I think that if we do well this year that Caleb and Edwards will stay an extra year to be National Champs. At that point, Caleb will be a lottery pick. If he goes early next year, a lot of good prospects lose it sitting on the bench and never develop like those players who stay longer in College. Caleb don't go for the short term money!
best power forward in college ball? i like caleb but he sure was not the best 4 in college. he still needs a lot of work on defense,especially foot speed. he got swatted way too many times underneath, too many turn overs, fell in love at times with the 3. great rebounder , inconsistent scorer, we were a better team against certain lineups with him on the bench. i know he wants the nba but not sure he is ready but no matter what we think, if the nba calls he is gone.
A. If anything, Swanigan should have played more minutes last season rather than less, especially in the loss to Little Rock. Not only does the kid have as much or more talent than anyone on the team, he is also unafraid of the moment. We lost that game in large part due to nobody wanting the ball at critical moments of the game, and Biggie will never shy away from anything.
B. I don't buy the argument that kids impair their development by playing professionally. If the kid has maturity, and Caleb certainly seems to be all business, playing every day against superior competition can do nothing but make you better. Those prospects you mention either were not mature enough to handle the daily grind of the NBA, or simply didn't have the talent to stay in the league.
I certainly hope he stays at Purdue rather than go as a 2nd rounder, but why not go if some team is willing to take him?
I watched the interview and CS was stating that he would be okay with being a 2nd round pick (if he can "fill a need") and/or playing in the NBDL next season, if need be. With comments like that, it almost seems to be a certainty that IF he returns, next season will be his last at Purdue.
Everything he has done has been about getting to the NBA, and getting there as soon as possible...getting an invite to the combine was a coup and may make the difference, as there is no concern as to whether or not he is drafted in the first round. I have heard from at least three very credible sources that it is 50/50 at best that he returns...if he does well at the combine, he is definitely gone.
For what it is worth...the lack of playing time in the UALR game is very much a consideration as well.
I think the initial stance was to leave once he was a first-round guaranteed pick...that stance definitely changed over the course of the season, and that UALR game changed it even more.
At this point, I will be more surprised if he returns than if he were to leave, and even if he did return, it is not with the same mindset with which he arrived which may not be beneficial for him and his advisor(s), nor for Purdue.
IMO, it's clear right now that he cares more about playing in the NBA than making Purdue a better team next season, even if he won't admit it.
I totally agree..I don't think anybody would deny it at this point even, as Caleb and Roosevelt have gone out of their way actually to make that pretty clear.
The shame of it is that he is a really good kid and a really talented player...that could have helped Purdue at the same time helping himself...like say, that was the initial plan I think, but things went wrong at some point during the year (as it was well-known that Barnes was not happy) and it was capped off with the UALR debacle.
Like say, it will be a huge blow if he does indeed leave...and a bigger blow potentially to recruiting moving forward...but I am not sold that his returning necessarily ensures that things go well next year either.
On this board it was questioned often if he was the best 4 on the team.
I think the only question here is what is what is he willing to accept as a worst case scenario. If he doesn't care where he is drafted he may be gone regardless. My rule of thumb is you go if you are reasonably certain you are a first rounder but if someone doesn't really care for college and playing overseas for decent money is good for them then they will leave noatter what. Can't see him going first round so we will see which category he is in.
If he goes he goes. He was an awesome rebounder but it was really the only thing he was good at last season. Would probably be much better if he came back because he finally started to become a decent option in the post when he wasn't on the perimeter shooting 3's at a 28% clip. If he was pissed off about not playing a ton against ALR then he needs to look in the mirror. It's the NCAA Tournament and Purdue was trying to win a game, not keep him on the floor for his ego in spite of his sometimes questionable decisions. That was what he got all regular season for.
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Maybe not, but we probably fall from a borderline top 25 team to a borderline NCAA team without him.
Have to disagree on the point regarding the UALR matter...that had nothing to do with needing to look in the mirror...that was strictly a coach's decision, and a really bad one at that. His performance in that game did not dictate him not being on the floor, never mind it had not been an issue for the course of an entire season and only in that game did Painter make the decision to play small so as to try to match up with UALR for whatever reason (despite it failing miserably).
I am beginning to feel more and more like he is in the category that you alluded to in your other post where even playing overseas while getting paid to do so may be a more appealing or attractive option. Like say, the mindset that existed when he committed to Purdue has changed dramatically with respect to when he was looking to leave...there are multiple things that played into that certainly, but I know for certain that the UALR debacle has factored into it as well.
He gone. Sad thing is I think we go farther in the tourney last year with smotherman. Wish we would have never signed this deal with the devil. Only worried about himself from day 1.
