B1G Expansion? How about this wild idea...

[Bob Sienicki]

Two parts... first part old news, 2nd part a completely off-the-wall suggestion...

1) University of Colorado
a) brings in more than 4.7 million more TV sets,
b) is a natural rival for Nebraska
c) is an AAU member (important, but not critical), and
d) borders Nebraska (I know, trivial, but there is still a crowd that insists that all schools in the B1G come from bordering states...)

Okay, now the fun part...

2) University of Toronto (!!!)
a) yes, they have American football and basketball (M & W),
b) they overlap virtually all B1G sports for both men & women, and they are really good at them,
c) at the very LEAST, they would bring in over 7.5 million new TV sets, if not the entire population of Canada - around 35 million,
d) they are rated the 22nd most prestigious university in the world,
e) they have over 59,000 students,
f) they are well within the existing B1G footprint, just neighbors now,
g) they are also members of the prestigious AAU (not just US universities!), and
h) with CU, would keep Purdue in the B1G West with a fighting chance to win the West in football every now and then.

Interesting, huh? Thoughts???

 

[nat100]

Toronto has been discussed for a decade or better. I forget what the snag is. Athletic schollies?

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

Toronto has been discussed for a decade or better. I forget what the snag is. Athletic schollies?

More than likely it is facilities...although the B1G could help with that with a loan to improve football and basketball. There are better football facilities in Texas high school than Toronto has for their football program. It would be like forcing a lower 1AA team to play in the B1G. If they transitioned they over the course of 5 years with playing 2 conference teams the first year and adding 1-2 more every season to bolster their numbers might work.

 

[TheBoris]

Toronto has been discussed for a decade or better. I forget what the snag is. Athletic schollies?

Canadian scholarships are limited to the revenue generated by any given sport. If the football program ends up net +$4,000 for the year, then they can give out $4,000 in scholies.

 

[takedownboiler]

I'd imagine if B1G ftball teams started to play up there. The Canadian fans will come and support. Also you'd think with that being the case. The university would change up some policies for scholarships.

 

[BoilerBulldog]

I'd imagine if B1G ftball teams started to play up there. The Canadian fans will come and support. Also you'd think with that being the case. The university would change up some policies for scholarships.

I don't believe it is only a university policy. But I believe I've heard it's under review.

 

[Indy_Rider]

I still kind of like the Colorado State idea instead of raiding another major conference. Should bring in the market just like CU would.

 

[njm8845]

I still kind of like the Colorado State idea instead of raiding another major conference. Should bring in the market just like CU would.

Don't we all agree that the B10 is better than Colorado State? Why do people always stretch for these expansion ideas?

The B10 is the oldest conference, makes the most money, and is the most academically prestigious of the Power 5. We as a conference are in an awfully good position. We don't have to expand. But if we do, it should be a home run. That most likely home runs right now appear to be Oklahoma/Virginia. But everything can change in the next decade. That's why you don't roll the dice on a CSU/Cincy/Col/Pitt/WVU/etc.

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

Don't we all agree that the B10 is better than Colorado State? Why do people always stretch for these expansion ideas?

The B10 is the oldest conference, makes the most money, and is the most academically prestigious of the Power 5. We as a conference are in an awfully good position. We don't have to expand. But if we do, it should be a home run. That most likely home runs right now appear to be Oklahoma/Virginia. But everything can change in the next decade. That's why you don't roll the dice on a CSU/Cincy/Col/Pitt/WVU/etc.

Agree with you on this aspect. The B1G doesn't have to settle for less than stellar cohorts to bring in....which is why I was pissed at the addition of Rutgers who brings ZERO to the table as an athletic institution beyond the NJ/NY market. Georgia Tech is a great academic institution with on par athletics with the middle of the pack B1G schools like Purdue, Illinois, Minnesota, and Iowa. They would also create a footprint in the the Southeastern markets, specifically Atlanta. I think the only other likely addition would then be Texas as they will be looking for a conference sooner rather than later and probably view themselves academically superior to what the SEC and ACC can offer while also not wanting to join the Pac 12. That leaves them becoming an independent (which I believe the NCAA will inevitably force the football programs to join a conference full time to be a part of the playoff picture) or joining the B1G where they would fit academically and athletically.

