Should RD focus on his handle and PG responsibilities this offseason?

[cprh9u]

If I were Painter, I would want RD (and maybe even DM to a lesser extent) really focus on his handle, lateral quickness and feeding the post this offseason. RD is a guy that would often bring the ball up the court in HS, and has a decent handle, but if he could improve his handle, passing and most importantly lateral quickness to stay in front of quicker PG's, he could make a huge impact for us as a situational or possibly even full time PG. If he can play this position at least some of the time, we could have a lineup in crunch time of RD, Mathias, Edwards, Swanigan and AJH. You have shooting, rebounding everywhere, the ability to pass and score from all over along with a pretty solid defensive group. This may not be a group that can start and play signifigant minutes together, but I think it is our best starting 5. The great thing is you can still bring in solid players off the bench like Haas, Stephens, Hill, PJ, Taylor and Smotherman (I'm assuming Cline and Weatherford RS as I don't see us going more than 11 deep).

I guess the flipside to this is starting Hill (sending Edwards to the bench) and then being able to bring in a group like Stephens, Edwards, Taylor (or Smotherman), Thompson and Haas. That is a 2nd group that should be better than almost any bench in the B1G.

What do you think? Can RD play point, at least in crunch time to get our best 5 on the court? I think that with RD, Edwards and Mathias, you have enough decent ball handlers and passers to handle any press. The question to me is more of can one of those guys stay with a quicker PG. RD seems best equipped to do it and I am hoping he can at times.

 

[Kesselschmiede]

RD has said recently I believe that he wants to do exactly that. He has the smarts to do improve where he needs to in the off season to make that change.

 

[sixpackpete]

While I am not sure if he can handle it, I would think that at 6'5", a defensive stopper, a burgeoning offensive threat, AND a starting point guard this could put RD on the radar for an NBA career that may not have been there otherwise.

IF he can be successful at it that is.

 

[Schnelk]

I doubt Edwards spends much time on the bench in any scenario. If that would be the case I would say the rotation needs to be adjusted/shortened.

 

[cprh9u]

While I am not sure if he can handle it, I would think that at 6'5", a defensive stopper, a burgeoning offensive threat, AND a starting point guard this could put RD on the radar for an NBA career that may not have been there otherwise.

IF he can be successful at it that is.

Yes, I agree. I left this out of the post but RD's best and probably only shot at an NBA career is if he can play the point as he doesn't have the athleticism or shooting to play the 2. I would love to see him make this jump.

 

[pboiler18]

Likely starting line up is Davis, Mathias, Edwards, Swanigan and Hammons. When we sub, we will likely go smaller and can slide Vince or J Taylor to the 4. Davis will be tough to keep off the floor, and will eat minutes of the SGs unless one of them steps up and proves they are a legitimate threats to hit shots consistently. RD is a great BigTen 3...but Vince is just a better offensive player and you can't keep him off the floor.

A common misconception is that in our offense, the PG is the one feeding the post. Last year, Mathias, Smotherman, Edwards and Stephens were the ones in set plays predominantly feeding the post when we would run the offense. Typically the PG would give up the ball, downscreen and give the guard a chance to shoot, drive or feed the post. We don't need a prototypical PG to run the offense and if RD can get to the basket as well as he did in late 14-15 season we will be just fine.

Also, people are ignoring that Swanigan is a pretty unselfish player....watching his tape. He's a plus passer and will definitely help us feed the post along with being a post feeding target himself. I think if he gets and stays in good playing shape he's a 12 and 7 guy for us at a minimum and makes it even easier for our post game to get good looks.

 

[Schnelk]

I'm sure RD is doing everything he can to be the best basketball player he can be. He's going to make his senior season his best yet and lead us to even greater heights this time around. Btfu!

 

[scottm.gjr]

I've always liked the idea of making Dakota a pg because he handles the ball well, makes good passes, and doesn't turn it over much. I know he isn't the quickest, but he is smart with the ball. Davis has that potential as well, but let's not assume that's our best move until we've seen what Hill can do. Also P.J. could improve more in the off season. We definitely should have options and will experiment with different lineups. The only thing I would disagree with is Cline redshirting. I think we will use him off the bench for added shooting and opening up the paint with his 3 pt threat. Weatherford on the other hand has a lot to prove and may be a good red shirt candidate.

