1940 NCAA Champions

[collegehoopsfan123]

I did not know this.

Purdue won the Big Ten with a 10 - 2 record, 16 - 4 overall in regular season.
IU was second in the BT with a 9 - 3 record, 17 - 3 overall in regular season.

Purdue's 2 conference losses were both to IU.
IU 3 conference losses were at Minnesota, at Northwestern, and at Ohio State.
But the winner of the Big Ten is always get the NCAA invite.

According to wikipedia, "Purdue was invited to the 8-team NCAA Tournament, turned down the invite,
saying IU should play in the tournament instead".

We all know about Purdue's 1932 National Championship - Premo Poretta Power Poll National Championship.
But it looks like Purdue might have won their 1st NCAA Tournament National Championship in 1940 had they accepted the bid.

Guess IU got a quality assist on their 1st banner, crazy! I bet many Purdue and IU fans do not even know this.........

 

[tenwest]

I did not know this.

Purdue won the Big Ten with a 10 - 2 record, 16 - 4 overall in regular season.
IU was second in the BT with a 9 - 3 record, 17 - 3 overall in regular season.

Purdue's 2 conference losses were both to IU.
IU 3 conference losses were at Minnesota, at Northwestern, and at Ohio State.
But the winner of the Big Ten is always get the NCAA invite.

According to wikipedia, "Purdue was invited to the 8-team NCAA Tournament, turned down the invite,
saying IU should play in the tournament instead".

We all know about Purdue's 1932 National Championship - Premo Poretta Power Poll National Championship.
But it looks like Purdue might have won their 1st NCAA Tournament National Championship in 1940 had they accepted the bid.

Guess IU got a quality assist on their 1st banner, crazy! I bet many Purdue and IU fans do not even know this.........

My how things have changed. If the Music City Bowl happens in 1940, do we give TN the win? 🤣

 

[Professor Emeritus]

I did not know this.

Purdue won the Big Ten with a 10 - 2 record, 16 - 4 overall in regular season.
IU was second in the BT with a 9 - 3 record, 17 - 3 overall in regular season.

Purdue's 2 conference losses were both to IU.
IU 3 conference losses were at Minnesota, at Northwestern, and at Ohio State.
But the winner of the Big Ten is always get the NCAA invite.

According to wikipedia, "Purdue was invited to the 8-team NCAA Tournament, turned down the invite,
saying IU should play in the tournament instead".

We all know about Purdue's 1932 National Championship - Premo Poretta Power Poll National Championship.
But it looks like Purdue might have won their 1st NCAA Tournament National Championship in 1940 had they accepted the bid.

Guess IU got a quality assist on their 1st banner, crazy! I bet many Purdue and IU fans do not even know this.........

If I recall correctly, Lambert objected to playing in post-season events where any of the games were held in a venue not on a college campus, hence the decision to decline.

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

If I recall correctly, Lambert objected to playing in post-season events where any of the games were held in a venue not on a college campus, hence the decision to decline.

Interesting. It was played in Indianapolis and Kansas City, MO according to sports reference college basketball. I wonder what the venues were?

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Interesting. It was played in Indianapolis and Kansas City, MO according to sports reference college basketball. I wonder what the venues were?

In Indy the games were at Butler in the fieldhouse, but in KC it was at a place called the Municipal Auditorium.

Perhaps there was something else to it, but I had always heard about Lambert's aversion to non-college arenas.

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

In Indy the games were at Butler in the fieldhouse, but in KC it was at a place called the Municipal Auditorium.

Perhaps there was something else to it, but I had always heard about Lambert's aversion to non-college arenas.

Good info. If Lambert had accepted, Purdue would have played at Butler until the title game. Looks like the title game would have been inside the Municipal Auditorium. Like you said, had to have been more to it. Still stunned to learn that IU's 1940 banner is because of Purdue / Lambert.
Guess you learn something new every day. What an assist to your arch-rival.

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

What was Lambert thinking?

