Anybody think Painter is contemplating a change at the 3?

[SCBoiler1]

Last night Newman ended up playing almost as many minutes as Morton and he finished the game. While no one could stop JHS it seemed Newman gave him more problems than Morton. While JHS scored against Newman, Newman really pressured the ball and ended up with 3 steals. Just watching the last few games it appears Newman's intensity has really picked up. and I'm starting to believe Morton's defense may not be good enough to offset his shortcomings on the offensive end of the court.

Anybody think Painter may be contemplation a change at the 3? I don't know if it would help. There is a fine line between panicking and pounding sand. For the first 22 games I was buying into this "glue guy" narrative but we've lost 2 out of the last 6. I think we'll win the B1G championship (most likely win out right) no matter who gets the minutes at the 3, but this ship is heading in the wrong direction as we approach tourney time.

 

[bashfan]

I have never been a Morton fan. Can't believe he was Mr. BB in PA. terrible shooter and I would replace him with Newman. Newman just has more to offer. better rebounder, better shooter, just as good defense and hustler. The defense doesn't even have to guard Morton when he is away from the basket and sag in on Edey. Time to make a change before it is too late.

 

[purduedavie]

I doubt he switches the starting lineup, probably minute allotment will change though, time for both Newman and Jenkins to play more minutes.

 

[Boiler Buck]

Last night Newman ended up playing almost as many minutes as Morton and he finished the game. While no one could stop JHS it seemed Newman gave him more problems than Morton. While JHS scored against Newman, Newman really pressured the ball and ended up with 3 steals. Just watching the last few games it appears Newman's intensity has really picked up. and I'm starting to believe Morton's defense may not be good enough to offset his shortcomings on the offensive end of the court.

Anybody think Painter may be contemplation a change at the 3? I don't know if it would help. There is a fine line between panicking and pounding sand. For the first 22 games I was buying into this "glue guy" narrative but we've lost 2 out of the last 6. I think we'll win the B1G championship (most likely win out right) no matter who gets the minutes at the 3, but this ship is heading in the wrong direction as we approach tourney time.

Besides TOs......really, CMP has a problem with his defense. Morton sometimes is a part of that like last night & CMP doesn't see it. Because most nights, Morton is flat out the BEST defender on Purdue and his attention is elsewhere, like TOs. But Newman was better last night on JHS, even on a night he was mostly unstoppable. Still, Newman caused him some problems.

Still, teams are going off for 38+ points in a half against his guys, due to to much double teaming, not rotating quick enough, problems with the pic & roll, or just bad D. Happened 7 times since January 1. Not Boiler D.

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

Last night Newman ended up playing almost as many minutes as Morton and he finished the game. While no one could stop JHS it seemed Newman gave him more problems than Morton. While JHS scored against Newman, Newman really pressured the ball and ended up with 3 steals. Just watching the last few games it appears Newman's intensity has really picked up. and I'm starting to believe Morton's defense may not be good enough to offset his shortcomings on the offensive end of the court.

Anybody think Painter may be contemplation a change at the 3? I don't know if it would help. There is a fine line between panicking and pounding sand. For the first 22 games I was buying into this "glue guy" narrative but we've lost 2 out of the last 6. I think we'll win the B1G championship (most likely win out right) no matter who gets the minutes at the 3, but this ship is heading in the wrong direction as we approach tourney time.

Purdue has lost 4 of 6 (@ Indiana, @ NW, @ Maryland, and last night)

From what Matt Painter has said in the past and listening to some of his post-game remarks, I don't think you'll see a change in the starting line-ups or the general game strategy. If Brandon Newman can provide that kind of consistency and effort, he'll continue to play more...in Painter's words. For whatever reason, they appeared to play really tight last night, especially in the second half. While you could say some of the shots weren't great......they had at least 10 or so really good looks to me, and just couldn't hit any of them.......Loyer, Morton, Jenkins, Gillis, Newman, Furst......everybody.

As others have commented - Zach Edey is Purdue's biggest advantage, and he produces game after game. The rest of the team, frankly, has been inconsistent down the stretch.....you just really don't know from game-to-game, right now......flashes. It's what happens when the ball doesn't go in, and they don't have enough right now against really good teams to offset that.

Still - this team has potential IF they put it behind them and give a focused, all-out effort the rest of the way. Have to stand up and face the moment.

When the going gets tough......get tougher......or you'll get going home.

