another 3 star DB w/ great size. With a small class for '16, glad we are holding out for 3 star guys. Long's commit should take our current 85th rank class up some notches.
Welcome J. Long
- Thread starter PaBoiler78
- Start date
Agree. Good size and speed. Unimpressive offers but it is early.
While I agree with the notion his recruiting has been very poor, this year almost doesnt count since we have so few schollies.
We wont be able to compare Purdue to hardly any other school, but that wont stop people from talking about the ranking
While I agree with the notion his recruiting has been very poor, this year almost doesnt count since we have so few schollies.
We wont be able to compare Purdue to hardly any other school, but that wont stop people from talking about the ranking
I used to be like you and only cared about the star rating of a player. But after years and years of our top rated players accomplishing jack shit on the field I realized football is completely different than hoops.
Now I just sit back and watch these guys develop. Guys like a Danny E, or Bentley, Edison, etc
Actually, I largely agree with you 69,
Football is way more variable. So it is meaningless to sit back and say this player, or even this entire class sucks. However, I do think ratings are a reasonable vauge indicator of success, especially when looking at multiple years. Completely ignoring them is as silly as swearing by them. And Im not saying you do ignore them.
Im very interested to see how Hazell's recruits contribute on the field this year, but after watching the last two years and looking at how recruiting has gone, I dont feel the need to 'wait and see'.
Each class for Hazell will have a good jewel or four, but never enough to field a team. I would argue for every key success this staff has had recruiting, Bentely, Robinson, Blough, etc., they miss just as much. TE, DE, and safety are of particular immediate concern.
Football is way more variable. So it is meaningless to sit back and say this player, or even this entire class sucks. However, I do think ratings are a reasonable vauge indicator of success, especially when looking at multiple years. Completely ignoring them is as silly as swearing by them. And Im not saying you do ignore them.
Im very interested to see how Hazell's recruits contribute on the field this year, but after watching the last two years and looking at how recruiting has gone, I dont feel the need to 'wait and see'.
Each class for Hazell will have a good jewel or four, but never enough to field a team. I would argue for every key success this staff has had recruiting, Bentely, Robinson, Blough, etc., they miss just as much. TE, DE, and safety are of particular immediate concern.
Your statement is incredibly ignorant. You do realize that the first players Hazell even recruited won't even be draft eligible until the end of the season right?
You do realize that on average, this coach isn't doing any worse (or better) recruiting wise than the last one right? And Hope was lauded by many "experts" on here to be a good recruiter. So why is Hazell not a good recruiter?
I think you could say that ever coach out there misses more than they hit...most teams give out HUNDREDS of scholarship offers and only get about 25 commits.
The biggest issue with Purdue football from about 2007-Present (outside of our current OC) has definitely been talent development. Hope recruited a bunch of athletes that never got turned into good football players. This coach is taking an approach to seek out diamond in the rough types that have solid football back grounds and want to be at Purdue. Recruiting IS half of the battle....but realistically the other half is development of players. I think this staff has done a decent job of developing an OL that was devoid of experience, talent and depth. I think this staff has tried to do a good job with a group of WRs they mostly did not recruit and a position that again...lacked depth, experience and talent when they walked in the door.
The constant shitting on the staff is getting annoying. Its clear to see that things CAN be better. The question is, will they. If they don't and Hazell doesnt make the right moves he doesn't get year #5 and we move on. If he does, I think this team has the ability to recruit better than previous Purdue teams, develop talent better than previous Purdue teams and achieve at higher levels than previous Purdue teams by rebuilding the baseline of football talent in the program. I really and truly think that is happening....it has just yet to manifest itself in results. That said, take a look at our D and then our O....one of those units IMO is vastly better under the new coach and one is vastly worse. The shame in that is that our O is so epically bad it makes the D look worse than they actually are...having to play damn near 38-40 minutes EVERY GAME!
Absolutely right. I really like our defensive coaches. Taver Johnson is good, and Freeman is a rising star. I like Coach Carter, but our DL (especially DEs) has been largely AWOL the first two seasons. Our defense would have been better the last two seasons if our offense wasn't so anemic. The defensive guys get gassed in second halves of games because they are on the field so much. I hope and pray that we find our QB and that our offense actually starts to click. I think Bridge, Parker, and Malone are solid coaches. Not sure about Jafar Williams, but last season the RBs showed signs of life and ripped off some long runs at times (our OL was vastly improved). Most people already know my opinion on Shoop.