 

[cprh9u]

I doubt Edwards spends much time on the bench in any scenario. If that would be the case I would say the rotation needs to be adjusted/shortened.

Agreed as well. He is at least our 3rd best returning player (behind AJH and RD) and needs a lot of PT. He is such a good all around player and adds a lot to this team. That's why ideally he starts or finishes or both and RD can guard the opposing PG. Our best true PG is maybe our 8th best player overall which makes it hard (behind AJH, RD, Edwards, Swanigan, Mathias, Stephens, Haas).

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

I realize some of that is a repeat message from a few of us, but let's not forget the defensive aspect.

Someone has to defend Trimble.....Ferrell......Walton......Koenig.....etc.

Right now, Purdue appears to be able to deal with the offense issues (regardless of J Hill's addition) much better than the question marks on defense at the PG position.

Regardless, I agree that Ray-Train probably will have a bigger role for some of those duties, especially when Purdue has the ball. I expect he will still be the Boilers' best defender on the wing but not necessarily at the PG.

 

[nat100]

Regardless, I agree that Ray-Train probably will have a bigger role for some of those duties, especially when Purdue has the ball. I expect he will still be the Boilers' best defender on the wing but not necessarily at the PG.

Agree with this.

 

[Kesselschmiede]

Likely starting line up is Davis, Mathias, Edwards, Swanigan and Hammons. When we sub, we will likely go smaller and can slide Vince or J Taylor to the 4. Davis will be tough to keep off the floor, and will eat minutes of the SGs unless one of them steps up and proves they are a legitimate threats to hit shots consistently. RD is a great BigTen 3...but Vince is just a better offensive player and you can't keep him off the floor.

A common misconception is that in our offense, the PG is the one feeding the post. Last year, Mathias, Smotherman, Edwards and Stephens were the ones in set plays predominantly feeding the post when we would run the offense. Typically the PG would give up the ball, downscreen and give the guard a chance to shoot, drive or feed the post. We don't need a prototypical PG to run the offense and if RD can get to the basket as well as he did in late 14-15 season we will be just fine.

Also, people are ignoring that Swanigan is a pretty unselfish player....watching his tape. He's a plus passer and will definitely help us feed the post along with being a post feeding target himself. I think if he gets and stays in good playing shape he's a 12 and 7 guy for us at a minimum and makes it even easier for our post game to get good looks.

You are exactly right on Biggie. I watched a few of his videos and he is very good at passing to a big center. We are going to be a nightmare to defend against, especially if anyone can consistently hit from outside.

 

[BuilderBob6]

Look, if Matt was confident Mathias, Ray, or Edwards could play the point he wouldn't have gone after a PG. I don't care how our offense runs, the idea that one of these guys can step in and play the point is way overblown. Not saying it might not happen, not saying any of these guys can improve their PG skills over the summer. But PG is a lot about mentality of the position, not something that can be learned overnight.

 

[West James]

If I were Painter, I would want RD (and maybe even DM to a lesser extent) really focus on his handle, lateral quickness and feeding the post this offseason. RD is a guy that would often bring the ball up the court in HS, and has a decent handle, but if he could improve his handle, passing and most importantly lateral quickness to stay in front of quicker PG's, he could make a huge impact for us as a situational or possibly even full time PG. If he can play this position at least some of the time, we could have a lineup in crunch time of RD, Mathias, Edwards, Swanigan and AJH. You have shooting, rebounding everywhere, the ability to pass and score from all over along with a pretty solid defensive group. This may not be a group that can start and play signifigant minutes together, but I think it is our best starting 5. The great thing is you can still bring in solid players off the bench like Haas, Stephens, Hill, PJ, Taylor and Smotherman (I'm assuming Cline and Weatherford RS as I don't see us going more than 11 deep).

I guess the flipside to this is starting Hill (sending Edwards to the bench) and then being able to bring in a group like Stephens, Edwards, Taylor (or Smotherman), Thompson and Haas. That is a 2nd group that should be better than almost any bench in the B1G.

What do you think? Can RD play point, at least in crunch time to get our best 5 on the court? I think that with RD, Edwards and Mathias, you have enough decent ball handlers and passers to handle any press. The question to me is more of can one of those guys stay with a quicker PG. RD seems best equipped to do it and I am hoping he can at times.