JMHO

 

[jdbrees922]

Painter is stubbornly in love with Morton and Loyer. I have been saying for weeks Jenkins and Newman need to play more. Painter used to always defer to the upper class men when in a crisis, and should in this case

 

[rjmpu82]

Purdue has lost 4 of 6 (@ Indiana, @ NW, @ Maryland, and last night)

From what Matt Painter has said in the past and listening to some of his post-game remarks, I don't think you'll see a change in the starting line-ups or the general game strategy. If Brandon Newman can provide that kind of consistency and effort, he'll continue to play more...in Painter's words. For whatever reason, they appeared to play really tight last night, especially in the second half. While you could say some of the shots weren't great......they had at least 10 or so really good looks to me, and just couldn't hit any of them.......Loyer, Morton, Jenkins, Gillis, Newman, Furst......everybody.

As others have commented - Zach Edey is Purdue's biggest advantage, and he produces game after game. The rest of the team, frankly, has been inconsistent down the stretch.....you just really don't know from game-to-game, right now......flashes. It's what happens when the ball doesn't go in, and they don't have enough right now against really good teams to offset that.

Still - this team has potential IF they put it behind them and give a focused, all-out effort the rest of the way. Have to stand up and face the moment.

When the going gets tough......get tougher......or you'll get going home.

JMHO

Good summary and probably accurate regarding Painter's thought process. I do think sending a player a message by not starting him or limiting his minutes for a game or two can help. Earlier in the season Loyer did not start the second half of a game then came in and really went off. I don't think you can make major changes this late in the season but you might be able to "inspire" a couple of guys by a little pine time. Newman over Morton should be a real consideration.

 

[DrEss]

To add, I’d guess that Gillis starting vs OSU and him getting 10 rebounds, was not a good enough thing.

 

[depthcharge623]

Good summary and probably accurate regarding Painter's thought process. I do think sending a player a message by not starting him or limiting his minutes for a game or two can help. Earlier in the season Loyer did not start the second half of a game then came in and really went off. I don't think you can make major changes this late in the season but you might be able to "inspire" a couple of guys by a little pine time. Newman over Morton should be a real consideration.

Might help to “send a guy a message”, but might also hurt team chemistry which is supposed to be one of our strengths.

 

[DrEss]

Losing 4 of the last 6 games, this close to the NCAA, to me, maintaining team chemistry should not be the first priority.

 

[SCBoiler1]

Purdue has lost 4 of 6 (@ Indiana, @ NW, @ Maryland, and last night)

From what Matt Painter has said in the past and listening to some of his post-game remarks, I don't think you'll see a change in the starting line-ups or the general game strategy. If Brandon Newman can provide that kind of consistency and effort, he'll continue to play more...in Painter's words. For whatever reason, they appeared to play really tight last night, especially in the second half. While you could say some of the shots weren't great......they had at least 10 or so really good looks to me, and just couldn't hit any of them.......Loyer, Morton, Jenkins, Gillis, Newman, Furst......everybody.

As others have commented - Zach Edey is Purdue's biggest advantage, and he produces game after game. The rest of the team, frankly, has been inconsistent down the stretch.....you just really don't know from game-to-game, right now......flashes. It's what happens when the ball doesn't go in, and they don't have enough right now against really good teams to offset that.

Still - this team has potential IF they put it behind them and give a focused, all-out effort the rest of the way. Have to stand up and face the moment.

When the going gets tough......get tougher......or you'll get going home.

JMHO

I agree with almost everything you say here and I'm not sure Newman is the "magic bullet" but at what point do you try something different? I wasn't asking the question until recently, even after we lost to IU and NW, but its now 4 out of 6.

Purdue is now 5 and 5 against the top 10 teams in the B1G and 2-4 against the top 6. As it stands today Purdue's best B1G win appears to be either at 16-12 Michigan or at 17-11 MSU. Purdue hasn't had a truly impressive win since November.

 

[DannyGranger]

Might help to “send a guy a message”, but might also hurt team chemistry which is supposed to be one of our strengths.

lol, so the less talented “glue guys” will stop being glue guys if they deservedly lose their starting spot? Not really team-first glue guys then are they? This is the last thing we/he should be concerned about

 

[depthcharge623]

lol, so the less talented “glue guys” will stop being glue guys if they deservedly lose their starting spot? Not really team-first glue guys then are they? This is the last thing we/he should be concerned about

Not what I said.