If the B1G could add Georgia Tech and Texas, you are talking about the addition of the 10th largest TV market in Atlanta and the 39th largest in Austin. But, you would really be adding aspects of Dallas-Fort Worth (5), Houston (8), and San Antonio (31) with the footprint that the University of Texas has within the state. The addition of those two schools would suffice for the academic prowess and the athletic prowess along with the generated TV revenue. THOSE would be the homerun additions to the conference that every one could get behind (and leave Purdue in the West division).

 

[Wolegib]

I have a totally New idea! Add two teams and divide into two divisions for every sport! Make the basketball tournament like the football championship! With the east champion meeting the west champion! Make the teams play each team twice within their division and once outside! That would be 22 conference games! If the BiG 10 really wants to expand and improve RPI and ratings, by adding two great teams would do both and negate the need to play a lot of non-conference games! And do the same for all other sports like baseball and golf etc! What good is dividing into two divisions if it's only for one sport?

 

[ghostoffatjack]

Big dog schools like Texas and others would probably have to secretly contact the B1G first to start the ball rolling and not the other way around, jmo!

 

[TheBoris]

Big dog schools like Texas and others would probably have to secretly contact the B1G first to start the ball rolling and not the other way around, jmo!

I believe they've been talking to each other for years. Both Texas and Oklahoma refuse to extend their current B12 GOR. When it expires, both will be moving somewhere.

 

[Wolegib]

Explain to me again if Texas is going to join the BIG 10 , what is going to become of its Longhorn network, and its 20 year deal. Do you believe Texas would share its revenues with the other BIG 10 schools? Would Texas receive an equal portion of the BIG 10 Network revenue and Bowl games? If Texas were allowed to keep its Longhorn network deal, don't you believe that would be a tremendous competitive and monetary advantage. and you'd still welcome them and want to add them?

 

[TheBoris]

Explain to me again if Texas is going to join the BIG 10 , what is going to become of its Longhorn network, and its 20 year deal. Do you believe Texas would share its revenues with the other BIG 10 schools? Would Texas receive an equal portion of the BIG 10 Network revenue and Bowl games? If Texas were allowed to keep its Longhorn network deal, don't you believe that would be a tremendous competitive and monetary advantage. and you'd still welcome them and want to add them?

The Longhorn Network is a flop. ESPN has lost $48 million on it in six years and that's gonna get worse now that it no longer has national distribution. But if the Horns want to keep it anyway, then they'd have the same deal that the B1G offered ND when they were in a mating dance in 1999: keep the TV contract, pool the revenue with other B1G revenue and split it all equally with the other schools in the conference.

https://tvanswerman.com/2017/05/18/...rn-network-from-national-channel-to-regional/

 

[TheBoris]

Now that I think over the LHN and the fact that it is no longer available to Texas fans outside of the state of Texas, UT now has additional incentive to join the Big Ten. UT fans outside the state now have no means to watch the Horns' tier three sports events. But if they fold the LHN and put their tier 3 content on the BTN, which is broadcast nationally, all of their out-of-state fans will again have access to it.

 

[jsglenn4]

If the conference is looking to balance the expansion, I suspect they'll have to look outside the current ACC schools. The buyout is in excess of $50M. The only schools to vote against that proposal were Florida State and Maryland (for obvious reasons). Maryland was able to negotiate that down to about $35M because they were leaving immediately. FSU appears to be the only remaining school that wanted to keep their options open.

IF that proves to be the case, who does that leave in the east as an attractive candidate to balance Texas?

 

[BoilerBulldog]

Explain to me again if Texas is going to join the BIG 10 , what is going to become of its Longhorn network, and its 20 year deal. Do you believe Texas would share its revenues with the other BIG 10 schools? Would Texas receive an equal portion of the BIG 10 Network revenue and Bowl games? If Texas were allowed to keep its Longhorn network deal, don't you believe that would be a tremendous competitive and monetary advantage. and you'd still welcome them and want to add them?

Longhorn network is a dog.

The Longhorn Network is a flop. ESPN has lost $48 million on it in six years and that's gonna get worse now that it no longer has national distribution. But if the Horns want to keep it anyway, then they'd have the same deal that the B1G offered ND when they were in a mating dance in 1999: keep the TV contract, pool the revenue with other B1G revenue and split it all equally with the other schools in the conference.

https://tvanswerman.com/2017/05/18/...rn-network-from-national-channel-to-regional/

This. +1000.

 

[Wolegib]

Texas signed a 20 year deal with ESPN. Sure, ESPN is losing money on the deal, but u of Texas is not. Do you truly believe U of Texas is going to be willing to share that deal with 15 other siblings? Sure the longhorn network is a dog compared to the BiG 10 network. The BIG 10 network is the best around !