Fortunately, that's a decision Coach Painter must make. He'll probably have to get all the guards, players who want & have/would have a legitimate chance, to early on, competitively vie for the SG & PG positions. He'll have to determine, after seeing how good their ball handling skills are, [with both hands] along with their court vision, court sense/ability to successfully distribute the ball, & in tough, preasure filled, circumstances/situations. He'll have to determine who can most effectively break, & help break intensive full court double teams/peasure, and remain calm, turn over free, while keeping the clocks in mind the whole time [glad I don't want such a job!]. I would have Thompson go last, & Thompson & Hill would be the 2 opposition players the players trying out for PG, had to deal with on defense, while getting the ball past the half court line, [& in time] & while successfully setting up our powerfull inside, outside game we'll employ this season. If Davis wanted the PG job, & Coach Painter thought his preasant PG skills were close enough/up to par with the best he has at PG, let RD be the starting PG. This below, looks good to me, provided the players can successfully handle such responsibilities?



PG Davis/Hill
SG Mathias/Stephens
SF Edwards/Smotherman
PF Swanigan/Taylor
C Hammons/Haas


The whole key to the success of this year's team, depends most on the PG position, the starting PG in particular. If Davis can do it, that would be our best senario for the most success. I'm quite sure, with time, the guard positions will smooth themselves out, & victories will be easier & easier to achieve. Chemistry takes time, & the guards skills will surely improve steadily under the guidance of Coach Painter.



"IN PAINTER WE TRUST"

 

[ustankass]

You are exactly right on Biggie. I watched a few of his videos and he is very good at passing to a big center. We are going to be a nightmare to defend against, especially if anyone can consistently hit from outside.

I read a story that said Swanigan was second all time at his school in assists! That is amazing for a big man. If teams double team him in the post, prepare for a bunch of open shots. He must have a great feel for the game. We are probably going to see a ton of dunks from hammons and haas and dump offs from swanigan and a ton of wide open threes on kick outs from the post. He is just an all around great player, does everything well. This has to be his biggest attribute.

 

[since1980]

I believe Ray would benefit greatly from having the ball in his hands more, getting back more to his High School type of game. As a guard, the more you have the ball in your hands, the more into the flow of the game you are. I think he gets lost at times being an off-guard, because really his best attribute is being a driver and slasher and finisher. If he practices all season as a lead guard, his handles will be fine...its really more about the confidence factor he would develop of having the ball in his hands more. His handles are just as good as what Octeus' were in my opinion. He obviously isn't a "true PG" who has above average passing skills and so forth, but I think Purdue's need to have shooters on the floor with our big guys makes Ray handling a lot of the PG duties a necessary thing.

Mathias is also capable as well of bringing it up and starting the offense.

Defensively Purdue switches almost everything up top these days, so I don't see there being an issue with Ray or Mathias/Stephens being the 2 guards. Guarding Yogi or Tremble will always be a team thing with Purdue.

I'm sure Painter will play a lot of different lineups depending on how the game is flowing, foul trouble and such. But when it comes to crunch time, that's when it will basically come down to who Painter trusts most...if we need 3's or 2's...if we need to hold onto a lead or come back from a deficit and so forth.

I do think Cline and Weatherford will redshirt unless either of them prove they are just better than other guys. No reason to waste a year as a 3rd stringer.

But I agree that the lineups we end up seeing most this year is:

Ray(25-30 minutes) (Hill/PJ combine for 10-15minutes)
Mathias or Stephens (combine for 40 minutes depending on who is hot, healthy and not in foul trouble)
Edwards (25-30 minutes) (Smotherman 15ish minutes)
Swanigan (20-25 minutes) (Taylor/Smotherman splitting 15-20 minutes)
Hammons and Haas (combine for 40 minutes)

 

[GodFamilyCountryPurdue]

Look, if Matt was confident Mathias, Ray, or Edwards could play the point he wouldn't have gone after a PG.

Up until a few days ago, Edwards was our 4 and Davis was our 3. A lot of things changed after Biggie committed.

 

[West James]

Up until a few days ago, Edwards was our 4 and Davis was our 3. A lot of things changed after Biggie committed.