Painter should make whatever moves he believes will help the team. “Sending a message” has the connotation of a punishment rather than a logical move. Punishing anyone or acting in a way that is perceived as punishment would hurt our team chemistry, which after Edey is probably the teams best strength and will be important in March. If you think its not important I don’t know what to tell you.

 

[DannyGranger]

Not what I said.

Painter should make whatever moves he believes will help the team. “Sending a message” has the connotation of a punishment rather than a logical move. Punishing anyone or acting in a way that is perceived as punishment would hurt our team chemistry, which after Edey is probably the teams best strength and will be important in March. If you think its not important I don’t know what to tell you.

I’d just set aside all the psycho babble, play the better players and give Less minutes to these who aren’t getting done. stop trying to justify keeping players who aren’t getting it done and haven’t for a long time, because maybe there’s some down side. 2/6 wins during the most critical time of season calls for change - worth the risk just to shake up.

 

[KentuckyBoiler]

No, I don’t think there will be a change. Painter will stick with what is not working right now.

 

[depthcharge623]

I’d just set aside all the psycho babble, play the better players and give Less minutes to these who aren’t getting done. stop trying to justify keeping players who aren’t getting it done and haven’t for a long time, because maybe there’s some down side. 2/6 wins during the most critical time of season calls for change - worth the risk just to shake up.

I’m not trying to justify anything as I just said that Painter should do whatever he needs to. I was responding specifically to what someone said above about “sending a message.” I didn’t use the phrase they did first I was only responding, and no I don’t think it’s “psychobable,” I think it has a meaning that is pretty broadly understood.

Why does it seem like reading comprehension and basic charity seem to plummet after a loss?

 

[Erock_94]

Idk Newman can lay a pile of bricks

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Last night Newman ended up playing almost as many minutes as Morton and he finished the game. While no one could stop JHS it seemed Newman gave him more problems than Morton. While JHS scored against Newman, Newman really pressured the ball and ended up with 3 steals. Just watching the last few games it appears Newman's intensity has really picked up. and I'm starting to believe Morton's defense may not be good enough to offset his shortcomings on the offensive end of the court.

Anybody think Painter may be contemplation a change at the 3? I don't know if it would help. There is a fine line between panicking and pounding sand. For the first 22 games I was buying into this "glue guy" narrative but we've lost 2 out of the last 6. I think we'll win the B1G championship (most likely win out right) no matter who gets the minutes at the 3, but this ship is heading in the wrong direction as we approach tourney time.

I would start Newman… in front of someone. Can’t hurt.

 

[seminolesboilers]

After losing 4 out of the last 6 games...any coach, who has any Basketball Coaching IQ, would recognize and make a lineup change: Smith, Jenkins, Newman, Gillis/Furst, and Edey.

Painter STOP being so rigid in your coaching decisions!

Morton brings nothing, especially on the offense end...and he made clear last night can NOT guard athletic players...plus is offensively inept. Also, Purdue will not go far in the NCAA Tournament playing an all freshmen backcourt...hence Jenkins for Loyer.

 

[Boiler79]

No. Painter doesn’t adjust. There’s been enough data points to show his Frosh guards can’t handle athletic pressure. If Painter actually considered an adjustment Jenkins wouldn’t have only seen 9 minutes last night. Was he hurt? If not, it’s a failure he only played 9 minutes. Honestly, if I’m Newman, I would enter the portal and go somewhere I can start and play 30 min/game. It’s clear it’s not happening here.

 

[HoosierfanJM]

After losing 4 out of the last 6 games...any coach, who has any Basketball Coaching IQ, would recognize and make a lineup change: Smith, Jenkins, Newman, Gillis/Furst, and Edey.

Painter STOP being so rigid in your coaching decisions!

Morton brings nothing, especially on the offense end...and he made clear last night can NOT guard athletic players...plus is offensively inept. Also, Purdue will not go far in the NCAA Tournament playing an all freshmen backcourt...hence Jenkins for Loyer.

Jenkins and Smith in your lineup at the same time would be a terrible, terrible idea.

Playing two guards, both of whom are 6 feet or less at once in power five basketball is not a winning formula. However, given what I’ve seen from Newman this year it surprises me that he isn’t playing more minutes than Loyer.

 

[jdbrees922]

Then Newman over Loyer, split minutes 20-25 each. They usually play together as well

 

[SunnyFL24]

Loyer definitely needs his minutes cut!!!!!! 3pt shooting for last several games has been god awful.....end of last year Newman was the spark....maybe Jenkins or Newman! A little shake up right now wouldn't hurt!