That is not true...or fair...he was by far the hardest working individual on that team from the day that he stepped on campus, and remains so for that matter...and he was a very unselfish player, wanted the team to succeed while having success individually, and he is a good kid...he certainly came to Purdue with a plan, but it was not at all a case of him worrying only about himself from day 1...not for him at least, maybe for Roosevelt (and I don't even know if that is true), but not for him.
Barnes is delusional...but, he has been out of touch with reality on several matters seemingly with respect to Biggie and his future. Not only was he not the best power forward in college basketball, but far better power forwards have already made the decision to return next year and improve their draft position in light of it.
This ultimately does not end well regardless of how it plays out...as Barnes is on a mission, and unfortunately, he is directing Biggie.
But many people on here have been screaming for MP to bring in one-and-done players. What you just described is exactly what makes them one-and done players. They want to be in the NBA ASAP. Period.
Okay, I wasn't one of them so I'm not sure why you are directing this towards me other than you don't seem to like when people question things about the program, which I do in many of my posts.
There has not been a ton of outcry for bringing in one-and-done guys...better players certainly, and better players more consistently certainly, but no specific outcry for one-and-done guys. If they happen to be one-and-done caliber (and this is the lone guy that Painter has that qualifies, and only because he does not care about when/where he is drafted, or even if he is perhaps...not because he was so good that he clearly has nothing to gain by playing another year of college basketball), then Purdue needs to maximize that skills that the player(s) provide...but Purdue is never going to be a destination of choice for legitimate one-and-done caliber guys, never mind consistently one...this is a unique situation, a very unique one at that...it offered a great upside at the time that he committed and during his time there, but there are ramifications certainly if he does indeed leave after a year...no way was Purdue/Painter prepared for his leaving after this year.
Not only that, but they become a team that is lacking depth in both the frontcourt and the backcourt potentially, never mind a team that is lacking athleticism to a significant degree.
What more did Barnes want Matt to do with Biggie? He let him play major minutes when he was a turnover machine and stuck with him in games where time on the bench might have improved our chances of winning.
This whole situation seems crazy to me. I honestly could see him being a 1st round pick after next season or two season but it seems he is willing to risk a 2nd round/no pick just to get out of here. What happened? Is money an issue for him? Does he hate someone on the team? Does Barnes hate Painter now? People on here keep saying trust in Barnes blah blah blah. I don't. Leaving school right now seems like a ridiculous choice UNLESS 2 or 3 teams tell Biggie that they will draft him in the 1st round this year after the combine.
This whole situation seems crazy to me. I honestly could see him being a 1st round pick after next season or two season but it seems he is willing to risk a 2nd round/no pick just to get out of here. What happened? Is money an issue for him? Does he hate someone on the team? Does Barnes hate Painter now? People on here keep saying trust in Barnes blah blah blah. I don't. Leaving school right now seems like a ridiculous choice UNLESS 2 or 3 teams tell Biggie that they will draft him in the 1st round this year after the combine.
Yep.....not close to ready. But who knows what some team might tell him.
I do applaud Barnes for his salesmanship though.
MP played him a ton of minutes....even though CS was a turnover machine.
Hey when Biggie came to Purdue it was an unexpected gift. He has given us a pretty good year. Hopefully he will give us one more but we all knew he was here to get ready to make a living. If it happens now it will be a loss to the team but he can't be faulted it the payday is now instead of later.
hopefully Painter is trying to get someone coming in for 2016/2017 with some size, in case Swanigan goes, wouldn't hurt to have another big anyhow
I love Biggie's work ethic and dedication to his craft.
What I don't love is how it seems you'd never know he plays for Purdue basketball if you never knew him.
Not sure that makes much sense but guys like Vince, PJT, Cline & Basil I feel really love playing at Purdue and representing this university. I get that Biggie has had his goals for the NBA but I just never got the impression that he enjoys going to school here or playing for Purdue. That probably comes with the business like approach he has towards things and that's fine, but it's odd seeing his teammates all tweeting out and advertising the Purdue Day of Giving while his Twitter was silent. Or after the season how each guy posted a picture with a nice, heartfelt message to the fans saying they would be back next year. Just little things like that. I know social media is an odd way to judge his attitude toward Purdue, but stuff like that is telling now a days. I probably feel this way because I'm a college basketball fan and a student, so the whole "pride for your school" means something to me. But I just don't think Biggie is wired that way & that's OK.
I hope he is back for another year because he can dominate next season and he would make us a really good team.
But if he goes I'll have no ill-will toward the kid. This whole process has been a business decision and this would be just another step in that process.
What I don't love is how it seems you'd never know he plays for Purdue basketball if you never knew him.
