2022/2023 Team Roster

thadoc

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You think schools automatically back off when a kid commits?
Not really....but braden probably told them not interested.....love your spinning though....you bitching about us getting a mr basketball is one I haven't heard in awhile....you probably want us to be the last school to offer a kid so we can really say we out recruited every school for him....
 

northside100

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It has never been the job of the PG in Painter's system to break down defenses off the dribble. I wouldn't expect that to change with Smith. He is more athletic and quicker than PJ, but still very undersized. I don't expect him to be scoring very much in the lane.
I'm not sure I understand your argument. Are you saying that PJ was able to break the defense down off of the dribble? That's just not accurate.

Are you saying the lead guard isn't allowed to do so in this offense? I'd encourage you to watch Lewjack or Ivey highlights.

If you're saying that the PG in this offense isn't required to break down defenses off the dribble I agree. If you're saying there's no benefit in having a PG that can do that I disagree.
 
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Poprudy

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Jan 26, 2012
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I'm not sure I understand your argument. Are you saying that PJ was able to break the the defense down off of the dribble? That's just not accurate.

Are you saying the lead guard isn't allowed to do so in this offense? I'd encourage you to watch Lewjack or Ivey highlights.

If you're saying that the PG in this offense isn't required to break down defenses off the dribble I agree. If you're saying there's no benefit in having a PG that can do that I disagree.

If you're saying that the PG in this offense isn't required to break down defenses off the dribble I agree. If you're saying there's no benefit in having a PG that can do that I disagree.

I think this is what he's saying? This is exactly what our system is like. Having a PG that can break down the defense is just a plus.
 
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boilerball2021

Redshirt Freshman
Jul 29, 2021
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I'm not sure I understand your argument. Are you saying that PJ was able to break the the defense down off of the dribble? That's just not accurate.

Are you saying the lead guard isn't allowed to do so in this offense? I'd encourage you to watch Lewjack or Ivey highlights.

If you're saying that the PG in this offense isn't required to break down defenses off the dribble I agree. If you're saying there's no benefit in having a PG that can do that I disagree.
I was not saying PJ could break down the defense off the dribble. I was actually stating the opposite.

Painter’s offense has evolved quite a bit since the Lewjack days and even then it was hardly ever designed for Lewjack to break his man down off the dribble.

Ivey is irrelevant to the conversation as he’s a wing. Same with Carsen and Moore before him.

I was saying exactly what your last paragraph says.
 

northside100

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I was not saying PJ could break down the defense off the dribble. I was actually stating the opposite.

Painter’s offense has evolved quite a bit since the Lewjack days and even then it was hardly ever designed for Lewjack to break his man down off the dribble.

Ivey is irrelevant to the conversation as he’s a wing. Same with Carsen and Moore before him.

I was saying exactly what your last paragraph says.
Ridiculous to say that Ivey breaking down the defense is irrelevant given that he brought the ball up the court at least a third of the time. Once offense is running in a half court set it's all about either motion or running set plays that can be run for anyone, position doesn't matter at the 1 to 3.

I don't understand the argument that the ability to break down the defense is not a plus.
 

boilerball2021

Redshirt Freshman
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Ridiculous to say that Ivey breaking down the defense is irrelevant given that he brought the ball up the court at least a third of the time. Once offense is running in a half court set it's all about either motion or running set plays that can be run for anyone, position doesn't matter at the 1 to 3.

I don't understand the argument that the ability to break down the defense is not a plus.
Ivey and Smith don’t play the same position and they never will. When Ivey was bringing the ball up, either IT or Hunter were in the game in the position Smith will be playing.

I haven’t once made the argument that having the ability to break down the defense is not a plus.
 

mathboy

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We need to preserve this thread. It is classic Purdue Message board stuff. Especially the whole "I support Painter, but this kid is just a "Johnny Try hard"". Wow! So much fun. No, I am not criticizing anyone here, just noting the differences.

I realize most of the posters here would be delighted if Smith turns into the terror of the BIG, but It is sure fun to see how people do their judging of these recruits. Some are very focused on only those metrics that support their position, others are willing to trust their eyes when they see the highlights. So much fun, and it should be approached that way on this board. I don't advocate any retribution, but a few "I told you so's" won't hurt.

:cool:
 

northside100

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The fact that people are actually hoping he is the next pj Thompson/chris kramer just shows how low the expectations for our guards are on this board.
As much as it pains me to agree with you ;), I think you make an excellent point in that the benchmark for Smith is illustrative of the gap in expectations between two groups of Purdue fans. I would be thrilled if he were comparable to Chris Kramer as I think that you can win a NC with that type of player playing an important role so long as you have headliners at other positions.