 

[GoldandBlackintheSaddleAgain]

Don't want to give a knee-jerk hot take after a brutal loss - or forget what got us here

But Loyer has been struggling for the last month+ even though some may have trouble acknowledging that. Calf injury, and just beat up by larger, more athletic guards & wings in the league. Love him, he's a good one but sure wouldn't mind seeing a shake-up in some minutes. He gets massive volume of 3pt attempts and isn't exactly lighting it up from deep at 33%.

Seeing Newman and Jenkins get more of Loyer's and Morton's minutes couldn't hurt. Aside from smoking a bad OSU team, Boilers not playing particularly well for last 5-6 games or whatever it is

 

[M51]

Last night Newman ended up playing almost as many minutes as Morton and he finished the game. While no one could stop JHS it seemed Newman gave him more problems than Morton. While JHS scored against Newman, Newman really pressured the ball and ended up with 3 steals. Just watching the last few games it appears Newman's intensity has really picked up. and I'm starting to believe Morton's defense may not be good enough to offset his shortcomings on the offensive end of the court.

Anybody think Painter may be contemplation a change at the 3? I don't know if it would help. There is a fine line between panicking and pounding sand. For the first 22 games I was buying into this "glue guy" narrative but we've lost 2 out of the last 6. I think we'll win the B1G championship (most likely win out right) no matter who gets the minutes at the 3, but this ship is heading in the wrong direction as we approach tourney time.

Painter coached a horrible game. We were playing well up to the first TV timeout. And as he always does, replaced Furst. Furst was playing great. Four points, block, steal, couple rebounds, checking TJD. Seemed to loose the early mo at time. Then second half, allowed IU to go on a 12-0 run without calling a TO. Any good coach would call a TO after 8-0. Never let the opponent go 10-0. Painters substituting was terrible the entire game. Morton is completely useless. He is no defensive stopper or any kind of really good defense player. Gillis has not played well for several games. Getting too many minutes. Same with Morton.

Painter did not have them ready to start second half. Horrendous game management and adjustments. This loss is on Painter and no one else.

 

[seminolesboilers]

Jenkins is 6’ 1” and well built and; therefore, having both Smith and Jenkins playing together would not be an issue. Loyer is taller but needs to muscle up during the off-season. Physical play affects Loyer’s game, which would not affect Jenkins because of his build. Plus…experience in the backcourt would help as well.

 

[Poprudy]

Painter coached a horrible game. We were playing well up to the first TV timeout. And as he always does, replaced Furst. Furst was playing great. Four points, block, steal, couple rebounds, checking TJD. Seemed to loose the early mo at time. Then second half, allowed IU to go on a 12-0 run without calling a TO. Any good coach would call a TO after 8-0. Never let the opponent go 10-0. Painters substituting was terrible the entire game. Morton is completely useless. He is no defensive stopper or any kind of really good defense player. Gillis has not played well for several games. Getting too many minutes. Same with Morton.

Painter did not have them ready to start second half. Horrendous game management and adjustments. This loss is on Painter and no one else.

CMP gets stubborn at times and I'm assuming he listens to his assistants. I do agree that sometimes that stubbornness doesn't favor our team, but this team just flat out didn't play well.

 

[HoosierfanJM]

Jenkins is 6’ 1” and well built and; therefore, having both Smith and Jenkins playing together would not be an issue. Loyer is taller but needs to muscle up during the off-season. Physical play affects Loyer’s game, which would not affect Jenkins because of his build. Plus…experience in the backcourt would help as well.

Okay—he’s listed at 6’1 and Smith is at 6’0”. All players are ‘over-heighted’ so comparing apples to apples, IU was 5” taller at both guard positions. When our starting point guard comes back it will drastically improve IU, and we’ll still be 3” and 5” taller than Smith and Jenkins respectively.

Jenkins is an undersized two guard who never goes to the rim. If you can pair him with a tall point like Ivey that works—Jenkins can guard the other team’s smaller guard and play the two on offense. But when your 35 minutes per game point is also undersized it’s an unworkable combination.

 

[seminolesboilers]

Jenkins can handle physical play…Loyer can not at this point in his career! It’s not all about height…but build and experience as well. Jenkins and Smith is better than Smith and Loyer.

Johnson could create chemistry problems for the University of Indiana. Both the university of Indiana and Purdue will lose its last game each play this year.