Anyone who doesn't look at the big picture in determining recruiting success is a moron.
That being said, Danny Hope signed a recruiting class in 2012 that was ranked "fifth" in the Big Ten by Rivals point system. However, it was a massive class - 26 commits! It ranked five spots ahead of Wisconsin's recruiting class that had 12 kids and more four star recruits than our 26 person class. It wasn't a bad class by any means, but again, it was a bit misleading given the size (and almost all just 3 stars - again not bad - we needed depth).
So will our "small" class be fairly ranked in a point system ranking? Probably not. But again, we are so far behind the 8-ball in terms of talent and depth - a small class of mostly 3 stars is just not going to get it done.
Right now in the Big Ten, 7 teams already have 10 or more commits. Only Purdue and IU have fewer than 6. And yes, our class is going to be smaller than others - but it's not going to be 10-15 people smaller compared to every single school. Some, yes, but certainly not all.
So it's a decent start, but it's still nothing you look at and get excited about. Our talent level and depth is below average and I don't see too many other places where we're going to be making that up (unique systems, great coaching, etc.).
You can get into the weeds based on number of 3 stars/2 stars, rankings by points, rankings by averages and I think if you did all that work, Hazell currently would be slightly worse.
However, the difference is not significant and the simple fact is that neither coach has recruited close to where we need to be at. No reason to argue between the 2, both have done a poor job.
Using average class rankings Hope had on average the 64th recruiting class. On Average Hazell has had the 65th best class.
CLEARLY SO MUCH WORSE!
Or maybe that vettes out my point that he's basically no better or worse than the last guy and that the biggest difference seems to be the quality of FOOTBALL player vs. the quality of ATHLETE.
Thats skewed by the 2011 class which was artificially low due to its size. How is it in terms of average stars?
This class will be lowly ranked due to its size. Shall we compare then? If we keep nabbing 3 stars like we have been this year, it will likely still be very very close.
The point is, if Hazell wins 7 regular season games in a year, this is all a moot point.
Yeah, this class will be low ranked due to size, doesnt change my point. That class ranking number is skewed.
As for the wins, i agree. Hope he can, but until he finds a QB i dont see it happening.
What are you trying to say?
His kids are too young to reasonably expect them to make an impact? They are young, but he should be able to get a third to a half of his kids out there and looking good, and that will be the true evaluation of his recruiting for me. Especially if he is this good/great coach that walked in after Hope decimated the program and roster and he needs 3+ years to rebuild. Ive never liked that strain of logic, but if its true, we should see it this year.
Im also not sure what your point is? You dont like that I dont like the coaching? Thats not the point of my post. I am saying its pretty reasonable to expect the last two classes to be not good because rankings arent meaningless.
In truth, I have missed your outrage & anger. Welcome back!
To the larger points, the defensive staff is okay. I like that we have real linebackers again. The lack of pass rush really bothers me. No good de's nor creative blitzes.
Here's the thing.
1. Hope's best class was actually his last class before getting fired. Then obviously there was the class that was mostly committeed by the time Hazell was hired (including Etling).
2. Hope's recruits include Danny Anthrop, Austin Appleby, Cameron Posey, Anthony Brown, Ryan Watson, etc. We also lost a few of our better offensive players on the team - Mostert/Hunt and BJ Knauf and looking to fill those holes with no obvious answer. And also Ryan Russell is gone (a lone somewhat bright spot on a dismal line). Who are we looking to fill the voids? Ryan Watson (Hope recruit) and Evan Panfil (transition year recruit).
It's not to say there are 0 players on this team with an impact that aren't Hazell's recruits, but for people saying Hope left "the cupboard bare"….we're relying on his recruits heavily still, which obviously is not a good thing or a good indicator of our current talent level.
3. Even if you aren't at a point where Hazell's first recruits are not seniors, there are still good indicators of things. Coaches these days don't get 4 years of passes to see success. You can see indicators of improvements in several areas. Recruiting is a pretty obvious and big one. There has not been any indicator of recruiting changing over the last 3 years. A successful implementation of systems/coaching strategy. Why you're trying to implement such a "complex" system that it takes years to learn it - is beyond me. You either have to make adjustments or figure something out because you don't get that long and the talent level is not there where you can have a guy sit out for 2 years while he learns it. Not to mention it hasn't really given us much in terms of glimmers of hope.
