Playing Time Per Player

[*4purdue*]

I would redshirt Smotherman & Weatherford. I hate to see them sit, & would it give more minutes to Mathias & Taylor if they do. I see the pt as follows:

Hammons: 25 min.
Swanigan: 25 min.
Edwards: 20 min.
Stephens: 15 min.
Hill: 20 min.
Haas: 15 min.
Davis: 25 min.
Mathias: 15 min.
Cline: 10 min.
Thompson 10 min.
Taylor: 5 min.
Smotherman: 10 min.
Weatherford: 5 min.

 

[Boiler Buck]

Would not surprise me either to see one of your above players RS

 

[cprh9u]

Lot's of balance. I want to see AJH, Edwards, Davis and Swanigan as much as possible (high 20's or around 30) and Mathias and Stephens should both be in the 20+ range as well.

I see Cline and Weatherford as RS options unless one of them blows Painter away prior to making that decision. If so, they would play at someone else's expense. I think Taylor and Smotherman will essentially be on mop-up duty depending on how they play and develop in my opinion. Nothing against either one of those guys, but we have such a deep squad that I see a few talented guys not getting a lot of PT.

 

[boiler62]

I would redshirt Smotherman & Weatherford. I hate to see them sit, & would it give more minutes to Mathias & Taylor if they do. I see the pt as follows:

Hammons: 25 min.
Swanigan: 25 min.
Edwards: 20 min.
Stephens: 15 min.
Hill: 20 min.
Haas: 15 min.
Davis: 25 min.
Mathias: 15 min.
Cline: 10 min.
Thompson 10 min.
Taylor: 5 min.
Smotherman: 10 min.
Weatherford: 5 min.

Have you seen all these plyers in action?

 

[D1975W]

I would redshirt Smotherman & Weatherford. I hate to see them sit, & would it give more minutes to Mathias & Taylor if they do. I see the pt as follows:

Hammons: 25 min.
Swanigan: 25 min.
Edwards: 20 min.
Stephens: 15 min.
Hill: 20 min.
Haas: 15 min.
Davis: 25 min.
Mathias: 15 min.
Cline: 10 min.
Thompson 10 min.
Taylor: 5 min.
Smotherman: 10 min.
Weatherford: 5 min.

 

[D1975W]

I think a lot of folks here miss Smotherman's potential. He is the most athletic player I've seen in a Purdue uniform in a long time. I think his shot looks really good, don't know why he doesn't shoot it better in games. If he can improve his outside shot he can be a great part of an outstanding team and really help when other teams play small. He reminds me of Victor Oladipo in his first couple of years at IU.

 

[scipiospinks]

I like Smotherman because he's a glue guy. Plenty of guys (Hammons, Swanigan, Stephens, Davis) are going to want (rightfully so) to get their shots. It's always nice to have a guy who doesn't need to shoot but gets steals, transition points and put backs.

Having said that, we need to have a few guys around the 30 minute mark. I'm not a fan of constant subbing and shuffling lineups just because everyone is "solid." I think Painter has struggled with this recently but did a better job last season during the second half. Hammons is our best player and should play as many minutes as he can during conference play. Davis also falls into that category. Hopefully Hill plays a lot as that we will mean he's taken over the position. I'm not confident in the other point guards. How much time Swanigan and Edwards get will be interesting to see play out.

 

[BoilerFan#35]

Basil will play 10-15 mins at 3 and 4 position.

 

[lbodel]

I would redshirt Smotherman & Weatherford. I hate to see them sit, & would it give more minutes to Mathias & Taylor if they do. I see the pt as follows:

Hammons: 25 min.
Swanigan: 25 min.
Edwards: 20 min.
Stephens: 15 min.
Hill: 20 min.
Haas: 15 min.
Davis: 25 min.
Mathias: 15 min.
Cline: 10 min.
Thompson 10 min.
Taylor: 5 min.
Smotherman: 10 min.
Weatherford: 5 min.

I don't think Weatherford redshirts for 2 reasons.

1. It's our "leanest" position. Granted, this can change once practice starts and coaches can see how well Hill plays, particularly defensively. Thompson is a good player, but if Painter plans to play a PG for most of the game - there's going to be match-up issues with Thompson and other PGs will need to play. Hill/Weatherford both bring size and depending on defense, if Weatherford brings an added dimension that the others don't, he could see some "specialized" playing opportunities - in a loose sense like how Bryson was used last year.