I understand, although I disagree, why some fans think that we need high four and five star players at every position to compete for FF's and NC"s.
 

Poprudy

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The fact that people are actually hoping he is the next pj Thompson/chris kramer just shows how low the expectations for our guards are on this board.
PJ and Kramer were to totally different guards. If he can be a good mix between the 2. Then, he's a pretty good get for us.
 
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One thing I haven’t seen people discuss is that even if Purdue can’t really compete in an NIL world, this strategy can have benefits. Kansas just won a title with relatively average recruiting and experience.

We may have lost Pack and DGL to higher bidders, but schools relying on NIL for one time transfers constantly will have their own issues playing cohesively. DGL is really talented, but I don’t want him to play for my team if he doesn’t want to play for us in return.

Buying teams hasn’t been working for teams like Memphis, and we’ll see how well Illinois does this year. But there’s something to be said about cases like Luther Burden, who’s transferring 4 games into his college career after choosing a school for money rather than development. NIL is making players choose a paycheck not a school - and it’s not like pro sports where you have a contract, it’s year to year.

Getting 5 stars comes with more baggage these days, and getting players who genuinely want to play at your school has some value that is probably ignored more now than ever.
 

DAG10

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So we wait on smith to get more offers then offer so we say we beat out other schools?....that's always worked out well with us in the past...we never offered luke brown the stetson kid....mr basketball is a big deal....rarely do they not pan out in college...am I expecting smith to be an all American this year?...no....will he contribute and provide defense, passing, and making the team better?....sure he will....you need to watch film on him....he's one of the best guards painter has gotten....much better than a lot of the ranked players....covid really affected recruiting rankings for this class....loyer is big time too....a lot of etwaun in his game....
I am fine with your thoughts in general and the point that you are trying to make (and, I hope that you are right certainly), but, no way on the last one...there is nothing in Loyer's game that remotely approaches E'Twaun...that is not a knock on Loyer, but, a testament to just how good E'Twaun was.
 

DAG10

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As much as it pains me to agree with you ;), I think you make an excellent point in that the benchmark for Smith is illustrative of the gap in expectations between two groups of Purdue fans. I would be thrilled if he were comparable to Chris Kramer as I think that you can win a NC with that type of player playing an important role so long as you have headliners at other positions.

I understand, although I disagree, why some fans think that we need high four and five star players at every position to compete for FF's and NC"s.
You can win if you surround guys with the right guys...Cline succeeded because of who he played with....as did PJ...as did Kramer...and plenty of others.

One thing to count on guys like that to carry you...another, to have them play a role and be key in areas.
 

DAG10

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If our standard of success at the guard position is the Thompson boys, then we have low standards.
It is not the standard of success, but, both guys were capable...and, more capable than receiving credit for, particularly when surrounded by guys that both were.

Purdue has had plenty of great guards that are a standard for that measure, but, Purdue won a ton of games with both Thompson's, and, it was not because of either directly that they did not achieve what they could/should have.
 
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DAG10

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You mean, he’s a try hard Johnny type?
He is way more than that...the kid can play, and, has shown it a number of times. He absolutely tries hard, but, he has legit skills as well. Admittedly, I have no idea if what he has done can/will translate to Purdue and the B1G, but, I know that the kid can play, and, I absolutely love how he plays.

There have been plenty of guys that have had success that were deemed to be undersized or overmatched...he is a more talented player than PJ was (which is not a knock on PJ)...he is a far better athlete than Hulls was...as good as Bohannon at Iowa...as good as any number of guys that have played at Wisconsin...his game is similar to Aaron Craft (albeit a far, far better shooter)...he is much more athletic than Skiles...Dominic James and Cordell Henry were more than solid at Marquette...he does not have the speed that LewJack did, but, he is a far better shooter, a better passer, and, while not as good defensively, he is strong enough and competitive enough to not just get pushed around or allow it to happen.
 

bonefish1

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He is way more than that...the kid can play, and, has shown it a number of times. He absolutely tries hard, but, he has legit skills as well. Admittedly, I have no idea if what he has done can/will translate to Purdue and the B1G, but, I know that the kid can play, and, I absolutely love how he plays.