 

[typeviic]

Last night Newman ended up playing almost as many minutes as Morton and he finished the game. While no one could stop JHS it seemed Newman gave him more problems than Morton. While JHS scored against Newman, Newman really pressured the ball and ended up with 3 steals. Just watching the last few games it appears Newman's intensity has really picked up. and I'm starting to believe Morton's defense may not be good enough to offset his shortcomings on the offensive end of the court.

Anybody think Painter may be contemplation a change at the 3? I don't know if it would help. There is a fine line between panicking and pounding sand. For the first 22 games I was buying into this "glue guy" narrative but we've lost 2 out of the last 6. I think we'll win the B1G championship (most likely win out right) no matter who gets the minutes at the 3, but this ship is heading in the wrong direction as we approach tourney time.

When you do not have an athletic guard to "counter" the other teams athlete (Jaden, Carsen), not hitting open looks by your "shooters" is a HUGE problem to dig out of.
And it is a shame really. The inside/out just does not attract the dymanic guards at a consistent recruiting level.

 

[Schmedly_Whiplash]

Loyer is more of a problem than Morton

 

[seminolesboilers]

Both are a problem...

 

[Poprudy]

Okay—he’s listed at 6’1 and Smith is at 6’0”. All players are ‘over-heighted’ so comparing apples to apples, IU was 5” taller at both guard positions. When our starting point guard comes back it will drastically improve IU, and we’ll still be 3” and 5” taller than Smith and Jenkins respectively.

Jenkins is an undersized two guard who never goes to the rim. If you can pair him with a tall point like Ivey that works—Jenkins can guard the other team’s smaller guard and play the two on offense. But when your 35 minutes per game point is also undersized it’s an unworkable combination.

X may help with depth, but that just takes the ball out of your best off the dribble scorer in JHS. You have a good thing going with the guy. I personally wouldn't risk it.

 

[Jbigler1986]

Morton needs to sit on the bench. Can't have someone playing that is no scoring threat at all.

 

[HoosierfanJM]

X may help with depth, but that just takes the ball out of your best off the dribble scorer in JHS. You have a good thing going with the guy. I personally wouldn't risk it.

X helps a ton with depth, especially defensively. He also gets to the rim with quickness, a skill that our other guards don’t have.

And against slightly smaller teams Galloway shifts to the three for end of games.

 

[Boiler8285]

Painter is stubbornly in love with Morton and Loyer. I have been saying for weeks Jenkins and Newman need to play more. Painter used to always defer to the upper class men when in a crisis, and should in this case

Trust the system. Good teams never change strategies. Painter just needs time to implement his system.

After losing 4 out of the last 6 games...any coach, who has any Basketball Coaching IQ, would recognize and make a lineup change: Smith, Jenkins, Newman, Gillis/Furst, and Edey.

Painter STOP being so rigid in your coaching decisions!

Morton brings nothing, especially on the offense end...and he made clear last night can NOT guard athletic players...plus is offensively inept. Also, Purdue will not go far in the NCAA Tournament playing an all freshmen backcourt...hence Jenkins for Loyer.

Plus Morton allows JHS to play 40 minutes because he has to expend zero energy on defense. Double whammy.

 

[Poprudy]

X helps a ton with depth, especially defensively. He also gets to the rim with quickness, a skill that our other guards don’t have.

And against slightly smaller teams Galloway shifts to the three for end of games.

Do you think that quickness will be there right after the injury? JHS has always reminded me of a Derrick Rose type of guard. That mid range shot is becoming deadly at the right time

 

[Poprudy]

Morton needs to sit on the bench. Can't have someone playing that is no scoring threat at all.

Have to agree. We only have 9 games of 79 or more points and we gave that up twice to IU. If we face teams with multiple guard/wings that are capable of having good games we will get beat. Morton has to bring something to the table offensively or this will continue to be the outcome.

 

[HoosierfanJM]

Do you think that quickness will be there right after the injury? JHS has always reminded me of a Derrick Rose type of guard. That mid range shot is becoming deadly at the right time

Maybe not. A broken foot won’t diminish quickness eventually, but for the near term it might.

JHS was great last night, but getting to the rim is definitely not his strength.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Have to agree. We only have 9 games of 79 or more points and we gave that up twice to IU. If we face teams with multiple guard/wings that are capable of having good games we will get beat. Morton has to bring something to the table offensively or this will continue to be the outcome.

I would divide the 80 minutes at the 2-3 spots evenly between Loyer, Morton, and Newman. 26 minutes and 40 seconds each.