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Are we still fighting the cold war?

hunkgolden

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I feel like I've traveled back in time to 1989 based on the left's reaction to Trump's dealings with Russia. Trump's a businessman and knows at times you have to "grease" the mob bosses in New Jersey to get that casino built.
At first the left told us that Trump was a no good nationalist and now they're freaking out that he's trying to build a better relationship with the other world power. So which is it?
 
I feel like I've traveled back in time to 1989 based on the left's reaction to Trump's dealings with Russia. Trump's a businessman and knows at times you have to "grease" the mob bosses in New Jersey to get that casino built.
At first the left told us that Trump was a no good nationalist and now they're freaking out that he's trying to build a better relationship with the other world power. So which is it?
I think people were - and still are - shocked by recent actions of Russia. The seizure of the Crimean peninsula, the invasion of Ukraine, the poisoning on British soil and the attempt to influence the American election shocked me enormously. I think Mitch McConnell stated it best: The Russians are not our friends." I agree with him completely.
 
I think people were - and still are - shocked by recent actions of Russia. The seizure of the Crimean peninsula, the invasion of Ukraine, the poisoning on British soil and the attempt to influence the American election shocked me enormously. I think Mitch McConnell stated it best: The Russians are not our friends." I agree with him completely.
You still think the POTUS is a pedophile?
 
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When Obama was trusting the Russians, he was naive to do so. Now that Trump is bowing to Putin, he’s savvy. Riiiiiiiiiight.
I never thought that but I appreciate another conservative weighing in. And I'm sure you made the same statement to dems about Obama being savy and Trump being naive in their dealings with the Russians, right? Like when Obama said he would have more flexibility in dealing with Russia since its his last election.
 
I never thought that but I appreciate another conservative weighing in. And I'm sure you made the same statement to dems about Obama being savy and Trump being naive in their dealings with the Russians, right? Like when Obama said he would have more flexibility in dealing with Russia since its his last election.
I sure as shit did. Obama recognized the limits of our influence over there but was naive to trust Putin. I’m not sure Trump understands that we can’t do much of anything to dissuade Russia (or really he doesn’t understand much of anything regarding foreign relations), but his handling of Putin and public statements about his own agencies makes me believe Putin has something on him.
 
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You still think the POTUS is a pedophile?
I do not think that - what I think is that the Russians may have tricked him into something that could be disastrous if it comes out [a young woman posing as an older woman, etc] Based on what happened at Penn State and at MSU I no longer dismiss something just because I can't believe it could possibly happen.
 
I think people were - and still are - shocked by recent actions of Russia. The seizure of the Crimean peninsula, the invasion of Ukraine, the poisoning on British soil and the attempt to influence the American election shocked me enormously. I think Mitch McConnell stated it best: The Russians are not our friends." I agree with him completely.

Never thought they were friends of the USA, definitely not a true ally. That said, no reason why in certain areas of the world or on certain topics we should not be working together. Trump did not get tricked into anything, he did not agree to anything. They simply talked for a few hours, and all of this exageration that Putin dictated the entire conversation is hyperbole at this point. Trump's entire staff, to include the Pentagon, will listen to the conversation and decide where to move next.
 
Never thought they were friends of the USA, definitely not a true ally. That said, no reason why in certain areas of the world or on certain topics we should not be working together. Trump did not get tricked into anything, he did not agree to anything. They simply talked for a few hours, and all of this exageration that Putin dictated the entire conversation is hyperbole at this point. Trump's entire staff, to include the Pentagon, will listen to the conversation and decide where to move next.
How can we know if it is exaggeration or hyperbole when no one knows what was said in that room except for Putin, Trump, and 2 interpreters?
 
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...makes me believe Putin has something on him.
It would sure seem there is something, and it isn’t hookers doing their thing on a bed Obama slept in. His base would eat that up. Nothing seems to get to this guy except questioning his wealth and/or intellect. All IMO Russia could have on him would be money, and for a man who went bankrupt owning casinos, people need to think about that, he went bankrupt owning casinos, money had to be hard to get so money is what they could offer that he couldn’t refuse.
 