There have been plenty of guys that have had success that were deemed to be undersized or overmatched...he is a more talented player than PJ was (which is not a knock on PJ)...he is a far better athlete than Hulls was...as good as Bohannon at Iowa...as good as any number of guys that have played at Wisconsin...his game is similar to Aaron Craft (albeit a far, far better shooter)...he is much more athletic than Skiles...Dominic James and Cordell Henry were more than solid at Marquette...he does not have the speed that LewJack did, but, he is a far better shooter, a better passer, and, while not as good defensively, he is strong enough and competitive enough to not just get pushed around or allow it to happen.
I hope like hell that he's successful. I'm especially interested to see him take on DGL at IL. DGL's mom seems like she's in need of some humble pie.
 

thadoc

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I am fine with your thoughts in general and the point that you are trying to make (and, I hope that you are right certainly), but, no way on the last one...there is nothing in Loyer's game that remotely approaches E'Twaun...that is not a knock on Loyer, but, a testament to just how good E'Twaun was.
Have you watched Loyer?....he's a better shooter than etwaun...great midrange game....slightly taller....might be not as quick but etwaun wasn't fast either....Loyer is a better passer....people wonder why painter didn't really push for hunter to stay....well smith and Loyer are big reasons....
 

DAG10

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Have you watched Loyer?....he's a better shooter than etwaun...great midrange game....slightly taller....might be not as quick but etwaun wasn't fast either....Loyer is a better passer....people wonder why painter didn't really push for hunter to stay....well smith and Loyer are big reasons....
E'Twaun Moore is one of the most underrated players maybe ever to have played at Purdue...and, his nice/long/profitable NBA career is just further testament to that.

Moore was a premier shooter...premier mid-range game...very good defensive player...better with the ball ultimately than given credit for (as, he played PG in the NBA), and, was genuinely elite.

I like Loyer...a lot...but, I compare him way more favorably to someone like Dakota Mathias than E'Twaun Moore...a better version of Ryan Cline...he is a really good player, but, E'Twaun was truly outstanding.
 

boilerball2021

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Have you watched Loyer?....he's a better shooter than etwaun...great midrange game....slightly taller....might be not as quick but etwaun wasn't fast either....Loyer is a better passer....people wonder why painter didn't really push for hunter to stay....well smith and Loyer are big reasons....
Are you saying Loyer is better or even just as good as etwaun?
 
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johnboiler123

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E'Twaun Moore is one of the most underrated players maybe ever to have played at Purdue...and, his nice/long/profitable NBA career is just further testament to that.

Moore was a premier shooter...premier mid-range game...very good defensive player...better with the ball ultimately than given credit for (as, he played PG in the NBA), and, was genuinely elite.

I like Loyer...a lot...but, I compare him way more favorably to someone like Dakota Mathias than E'Twaun Moore...a better version of Ryan Cline...he is a really good player, but, E'Twaun was truly outstanding.
Etwaun is arguably the best player Painter has had yet. Comparing Loyer to him(and making him sound like a superior player) is putting extremely high expectations on a high school senior.
 

DAG10

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Etwaun is arguably the best player Painter has had yet. Comparing Loyer to him(and making him sound like a superior player) is putting extremely high expectations on a high school senior.
Again, I like Loyer...like his game a lot actually, but, not fair to him, or E'Twaun, to somehow compare them...Moore was one of the top HS players in the country coming in...was an All-American in college...and, has a very solid professional career.
 

thadoc

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E'Twaun Moore is one of the most underrated players maybe ever to have played at Purdue...and, his nice/long/profitable NBA career is just further testament to that.

Moore was a premier shooter...premier mid-range game...very good defensive player...better with the ball ultimately than given credit for (as, he played PG in the NBA), and, was genuinely elite.

I like Loyer...a lot...but, I compare him way more favorably to someone like Dakota Mathias than E'Twaun Moore...a better version of Ryan Cline...he is a really good player, but, E'Twaun was truly outstanding.
Loyer is the best 3 point shooter coming out of high school....he has the award to prove it....his mid range game is really good...moore was not that athletic....he really struggled with conditioning times when he was at Purdue....Moore wasn't a great defender either....I think Loyer compares favorably to Moore as a freshman....I watch a lot of hs basketball and Loyer and Smith are 2 of the best guards in the state in terms of bball skill, desire, and savvy that I've seen in some time.....they may not look the part because they don't have the athleticism of Ivey or Gordon but they are great players and types of players we don't get often.....would not be surprised to see both start this year...
 

DAG10

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Loyer is the best 3 point shooter coming out of high school....he has the award to prove it....his mid range game is really good...moore was not that athletic....he really struggled with conditioning times when he was at Purdue....Moore wasn't a great defender either....I think Loyer compares favorably to Moore as a freshman....I watch a lot of hs basketball and Loyer and Smith are 2 of the best guards in the state in terms of bball skill, desire, and savvy that I've seen in some time.....they may not look the part because they don't have the athleticism of Ivey or Gordon but they are great players and types of players we don't get often.....would not be surprised to see both start this year...
Yeah, and, Ryan Cline is LITERALLY in the Basketball HOF for FTs, but, missed a FT that would have put Purdue in the FF...winning a shooting contest is absolutely meaningless.

