You're right.
Here's what he said:
" very well have made the FF if it weren’t for the Minnesota nightmare."
2021 Recruiting
- Thread starter TX4GB
- Start date
You're right.
Here's what he said:
" very well have made the FF if it weren’t for the Minnesota nightmare."
This is exactly correct. When coaches find talent that have success in the NBA, it's definitely a boost to recruiting. Cal has done that, in some suspect ways of course. Mich St (I won't name their asshole coach) has done the same thing.
I am not saying that. I think you take whichever one is ready to commit and probably try to figure out away to take both, if Painter can get both players. My point is that it is hard to predict which will end up being more valuable over the course of his college career and if the class ends up being Furst and Kaufman, I will be ecstatic.
This conversation is way over simplified.
What a recruit accomplishes at the school is also important. It's not like Oklahoma suddenly took off when they had Trae Young - they were hardly a tournament team.
You also have to be at a school to make the player associated with it. These guys that Hardaway brought in at Memphis - they did nothing notable, they'll leave early and get drafted and hardly anyone will ever know they played at Memphis.
People can roll off a guy like Carsen Edwards being associated with Purdue because he did so much as a player at Purdue, and Purdue had great teams.
The programs you mention - Kentucky, Michigan State....those are part of a small group of schools that routinely have brought in that level of talent. Very few schools outside of that group have remained consistent in winning and recruiting.
As I mentioned in another thread, very few Big Ten programs have landed 5 star "one and done" players - there's been 5 in the last 4 years out of all of the 14 Big Ten programs.
In the last 8 years, I think IU's had the 2nd most 5 star players behind Michigan State. That sure as hell hasn't translated to much.
Recruiting is a 10+ layer combination of things. Some of which you can control, some of which you can't.
If you say so.
However, it does seem like most of your position is based on woulda, shoulda, coulda.
Oklahoma has had more than Trae Young. Blake Griffin ring a bell as a two year player that led them to an Elite 8? Buddy Held sound familiar? And they've made it further in the tournament than Purdue has in the last 50 years, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.
Same deal at Memphis. Runner up in 2008. Derrick Rose ring a bell as a 1 year player? Penny Hardaway has been there what, 2 years?
Players go where they get developed into NBA draftees, or where they can display they're an NBA first rounder. You can argue all you want, but that's what matters. And Painter is a fantastic coach, and I wouldn't trade him. But he's not shown he can develop players into high level draft picks. Yes, Swanigan was a first rounder, but he had physical limitations as an NBA pick. Carl Landry has probably been the most successful NBA player that Painter has coached and he was recruited by Keady as a junior college transfer. Moore was the second most successful NBA player and no one outside of Purdue knows who he is. Carsen is great, and if he has success in the NBA, he'll be a great selling point for Painter.
So is it the coach or the school's name?
You're saying 2 different things.
Oklahoma has had 3 different coaches in the span you reference.
Memphis has had 4 different coaches in the span you reference (and hasn't been to the tournament in 7 years).
But then you're pinning it on Painter....
A guy like Cuonzo has landed some big names, a couple are in the NBA...but it also hasn't resulted in good programs.
The debate got a little off-topic here. Purdue will have Ivey, Morton, Newman, Edey as second year players when Ingram gets here. Plus the players already currently getting time (minus Eastern). Then add in Furst. A player like Ingram could come in and be that final piece that takes the team to the top his freshman year. I see him more like a 2 year player, but assuming he is a one and done, if he can take you to a final four with the talent around him, you take him all day everyday. If he is a 2 year player, I think the expectations would be just as high as with the baby Boilers. From a talent standpoint they would be right there.
The other side would be Kaufman. Would he have the same impact immediately? I’m not sure. Would you love to have him in year 3 playing with the previously mentioned players? Absolutely. Especially if he continues to work, his versatility would be incredible.
Painter said he is willing to over-sign, and he is still targeting both. I wouldn’t make this an either or just yet.
Somebody not being talked about as much is Wesley. He reminds me of the guards Butler has had success with over the last 10 years. The number crunch is real, but he is somebody I would love to see Purdue snag. The problem is that would mean somebody else is out the door and somebody that plays the same position as heavy as Purdue is in guards currently.
The other side would be Kaufman. Would he have the same impact immediately? I’m not sure. Would you love to have him in year 3 playing with the previously mentioned players? Absolutely. Especially if he continues to work, his versatility would be incredible.
Painter said he is willing to over-sign, and he is still targeting both. I wouldn’t make this an either or just yet.
Somebody not being talked about as much is Wesley. He reminds me of the guards Butler has had success with over the last 10 years. The number crunch is real, but he is somebody I would love to see Purdue snag. The problem is that would mean somebody else is out the door and somebody that plays the same position as heavy as Purdue is in guards currently.
Dude, it's both. But you can't just be a good coach and not get the players. Painter's already a good coach. He just hasn't gotten NBA caliber players. And that's what you generally need in order to make it to the Final Four and beyond.
Again, don't mistake this for being critical of Painter. I get it's not easy. But what I've not seen from Painter is using success to gain recruiting momentum. Maybe that's Purdue admin's issue and maybe it's Painter's recruiting abilities. But when you're a good coach and gain recruiting momentum, it all comes together. Coach K was always a good coach. But he started winning big when the recruits came at Duke. Duke wasn't some basketball powerhouse prior to Coach K. Same at Villanova. Jay Wright used the success as momentum for recruiting. Unfortunately, things didn't progress well for Painter after the Baby Boilers and momentum was lost.
I think he is announcing a top 10, not a final 10. He will still consider schools not on his list.