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Never thought they were friends of the USA, definitely not a true ally. That said, no reason why in certain areas of the world or on certain topics we should not be working together. Trump did not get tricked into anything, he did not agree to anything. They simply talked for a few hours, and all of this exageration that Putin dictated the entire conversation is hyperbole at this point. Trump's entire staff, to include the Pentagon, will listen to the conversation and decide where to move next.
How can we know if it is exaggeration or hyperbole when no one knows what was said in that room except for Putin, Trump, and 2 interpreters?
We never know what is discussed in private meetings when our presidents meet with foreign leaders. Relax.
 
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How can we know if it is exaggeration or hyperbole when no one knows what was said in that room except for Putin, Trump, and 2 interpreters?

Well by definition since nobody knows what was said it is made up. And talking about it as nightmare scenario, that he agreed to this and that, is the exaggeration and hyperbole.
 
Well by definition since nobody knows what was said it is made up. And talking about it as nightmare scenario, that he agreed to this and that, is the exaggeration and hyperbole.
I don't think it's hyperbole when Trump has track record of doing it. He gave up the South Korean military exercises to Kim.......no one in his administration knew he was going to do it.

Add in his consistent habit of making statements off the cuff and it becomes a real possibility.

Now we have Russian media talking about verbal agreements that were made. A blind man could see this scenario coming but Trump just had to have this private meeting. He has no one else to blame for the approaching shit storm.......but I'm sure he'll find someone.
 
I don't think it's hyperbole when Trump has track record of doing it. He gave up the South Korean military exercises to Kim.......no one in his administration knew he was going to do it.

Add in his consistent habit of making statements off the cuff and it becomes a real possibility.

Now we have Russian media talking about verbal agreements that were made. A blind man could see this scenario coming but Trump just had to have this private meeting. He has no one else to blame for the approaching shit storm.......but I'm sure he'll find someone.

Trump did do that with NK/SK. Not sure what to think.

And I say that having served 18 months there and taking part in those exercises twice. Tough really to say what that meant. We basically lived together(same or adjoining base) and whenever one trained, the other was right there. I remember the big training scenario taking place, it was in media everywhere(tv/newspapers). I remember friends back home asking me about what it entailed, and literally nothing changed. We actually had three other training exercises that were bigger in scope(units/weapons/ranges utilized) while I was there than those publicly announced exercises.

Maybe Gr8 can add something to it from the Navy perspective about what went on in the training exercises with SK.

Sure the Russian Ambassador said verbal agreements were made. Nothing he cannot back out of thankfully. A treaty requires 67 votes from senate, and those same outlets say Trump and Putin still disagree on Ukraine, Crimea, and Syria.

I do get the uneasiness about it but not the reaction. Not yet anyway.
 
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Trump did do that with NK/SK. Not sure what to think.

And I say that having served 18 months there and taking part in those exercises twice. Tough really to say what that meant. We basically lived together(same or adjoining base) and whenever one trained, the other was right there. I remember the big training scenario taking place, it was in media everywhere(tv/newspapers). I remember friends back home asking me about what it entailed, and literally nothing changed. We actually had three other training exercises that were bigger in scope(units/weapons/ranges utilized) while I was there than those publicly announced exercises.

Maybe Gr8 can add something to it from the Navy perspective about what went on in the training exercises with SK.

Sure the Russian Ambassador said verbal agreements were made. Nothing he cannot back out of thankfully. A treaty requires 67 votes from senate, and those same outlets say Trump and Putin still disagree on Ukraine, Crimea, and Syria.

I do get the uneasiness about it but not the reaction. Not yet anyway.
Yep, reacting to or speculating about a conversation that we know nothing about is premature.
Hopefully the checks and balances in the system would prevent Trump from going too far. But with his popularity with his base and the resulting spineless silence from the pubs in the Congress my concerns go a little past uneasiness. I assume there is a red line, at least I hope there is.
 
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I don't think it's hyperbole when Trump has track record of doing it. He gave up the South Korean military exercises to Kim.......no one in his administration knew he was going to do it.

Add in his consistent habit of making statements off the cuff and it becomes a real possibility.

Now we have Russian media talking about verbal agreements that were made. A blind man could see this scenario coming but Trump just had to have this private meeting. He has no one else to blame for the approaching shit storm.......but I'm sure he'll find someone.
Please. Gave up? He shut down 1 exercise. It doesn’t mean it’s forever. God, you’re so blinded by TDS.