Quite true, & imagine the post up possibilities of Davis, as our PG, against opposition point guards/guards. Davis is already a very strong one on one player, [with few noticible weaknesses] & seeing him up against smaller, weaker opposition guards, well that would be a real bonus for this team. That alone, would open up so very many other benificial possibilities for this team, like Christmas in July. I remember when I first saw Magic Johnson play point guard. I wouldn't have believed it, if I hadn't first saw it with my own eyes. That was a sight to see!

 

[woggy718]

PG Davis/Hill
SG Mathias/Stephens
SF Edwards/Smotherman
PF Swanigan/Taylor
C Hammons/Haas

This is good but I don't see Painter running 10 deep again because he admitted it cost us a couple games last year. I honestly see more of Edwards shifting to the 4 when Biggie needs a breather foul trouble Becomes an issue. Sliding RD to the three and putting 2 of these 3, DM, KS, or even RC in there.

I honestly think it's going to be very tough for Basil or Taylor to get any significant minutes next year.

 

[CRBoiler]

Considering our problems last year with the full court press, every guard on our team needs to work on ball handling and speed while ball handling (to the extent that can be worked on).

As far as who should try out for PG, I agree both RD and DM should be prepared because them being able to play there gives the team a better chance to put our best 5 on the floor.

 

[koopmeister]

This is good but I don't see Painter running 10 deep again because he admitted it cost us a couple games last year. I honestly see more of Edwards shifting to the 4 when Biggie needs a breather foul trouble Becomes an issue. Sliding RD to the three and putting 2 of these 3, DM, KS, or even RC in there.

I honestly think it's going to be very tough for Basil or Taylor to get any significant minutes next year.

I tend to agree with this, but part of the reason it cost us a few games is because the production level dropped when a player like JO was losing minutes to BS for example. He might run a little deeper line-up depending on whether the production level stays high, how kids practice, or how certain players develop over the course of a season. I am eager to see how the rotation looks after things gel and we get deeper into the season.

 

[West James]

I tend to agree with this, but part of the reason it cost us a few games is because the production level dropped when a player like JO was losing minutes by BS for example. He might run a little deeper line-up depending on whether the production level stays high, how kids practice, or how certain players develop over the course of a season. I am eager to see how the rotation looks after things gel and we get deeper into the season.

Hell, I'd pay to see their practices! I'd also like to see how RD or DM does at PG, with Thompson & Hill draped all over them defensively, full court, clocks ticking away [& the new 30 sec. shot clock this season], & trying to get their offense into gear/in a set play. That's worth the price of admission alone! If RD could really handle the point, it opens up all kinds of new & exciting possibilities for this talented team. Decisions, decisions ...?

 

[BuilderBob6]

Up until a few days ago, Edwards was our 4 and Davis was our 3. A lot of things changed after Biggie committed.

There was lots of talk about those three playing the PG before Biggie. We were still pretty full at the 2/3.

 

[BuilderBob6]

I believe Ray would benefit greatly from having the ball in his hands more, getting back more to his High School type of game. As a guard, the more you have the ball in your hands, the more into the flow of the game you are. I think he gets lost at times being an off-guard, because really his best attribute is being a driver and slasher and finisher. If he practices all season as a lead guard, his handles will be fine...its really more about the confidence factor he would develop of having the ball in his hands more. His handles are just as good as what Octeus' were in my opinion. He obviously isn't a "true PG" who has above average passing skills and so forth, but I think Purdue's need to have shooters on the floor with our big guys makes Ray handling a lot of the PG duties a necessary thing.

Mathias is also capable as well of bringing it up and starting the offense.

Defensively Purdue switches almost everything up top these days, so I don't see there being an issue with Ray or Mathias/Stephens being the 2 guards. Guarding Yogi or Tremble will always be a team thing with Purdue.

I'm sure Painter will play a lot of different lineups depending on how the game is flowing, foul trouble and such. But when it comes to crunch time, that's when it will basically come down to who Painter trusts most...if we need 3's or 2's...if we need to hold onto a lead or come back from a deficit and so forth.

I do think Cline and Weatherford will redshirt unless either of them prove they are just better than other guys. No reason to waste a year as a 3rd stringer.