4. I still think it was a horrible decision to blow Etlings redshirt year and throw him to the wolves. He was a guy that had a lot of promise, but now is almost damaged goods and we're sitting here with no clue who to have as QB.
I'm not going to trash people individually or anything and I know there's only really one way to go - and that's up. So I hope to see improvements this year that are tangible and not just "we played x team close for a couple quarters". I hope we are able to find a QB because we do not have the talent to be 1 dimensional. And we have multiple options - the question is will one of them work. But right now, it's really hard to be positive about Purdue football and there's a reason why the ticket sales are where they're at. It's not about game entertainment, it's about product.
boiler18 said "This coach is taking an approach to seek out diamond in the rough types" LOL...that's basically saying "all the other power 5 coaches saw this kid and they're not smart enough to recognize "football talent". In reality, they saw these players and recognize thier "football ceiling"...which is "ok", but won't help thier team win any championships. Most of "coach" hazell's recruits would be role players at a major program.
Totall agree on Etlings shirt and the complex offense Lbod
Im also sick of reading about how guys have the coaches/their own work ethic tuned out, but they are all better now. I wish they would stop playing them.
So if the staff cant capture the teams attention, key ones at that, I dont know why Im surprised to see other things that strike me as obviously not a good idea.
That said, I do see reasons for optimism. If the rbs can perform well, it should take a lot of pressure off the OC and QB. I do think the run d can be pretty good.
Im also sick of reading about how guys have the coaches/their own work ethic tuned out, but they are all better now. I wish they would stop playing them.
So if the staff cant capture the teams attention, key ones at that, I dont know why Im surprised to see other things that strike me as obviously not a good idea.
That said, I do see reasons for optimism. If the rbs can perform well, it should take a lot of pressure off the OC and QB. I do think the run d can be pretty good.
We finally have RBs who can run to and through contact. We also have a line that FINALLY has the requisite amount of years of experience that most teams put out there. We have played the same guys for 3 years and most of them aren't even seniors yet.
That's not something that screams as an issue to you? That the offense the past 2 years was playing vs. a stacked deck and at a clear experience differential?
Some of you act like a new coach is going to come in and right the ship...without realizing that it was basically sunk 3 years ago before Hazell got here and that the only reason we won ANYTHING was behind the efforts of a heroic QB in a conference that was at the bottom of the P5 rankings wise.
I can't think of the last time OSU, Iowa and IU have been as bad as they were THAT year. Robert Marve and those 3 teams being AWFUL got us to a bowl. We didn't have that luxury last year.
That's not something that screams as an issue to you? That the offense the past 2 years was playing vs. a stacked deck and at a clear experience differential?
Some of you act like a new coach is going to come in and right the ship...without realizing that it was basically sunk 3 years ago before Hazell got here and that the only reason we won ANYTHING was behind the efforts of a heroic QB in a conference that was at the bottom of the P5 rankings wise.
I can't think of the last time OSU, Iowa and IU have been as bad as they were THAT year. Robert Marve and those 3 teams being AWFUL got us to a bowl. We didn't have that luxury last year.
It is, but most of us have been more concerned with the coaches approach with what they have. Running Hunt and Mostert up the middle instead of read option/easy plays to the flat that get the ball in their hands in space. Personally, Im concerned with how the coaches always say one player is good and end up benching him. Henry is a good game manager, we'd be crazy to not hand the ball to Mostert 25 times a game, Yancey is a good wr, etc. Especially when people are predicting what they end up taking half a season to figure out.
That said, they have more of what they want now and hopefully its better from here on out. And the RB's did look good but Im far from convinced they are the Bettis Hazell seems to be demanding. They had some nice physical runs against Purdue's last place-ish defense in a mismatched spring game. Lets not get ahead of ourselves. On the other hand, if they are as good as they looked, I have a ton of optimism about the rest of the recruits.
Which season are you talking about?
2011 we beat a mediocre OSU team with CTB and Marve playing mediocre games. 2012 we should have beaten an undefeated OSU team with CTB playing all the snaps.