 

[goboilers2]

Had he only known how 19 year old IU fans would still be talking about IU's 1940 banner in 2022, he would have likely done things different.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

What was Lambert thinking?

I believe he was prescient about the "professionalization"/commercialization of intercollegiate athletics and found it distasteful.

I remember more than once hearing Wooden tell a story about Lambert getting on him a bit because Lambert thought Wooden had temporarily lost sight of why he was attending college, which was to earn a degree and not a pro contract.

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

I believe he was prescient about the "professionalization"/commercialization of intercollegiate athletics and found it distasteful.

I remember more than once hearing Wooden tell a story about Lambert getting on him a bit because Lambert thought Wooden had temporarily lost sight of why he was attending college, which was to earn a degree and not a pro contract.

I get it, but there could be 2 banners in Mackey instead of 1.

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

And 4 banners in Bloomington.

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

Had he only known how 19 year old IU fans would still be talking about IU's 1940 banner in 2022, he would have likely done things different.

Not sure if this post is directed at me, but I am a Purdue fan.

 

[destewart]

So what do you think Piggy did when he left Purdue?

 

[pig1960]

Lambert wasn’t opposed to non-college venues. He was opposed to additional basketball games pulling students away from education. Oh how times have changed- I dint come to college to do classes , I came to football. The early NCAA banners are a joke regardless and anyone pointing at one is kinda stupid.

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

So what do you think Piggy did when he left Purdue?

Lambert wasn’t opposed to non-college venues. He was opposed to additional basketball games pulling students away from education. Oh how times have changed- I dint come to college to do classes , I came to football. The early NCAA banners are a joke regardless and anyone pointing at one is kinda stupid.

Good insight. I think Purdue's 1932 Premo Porretta National Championship banner in Mackey is pretty cool. I also think its interesting to learn that IU has their 1940 NCAA Tournament National Championship banner because of Purdue. Wish Purdue had that 1940 banner up in Mackey, too.

 

[boil65er]

You're wrong.
Indiana was selected to go to the tournament over Purdue because the selection committee thought Indiana was the better team.
The committee was made up of Tony Hinkle, Athletic director of Butler, Elmer Layden, Athletic Director of Notre Dame and the Athletic director of Marquette. (Name escapes me).
The beginning of the Purdue/IU bad blood.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

You're wrong.
Indiana was selected to go to the tournament over Purdue because the selection committee thought Indiana was the better team.
The committee was made up of Tony Hinkle, Athletic director of Butler, Elmer Layden, Athletic Director of Notre Dame and the Athletic director of Marquette. (Name escapes me).
The beginning of the Purdue/IU bad blood.

So there was a period before 1974 when teams who did not win their conference could be deliberately bypassed?

I was under the impression that conference champs had the right of first refusal but certainly stand corrected if not the case.

 

[Hatchets7times]

I did not know this.

Purdue won the Big Ten with a 10 - 2 record, 16 - 4 overall in regular season.
IU was second in the BT with a 9 - 3 record, 17 - 3 overall in regular season.

Purdue's 2 conference losses were both to IU.
IU 3 conference losses were at Minnesota, at Northwestern, and at Ohio State.
But the winner of the Big Ten is always get the NCAA invite.

According to wikipedia, "Purdue was invited to the 8-team NCAA Tournament, turned down the invite,
saying IU should play in the tournament instead".

We all know about Purdue's 1932 National Championship - Premo Poretta Power Poll National Championship.
But it looks like Purdue might have won their 1st NCAA Tournament National Championship in 1940 had they accepted the bid.

Guess IU got a quality assist on their 1st banner, crazy! I bet many Purdue and IU fans do not even know this.........

Reaching..
Geez...
Pathetic...

 

[mryankee2397]

lambert did not want to play in the ncaa as he thought it was for second place teams. he didnt accept nit either because he thought it was run by gamblers.

 

[goboilers2]

Not sure if this post is directed at me, but I am a Purdue fan.

