Anyone thinking we're going to miss the two transfers needs to see this chart
- Thread starter hunkgolden
- Start date
Does this mean that TreW and Hunter are our 2 best players? Knew that already...
Surprised by Thompson...
No surprise that Haarms and NE are ugly on offense. EB and Proctor seem to be no big loss either.
Surprised by Thompson...
No surprise that Haarms and NE are ugly on offense. EB and Proctor seem to be no big loss either.
First time I've seen a chart like this. Would someone give a little explanation?
The best technical phrase to describe what this chart says is that Haarms & Eastern sucked ass.
Without going into a lot of detail look at the far right column. Positive is good, negative is bad.
Overview
On-court/off-court splits are a simple concept to understand. They just record a team's performance (offensive and defensive efficiency, rebound rate, effective field goal percentage, turnover rate, etc.) when a certain player is on or off the court.
One player's performance in relation to another player being on or off the court can also be tracked, though that data is much harder to find.
Interpretation
On/off splits help demonstrate an individual's impact on different aspects of a team. Mind you, it's not a perfect measuring stick for value because it doesn't account for teammates or opponents, so use your common sense when evaluating these metrics.
For instance, Thabo Sefolosha's on/off splits look incredible, but remember, he gets to play with Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook and Serge Ibaka for nearly all of his minutes. Obviously, those guys will drive the team's performance, not Sefolosha.
There are still plenty of interesting nuggets to mine for in the on/off data though.
Consider this: when Brandon Jennings was on the court last season, the Milwaukee Bucks were outscored by 4.4 points per 100 possessions. When Jennings (generally considered Milwaukee's best player) was off the court, the Bucks not only improved upon that margin, but actually outscored their opponents by 6.9 points per 100 possessions.
Is it any wonder they were so determined to dump Jennings this past offseason?
Where to Find It
Basketball-Reference has on/off splits on both their player and team pages (just search the player or team), though I'd like to see them expand upon the data they provide there.
Another site with a little wider array of stats in their on/off section is 82games.com. Just navigate to a specific player's page and scroll to the bottom.
I get what you’re saying. I looked at the -17 and adding the 2..... wondered how he better a 19.
No way he was our 2nd best player by watching him. He was really good on offense for about 5 games.
I guess the bold ones are negative and the - is good.... I didn’t look at it closely enough...
I guess net = offense minus defense
so that means negative is good on defense? So proctor is much better on defenses than eastern??? This doesn’t make sense
what does the red signify?
The '21-'22 season should benefit from this momentary pain. Hunter, Tre, and Sasha will be senior stars leading a lot of young talent with valuable experience.
Yep .. I'll take a struggle next with what is coming. And even then I still think this upcoming season will be better than the last one. In theory we should more than make up for what we lost, may not be right out of the gate... but by the end of the season we should see it.
There is an intangible that Painter spent a lot of time mentioning in the DD interview. Work ethic/hunger/winning attitude. I agree with not out of the gate ... but Mid-January ... I'm excited!!!!!
When putting stock into these stats, realize that for the 18/19 season Haarms had the #2 and Eastern the #3 net differential for the team---both ahead of Carsen (chart from Pivot Analysis tweet).
When putting stock into these stats, realize that for the 18/19 season Haarms had the #2 and Eastern the #3 net differential for the team---both ahead of Carsen (chart from Pivot Analysis tweet).
Maybe that should tell you something. Like maybe Carsen garnered all of the defensive attention and allowed NE and MH to play well in their roles. I still think Haarms will be a big loss. His injuries this past year hampered his performance, in my opinion.
Agree about haarms. And I personally don't put much stock into these analytics. The post above by 02boilermaker perfectly demonstrates why. Nojel on the other hand just doesn't have a game that translates well to the college level. I think we'll be fine without him.