2. This is by no means a knock on Weatherford, but he's the least talented of the scholarship guys. I don't know if you redshirt that guy - meaning you are locked for a scholarship for 5 years. But again, if Painter views him as Kramer where the defense matters most - then maybe he doesn't mind.

Overall, I think you have to redshirt at least one guy and probably 2. And with regards to some of the responses below, I don't think anyone thinks that people they're suggesting redshirt don't offer an impact. It's just that we're not gonna go 10 deep.

This is going to be challening for Painter to handle. It's a great problem to have, but redshirting in basketball doesn't offer much flexibility.

 

[purduepete87]

Nice problem to have, but...We're not going to have a 13-man rotation. Especially after what Matt said this past year about losing some games early because he was trying to develop the bench. I'm guessing at least one RS, and 2 others guys that just play in non conference games and blowouts.

 

[purduepete87]

I should specify who I'm talking about...RS Weatherford or Cline. Maybe it ends up being Cline because we are deeper at his position with DM and KS. Taylor and PJ not redshirted, but don't play much.

 

[anythingbutIU]

So how many here have actually see the new guys play?

 

[boiler_pride]

I agree with the commenter who said we won't have a 13-player rotation which almost ended up as a disaster last year. We only started winning games after we tightened the rotation.

My (not so ) bold prediction: Cline is going to redshirt. I know some of you are excited about him but he's behind Mathias and Stephens and is a specialist like the other two.

These players will get 30+ minutes: Hammons, Davis. Swanigan potentially will too, based on how quickly he adapts to the college game. Haas will probably average about 10 min. Unfortunate for him since he has talent but he's behind Hammons and can't play the 4. Now, if Hammons starts out slow (and I would actually bet he will because it happened pretty much every year) expect Haas to get 15-20 minutes again in the OOC part of the schedule.

PG is anyone's guess since we don't have a proven commodity and frankly not much talent at the position. I'd imagine the best defender out of the bunch (prob Hill) will play about 25 min/game and the best scorer will play 15 min/game. I wouldn't be surprised if Weatherford takes the backup spot from PJ.

Between Stephens and Mathias, there will be competition and one of them needs to step it up from what they did last year. They both had their moments but not enough of them. If neither one does, expect Painter to slide Davis to 2, and play Edwards at 3. Between Hammons, Edwards, and Swanigan, we should have three options on offense and won't be needing Stephens'/Mathias' specialist features unless they bring more to the table.

I expect Smotherman to fill his "Marcus Green" role with diminishing minutes. Taylor is the odd man out. I think it's funny how there were so many "We don't need Swanigan, we have Taylor!" posts just a few weeks ago and now people are giving him 5 minutes a game.

 

[lbodel]

I agree with the commenter who said we won't have a 13-player rotation which almost ended up as a disaster last year. We only started winning games after we tightened the rotation.

My (not so ) bold prediction: Cline is going to redshirt. I know some of you are excited about him but he's behind Mathias and Stephens and is a specialist like the other two.

These players will get 30+ minutes: Hammons, Davis. Swanigan potentially will too, based on how quickly he adapts to the college game. Haas will probably average about 10 min. Unfortunate for him since he has talent but he's behind Hammons and can't play the 4. Now, if Hammons starts out slow (and I would actually bet he will because it happened pretty much every year) expect Haas to get 15-20 minutes again in the OOC part of the schedule.

PG is anyone's guess since we don't have a proven commodity and frankly not much talent at the position. I'd imagine the best defender out of the bunch (prob Hill) will play about 25 min/game and the best scorer will play 15 min/game. I wouldn't be surprised if Weatherford takes the backup spot from PJ.

Between Stephens and Mathias, there will be competition and one of them needs to step it up from what they did last year. They both had their moments but not enough of them. If neither one does, expect Painter to slide Davis to 2, and play Edwards at 3. Between Hammons, Edwards, and Swanigan, we should have three options on offense and won't be needing Stephens'/Mathias' specialist features unless they bring more to the table.

I expect Smotherman to fill his "Marcus Green" role with diminishing minutes. Taylor is the odd man out. I think it's funny how there were so many "We don't need Swanigan, we have Taylor!" posts just a few weeks ago and now people are giving him 5 minutes a game.