Wake me up if we make his final 1. These top 10 lists are pointless. Especially if they are still considering others as well
I get your point, but somewhat surprisingly Duke was actually great in the 60s. 3 final 4s, and 1 more in 1978. 1980 Elite 8 and Coach K arrived for the 1980 season. Before my time, but I think Duke had a pretty good history prior to Coach K.
We beat Duke in ‘80 to reach the Final 4.
As you alluded, there's a lot that goes into recruiting. You touch very briefly on on the admin's issue -- I mean no one can possibly argue that the basketball program has been flush with resources. Our basketball-specific facilities (not playing arena) are the worst offerings in the Big Ten. I mean a school like Rutgers blows us away.
Like you said, it's not just one thing...it's a combination of many things that impacts recruiting. West Lafayette is perfectly fine, but you go visit Ann Arbor or Madison, then come visit West Lafayette...it's not really a close comparison.
We often talk about what we're not doing right. Well, where do we have the power to improve upon that's not an "intangible"? Facilities is one, support staff is another, etc.
Overall, the Big Ten as a whole isn't even getting a lot of these 5 star guys. There's only been a handful in the last several years....1 in 2020....0 in 2019.
Corey Evans from Rivals posted an article today that included Purdue not being out of the running for Max Christie. Duke and Sparty lead, but he wasn't counting out O$U, Purdue and even Northwestern.
Doubtful, but interesting.
Doubtful, but interesting.
Agree, although, IMHO, I hope he redshirts in his best interest. I suspect not as it seems they are going to need him.
I'm beginning to think Wesley is not a consolation prize for the 2nd scholly if Ingram and Kaufman go elsewhere. If he commits, you take it and don't look back. Not great competition here, but you can't have enough athletic 6'5 guards that can dribble and shoot in today's college basketball game. Tons of upside here IMO.
The one negative is that we will have 6 guards already on the roster when he gets to college.
Furst gave his height as 6’10 Apparently, which I don’t believe. He is only a couple of inches taller than Wesley, who may very well be taller than 6’5. But I am thinking Furst might be closer to 6’8 than 6’10.
Very true. Playing time could be a major negative. Ingram is the best roster fit in a perfect world for this class.
I'm just getting greedy thinking of a 3 guard rotation of IT, Ivey, Morton, Newman, and Wesley a few years down the road. That backcourt would do some serious damage.
IU articles are popping up in my google feed. This was around Trey Kaufman:
https://www.thedailyhoosier.com/iu-...an-talks-restarting-aau-games-and-recruiting/
A couple interesting questions there:
How about with Purdue?
TK: I’d say the same thing. Coach Painter has talked to me more than ever along with Coach Brantley. Especially those two schools (IU and Purdue) are wanting to know my timeline and wanting to know what I’m thinking.
With Caleb Furst committed to Purdue, does that change anything for you?
TK: I don’t think so. I think we play different as long as I can guard quicker players. Offensively obviously he is a really good player, but I think I can do things that he can’t do on the offensive side, and there are things that he can do, so it’s different.
https://www.thedailyhoosier.com/iu-...an-talks-restarting-aau-games-and-recruiting/
A couple interesting questions there:
How about with Purdue?
TK: I’d say the same thing. Coach Painter has talked to me more than ever along with Coach Brantley. Especially those two schools (IU and Purdue) are wanting to know my timeline and wanting to know what I’m thinking.
With Caleb Furst committed to Purdue, does that change anything for you?
TK: I don’t think so. I think we play different as long as I can guard quicker players. Offensively obviously he is a really good player, but I think I can do things that he can’t do on the offensive side, and there are things that he can do, so it’s different.
This sounds like we are still definitely in the mix. I know IU guys really feel like he's already a silent commit. This sounds like he hasn't committed to anyone and with little Arch just now getting personally involved...seems odd.
Kaufman and Ingram... maybe a tad bit of Wesley but a long shot.
Blake Wesley, one of Purdue's few 2021 offers still available, is releasing his Top 12 this evening at 7 pm EST.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Who ready ? <a href="https://t.co/zl06Mt8HWv">pic.twitter.com/zl06Mt8HWv</a></p>— Blakewesley3 (@blakewesley0) <a href="">August 26, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
I think this kid could be really good, and would love to have him, but 12 really? Why even cut it down at that point?
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Who ready ? <a href="https://t.co/zl06Mt8HWv">pic.twitter.com/zl06Mt8HWv</a></p>— Blakewesley3 (@blakewesley0) <a href="">August 26, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
I think this kid could be really good, and would love to have him, but 12 really? Why even cut it down at that point?
Top anything's are just idiotic to me. It just says these are the teams recruiting me best, so if you aren't on the list you better try harder. I'm still completely open in my recruitment though.
I guess it's just a publicity thing, but top 12. I can understand when a kid releases their final whatever that would definitely make it more manageable for the kid and family. Allow them to really focus on those school, coaches, relationships.
Serious question. Do teams who don't make players top lists just say welp guess we didn't do well enough with this kid. Time to move on to the next, or do they just step up their recruitment of said player? I don't see how this would change anything. So why even do it?
I guess it's just a publicity thing, but top 12. I can understand when a kid releases their final whatever that would definitely make it more manageable for the kid and family. Allow them to really focus on those school, coaches, relationships.
Serious question. Do teams who don't make players top lists just say welp guess we didn't do well enough with this kid. Time to move on to the next, or do they just step up their recruitment of said player? I don't see how this would change anything. So why even do it?
Any list that is not the final choice is just another way for a kid to stroke himself.
We are first in the list
! Kudos to Indiana St. They did thump IU not long ago.
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