Anyone viewing practices?
- Thread starter Schmedly_Whiplash
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Not directly practice related, but today is Big Ten Media Days so we should have a lot of basketball content to pine over for the next couple of days. I believe the 3 seniors are the attendees for Purdue. I think BTN coverage starts @ 9:30am Eastern
CMP....
Purdue HC Matt Painter Press Conference | 2023 Big Ten Men's Basketball Media Day
Purdue Men's Basketball Head Coach Matt Painter talks with the media ahead on the start of the 2023-24 season
www.bigtenplus.com
Team breakdowns....
Big Ten men's basketball media day: Power rankings, awards, storylines to watch | FOX Sports
With Big Ten media day set to take place Tuesday in Minneapolis, John Fanta reveals his conference power rankings, awards and storylines to watch.
www.foxsports.com
Speaking of media day, it was great to see Purdue representing on the media side! Rafeal Davis, Bruce Webber, and Robbie Hummel as the three analysts with Dave Revsine. Also, LewJack asking Painter a question at the press conference -- he said he is with Beyond the Big Ten.
So glad to hear LewJack is doing well.
Saw this comment on TKR from Edey
That's just awesome. We all saw in the scrimmage and tour games. Much more aggressive and seems to be more mobile. He's going to make things so much more difficult for defenses if they can't double Zack.
It’ll help so much in March and all season if we can have multiple reliable go-to guys on the court at all times. Glad to hear TKR’s putting in the work!
We've knocked on the door in my lifetime.
Last year we banged on it. Prior to tourney anyway.
Time to kick that mf'er IN.
Last year we banged on it. Prior to tourney anyway.
Time to kick that mf'er IN.
It’s hard not to get excited about TKR when I read this. When I watched him play in Europe, it was hard to tell if I could trust what I was seeing, given the level of competition, but he looked like he was ready to take his game to a whole new level.
If he has increased his foot speed and overall quickness, he is gonna be a problem. Need to get him on that Trevion Williams jump rope routine 😉
I can imagine a scenario where both Edey and TKR are almost impossible to guard 1:1, which will open up a lot of possibilities.
The scrimmage was most impressive imo. He and Furst went AT IT.
They both looked big and strong and mobile. Furst could not stop TKR, and he's pretty good defensively and certainly strong enough.
Certainly big time comp.
THAT was very impressive to me. Aside from making his shots it was his ability and DESIRE to GET INTO THE LANE that stood out the most to me.
Repeatedly forcing his way in against Caleb and then usually finishing, very very nice.
Whether it works playing with Zack or being the main scorer off the bench he's going to be one valuable kid.
Probably be one of the missing pieces from last year.
If Colvin really becomes a factor this team has almost too many weapons (I know, I know).
I think that TKR and Zach will start together, but I also think that Painter will have TKR on the floor when Zach is out of the game.The scrimmage was most impressive imo. He and Furst went AT IT.
They both looked big and strong and mobile. Furst could not stop TKR, and he's pretty good defensively and certainly strong enough.
Certainly big time comp.
THAT was very impressive to me. Aside from making his shots it was his ability and DESIRE to GET INTO THE LANE that stood out the most to me.
Repeatedly forcing his way in against Caleb and then usually finishing, very very nice.
Whether it works playing with Zack or being the main scorer off the bench he's going to be one valuable kid.
Probably be one of the missing pieces from last year.
If Colvin really becomes a factor this team has almost too many weapons (I know, I know).
Agree with this. Mason will play a valuable role this year but I don't think he'll be on the floor much when Zach is on the bench.
Could be, as another Painter fav.?
But many times a gaping hole on offense scoring 6 or under in 16 of 29 games. A consistent 3 would help.
Very good rebounder, but better than other 4s???....maybe a little, not significant imo. He is willing to set pics, & is an enforcer, and perhaps in that limited role, a positive.
Nicely put. That’s exactly what I saw at the scrimmage too.The scrimmage was most impressive imo. He and Furst went AT IT.
They both looked big and strong and mobile. Furst could not stop TKR, and he's pretty good defensively and certainly strong enough.
Certainly big time comp.
THAT was very impressive to me. Aside from making his shots it was his ability and DESIRE to GET INTO THE LANE that stood out the most to me.
