There was no competition at PG when PJ was here. PJ had to start as a sophomore because we had no one else. Nojel will be the starter during IT's first two years here.
Armaan.....My Condolences
- Thread starter BoilerGal74
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That and sophomore PJ from a physicality standpoint was much stronger than what IT will be as a freshman. Even as a freshman, PJ came in with a sturdy base and a lot more muscle on him.
And as you eluded, the personnel surrounding PJ + Painter's offenisve philosophy really masked PJ's height and lack of athleticism, and really did so all 3 years as a starter. PJ wasn't asked to be a dynamic PG at Purdue because with AJ, Biggie, and Haas commanding the post 3 consecutive years, you didn't need a dynamic PG. IT will not get that luxury as a freshman.
IT will play PG at Purdue, but that is because of his size. He is a more natural 2 guard, but his size doesn't translate to a 2 at the college level. IT undoubtedly is taller, more athletic, and a better scorer than his brother, but he doesn't have the pure PG skill set that his brother had. And at 6-0, 160 lbs, an underclassmen IT is going to struggle mightily creating his own shot as well as taking bigger, stronger defenders off the bounce, and showing a 1:30 highlight tape on the other thread of him primarily catching and shooting in an AAU game with poor close outs and defensive rotations isn't going to change that narrative. It doesn't mean he is "bad at basketball" either, it just means he has a lot of work to do in terms of getting his body ready for B10 basketball. The same kind of things are being said about Trevion Williams and what he needs to do to get into playing shape to really be an effective basketball player, yet you don't see anyone else citing that as a reason he "isn't good at basketball".
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Painter's system isn't changing, and his motion offense is built for combo guards like IT to play PG. Not a knock on PJ but he wasn't a "pure PG" as you state and regularly made his impact as a spot up shooter (IT's strength). PJ could bring the ball up the court and took good care of the ball, but IIRC Dakota and Vince typically had more assists than him. I doubt IT will start his freshman year, but he will play some, and likely get serious minutes his sophomore year as Eastern being in college for his senior year is not a foregone conclusion.
The principles of his motion offense change based on the personnel. Purdue doesn't have a dominant interior presence like they did in the years past for the ball to go through. Instead Haarms will be incorporated more in PnR situations. To run this successfully, you need a more dynamic PG who can beat his man off the dribble as well as a threat to finish at the hole. I struggle seeing a 160 lb Thompson fit that role. And FWIW I would have had the same concerns regarding PJ had he not played with a dominant center.
I can’t disagree with you about the ability of a freshman 160 lb guard driving into the middle of a BIG defense. Much will depend on who IT is playing with. IT could be a terrific facilitator and deadly outside. In any case a stronger sophomore IT may be a completely different player.
I can agree with all that and just like his brother, IT will improve dramatically year by year. The only issue I had was a poster claiming he would start as a freshman, and not only would he start as a freshman he would have taken Franklin's minutes and that's the reason why Franklin chose to go elsewhere.
Next year we might have a Junior Eastern at point, with Hunter and Sasha as experienced 2-gaurds. Gillis and IT would be freshmen just like Franklin, but they are just 3-star guards according to Rivals. Seems like there would be playing time for Franklin at point, but maybe he knows something we don't about IT... or shockingly, he just liked IU better.
Switch Newman with Franklin, but it still doesn't matter. IT plays a completely different position than Franklin. Franklin is a slashing 2 guard/wing type player. IT will be playing point guard at Purdue, he can't play off the ball, he's not big enough on either end of the floor, especially if you have another skinny guard in the lineup like Hunter. Assuming Newman comes....here is my best guess at a 3 guard/wing rotation
1: Eastern 30 mpg/IT 8 mpg/Newman 2 mpg
2: Hunter 26 mpg/Newman 12 mpg/ IT 2mpg
3: Wheeler 15 mpg (another 10-12 at the 4)/Hunter, Stefanovic, Newman rotation
Basically I think you'll see a heavy dose of a traditional 3 guard lineup with Eastern/Hunter/Newman with Hall (assuming he comes) and Haarms as your front court players. I can see certain situations/lineups with Newman coming off the bench while Purdue goes longer with Wheeler at the 3 and Hall at the 4 or vice versa. I think IT will be used exclusively as a backup to Eastern given similar minutes to the way Eastern and PJ rotated this last year (28 mpg to 12 mpg).