No, it was not. Just to the typical IU fan.

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

lambert did not want to play in the ncaa as he thought it was for second place teams. he didnt accept nit either because he thought it was run by gamblers.

interesting!

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

Reaching..
Geez...
Pathetic...

thank you for adding to the conversation.

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

lambert did not want to play in the ncaa as he thought it was for second place teams. he didnt accept nit either because he thought it was run by gamblers.

Well if Lambert had accepted, Purdue would likely have 2 banners hanging in Mackey:
1932 Premo-Porretta Power Poll National Championship
1940 NCAA Tournament National Championship
Just saying, and I would not mind if he had accepted the invite either.

 

[YouSayPotato]

The story I heard waaaay back in the 1960s was that the Purdue faculty senate voted not to go because too much class time would be missed. The NCAA then invited IU as the second choice.

 

[boil65er]

Wikipedia is wrong.
Indiana was invited.

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

Wikipedia is wrong.
Indiana was invited.

The Big Ten Champ always got the invite in those early years. Purdue had 2 conference losses and Indiana had 3 conference losses. Purdue won the conference outright. Why would Indiana get invited ahead of Purdue? The conference loss column is the only criteria.
And if Wikipedia is wrong, can you provide an accurate source? Still looks like Purdue should have been the Big Ten team in the 1940 NCAA tournament. Thanks.

 

[YouSayPotato]

And if Wikipedia is wrong, can you provide an accurate source?

Sorry to break the news to you but there wasn't much internet back in 1940.

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

All I can find after googling is an IU journalist and Wikipedia stating Tony Hinkle is said to have said Indiana was considered the "most representative team" in the Midwest and that Indiana swept Purdue for Purdue's only 2 conference losses. That is great and all BUT

10 -2 Purdue in Big Ten or Indiana 9 -3 in Big Ten. The numbers don't lie. Looks fairly questionable to me. How does the outright Big Ten regular season champion NOT get invited to the NCAA tournament ahead of the 2nd place team, IU? Appreciate everyone's stories, but something is very questionable here.

 

[Wildmanroom]

Found this blog—sounds like PU turned down the invite due to travel costs and missing class time. And don’t forget the NCAA tournament did not have the prestige of the NIT at the time.

Tipping Off March Madness: Tony Hinkle, Butler Fieldhouse, and the 1940 NCAA Tournament

Note: Nearly a year ago when this story appeared, no one could have envisioned Hinkle Fieldhouse would once again play host to March Madness after 81 years. By 1940, Hoosier Hysteria had a strongho…

historichinklefieldhouse.com

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

Found this blog—sounds like PU turned down the invite due to travel costs and missing class time. And don’t forget the NCAA tournament did not have the prestige of the NIT at the time.

Tipping Off March Madness: Tony Hinkle, Butler Fieldhouse, and the 1940 NCAA Tournament

Note: Nearly a year ago when this story appeared, no one could have envisioned Hinkle Fieldhouse would once again play host to March Madness after 81 years. By 1940, Hoosier Hysteria had a strongho…

historichinklefieldhouse.com

Thanks! Do you know what year the NCAA over took the NIT in prestige? Someone once told me mid-1950's.

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

Found this blog—sounds like PU turned down the invite due to travel costs and missing class time. And don’t forget the NCAA tournament did not have the prestige of the NIT at the time.

Tipping Off March Madness: Tony Hinkle, Butler Fieldhouse, and the 1940 NCAA Tournament

Note: Nearly a year ago when this story appeared, no one could have envisioned Hinkle Fieldhouse would once again play host to March Madness after 81 years. By 1940, Hoosier Hysteria had a strongho…

historichinklefieldhouse.com

Yeah, this is the best source I could find, too. Regardless of what the real truth is or if Lambert of Purdue turned down the invite,

10-2 Purdue should be in the 1940 NCAA Tournament before 9-3 Indiana. Those Big Ten standing speak loudly. Go Boilers!