Not sure that makes much sense but guys like Vince, PJT, Cline & Basil I feel really love playing at Purdue and representing this university. I get that Biggie has had his goals for the NBA but I just never got the impression that he enjoys going to school here or playing for Purdue. That probably comes with the business like approach he has towards things and that's fine, but it's odd seeing his teammates all tweeting out and advertising the Purdue Day of Giving while his Twitter was silent. Or after the season how each guy posted a picture with a nice, heartfelt message to the fans saying they would be back next year. Just little things like that. I know social media is an odd way to judge his attitude toward Purdue, but stuff like that is telling now a days. I probably feel this way because I'm a college basketball fan and a student, so the whole "pride for your school" means something to me. But I just don't think Biggie is wired that way & that's OK.
I hope he is back for another year because he can dominate next season and he would make us a really good team.
But if he goes I'll have no ill-will toward the kid. This whole process has been a business decision and this would be just another step in that process.
FYI, typically 60+ players are invited to the combine. While it does mean something, it's not THAT exclusive of an invite.
Agreed that it really isn't that exclusive if you are only thinking about the 30 guys that will get picked in the first round. What I'm very surprised about is the comments by he and Barnes that suggest he doesn't need to be a 1st round pick in order to declare. I admit I was so sure he was coming back because I was assuming that he wouldn't leave unless he was going in the 1st round. Unless he really explodes at the combine that doesn't seem likely.
Biggie has been a great asset for our team and our practices. His effort has he is helped develop a number of our players, just like their effort helped him.
While people have correctly highlighted that he is not a 1st round pick at this point, they were also correct in stating that Barne's job is to portray him that way even if he thinks otherwise. As he himself stated, they want to realistic evaluation and that won't happen unless they take it very seriously.
While I personally think that Biggie and our team would benefit from him returning for another 1-2 years, we are all very well aware of his family situation out west. I doubt one of us could begrudge him going if we knew the decision was based on helping his family. Heck, I would seriously think long and hard myself - he just has to look at the facts and ask himself what is best for everyone in the long-run (Going now or when he is clearly a 1st round draft pick.) I think the latter would help everyone more, but . . I am sitting in the bleacher seats too.
If he decides that's best for him and his family, I respect that decision, and wish him nothing but the best. If he comes back, I know he will set an example in the training and practices for others to follow.
Ultimately, we and our program are better served by showing the class and legitimate concern for a kid and his family which have gone through a tremendous amount of pain and effort to turn things around. That would also underscore the type of program/family which awaits future recruits.
Either way, . . I am glad he decided to come to Purdue and he will always be remembered respectfully. BOILER UP !
While people have correctly highlighted that he is not a 1st round pick at this point, they were also correct in stating that Barne's job is to portray him that way even if he thinks otherwise. As he himself stated, they want to realistic evaluation and that won't happen unless they take it very seriously.
While I personally think that Biggie and our team would benefit from him returning for another 1-2 years, we are all very well aware of his family situation out west. I doubt one of us could begrudge him going if we knew the decision was based on helping his family. Heck, I would seriously think long and hard myself - he just has to look at the facts and ask himself what is best for everyone in the long-run (Going now or when he is clearly a 1st round draft pick.) I think the latter would help everyone more, but . . I am sitting in the bleacher seats too.
If he decides that's best for him and his family, I respect that decision, and wish him nothing but the best. If he comes back, I know he will set an example in the training and practices for others to follow.
Ultimately, we and our program are better served by showing the class and legitimate concern for a kid and his family which have gone through a tremendous amount of pain and effort to turn things around. That would also underscore the type of program/family which awaits future recruits.
Either way, . . I am glad he decided to come to Purdue and he will always be remembered respectfully. BOILER UP !
Also, not every actual legit prospect participates in this (i.e. not sure how the foreign players are represented in this). And there will also be people who participate that are planning on coming back probably too.
"While people have correctly highlighted that he is not a 1st round pick at this point, they were also correct in stating that Barne's job is to portray him that way even if he thinks otherwise. As he himself stated, they want to realistic evaluation and that won't happen unless they take it very seriously."
That is the key. If and only IF the combine says he is a 1st rounder will he go. So we will see.
That is the key. If and only IF the combine says he is a 1st rounder will he go. So we will see.
Looking at this as purely a business decision, the feedback from the NBA is only one half of the equation. The other half of the equation is what opportunity to improve his draft stock do Biggie and RB see coming back and playing for Purdue in 2016-17. There is a good chance the advice from the NBA scouts will be in conflict with his role on this Purdue team. Simply put, I see him splitting time between the 4 and 5 by necessity. The NBA sees him as a 4. We know one of the main reasons he flipped to Purdue was the presence of AJ and Haas all but guaranteed he would not be stuck playing under the basket. In some regard, I think Painter's best move to keep Biggie might would be to go out and sign a back-up caliber center, even if only a 1 year transfer. Looks like he's got the scholly to burn.. might as well use it to help secure your #1 "recruit".
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