Anthony Cowan is listed at 6'0 170. He is probably the most complete PG in the conference when talking about offense and defense. He converted over 3 two pointers per game in conference play last year and 2.5 two poimters at a 46% clip as a true freshman. He also averaged 5+ assists per game.
Tyler Ulis is 5'9 155 and was a consensus AA as a sophomore converting 4 two pointers per game to go along with 5+ assists.
If IT was a post player, Id be concerned about his slight build. But hes not, hes a guard whose small frame allows him the quickness to get around defenders into the lane where he can finish himself or create for a teammate.
Anthony Cowan was also a top 50 recruit coveted by just about every school in the country and Ulis was a 5* McD’s AA recruited by every school in the country. I’m not saying no 6-0, 160 lb freshman can’t be a successful basketball player, I’m saying expecting IT to have a Cowan or Ulis type impact as a freshman isn’t fair to Thompson. He’s just not that caliber of a player.
Dude... big difference between Cowan and Ulis and IT. Surely you see that?
What would that difference be? Theyre the closest physical comps to IT that I can think of.
IT is a career 42% 3 point shooter on 362 attempts. He just shot 46% from 3 in his 5 AAU games. As a shooter, Im sure neither Ulis or Cowan matched up to that skillwise.
Maybe they were better dribblers/had tighter handles as prospects?
You have to stop equating stats as if it’s equal across the board. IT doesn’t possess near the ball handling or PG skills as either of those players nor is anywhere in the realm of athleticism. IT is a good shooter where his size and strength isn’t hard to overcome at the high school level. That doesn’t mean it’s going to translate at the B10 level.
Are you stating that you believe IT will be as good as Cowan and Ulis were as freshman?
Ulis averaged 5.6 points per game on .551 True Shooting % as a freshman. I think thats a pretty low bar to set for IT. I think he eclipses that point total and probabaly is better than Ulis 40% from the field. Ulis numbers dropped to 5.2 points and 36% from the field in conference play. ITs probably a bit too skilled of a shooter to fall that low % wise.
It's one thing to have a take that's way the hell out there. It's another to have every take be way the hell out there.
Tyler Ulis also played on arguably the most talented college basketball team of all time as a freshman, but I’m sure you took that into consideration right? The fact Ulis averaged 20+mpg on that team speaks volumes to how good he actually was. I will be shocked if IT averages more than 15mpg his freshman year.
You two make a great pair. I think you're way underestimating what IT will do. He's rapidly turning into my favorite recruit. Next thing you know, you guys will be bashing LUCE.!
Not underestimating what IT can do. I’m simply not buying what a clueless poster is putting down trying to equate Tyler Ulis and Anthony Cowan, two highly coveted PGs out of high school, to Isaiah Thompson simply because they are the same size. It’s like saying Isaac Haas should have the same impact as Shaq because both are 7-2. Does anyone not see how ridiculous that sounds?
That would just ruin your life wouldn't it. I don't know how IT will fair at PU...….but I would love to see this "undersized, weak, not Big Ten level, etc" Boilermaker succeed if for no other reason than to just piss you off. I'd take a million IT's over Franklins, because the kid wants to play here......period.
How about we just support the kid and hope for the best.
I hope he succeeds and then some. Again where did I ever root for him to fail? Because I don’t think he’s going to be as good as Tyler Ulis? I mean Jesus Christ how dense or butt hurt do some people get on here?
Huh? You dont think if IT starts that he will score more than 5 points per game?
IT literally just scored 14.4 ppg on the same team as Keion Brooks and TJD.