To me this speaks volumes of game planning at this level. Coaches don't just sit back and defend everyone the same. They look at game film and metrics like these and make adjustments to try and get the opponent away from their best options. It always drove me crazy when people would complain about Carsen and how he needed to be a different player. Well, here is proof that he (and Cline) made at least 2 guys much better players than when they had to carry their own water. That is entirely due to the attention Carsen drew from the opposing coaches.When putting stock into these stats, realize that for the 18/19 season Haarms had the #2 and Eastern the #3 net differential for the team---both ahead of Carsen (chart from Pivot Analysis tweet).
or maybe the metric is flawed.
I’m going to ignore any metric that shows eastern as the worst defender and proctor as the best
I'm not a Purdue fan but the one thing Painter said rings true. If you wanna be a pro, work like a pro.. None of us were at practice but sometimes the truth hurts. If those two young men weren't all in with their craft they will never get to the level they want to.
exactly - as well as the sentence or two about "needing to compete with others." From the day a player steps on campus, he better be competing for playing time ... remember the t-shirts/practice shorts in HS ... Play Hard or Go Home ... buddy, you ain't seen nothin' 'til ya get to college.
Never played high level sports (and very mediocre in HS) but one analogy for us without the sports experience is the academics. HS to Purdue engineering was a HUGE jump, and super competitive (almost all classes were graded on a curve).
The business world is also highly competitive. If you believe you don't need to work hard and improve yourself to be considered for promotional opportunities, or that you're not competing with others for those opportunities, you're wrong. Being scared to compete and work on your weaknesses is weakness itself. Not being self aware of your limitations is also a huge problem.
Absolutely agree with all you said. Because every team is a puzzle, I am most interested in team level & line-up specific efficiency ratings. They are improving all the time, but at this point I don't think analytics are all that great at drilling down to context-free individual net efficiency numbers...meaning these player net efficiency type charts usually aren't great at outputting a single "Player A is better than Player B" type ranking as I thought was being implied earlier in the thread.
We saw another great example a few years ago of when Biggie, Haas, and Vince all were very efficient offensive players individually, yet the team was most efficient when only 2 of those 3 were on the court at the same time.
You are right on target about academics. At least from my personal experience. I suspect the parallel to sports which is even more intense because the population of competitors is so much smaller. I blew way anyone in high school academically, but walking into my first class with a room full of people as academically accomplished as me was intense. .
Indeed a humbling experience when perhaps your greatest strength (your mind) is now pulled down a few notches. Not easy to admit you aren’t as smart as you thought you might have been. My HS class had 46 graduates (rural IN) and PU certainly humbled me. Made me learn how to fight and try harder for academic success, but I know many examples (several at PU) where they simply could not make the adjustment, some with unquestionably higher IQs than me. Analogous to gifted physical athletes who crumble in the face of the collegiate challenge, which I know this board could list many former college BB players where this was the case.
You bet. That first year I discovered I had to actually study! What the hell! Those Differential equations took practice. Damn!
I am sure there are plenty of athletes that expected to dominate like they did in high school. I think we have recently seen a mother who expected her son to be as good relative to ponents as he was in high school. Never figured out that everyone he was playing against was as good as he was in 12th grade.
To your point, I had 3 roommates my freshman year at Purdue and all 3 had scored a perfect 1600 on their SAT.
I've mentioned this before, but my son went to a mid-major and his first call home after practices started stated that the slowest guy on the team was quicker than anyone he had ever played against.
What he saw as a wide-open three got blocked by a guy he thought was loafing in the paint.
What he saw as a wide-open three got blocked by a guy he thought was loafing in the paint.
crap crap crap
anyone that knows anything about basketball saw the effect of both players on defense...only real shot blocker and by far the best defensive player gone! Big loss!
somebody does need to step up,,,hunter and johnson need more strength just to take the ball to the hole...wheeler has got to fix his shot...sasha got to keep improving! Deo has got to step up...who knows what we can get out of the freshmen!
anyone that knows anything about basketball saw the effect of both players on defense...only real shot blocker and by far the best defensive player gone! Big loss!
somebody does need to step up,,,hunter and johnson need more strength just to take the ball to the hole...wheeler has got to fix his shot...sasha got to keep improving! Deo has got to step up...who knows what we can get out of the freshmen!