I agree about Cline and it's because of the situation we're in. Considering that neither Mathias/Stephens are seniors, which means they're both returning after next season, it makes sense to redshirt Cline. He can be a special player - but he's needs to add strength. You see these 3 point guys come in and play immediately but aren't there physically, which can limit their impact. Having a redshirt year where he can develop that strength and then have four years to play - he could really be a special player for us - and would be able to play minutes as a redshirt freshman and could start as a sophomore.

One thing I will say is that while I have my opinions on these things, this will obviously be decided on the court and in practice, which we don't see. It's like with Weatherford - if Hill comes in and looks solid - maybe he's the guy that redshirts. If Hill isn't looking like an Octeus type (which he may very well not be nor is necessarily expected to be), then Weatherford probably will not redshirt.

 

[Boiler Buck]

I like the idea of Smotherman redshirting only because of how experienced he will be coming off the RS. He does bring something to the floor others do not, but seeing that as an experienced RS guy kinda gets me revved up, imagining how good he would be! However, in today's basketball climate there is NO guarantee that great 5th year you shoot for with the RS....will be as a Boiler....so there is a risk there.

 

[boilerbusdriver]

I would RS Cline, a year of strength and quickness training, Mathias comes back more toned up, having lost 10 pounds for lateral quickness, he was hurting us defensively

 

[lbodel]

I like the idea of Smotherman redshirting only because of how experienced he will be coming off the RS. He does bring something to the floor others do not, but seeing that as an experienced RS guy kinda gets me revved up, imagining how good he would be! However, in today's basketball climate there is NO guarantee that great 5th year you shoot for with the RS....will be as a Boiler....so there is a risk there.

At the Big Ten Conference level, most 5th year transfers are simply playing time related. If he's getting decent minutes (which I'd imagine a guy like him would be by then), he's probably not gonna go anywhere.

Considering Basil seems to like it a lot at Purdue, I don't think he'd go anywhere unless he was buried in a depth chart.

 

[hunkgolden]

I would redshirt Smotherman & Weatherford. I hate to see them sit, & would it give more minutes to Mathias & Taylor if they do. I see the pt as follows:

Hammons: 25 min.
Swanigan: 25 min.
Edwards: 20 min.
Stephens: 15 min.
Hill: 20 min.
Haas: 15 min.
Davis: 25 min.
Mathias: 15 min.
Cline: 10 min.
Thompson 10 min.
Taylor: 5 min.
Smotherman: 10 min.
Weatherford: 5 min.

What a complete and utter waste of time. I'm guessing that you haven't even seen 3 or 4 of these players play in person. And how one plays against high schoolers or in AAU is no barometer for playing against D1 competition in the B1G - see Bryson Scott.

All of these threads of who plays/who sits points are completely meaningless right now. As I've said for years - wait until we see how these guys do in the 2 "exhibition" games and the first couple of non-conference games. It will then be obvious who should get minutes and who shouldn't.

 

[vilehoopster]

I think a lot of folks here miss Smotherman's potential. He is the most athletic player I've seen in a Purdue uniform in a long time. I think his shot looks really good, don't know why he doesn't shoot it better in games. If he can improve his outside shot he can be a great part of an outstanding team and really help when other teams play small. He reminds me of Victor Oladipo in his first couple of years at IU.

You really think Smotherman's shot "looks really good"? I think his shooting form is terrible, just terrible. I was shocked to hear his father was a coach with such terrible form; his elbow sticks straight out and he has no lift on his shot with his elbow. And I got news for you: his free throw and 3-pt shooting percentages confirm his terrible form. Seriously, If I was Painter, I would red-light him from three range, and immediately take Smotherman out every time he takes a 3-pter.

I also always thought both the Johnson brothers had terrible shooting form. Terone had way too much motion in his shot, and when we were recruiting Ronnie, I remember when Ronnie was in high school and people were on here raving about how he could do it all (forget what came later) including what a great outside 3-pt shooter he was in high school and would be at Purdue. Then in his first exhibition game, I saw him take an outside shot, and I about croaked because his shot looked so terrible to me. I couldn't understand how Painter could recruit guards with such obviously flawed shooting forms. I guess Painter recruited Terone to be a slasher and not an outside shooter. With Ronnie, I don't get it.