He’s not going to start on a team that already has Eastern and Hunter and potentially Newman and Hall who can play the third guard spot or the wing. If IT is starting as a true freshman it will speak volumes to the current state of the team, and that ain’t going to be pretty.
The ONLY way IT starts as a freshman is if both Nojel and Carsen are not on the team. I dont think you actually believe IT will start and are just trolling.
There it is again. Who knows how he will perform? But statements like yours are as backhanded as it gets towards IT and pretty much dooms him before he even steps on the court. You say you hope he succeeds and then some, but then say his starting would speak volumes, etc. Just hard to believe you are genuine in your sentiments......pride in being correct has brought out some ugliness.
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No, what dooms him is some idiot like mgk stating he’ll be a 4 year starter with comparisons to Anthony Cowan and Tyler Ulis. He’s putting unfair expectations on a 200 level, 3* recruit who hasn’t played a minute of college basketball who was offered by one power 5 conference school. Asking a true freshman of any caliber to come in and perform at an X amount of level to previous college greats isn’t fair. Tyler Ulis was a first team AA, a top 20 recruit, who has started multiple games in the NBA. That isn’t fair to IT. I have tempered and realistic expectations for IT and that isn’t going to change regardless of how many times rah-rah fan boys like yourself tell me.
Fine. I think we know where you stand. Let's hope CMP, the team, and IT himself have higher expectations than some of the "fans" do.
I think CMP does...…….
http://www.news-sentinel.com/sports/2018/01/08/matt-painter-to-recruits-you-come-to-purdue-to-win/
I just put him on ignore. I don't have time to read his snobbish bs.
Bab's account was created less than 2 months ago. The firsts posts he ever made were to tell everyone how awesome Evan Fitzner and Romeo Langford will be in the thread where I presented all of the facts about Romeos shooting woes.
Basically, I made an IU fan lurker so rustled he proceeded to create a fake Purdue account and has followed me around quoting all of my posts with the sole purpise of blindly disagreeing with them if they are positive towards Purdue or anything but overly positive towards Indiana.
Make no mistake about it, he is an IU troll who Ive mangaed to keep rustled for a long time.
Thompson would have a ton of other high-major offers by now, but he committed incredibly early and other schools didn't offer/put in the time to recruit him because his brother was on the team and he was such a hard Purdue lean. It's fine to be impartial, but I'd suggest stop being so dramatic and combative in every post. You are already unbearable to many.
Iowa picked up basically the exact same player as Isaiah Thompson this week. The 228th and 229th players in the composite rankings, both of whom are 5’10”, (6’0” in shoes), 165 lb point guards with reasonable, but not exceptional quickness.
https://247sports.com/Player/Joe-Toussaint-45572941/
The Iowa fans are excited too. Good luck to ya both!
https://247sports.com/Player/Joe-Toussaint-45572941/
The Iowa fans are excited too. Good luck to ya both!
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Dramatic? I’m not the idiot comparing him to Tyler Ulis or Anthony Cowan. That’s the opposite of dramatic. IT was offered only after Jeremiah Francis and Robert Phinisee committed elsewhere (two PGs Painter really wanted) and continued to recruit Tyger Campbell as well. The fact Painter wanted both Newman and Franklin in the same class (who he also offered after Phinisee committed) just reaffirms that IT isn’t going to crack the rotation as an underclassmen unless out of necessity. You can disagree with me all you want, as well as call me unbearable, but facts don’t care about your feelings. IT had two scholarship offers up until Purdue offered in September 2017.
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I just addressed this in the post above. Did you not read it? He was a hard Purdue lean and committed early. That's what he didn't/doesn't have more offers.
How can you be a hard Purdue lean when you don’t have an offer from Purdue? Painter offered Jeremiah Francis and Phinisee in the class above and only offered IT after those guys committed elsewhere? He was offered in September of 2017 and committed in January. And he still recruited Tyger as well as two other guards in his same class. Nobody else (except Miami OH and Butler) ever offered IT up until 2017. I know what you told me above, but just because you told me told me doesn’t make it right.
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