You mention the Big 10 made an offer to ND about allowing them to keep their TV contract and just split up the profits among the other BIG 10 schools. That went over like a lead balloon with ND and is probably one of the main reasons they didn't join the BIG 10. The ACC didn't make those demands. If ND was unwilling to share, I doubt Texas would be willing to share either.

I know you'd love to have Texas as part of the BIG 10! As would the media. But I highly doubt Texas would be willing to join on your terms of sharing their current revenue.

And so what if ESPN is losing money. Do you think Texas cares? They have 14 more years of a very lucrative contract. They aren't giving that up just for the privilege of being in the same conference with Purdue. And Iowa. And they can play OSU And Mich without having to join the BIG10 conference

 

[ghostoffatjack]

Texas signed a 20 year deal with ESPN. Sure, ESPN is losing money on the deal, but u of Texas is not. Do you truly believe U of Texas is going to be willing to share that deal with 15 other siblings? Sure the longhorn network is a dog compared to the BiG 10 network. The BIG 10 network is the best around !

You mention the Big 10 made an offer to ND about allowing them to keep their TV contract and just split up the profits among the other BIG 10 schools. That went over like a lead balloon with ND and is probably one of the main reasons they didn't join the BIG 10. The ACC didn't make those demands. If ND was unwilling to share, I doubt Texas would be willing to share either.

I know you'd love to have Texas as part of the BIG 10! As would the media. But I highly doubt Texas would be willing to join on your terms of sharing their current revenue.

And so what if ESPN is losing money. Do you think Texas cares? They have 14 more years of a very lucrative contract. They aren't giving that up just for the privilege of being in the same conference with Purdue. And Iowa. And they can play OSU And Mich without having to join the BIG10 conference

What is the annual payout to the B1G schools right now? If it is higher than $20 million then you would have your answer to why since it would be larger than what the ESPN contact pays them! Bigger question would be their traveling partner school OU or one of the other schools in the Big 12 from Texas!

 

[TheBoris]

Texas signed a 20 year deal with ESPN. Sure, ESPN is losing money on the deal, but u of Texas is not. Do you truly believe U of Texas is going to be willing to share that deal with 15 other siblings? Sure the longhorn network is a dog compared to the BiG 10 network. The BIG 10 network is the best around !

You mention the Big 10 made an offer to ND about allowing them to keep their TV contract and just split up the profits among the other BIG 10 schools. That went over like a lead balloon with ND and is probably one of the main reasons they didn't join the BIG 10. The ACC didn't make those demands. If ND was unwilling to share, I doubt Texas would be willing to share either.

I know you'd love to have Texas as part of the BIG 10! As would the media. But I highly doubt Texas would be willing to join on your terms of sharing their current revenue.

And so what if ESPN is losing money. Do you think Texas cares? They have 14 more years of a very lucrative contract. They aren't giving that up just for the privilege of being in the same conference with Purdue. And Iowa. And they can play OSU And Mich without having to join the BIG10 conference

I'm not sure what it takes to get something into your head. If Texas joined the B1G, their share of BTN revenue would be pretty much the same as what they're getting now from the LHN.

Regarding ND, their NBC contract was not the reason that they didn't join the B1G. This was stated publicly. The overwhelming reason was their desire to remain independent in football.

 

[Wolegib]

why did ND want to remain an independent in football ? it's called not having to share their $$$$ from TV contracts and Bowl games with 13-15 other schools. if they were willing to share, they would have had their football team also join the ACC. there really is no reason for ND to remain an independent in football other than keeping all of their revenue and not sharing.

and the article below is why I am so stubborn in agreeing with you. it states Texas brings in 70% of the revenue from the longhorn network. and they also bring in additional revenue as part of the BIG 12 conference. their existing deals are currently bringing in more money than they would if they joined the BIG 10.

On the other hand, the other BIG 12 teams are making squat and would love to jump at the opportunity to join the BIG 10. it would make $$$$$ sense for OK or ISU or Ok st or Kan etc to join the BIG 10. They would al l realize a huge increase in revenue.