E'Twaun absolutely was athletic, and, he was a good defender as well.

Again, I like Loyer, but, he does not compare in any way to Moore aside of him being a really good shooter, and, that he, like Moore, has a mid-range game as well.

Another significant difference...E'Twaun Moore led his team to the State Championship in HS, beating Gordon ultimately (never mind running a gauntlet to get there).

Like say, Moore was incredibly underrated, simply because he was not flashy...the guy was REALLY, REALLY good though...I would be thrilled if Loyer was able to come even somewhat close...either way, I look forward to watching him and seeing what he does at/for Purdue.
 

boilerball2021

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Loyer is the best 3 point shooter coming out of high school....he has the award to prove it....his mid range game is really good...moore was not that athletic....he really struggled with conditioning times when he was at Purdue....Moore wasn't a great defender either....I think Loyer compares favorably to Moore as a freshman....I watch a lot of hs basketball and Loyer and Smith are 2 of the best guards in the state in terms of bball skill, desire, and savvy that I've seen in some time.....they may not look the part because they don't have the athleticism of Ivey or Gordon but they are great players and types of players we don't get often.....would not be surprised to see both start this year...
I can’t believe you are doubling down in this. He’s the best 3pt shooter coming out of high school because he won an unguarded 3pt competition against 3 other opponents?

Moore’s career is not the bar in which Loyer should be judged.
 
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buffboiler

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Loyer had showed off his smarts, savvy, and gutsy moves in his games. I hope it would translate to the college.
I think he can be a caliber of his own by the end of his career.

Perhaps I have Purdue glasses on..

Boiler Up!!
 
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bonefish1

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I would argue that he recruits exactly who his system needs at PG. The PG needs to be able to handle the ball to get the offense started, and then be able to catch and shoot open 3s. That's it.

DGL is not a loss.
Disagree 100%. If all you're asking your guard to do is either dump it into the post or shoot when they're open, then you've got PGs who aren't much of a threat. Those are skills any D1 PG should be able to do at a high level.
IMHO, your PG needs to create problems for the defense. They need to get guys open by beating their man and either forcing rotations or taking the ball to the hoop and scoring/drawing a foul.
 

mathboy

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Disagree 100%. If all you're asking your guard to do is either dump it into the post or shoot when they're open, then you've got PGs who aren't much of a threat. Those are skills any D1 PG should be able to do at a high level.
IMHO, your PG needs to create problems for the defense. They need to get guys open by beating their man and either forcing rotations or taking the ball to the hoop and scoring/drawing a foul.
What you suggest is the “Teen Wolf” type player, right. He gets all wooly and just dominates from the backcourt. We’ve had two guys in Carsen and Ivey who could drive the basket and create those situations. In the BIG play they were often swatted away or manhandled with no fouls called (I hate that, but it’s reality).

In todays game almost every good team we face will have sufficient quickness at almost every position to defend the dribble drive. You have to maneuver the defense through clever passing and moving without the ball to have an efficient offense. That means getting intelligent players who can pass, move, and think on their feet. Raw Teen Wolf speed isn’t going to get you wins in the BIG.

:cool:
 

HoosierfanJM

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What you suggest is the “Teen Wolf” type player, right. He gets all wooly and just dominates from the backcourt. We’ve had two guys in Carsen and Ivey who could drive the basket and create those situations. In the BIG play they were often swatted away or manhandled with no fouls called (I hate that, but it’s reality).

In todays game almost every good team we face will have sufficient quickness at almost every position to defend the dribble drive. You have to maneuver the defense through clever passing and moving without the ball to have an efficient offense. That means getting intelligent players who can pass, move, and think on their feet. Raw Teen Wolf speed isn’t going to get you wins in the BIG.

:cool:
Last year Purdue had three guys who could force defensive rotations and double teams by either driving and drawing help, or by catching the ball in the post (Ivey, Williams, Edey). That's a very valuable offensive commodity.
 
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boilerball2021

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Disagree 100%. If all you're asking your guard to do is either dump it into the post or shoot when they're open, then you've got PGs who aren't much of a threat. Those are skills any D1 PG should be able to do at a high level.
IMHO, your PG needs to create problems for the defense. They need to get guys open by beating their man and either forcing rotations or taking the ball to the hoop and scoring/drawing a foul.
That’s not necessary in Painter’s system. It’s like you don’t even understand what Painter’s offense is.
 