On the other hand, I can think of tons of guys with great form who can't shoot worth a lick. And I always thought that Pacer Reggie Miller had terrible form, but he turned out to be a pretty good 3-pt and free throw shooter.

 

[vilehoopster]

What a complete and utter waste of time. I'm guessing that you haven't even seen 3 or 4 of these players play in person. And how one plays against high schoolers or in AAU is no barometer for playing against D1 competition in the B1G - see Bryson Scott.

All of these threads of who plays/who sits points are completely meaningless right now. As I've said for years - wait until we see how these guys do in the 2 "exhibition" games and the first couple of non-conference games. It will then be obvious who should get minutes and who shouldn't.

"how one plays against high schoolers or in AAU is no barometer for playing against D1 competition in the B1G"

Really? No barometer... none... none at all? I think your statement here is a little false. From your statement, we can assume that Weatherford is every bit as likely to get playing time during the Big Ten season as Swanington. I think your premise is a little flawed.

I'm pretty confident that Swanington gets more playing time Weatherford. Do you disagree with that statement? Is it 50-50 who plays more?

Plus, threads like this a fun during the off-season. People are just excited and speculating about the future. That's why they have preseason polls; they're fun.

 

[88btfu92]

I would redshirt Smotherman & Weatherford. I hate to see them sit, & would it give more minutes to Mathias & Taylor if they do. I see the pt as follows:

Hammons: 25 min.
Swanigan: 25 min.
Edwards: 20 min.
Stephens: 15 min.
Hill: 20 min.
Haas: 15 min.
Davis: 25 min.
Mathias: 15 min.
Cline: 10 min.
Thompson 10 min.
Taylor: 5 min.
Smotherman: 10 min.
Weatherford: 5 min.

Here's my take. Painter said he regretted not redshirting Ryne and he does not make the mistake with Cline. Weatherford needs to be on the team this year as a pure insurance policy for PG back up and defensive specialist. Taylor also will be used as insurance in the event of foul trouble at the 5. Smotherman should redshirt so he doesn't waste his junior year getting minimal minutes. I think he would be in line for RD's minutes next year as he needs to work on D and the outside shot so he can play the 2/3 and not the 4. Purdue got better last year after he rotation was shortened and I think it will happen again as it gets trimmed to no more than 9 players. My guess:

AJH- 25 mins @ 5
Haas- 15 mins @ 5
Swanigan- 20 mins @ 4
Edwards- 20 mins @ 4
Edwards- 5- mins @ 3
Davis- 20 mins @ 3
Stephens- 5 mins @ 3
Stephens- 20 mins @ 2
Mathias- 20 mins @ 2
Davis- 5 mins @ 1
Mathias 5 mins @ 1
Hill 20 mins @ 1
Pj- 10 mins @ 1

 

[lbodel]

Here's my take. Painter said he regretted not redshirting Ryne and he does not make the mistake with Cline. Weatherford needs to be on the team this year as a pure insurance policy for PG back up and defensive specialist. Taylor also will be used as insurance in the event of foul trouble at the 5. Smotherman should redshirt so he doesn't waste his junior year getting minimal minutes. I think he would be in line for RD's minutes next year as he needs to work on D and the outside shot so he can play the 2/3 and not the 4. Purdue got better last year after he rotation was shortened and I think it will happen again as it gets trimmed to no more than 9 players. My guess:

AJH- 25 mins @ 5
Haas- 15 mins @ 5
Swanigan- 20 mins @ 4
Edwards- 20 mins @ 4
Edwards- 5- mins @ 3
Davis- 20 mins @ 3
Stephens- 5 mins @ 3
Stephens- 20 mins @ 2
Mathias- 20 mins @ 2
Davis- 5 mins @ 1
Mathias 5 mins @ 1
Hill 20 mins @ 1
Pj- 10 mins @ 1

I think this is about right, with one exception.

Last year, Hammons averaged 25 minutes a game. And during Big Ten play, Hammons saw an increase in minutes. He played 28 vs. IU both games, 31 vs. Ohio State, 32 vs. Illinois....all games where foul trouble wasn't an issue. Assuming there's a continuation of improvement from last season going into next season, I think ideally you'd see Hammons playing around 30 minutes - particularly come conference season.