But I agree that the lineups we end up seeing most this year is:

Ray(25-30 minutes) (Hill/PJ combine for 10-15minutes)
Mathias or Stephens (combine for 40 minutes depending on who is hot, healthy and not in foul trouble)
Edwards (25-30 minutes) (Smotherman 15ish minutes)
Swanigan (20-25 minutes) (Taylor/Smotherman splitting 15-20 minutes)
Hammons and Haas (combine for 40 minutes)

Well said. Ray did look lost at times, standing on the perimeter looking to pass. If it was denied, he would sometimes revert to his bread and butter and drive, usually to his right. Other times he would shoot the three if he had a shot. I agree that some practice might help, especially on his handles as I think they are suspect. Maybe more time with the ball in his hands would help his confidence and comfort level with the position. Although anyone can start our offense, one thing I like about PJ is how he sets the tone in the halfcourt. He gets across the line, makes a crisp pass and makes a hard cut. The PG in our offense needs to lead by example and get the guys moving...........something we obviously struggle with at times.

 

[lbodel]

If I were Painter, I would want RD (and maybe even DM to a lesser extent) really focus on his handle, lateral quickness and feeding the post this offseason. RD is a guy that would often bring the ball up the court in HS, and has a decent handle, but if he could improve his handle, passing and most importantly lateral quickness to stay in front of quicker PG's, he could make a huge impact for us as a situational or possibly even full time PG. If he can play this position at least some of the time, we could have a lineup in crunch time of RD, Mathias, Edwards, Swanigan and AJH. You have shooting, rebounding everywhere, the ability to pass and score from all over along with a pretty solid defensive group. This may not be a group that can start and play signifigant minutes together, but I think it is our best starting 5. The great thing is you can still bring in solid players off the bench like Haas, Stephens, Hill, PJ, Taylor and Smotherman (I'm assuming Cline and Weatherford RS as I don't see us going more than 11 deep).

I guess the flipside to this is starting Hill (sending Edwards to the bench) and then being able to bring in a group like Stephens, Edwards, Taylor (or Smotherman), Thompson and Haas. That is a 2nd group that should be better than almost any bench in the B1G.

What do you think? Can RD play point, at least in crunch time to get our best 5 on the court? I think that with RD, Edwards and Mathias, you have enough decent ball handlers and passers to handle any press. The question to me is more of can one of those guys stay with a quicker PG. RD seems best equipped to do it and I am hoping he can at times.

Whether he has responsibility shift to PG or not, he needs to work on his handle. Turnovers were a big issue for him last year.

 

[GodFamilyCountryPurdue]

There was lots of talk about those three playing the PG before Biggie. We were still pretty full at the 2/3.

People talked about RD, Mathias, and Edwards playing the point IF Biggie came. People talked about it wasn't all that important to bring in a stud PG because these 3 could help bring the ball up.

 

[dal9]

Stephens better beat out Mathias....its about time he stepped it up

 

[purdue4sure]

Up until a few days ago, Edwards was our 4 and Davis was our 3. A lot of things changed after Biggie committed.

If Taylor emerges, I figured Edwards would get time at the 3. Now he's almost guaranteed to play there.

Todd Mitchell wanted to play the 3 after his freshman year, but the personnel wasn't there until he was a senior. I'm looking forward to seeing Edwards transitioning as a sophomore.

 

[88btfu92]

Look, if Matt was confident Mathias, Ray, or Edwards could play the point he wouldn't have gone after a PG. I don't care how our offense runs, the idea that one of these guys can step in and play the point is way overblown. Not saying it might not happen, not saying any of these guys can improve their PG skills over the summer. But PG is a lot about mentality of the position, not something that can be learned overnight.

I don't disagree and Brian has called the PG signing one that had to be made but with an open schollie taking a 5th year PG just for depth seems like a no brainier. Had we been thin up front you may have seen another Chris Reid signing. PG is a difficult and sometimes undervalued position but if I were Ray I would at least try to help there. I seem to be in the minority here that thinks his minutes could be cut due to the log jam of talent at the 2/3 position. Getting 5-10 minutes at point would guarantee big minutes overall IMO.

 

[West James]

Whether he has responsibility shift to PG or not, he needs to work on his handle. Turnovers were a big issue for him last year.

RD wasn't the only Boiler with turnover problems, plenty of blame to go around for several othes, & the total for the team as a whole, especially the early part of the season. That total team turnovers, & finding the right PG, should be a top priority early on. Coach Painter will make the proper adjustments, turnovers, point guards, & all.