Repeatedly forcing his way in against Caleb and then usually finishing, very very nice.
Whether it works playing with Zack or being the main scorer off the bench he's going to be one valuable kid.
Probably be one of the missing pieces from last year.
If Colvin really becomes a factor this team has almost too many weapons (I know, I know).
I strongly disagree that looking at ppg is a good indicator of anyone being a 'gaping hole on offense'. MP's offense can function at a very high level without running offense for everyone. Mason only took 7 or more shots eight times last season and averaged over 13 ppg on 53% from the field and 43% from deep in those games.
Agreed he had about 8 good games, one of which he was great. Others, not so much.
Extremely simplistic way to define 'good games', IMO, for a player who is not asked to be a primary scoring option. Of the 24 games where he took fewer than 7 shots he shot less than 50% from the field fourteen times, less than 40% ten times and less than 33% seven times.
I agree that he needs to be more consistent in converting the shots he takes but are you saying that you'd like to see him more consistently looking to score?
Heavens no. I am saying he looks great on bench by Morton.
I understand your points and realize, I am likely in a minority view here.
I don't think you're in the minority and I'm not even sure I disagree with you. I just want to see Trey be able to guard a 4 and score outside of the post or see Caleb consistently knock down threes before I relegate Mason to the bench.
Mason has his limitations but the next Vince Edwards isn't walking through that door this season.
Call me crazy, but I think that TKR has a good chance to be as good as Vince Edwards. I agree that the D needs to improve, but he’s a hard worker and he wouldn’t be the first player to make a leap defensively under Painter at this stage in his career.
I don't think you're crazy at all, I just think they're very different players. Vince was a true stretch four, Trey taller and thicker, more of a post player learning to play the four.
A junior or senior Vince would have been unbelievable playing alongside Zach. Trey will probably be better next year when he's the focus of the offense.
Your absolutely correct. When Biggie came to Purdue, Vince actually moved to the 3.
I'm still in the camp that TKR is an undersized 5 (by Purdue standards) than he is a modern day 4. He's really good at backing guys down and scoring near the basket but I haven't seen him actually try to beat guys off the dribble or shoot anything from the outside unless he's got a lot of time, and his shot is uncontested.
Don't get me wrong I think he's great. I certainly think he can be a double-digit scorer if given the minutes but in my opinion he's going to need Zach to leave before he can be the All B1G player some believe he could be.
The discussion on the four spot is interesting. Zach's going to get 30 + minutes in meaningful games. Painter consistently says the guys that can play with Zach the best are going to play the most. If Zach plays 32 minutes like last year, that only leaves 48 minutes for three guys. The most likely scenario is that 2 guys will split 40 and the third guy will get 8-10 minutes like TKR did last year. I like all of these guys but one of them is going to be the odd man out. Unless Painter is just giving TKR lip service it won't be him at least to start the year, so either Furst or Gillis are going to be the odd man out. That's just a reality.
If Matt sees Trey as his previous 4s, then it is safe to assume that Trey can shoot the ball on the perimeter. Last year there really wasn't a 4 that could drive the ball...or at least none showed it. It would be nice that a 4 would be effective on the perimeter and driving the ball. I draw a distinction between driving the ball to get closer and possibly pulling the D than beating guys off the dribble. Not sure of any discussed 4's that beat guys off the dribble.
Now the question is does Matt really play Trey and Zach together a lot? If so, is there an expectation that the 4 is used a bit differently than previously or that Trey is showing in practice that he can now play a bit more as "previous" 4s? I certainly don't have an answer since I'm not seeing practice.
That said, there has been different players that have stated Trey is the guy that has made a huge jump. One player a while back stated Trey really shoots the ball well. It was also stated in the last couple of days by players that you can find Trey many different times of the day in the gym and so we shall all know soon a bit more about Trey. His perimeter shot is slower than desired as we know, but how do we reconcile Matt and the players comments on Trey with our vision of last year?
@tjreese , ignoring the defensive side for a minute, how would you envision Matt using Trey in a situation like FDU where the defense is selling out to stop Zach?