Also, Trump got three hostages released and he’s gotten remains of over 200 Korean War dead back with work being done to get thousands more identified and returned.
 
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Please. Gave up? He shut down 1 exercise. It doesn’t mean it’s forever. God, you’re so blinded by TDS.

Also, Trump got three hostages released and he’s gotten remains of over 200 Korean War dead back with work being done to get thousands more identified and returned.

Let's also not dismiss that by simply meeting with Kim, he gave the North Koreans something they've badly wanted for generations. It was also a terrific propaganda-building opportunity for the North.
 
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Let's also not dismiss that by simply meeting with Kim, he gave the North Koreans something they've badly wanted for generations. It was also a terrific propaganda-building opportunity for the North.
It's amazing to me you've turned the NK situation into a negative. There are plenty of things to complain about. NK is probably not one of them.
 
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Let's also not dismiss that by simply meeting with Kim, he gave the North Koreans something they've badly wanted for generations. It was also a terrific propaganda-building opportunity for the North.
How else do you get Kim to change if you’re not willing to meet him? Kim wants self-preservation and access to Western money. The West and his neighbors want him to be less of a hermit kingdom dictator. We are still technically in a state of war. That needs to end after nearly 70 years.
 
It's amazing to me you've turned the NK situation into a negative. There are plenty of things to complain about. NK is probably not one of them.

It's in the context of the give-and-take that happened with the North. If Trump is such a great dealmaker, I'd hope for a bit more than we got from the North, given what we gave up.
 
Please. Gave up? He shut down 1 exercise. It doesn’t mean it’s forever. God, you’re so blinded by TDS.

Also, Trump got three hostages released and he’s gotten remains of over 200 Korean War dead back with work being done to get thousands more identified and returned.
Turns out that the US has not yet gotten remains. NK promised to give the first 55 sets “next week”. Mike Pompeo is working this issue and is frustrated by NK’s slow response.
 
It's in the context of the give-and-take that happened with the North. If Trump is such a great dealmaker, I'd hope for a bit more than we got from the North, given what we gave up.
It’s very premature to judge this as a success or failure yet. It looks a little promising but only time will tell. Also, none of us know the details....
 
It’s very premature to judge this as a success or failure yet. It looks a little promising but only time will tell. Also, none of us know the details....

Fair enough. If they truly give up their nukes in the coming decade (seems extremely unlikely from a strategic POV on their end), it'll be a success. I agree.
 
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Maybe Gr8 can add something to it from the Navy perspective about what went on in the training exercises with SK.
Navy does two major exercises with South Korea every year. I cannot recall the US ever not participating until this instance. Obviously we don’t have ships stationed there, just a few helicopters, so from a Navy perspective, yes, that was a big, big deal.
 
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Fair enough. If they truly give up their nukes in the coming decade (seems extremely unlikely from a strategic POV on their end), it'll be a success. I agree.
Trump is getting taken by Kim. Giving things on the front end for promises on the back end. If Obama did this, these guys would be outraged like it was the Iranian nuclear accord.
 
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Please. Gave up? He shut down 1 exercise. It doesn’t mean it’s forever. God, you’re so blinded by TDS.

Also, Trump got three hostages released and he’s gotten remains of over 200 Korean War dead back with work being done to get thousands more identified and returned.
Stay on point. We're talking about what happens in the private meetings.

I think it's great they promised to return the remains. I'm sure it will please all the mothers and fathers that begged Trump during the campaign to secure the return of their children's remains.

Yes Trump gave up the military exercises. That was a surprise to his national security and defense leaders. Not part of the plan. It clearly shows he is capable of making these kinds of decisions on the fly.......so the question of what he gave up to Putin is appropriate.

BTW, it was reported yesterday his planned military parade will cost almost as much as the cancelled military exercises with South Korea. Priorities. Saving money on the exercises was just a bullshit excuse.
 
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Trump is getting taken by Kim. Giving things on the front end for promises on the back end. If Obama did this, these guys would be outraged like it was the Iranian nuclear accord.

So what/why did Trump take Kim, and for what? The fact he met with him is a major concession? Ok, if you and others say so.

