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First off, I agree with you that on its merits, this isn't a wholly bad bill. As you said, nearly half the states have adopted similar measures. However, it seems to be a solution for a problem that doesn't currently exist in Indiana (I realize that's not the case everywhere, and may not be the case here in the future).Originally posted by Jedifick:
The outcry on social media about this is astounding. I keep seeing "indiana is so far behind the times." As usual, 99% of the public are low information voters that dont realize this is a trend that 19 other states have picked up on, including left hotbeds illinois, Connecticut, and Rhode Island, to protect small business and give them back the right of service. It's a foundation to the free market principle, as openly discriminating is quite bad for business. The bill does look bad at face value, which is as far as most people are able to take it.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
...only 238 years in the making! FREEDOM!!!Originally posted by yosdk:
I can't wait for my complete religious freedom to do whatever I want.
I live in Ohio and am too lazy to google it, what is the text of the bill? Unduly burden language?Originally posted by Jedifick:
Yep, pure bigotry bill, not surprising that religious and right wing hotbed illinois beat us in getting this law passed. Tic
Nuke, please do not vote until or attempt to sway others over to your incorrect and uninformed political viewpoints until you have become educated.
Thanks.
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topic view user...Originally posted by NukeLaloosh:
Those that justify their own bigotry by hiding behind the bigotry of others are cowards. Once you enter into the public arena by registering a business, you are entering into a public contract, and accepting all that comes with it. This includes access to the public commons (roads, police, monetary system, legal system, etc.) including civil rights. I can't not sell you a hamburger because you're black, gay, etc even if I'm a racist "religious" homophobe because I'd be denying a fellow citizen their civil rights in a public arena. It's not the same as refusing entry to a black, gay, etc. person to your private residence. Then you're just being a prick.
This is codified hate written by "religious" bigots. I have plenty of information. Thanks.
That's the major problem with politics in general. There is no incentive for any politician to do anything useful. All they do is put on a show to win votes.Originally posted by purduesteelers:
Bill accomplishes absolutely nothing except that it divides many of the politicians' constituents. What a meaningful way for Indiana legislators to spend their time! /s
Maybe politicians should actually try to help the people instead of score cheap political points? By the way, I'm not registered democrat or republican, but I can tell you that several of my young republican friends are now going to vote democrat simply because of republican politicians' outdated stances on social issues. Other states are moving forward and Indiana is moving backward...
I would add one thing, and this goes to the ridiculous notion of corporations as people, IMHO if you have incorporated your buisness for the protections and advantages that the government/people grant them then you can't discriminate. I don't care the number of shareholders.Originally posted by NukeLaloosh:
...Once you enter into the public arena by registering a business, you are entering into a public contract, and accepting all that comes with it. This includes access to the public commons (roads, police, monetary system, legal system, etc.) including civil rights...
But again, this bill is not intended to allow you to not serve people of a certain group. I'm Catholic, say I came into your bakery and wanted a baptism cake for my child. At this point, you should have the right to say, "look man, we don't make baptism cakes because Catholics do not good for the world, no charity, no help to the sick, no education of young in poor countries". I would have to say "ok, will you sell me a donut?" Then you say yes and I go on my way. Now, I'm free to bad mouth your company all I want, but as long as you don't refuse me service and only refuse a certain request, I'm ok with that.Originally posted by NukeLaloosh:
What if I believe Christians are responsible for millions of historical deaths in religious fueled hate and I refuse to serve them in my business - can I do that?
Once again, when you enter the public arena and depend on the commons to conduct business, then you have to respect civil rights of EVERYONE. It doesn't matter what your religion informs you to do (no matter how hateful and bigoted those actions might be); it only matters that you are no longer the judge of what is acceptable. You are now beholden to the agreed-upon civil rights of our shared society.
Yes, you absolutely have that right, and as a Christian I support it 100%. Just like a baker that refuses to make a wedding cake for a gay couple would have to deal with the consequences, from a publicity standpoint, so would you, but the government has no right to step in and control the situation.Originally posted by NukeLaloosh:
What if I believe Christians are responsible for millions of historical deaths in religious fueled hate and I refuse to serve them in my business - can I do that?
Once again, when you enter the public arena and depend on the commons to conduct business, then you have to respect civil rights of EVERYONE. It doesn't matter what your religion informs you to do (no matter how hateful and bigoted those actions might be); it only matters that you are no longer the judge of what is acceptable. You are now beholden to the agreed-upon civil rights of our shared society.
And that would not be allowed under this bill. Just like it wouldn't allow me to refuse service a gay person, only that I don't have to sell them a cake with two grooms on top.Originally posted by NukeLaloosh:
"Nope, sorry dude, How do I know you won't serve that donut at your baby drowning ritual? Take a hike. Next."
I said "when possible" when referring to who I choose to do business with. I'm sure I unwittingly give my business to companies, that support initiatives that I don't agree with, every day.Originally posted by NukeLaloosh:
Sure, easy stance to take when you're in the majority. But you sure wouldn't be happy if you couldn't find anywhere to buy a car because all the salesmen are gay.
Look man, I don't quite know why this is so hard for you to understand, but no one is advocating what you are saying. No one wants preclusion for services, only that I should not be made to offer a special service for you that is offensive to me. As for dictatorial regimes, they start when the Government tells you what you have to do and do not allow for any individual choices.Originally posted by NukeLaloosh:
Interesting. So, if my "religion" precludes me from serving Catholics and I claim impunity based on this law, then I suppose I'm not violating the First Amendment. Good to know. It's not at all how dictatorial regimes operated in the past.
Yes!Originally posted by kescwi:
Okay, so in the Indianapolis cake thing, this law would force them to make the cake just not force them to decorate it in a way they were uncomfortable with?