But my point has been while OK would receive more revenue as part of the BIG 10, than being part of the BIG 12, I don't see a significant revenue increase coming to the BIG 10 by their addition. In essence, OK would make a larger amount of revenue if the joined the BIG 10, but Purdue's piece of the BIG 10 revenue pie would remain about the same. Adding Ok is not going to really do anything financially for Purdue ,

I don't see a very big increase in the BIG 10 network market to generate a huge payout for the current existing teams. Overall revenue would increase. But if you're adding Ok, then you'd also be adding some other team. instead of dividing the revenue pot by 14, you'd be dividing it by 16. And depending on who that second team is, there is the possibility that when divided by 16, the revenue given out to each school could actually be less. In order for it to be more and actually benefit Purdue , you'd have to add two big market schools. and if Texas says no, then you're screwed.

if you added Kansas and K State, they would add very little to the overall pot and would become just two more mouths to feed.

That's why I say Purdue is better off if the BIG 10 remained at 14 schools. In order for adding OK to the BIG to make financial sense, you need to also add a big market school. and I don't see Texas wanting to join the BIG 10 anytime soon..

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2015/6/5/8733131/texas-longhorn-network-money-revenue

 

[njm8845]

I believe they've been talking to each other for years. Both Texas and Oklahoma refuse to extend their current B12 GOR. When it expires, both will be moving somewhere.

When does it expire?

I think we've discussed this before, but here goes again:

While on paper Texas is the biggest fish in the market, I'm slow to really want them in the b10 due to their arrogance and history of causing discord in whatever conference they're in.

 

[njm8845]

Agree with you on this aspect. The B1G doesn't have to settle for less than stellar cohorts to bring in....which is why I was pissed at the addition of Rutgers who brings ZERO to the table as an athletic institution beyond the NJ/NY market. Georgia Tech is a great academic institution with on par athletics with the middle of the pack B1G schools like Purdue, Illinois, Minnesota, and Iowa. They would also create a footprint in the the Southeastern markets, specifically Atlanta. I think the only other likely addition would then be Texas as they will be looking for a conference sooner rather than later and probably view themselves academically superior to what the SEC and ACC can offer while also not wanting to join the Pac 12. That leaves them becoming an independent (which I believe the NCAA will inevitably force the football programs to join a conference full time to be a part of the playoff picture) or joining the B1G where they would fit academically and athletically.

If the B1G could add Georgia Tech and Texas, you are talking about the addition of the 10th largest TV market in Atlanta and the 39th largest in Austin. But, you would really be adding aspects of Dallas-Fort Worth (5), Houston (8), and San Antonio (31) with the footprint that the University of Texas has within the state. The addition of those two schools would suffice for the academic prowess and the athletic prowess along with the generated TV revenue. THOSE would be the homerun additions to the conference that every one could get behind (and leave Purdue in the West division).

Rutgers brought a lot to the b10. I saw a figure that Rutgers' portion of tv revenue generates over $5M for each b10 school. Can't find the link now.

Having that significant increase in income by locking up two of the biggest markets in the country (D.C. And NYC) allows the b10 to get more lucrative contracts. This in turn makes the b10 more attractive to potential schools like Texas.

Plus, I thought you'd like Rutgers because it's a school Purdue can beat. Haven't you advocated that in another thread?

 

[TheBoris]

When does it expire?

I think we've discussed this before, but here goes again:

While on paper Texas is the biggest fish in the market, I'm slow to really want them in the b10 due to their arrogance and history of causing discord in whatever conference they're in.

Expires in 2025.

http://www.cbssports.com/college-fo...grant-of-rights-extension-ranking-candidates/

 

[tweener8292]

T

Agree with you on this aspect. The B1G doesn't have to settle for less than stellar cohorts to bring in....which is why I was pissed at the addition of Rutgers who brings ZERO to the table as an athletic institution beyond the NJ/NY market. Georgia Tech is a great academic institution with on par athletics with the middle of the pack B1G schools like Purdue, Illinois, Minnesota, and Iowa. They would also create a footprint in the the Southeastern markets, specifically Atlanta. I think the only other likely addition would then be Texas as they will be looking for a conference sooner rather than later and probably view themselves academically superior to what the SEC and ACC can offer while also not wanting to join the Pac 12. That leaves them becoming an independent (which I believe the NCAA will inevitably force the football programs to join a conference full time to be a part of the playoff picture) or joining the B1G where they would fit academically and athletically.