Certainly if he can consistently hit threes he would get open looks and that would help, but my sense is, that’s not really Matt’s plan. Would you post him up on the opposite block and make the defense either guard him one on one or pull a second defender away from Zach? Look to get him the ball at the elbow and score from there or feed Zach ? Something else? Your mind for x’s and O’s is much better than mine.
It will be interesting for sure. I’m full out drinking the Kool-Aid here but my hope is that half of the games this season are double digit wins and Zach can play somewhere in the range of 25 minutes in those games. I would also suspect / hope that Caleb and Trey get more run than Mason in games that are in hand early. They need the game time development more and with Mason’s history of back problems. I’d like to see Matt manage his minutes.
You’re right that the math is what it is for available minutes, I just hope to see Matt use a wider distribution of how those minutes are allocated from game to game based on matchups and situations.
Recently saw a pic of Trevion, his weight is still way down. Almost looked skinny 220-230 range.
Quite a few seem to think that if TKR scores better that is going to put Mason on the bench. Some, if TKR really blows up. But that doesn't mean that TKR scoring > Masons D and pick setting and value to team toughness. Mason is way too valuable in the ways that fans don't see but every coach (and team) needs, to be relegated to the bench.
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Not seeing practice for a better understanding that "may" not be provided during games when we rarely saw them together is a bit of guesswork. Some coaches will work on individual D by having a defender hand the ball to the offensive player at the FT line. This is because that is the hardest place to defend a player to keep from scoring. Course there is no secondary defender and it is only one on one. Still, I gravitate to the elbow for one and the blocks for another. I would love it if Zach was really effective out to 12-15 so that Trey can take a 4 low. However, last year if played together against FDU, it would have been war in the paint. Here is the thing, nobody on that team was going to leave Zach one on one to cover another another defender threatening in the lane I don't believe and if so Trey would be perfectly capable of short passes towards the rim. People talk about Trey not allowing enough space for Zach, but how much space does Zach need to catch a short pass on the blocks if needed. Spacing would not be a problem for Trey, because Trey just dribble enough to get to his spots. Trey shot jump hooks which are not defensible from behind.
AS you know...every advantage a player or team has can many times be the Achilles Heel when flipped. Almost every matchup of players one is stronger, and the other is typically quicker. You should "desire" to be dominant in your strength. You don't foul jump shooters and if a guy is quicker...give enough cushion to still contend with your length. If quicker you want space and that is a function of your threat on the perimeter for most.
Anyway, I would like to have seen a high-low game and see how FDU did with either, one on one on both Zach AND Trey or for FDU to send 3 players to fight the war in the paint. FDU owned the quickness and yet scored a decent amount in the lane or just outside and when that space diminishes, then length is more important. I'm also one that would go under screens a bit more than Matt does because I just think some players are not as big a threat shooting as driving...
Still, I fully understand Matt thinking any second one of those open shots would drop.
There will be a ton of open mid range jumpers for anyone looking for those shots. x2 if the guards shoot better from 3. Was last year as well but mostly nobody took them. TKR can easily be that guy and make them (imo). In my dreams so can Heide and Waddell and Colvin and then..... you just can't stop us.
Elbow, high post. How well he kicks it back into Zach when it's there will be a big tell on his minutes as well as the D.
It really depends on how much TKR's capabilities have expanded. If he can hit open shots for 15+ feet, improved his quickness some, and can guard other teams wings, I could see him having a ton of play time at the 4. I would envision some set plays where Edey draws the double near the paint on one side of the basket and Trey streaks on the other with a lob pass to finish. It would combat the double without having to rely on open 3's falling.
Since TKR's post game is strong, would it make sense to post him sometimes and let Zach do what the 4 normally does in those situations? Could make for easy 1v1 post ups with Zach getting most of the attention still.
If it's successful can then lead to maybe an easy post up for Zach on the other post after a double comes to TKR or a maybe even an open Zach.
Wouldn't that be fun!
One of my other dreams involves Zach progressing enough to start attacking with passes when teams double him.
Not just kicking it out, but feeding guys flashing to the hoop as you describe.
As with the full court press, you gotta make teams pay for how they attack you. Don't just block the punches, counter-attack specifically against what they are doing.
SO hard to do...
Whole nother level of badass at that point.