Also, I think the 1 will play itself out - I think in general you're right in that at times, none of our "designated" PGs will be in the game. Obviously Hill is a bit of an uncertainty. And I think you'll see Weatherford play in certain games, but maybe not appear in all.

 

[GodFamilyCountryPurdue]

Here's my take. Painter said he regretted not redshirting Ryne and he does not make the mistake with Cline. Weatherford needs to be on the team this year as a pure insurance policy for PG back up and defensive specialist. Taylor also will be used as insurance in the event of foul trouble at the 5. Smotherman should redshirt so he doesn't waste his junior year getting minimal minutes. I think he would be in line for RD's minutes next year as he needs to work on D and the outside shot so he can play the 2/3 and not the 4. Purdue got better last year after he rotation was shortened and I think it will happen again as it gets trimmed to no more than 9 players. My guess:

AJH- 25 mins @ 5
Haas- 15 mins @ 5
Swanigan- 20 mins @ 4
Edwards- 20 mins @ 4
Edwards- 5- mins @ 3
Davis- 20 mins @ 3
Stephens- 5 mins @ 3
Stephens- 20 mins @ 2
Mathias- 20 mins @ 2
Davis- 5 mins @ 1
Mathias 5 mins @ 1
Hill 20 mins @ 1
Pj- 10 mins @ 1

Edwards will be starting at the 3 and Davis will be starting at the 2 (or 1).

 

[88btfu92]

Edwards will be starting at the 3 and Davis will be starting at the 2 (or 1).

RD starting at the 1 would be this team's wet dream. It solves the biggest issue and that's keeping Davis on the floor at our weakest position and not taking time away from our sharp shooters. Starting Davis (assuming no shooting improvement) at the 'shooting guard' position hamstrings us in the motion O. However his D and senior leadership will keep him in the mix. On a side note, I do expect RD's minutes to be down from this past season as a healthy Mathias and Stephens will eat into it. And yes I agree Edwards will take some minutes at the 3 and will excel there.

 

[GodFamilyCountryPurdue]

RD starting at the 1 would be this team's wet dream. It solves the biggest issue and that's keeping Davis on the floor at our weakest position and not taking time away from our sharp shooters. Starting Davis (assuming no shooting improvement) at the 'shooting guard' position hamstrings us in the motion O. However his D and senior leadership will keep him in the mix. On a side note, I do expect RD's minutes to be down from this past season as a healthy Mathias and Stephens will eat into it. And yes I agree Edwards will take some minutes at the 3 and will excel there.

Davis shot the highest % on 3s during B1G play last year.

 

[88btfu92]

I think this is about right, with one exception.

Last year, Hammons averaged 25 minutes a game. And during Big Ten play, Hammons saw an increase in minutes. He played 28 vs. IU both games, 31 vs. Ohio State, 32 vs. Illinois....all games where foul trouble wasn't an issue. Assuming there's a continuation of improvement from last season going into next season, I think ideally you'd see Hammons playing around 30 minutes - particularly come conference season.

Also, I think the 1 will play itself out - I think in general you're right in that at times, none of our "designated" PGs will be in the game. Obviously Hill is a bit of an uncertainty. And I think you'll see Weatherford play in certain games, but maybe not appear in all.

Keeping our 5's fresh was a huge advantage this year. I think Hammons gets a few extra minutes during crunch but what will be exciting to see is just how much Isaac improves in year 2. If he is truly dominant it will be hard to not give him his minutes.

 

[88btfu92]

Davis shot the highest % on 3s during B1G play last year.

So I'd assume you'd take him in a game of horse over Mathias, Stephens, and Edwards? You do realize that defenses were sagging off RD challenging him to hit the 3? I didn't see that luxury extended to the others. I truly hope RD makes an even bigger leap in the shooting category. The more shooters the better.

 

[GodFamilyCountryPurdue]

So I'd assume you'd take him in a game of horse over Mathias, Stephens, and Edwards? You do realize that defenses were sagging off RD challenging him to hit the 3? I didn't see that luxury extended to the others. I truly hope RD makes an even bigger leap in the shooting category. The more shooters the better.

Yes, they sagged off of him when Painter gave him the red light. Not so much at the end of the year when he was allowed to shoot again. After watching him in shoot around many times, I'd have no problem taking him in a game of horse. They are all good shooters.