If the B1G could add Georgia Tech and Texas, you are talking about the addition of the 10th largest TV market in Atlanta and the 39th largest in Austin. But, you would really be adding aspects of Dallas-Fort Worth (5), Houston (8), and San Antonio (31) with the footprint that the University of Texas has within the state. The addition of those two schools would suffice for the academic prowess and the athletic prowess along with the generated TV revenue. THOSE would be the homerun additions to the conference that every one could get behind (and leave Purdue in the West division).

The University of Texas attitude would be a major turnoff, plus what would they do with the Longhorn Network? If you are adding Texas, go for Oklahoma as well. Why not?

 

[TheBoris]

T


The University of Texas attitude would be a major turnoff, plus what would they do with the Longhorn Network? If you are adding Texas, go for Oklahoma as well. Why not?

Tweener, OU + UT is the plan.

 

[njm8845]

Tweener, OU + UT is the plan.

Who's plan? Sounds like everyone assumes Texas will not move. OU is different story.

 

[TheBoris]

Who's plan? Sounds like everyone assumes Texas will not move. OU is different story.

Everyone? Hmmm...

http://www.scout.com/college/oklaho...ng/16712587-orangelboods-insider-ou-ut-to-b1g

 

[njm8845]

Everyone? Hmmm...

http://www.scout.com/college/oklaho...ng/16712587-orangelboods-insider-ou-ut-to-b1g

I think a link to an OU message board quoting a UT guy who heard from an insider qualifies as gossip.

Plus, did you even read the thread? Most on there are skeptical of b10/UT link. That or they make arguments for why Texas would not be a good addition.

I trust info from frank the tank, and a few other writers. Not one guy on a message board. Look how crazy some of the ideas are in this thread.

 

[TheBoris]

I think a link to an OU message board quoting a UT guy who heard from an insider qualifies as gossip.

Plus, did you even read the thread? Most on there are skeptical of b10/UT link. That or they make arguments for why Texas would not be a good addition.

I trust info from frank the tank, and a few other writers. Not one guy on a message board. Look how crazy some of the ideas are in this thread.

You said "Sounds like everyone assumes Texas will not move." Actually, there is quite a bit of speculation that both Oklahoma and Texas are moving somewhere. Both have flatly refused to sign an extension of their GORs under any circumstances, so that is a pretty good indication that they don't plan to stay in the Big 12 when the current GOR expires.

The truth is that everyone expects Texas will move. Where they are going, that is a topic of debate.

 

[MITCH492]

The B1G doesn't (shouldn't) want anything to do with Texas. They are nothing but a blood sucking conference member. The whorns are not good team players.

 

[TheBoris]

The B1G doesn't (shouldn't) want anything to do with Texas. They are nothing but a blood sucking conference member. The whorns are not good team players.

Forthe past 50-75 years, the Whorns have been in conferences in which they set themselves up as The Princess and their conference peers said, "Uh, yeah, ok." That ain't gonna happen in the B1G. DeLoss is gone and the presidents of the conference schools (some 100 year members) aren't inclined to take instruction from a southern school that showed up yesterday.

 

[MITCH492]

Forthe past 50-75 years, the Whorns have been in conferences in which they set themselves up as The Princess and their conference peers said, "Uh, yeah, ok." That ain't gonna happen in the B1G. DeLoss is gone and the presidents of the conference schools (some 100 year members) aren't inclined to take instruction from a southern school that showed up yesterday.

Don't underestimate the Texas ego.

 

[boilerking12]

Two parts... first part old news, 2nd part a completely off-the-wall suggestion...

1) University of Colorado
a) brings in more than 4.7 million more TV sets,
b) is a natural rival for Nebraska
c) is an AAU member (important, but not critical), and
d) borders Nebraska (I know, trivial, but there is still a crowd that insists that all schools in the B1G come from bordering states...)

Okay, now the fun part...

2) University of Toronto (!!!)
a) yes, they have American football and basketball (M & W),
b) they overlap virtually all B1G sports for both men & women, and they are really good at them,
c) at the very LEAST, they would bring in over 7.5 million new TV sets, if not the entire population of Canada - around 35 million,
d) they are rated the 22nd most prestigious university in the world,
e) they have over 59,000 students,
f) they are well within the existing B1G footprint, just neighbors now,
g) they are also members of the prestigious AAU (not just US universities!), and
h) with CU, would keep Purdue in the B1G West with a fighting chance to win the West in football every now and then.

Interesting, huh? Thoughts???

I've been advocating for Virginia or Virginia Tech. VT brings a wealth of football history, although I like the UVa fit in hoops. Adds more east coast presence.