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

Thanks! Do you know what year the NCAA over took the NIT in prestige? Someone once told me mid-1950's.

Looks like it was the early 1950's. http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/nit.html

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

Yeah, this is the best source I could find, too. Regardless of what the real truth is or if Lambert of Purdue turned down the invite,

10-2 Purdue should be in the 1940 NCAA Tournament before 9-3 Indiana. Those Big Ten standing speak loudly. Go Boilers!

I hope Lambert truly did turn down the 1940 NCAA invite.
Otherwise, IU should NOT have been included in the 1940 NCAA Tournament field.

 

[meenie]

I am pretty sure it was because Purdue didn’t get invited to play in the nit, which he considered the bigger tourney of the two at the time. You could actually play in both at one time if you were invited to both. Both postseason tourneys

 

[boil65er]

Some info:
Tony Hinkle at Butler coached against Branch McCracken, Head Coach at Ball State until 1938 when Branch went to Indiana.
Ward Lambert out recruited Hinkle for John Wooden in 1929.
There were no automatic Qualifiers in 1940.
Normal protocol is:
1. Conference wins
2. Head to head
Hinkle et al went with head to head because Indiana beat Purdue twice that season by 7 and 6 points.

 

[YouSayPotato]

We really need to understand the mood of the nation in 1940. WWII was raging in Europe. Hitler invaded Scandinavia, France, Belgium. The Battle of Britain was fought. US industries were providing massive amounts of war munitions to Great Britain. The entry of the US into the war seemed evermore inevitable. There really wasn’t much focus on college basketball.

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

I am pretty sure it was because Purdue didn’t get invited to play in the nit, which he considered the bigger tourney of the two at the time. You could actually play in both at one time if you were invited to both. Both postseason tourneys

You are probably right! I posted an article in this thread where the NCAA did not overtake the NIT in prestige until the early 1950's. What you said here sounds like the real truth to me about why Lambert would turn down the 1940 NCAA invite. From the article I posted, sounds like UK in 1951 or KU in 1952 might be the 1st year of NCAA prestige over NIT. What does this truly say about 1939 -1950 NCAA champions? Maybe not quite on the same level as 1951 - today NCAA tournament champions? It would appear so.

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

Some info:
Tony Hinkle at Butler coached against Branch McCracken, Head Coach at Ball State until 1938 when Branch went to Indiana.
Ward Lambert out recruited Hinkle for John Wooden in 1929.
There were no automatic Qualifiers in 1940.
Normal protocol is:
1. Conference wins
2. Head to head
Hinkle et al went with head to head because Indiana beat Purdue twice that season by 7 and 6 points.

Thanks for sharing!

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

Thanks for sharing!

Some info:
Tony Hinkle at Butler coached against Branch McCracken, Head Coach at Ball State until 1938 when Branch went to Indiana.
Ward Lambert out recruited Hinkle for John Wooden in 1929.
There were no automatic Qualifiers in 1940.
Normal protocol is:
1. Conference wins
2. Head to head
Hinkle et al went with head to head because Indiana beat Purdue twice that season by 7 and 6 points.

You got conference wins at 1. Purdue. I wonder if Hinkle had gotten Wooden in 1929 instead of Lambert, if Hinkle then would have selected Purdue for 1940 NCAA tournament? Hinkle might have based on this info. Still looks like Purdue should have gone with the better conference record.

 

[cobra.]

We really need to understand the mood of the nation in 1940. WWII was raging in Europe. Hitler invaded Scandinavia, France, Belgium. The Battle of Britain was fought. US industries were providing massive amounts of war munitions to Great Britain. The entry of the US into the war seemed evermore inevitable. There really wasn’t much focus on college basketball.

So IU - by bragging about their 1940 NCAA championships - is really just saying they care more about basketball than stopping Hitler? Thank you. Noted. IU hates America.

Don't forget - IU's second championship was during the Korean War. Once again - IU not concerned with stopping the spread of communism. I guess that's why red is one of their colors...