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The Baseball Hall of Fame, Pete Rose, and steroids

gr8indoorsman

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Oct 4, 2004
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The Baseball Hall of Fame should consider admitting Pete Rose, steroid era players, Shoeless Joe, etc. The HOF is not required to specifically honor MLB rules. It is the Hall of "Fame", not the Hall of Morals; these are some of the most famous players in baseball history. Sammy Sosa and Mark McGwire resurrected the sport in 1998 and did so in an era where MLB didn't care to test for nor enforce standards on PED use. Pete Rose has more hits than anyone in baseball history.

These are not men of great integrity nor of great morals. Most make no apologies for their transgressions. That said, there are players in the Halls of Fame in every sport who are adulterers, criminals, liars, cheats, and various other transgressors. Perhaps admit those players in a special wing, with full disclosure on their plaques, and honor the integrity of the game by not granting them an induction ceremony, celebration, nor the right to give a speech. In short, remember their play - that which earned them their Fame - without celebrating their (lack of) character.

I'm not sure I'm convinced of this position myself, but it's occurred to me over the past day or so. What do you think?
 
The Rose issue is, to me, hypocritical because all sports in the modern era understand gambling is a big attraction. I don't follow it all that closely but I don't think it has ever been shown he bet against the Reds so I've never really understood the extreme punishment. He obviously has some issues and I've never seen him interviewed and thought he's a guy I would like to have a drink with, but appearing to be a dick to someone like me shouldn't exclude him either.

PED's I'm torn on. I loath the "everyone does/did it" excuse, but then if you're a competitor, and that means pushing envelopes, and you know many are doing it then, yeah, I would bet there is a strong motivation to do it as well just to keep up.

My humble opinion, yes to Rose, hold off on Sosa, McGwire and the like. Gambling has nothing to do with ability, PED's insults earlier generation and all who played by the rules.
 
The Baseball Hall of Fame should consider admitting Pete Rose, steroid era players, Shoeless Joe, etc. The HOF is not required to specifically honor MLB rules. It is the Hall of "Fame", not the Hall of Morals; these are some of the most famous players in baseball history. Sammy Sosa and Mark McGwire resurrected the sport in 1998 and did so in an era where MLB didn't care to test for nor enforce standards on PED use. Pete Rose has more hits than anyone in baseball history.

These are not men of great integrity nor of great morals. Most make no apologies for their transgressions. That said, there are players in the Halls of Fame in every sport who are adulterers, criminals, liars, cheats, and various other transgressors. Perhaps admit those players in a special wing, with full disclosure on their plaques, and honor the integrity of the game by not granting them an induction ceremony, celebration, nor the right to give a speech. In short, remember their play - that which earned them their Fame - without celebrating their (lack of) character.

I'm not sure I'm convinced of this position myself, but it's occurred to me over the past day or so. What do you think?

Paragraph 2 - no. Yes there are men in HOFs that broke the law or were immoral, but there is no evidence they did so regarding their sport. Catting around shouldn't impact your HOF status. I also don't want to see a scarlet letter placed upon them via a special wing.

Paragraph 1 - Maybe. Pete Rose. No. Can't bet on games you play in. End of story.

PED's are a different issue once I read Ball Four. The way it was presented in that book sort of changed my mind. World class players want to win. It is programmed and you will do almost anything to win. Hell, pipes have been taken to knees.
 
The Rose issue is, to me, hypocritical because all sports in the modern era understand gambling is a big attraction. I don't follow it all that closely but I don't think it has ever been shown he bet against the Reds so I've never really understood the extreme punishment. He obviously has some issues and I've never seen him interviewed and thought he's a guy I would like to have a drink with, but appearing to be a dick to someone like me shouldn't exclude him either.

PED's I'm torn on. I loath the "everyone does/did it" excuse, but then if you're a competitor, and that means pushing envelopes, and you know many are doing it then, yeah, I would bet there is a strong motivation to do it as well just to keep up.

My humble opinion, yes to Rose, hold off on Sosa, McGwire and the like. Gambling has nothing to do with ability, PED's insults earlier generation and all who played by the rules.


Gambling has nothing to do with ability. It has to do with outcome. Point shaving only involves skill to the extent that you don't get caught.

Lets call up that AAA reliever and throw him out there in a one run game. Ehh, everyone knows the season is over. Time to throw out that 20 year old AA for a start mixed with some utility players and pich hitters.
 
Another aspect of the Rose story that irks me is that Rose has fans who support him after 25+ Years of lying and tearing down others, yet he is unapologetic. The general view of Rose amongst most folks is favorable.

Lance Armstong lied and tore down others defending his lies for about ten years. He is a widespread pariah.

One of these men continues to lie and attempt to profit from his fame. The other has largely removed himself from the public eye and been shunned both officially and unofficially from his sports. One of these men raised hundreds of millions of dollars for cancer research. The other is still gambling and having issues with the IRS.

Doesn't make sense to me, as one of few people out there who still considers himself a fan of LA.
 
The Baseball Hall of Fame should consider admitting Pete Rose, steroid era players, Shoeless Joe, etc. The HOF is not required to specifically honor MLB rules. It is the Hall of "Fame", not the Hall of Morals; these are some of the most famous players in baseball history. Sammy Sosa and Mark McGwire resurrected the sport in 1998 and did so in an era where MLB didn't care to test for nor enforce standards on PED use. Pete Rose has more hits than anyone in baseball history.

These are not men of great integrity nor of great morals. Most make no apologies for their transgressions. That said, there are players in the Halls of Fame in every sport who are adulterers, criminals, liars, cheats, and various other transgressors. Perhaps admit those players in a special wing, with full disclosure on their plaques, and honor the integrity of the game by not granting them an induction ceremony, celebration, nor the right to give a speech. In short, remember their play - that which earned them their Fame - without celebrating their (lack of) character.

I'm not sure I'm convinced of this position myself, but it's occurred to me over the past day or so. What do you think?


I care so little about baseball so I'm not really qualified to weigh-in. To be honest, it's always struck me (besides being quite boring) as a little too sanctimonious about certain things. If Rose was betting on games and there is evidence he was throwing games, then he shouldn't come in. If there is no evidence the betting affected his play, then it seems more reasonable (although not sure how you prove that one way or the other).

PEDs? Not sure what you do there. Everyone doesn't do them, but some do and get caught and some do and don't get caught. But that's life. Some people commit crimes and don't get caught, doesn't mean those that do get caught catch a break.

Those two seem directly related to the sport and not simply morals issues. I concur that unrelated morals issues ordinarily shouldn't affect (although if OJ were being voted in today, I'd say it would be proper to say no).
 
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