SCBoiler1

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Loyer is the best 3 point shooter coming out of high school....he has the award to prove it....his mid range game is really good...moore was not that athletic....he really struggled with conditioning times when he was at Purdue....Moore wasn't a great defender either....I think Loyer compares favorably to Moore as a freshman....I watch a lot of hs basketball and Loyer and Smith are 2 of the best guards in the state in terms of bball skill, desire, and savvy that I've seen in some time.....they may not look the part because they don't have the athleticism of Ivey or Gordon but they are great players and types of players we don't get often.....would not be surprised to see both start this year...
E'twaun was first team All Freshman B1G, averaged 13 points and shot 43% from 3 his freshman year. He lead a team that went 15-3 in conference in scoring and was second in assist as a freshmen.

If Loyer comes close to those numbers I'll be shocked and pleasantly surprised.
 

Gemini95

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E'twaun was first team All Freshman B1G, averaged 13 points and shot 43% from 3 his freshman year. He lead a team that went 15-3 in conference in scoring and was second in assist as a freshmen.

If Loyer comes close to those numbers I'll be shocked and pleasantly surprised.
If Newman comes close to those numbers I will be pleasantly surprised. If Loyer does I'll eat my shoe.
 

northside100

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Disagree 100%. If all you're asking your guard to do is either dump it into the post or shoot when they're open, then you've got PGs who aren't much of a threat. Those are skills any D1 PG should be able to do at a high level.
IMHO, your PG needs to create problems for the defense. They need to get guys open by beating their man and either forcing rotations or taking the ball to the hoop and scoring/drawing a foul.
Doesn't matter whether it's the PG (IMHO) or another position but it certainly helps to have someone who can break down the defense or otherwise get their own shot.
 
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northside100

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Etwaun is arguably the best player Painter has had yet. Comparing Loyer to him(and making him sound like a superior player) is putting extremely high expectations on a high school senior.
I agree that comparing Loyer (or any freshman) to E'Twaun, who was an all time great player, is unfair.

Are you calling EM 'arguably the best player Painter has had yet' based on his NBA career? If not, what is the metric you're using in comparing him to players like Biggie (second in NPOY voting), Johnson, Edwards or even Ivey, all of whom had higher All American honors than E'Twuan's third team AA his senior year. Not a knock on E'Twuan, just seems like a stretch.
 

DAG10

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I agree that comparing Loyer (or any freshman) to E'Twaun, who was an all time great player, is unfair.

Are you calling EM 'arguably the best player Painter has had yet' based on his NBA career? If not, what is the metric you're using in comparing him to players like Biggie (second in NPOY voting), Johnson, Edwards or even Ivey, all of whom had higher All American honors than E'Twuan's third team AA his senior year. Not a knock on E'Twuan, just seems like a stretch.
A case could be made for Biggie, but, he was not as impactful from the outset as Moore...for that matter, none of those guys were. And, he was never the focal point of anything at Purdue, while, each of those other guys were.
 

northside100

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Yeah, and, Ryan Cline is LITERALLY in the Basketball HOF for FTs, but, missed a FT that would have put Purdue in the FF...winning a shooting contest is absolutely meaningless.

E'Twaun absolutely was athletic, and, he was a good defender as well.

Again, I like Loyer, but, he does not compare in any way to Moore aside of him being a really good shooter, and, that he, like Moore, has a mid-range game as well.

Another significant difference...E'Twaun Moore led his team to the State Championship in HS, beating Gordon ultimately (never mind running a gauntlet to get there).

Like say, Moore was incredibly underrated, simply because he was not flashy...the guy was REALLY, REALLY good though...I would be thrilled if Loyer was able to come even somewhat close...either way, I look forward to watching him and seeing what he does at/for Purdue.
Agree that EM was fantastic and underrated and that any comparison to him is unfair to Loyer.

I do disagree with a couple of your points 1) EM was just an ok athlete and was not alw ays in great condition. Robbie Hummel has done several interviews where he gives EM a hard time about being in bad shape and not being athletic. It's done in a playful way but he's not joking (sorry, no links) 2) Yes, EM won a state championship as a senior, but that team also had Angel Garcia, who was a very highly rated prospect and Kawaan Short, who was an outstanding athlete and very good hs basketball player.
 

northside100

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A case could be made for Biggie, but, he was not as impactful from the outset as Moore...for that matter, none of those guys were. And, he was never the focal point of anything at Purdue, while, each of those other guys were.
If you want to argue EM as 'most impactful freshman' I'm on board. The only argument I can see for EM as 'best player' would be based on the fact that he consistently performed at a very high level for four years while Johnson wasn't as impactful as a freshman and the other three only stayed two or three years.
 
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