As for the Iranian accord, Obama freed up frozen money, someone had posted a link on here about how Obama went to other banks in the mideast to try to circumvent sanctions, totaly went around the senate/congress, and Iran violated the the agreement at least three times within first year. Oh, and the source is the HP. There were more issues than this as well. They are a major source of terror and instability in the region as well.

If Trump does something like this, do not think anyone will like it. He met with Kim a month or so ago, nothing has happened yet.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/majid-rafizadeh/iran-breached-the-nuclear_b_9977768.html
 
If Trump does something like this, do not think anyone will like it. He met with Kim a month or so ago, nothing has happened yet.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/majid-rafizadeh/iran-breached-the-nuclear_b_9977768.html
That nothing has happened is a good thing. No more nuclear tests and no rockets fired towards Japan.
We will see what happens if NK pulls an Iran.
Can anyone argue with Trump that the Iran Nuclear Deal was terrible.
Trump can always start the war games again with SC. We won't get our money back from Iran.
 
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The actual American left’s reaction to trump and Russia has been muted. We are more appalled at many of the other things he’s done.

The backlash to Trump’s dealings with Russia is coming from the American political mainstream. Your world view is skewed so far to the right that you think even mild criticism of the president must be coming from an avowed leftist.
 
Trump is getting taken by Kim. Giving things on the front end for promises on the back end. If Obama did this, these guys would be outraged like it was the Iranian nuclear accord.

Yeah. I think another accomplishment would be their dismantling of the crazy amount of artillery pointed at Seoul. Then again, I have no idea how easy it would be to quickly re-assembly that. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
So what/why did Trump take Kim, and for what? The fact he met with him is a major concession? Ok, if you and others say so.

As for the Iranian accord, Obama freed up frozen money, someone had posted a link on here about how Obama went to other banks in the mideast to try to circumvent sanctions, totaly went around the senate/congress, and Iran violated the the agreement at least three times within first year. Oh, and the source is the HP. There were more issues than this as well. They are a major source of terror and instability in the region as well.

If Trump does something like this, do not think anyone will like it. He met with Kim a month or so ago, nothing has happened yet.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/majid-rafizadeh/iran-breached-the-nuclear_b_9977768.html

Let's also not forget that the threat to withhold that (already owed) money is what expediently freed captured US sailors. Sly move on the Obama admin's part.
 
So what/why did Trump take Kim, and for what? The fact he met with him is a major concession? Ok, if you and others say so.

As for the Iranian accord, Obama freed up frozen money, someone had posted a link on here about how Obama went to other banks in the mideast to try to circumvent sanctions, totaly went around the senate/congress, and Iran violated the the agreement at least three times within first year. Oh, and the source is the HP. There were more issues than this as well. They are a major source of terror and instability in the region as well.

If Trump does something like this, do not think anyone will like it. He met with Kim a month or so ago, nothing has happened yet.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/majid-rafizadeh/iran-breached-the-nuclear_b_9977768.html
Canceling annual exercises with allies as a concession to Kim based on promises. Meeting with the leader of a rogue state gives him de facto recognition. It’d be panned by you guys if it wasn’t Trump doing it. Simple as that.
 
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Let's also not forget that the threat to withhold that (already owed) money is what expediently freed captured US sailors. Sly move on the Obama admin's part.
It also illuminates Obama's feckless dealings with Iran - the fact that Iran was emboldened to take our sailors' hostage in the first place and then humiliate them publically. What do you think would happen if they tried this stunt under Trump?
 
It also illuminates Obama's feckless dealings with Iran - the fact that Iran was emboldened to take our sailors' hostage in the first place and then humiliate them publically. What do you think would happen if they tried this stunt under Trump?
Yes. It almost assuredly would under the same circumstances. Those Sailors were in Iranian waters illegally.
 
Canceling annual exercises with allies as a concession to Kim based on promises. Meeting with the leader of a rogue state gives him de facto recognition. It’d be panned by you guys if it wasn’t Trump doing it. Simple as that.
He cancelled one exercise that was to occur around the time of the summit. Would you hold that exercise right when you're trying to get NK to start playing nice on the world stage? Poke Kim in the eye when you're trying to negotiate with him? Also, just because that one was cancelled doesn't mean they are all cancelled in perpetuity.
 
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