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Must read article on Purdue Football

The link doesnt work, but I found it on the sbnation college football front page easily

Its great to see someone writing an article of this nature.

'Injury ravaged' is a stretch for me. Really that was just the linebackers, and they didnt seem like the weak point to me.

I would buy the tone of the article in total if I felt QB play and star development would be better. For example, they reference Anthrops loss as impactful to the offense, but should have been getting more out of guys like Yancey all year long anyway. Plus, Etling and Applebe look worse for their starting time to me.

Didnt understand what most of their statistics meant.
 
You can rip Hazell for not having kids engaged (like Yancey), but the previous coach had the same issues with tons of guys.

The fact of the matter is, we are trying to dig out of a big time talent deficit hole and honestly not doing a great job of it recruiting wise. I think player development (DBs and LBs and this will be the year to see if the OL has actually improved) has been better with this staff though and that is one component a Purdue coach HAS to have to be somewhat successful.

This was a long rebuild, and that was evident with 2013. Sure, on paper that was MAYBE a 4 win team and we didn't get there....but that team was young, thin and inexperienced at pretty much every position that mattered. The team in 2012 was incredibly lucky to get to a bowl, and lost about 80% of its offensive production going into 2013. While getting waxed every week was not what was to be expected, it was hard to look at the team and think of different outcomes most games with hall of fame coaches at the helm.

I think 2015 is critical...it will show if this team is ever really going anywhere. Hazell recruits or guys he has had 2+ years to develop will litter the 2 deeps. This team is as deep on paper at key positions as it might ever be. Its time to put up or shut up honestly. I think we are in for another tough year, but I think the D will turn the corner and go from below average to good...and building. I still think we have a stinking turd pile as our OC.....and as long as he is here this team will not be successful. That said, with another sub 100 ranked total offense showing....they have to get rid of him.....right? please?
 
I dunno. Hazell actually strikes me like he might actually prefer his buyout to making changes that he doesnt want. Its clear Shoop is to Hazell and Nord is to Hope. I also think Hazell's role in the offense is understated.

And yes, both Hope and Hazell are pretty bad at developing consistent play from players or units. I think the defense will be better assignment wise and against the run. The two new safties scares me. Frankies move back to CB bugs me too. Safety clearly looked to be his more natural position, and sure I could be wrong about that. It makes me nervous that they feel that poorly about the CBs. At least the safeties arent true freshman, and could perform well.

Also not so sure that 2015 is critical. I bet another 3 win season keeps the staff intact. Hard to say since attendance and reputation are already dirt, if Burke will feel he needs to make a move. He seems like a pretty big fan of Hazell.
 
Frankie's move is about health. He is less likely to get another concussion at CB.
 
boiler17 said:
I dunno. Hazell actually strikes me like he might actually prefer his buyout to making changes that he doesnt want. Its clear Shoop is to Hazell and Nord is to Hope. I also think Hazell's role in the offense is understated.

And yes, both Hope and Hazell are pretty bad at developing consistent play from players or units. I think the defense will be better assignment wise and against the run. The two new safties scares me. Frankies move back to CB bugs me too. Safety clearly looked to be his more natural position, and sure I could be wrong about that. It makes me nervous that they feel that poorly about the CBs. At least the safeties arent true freshman, and could perform well.

Also not so sure that 2015 is critical. I bet another 3 win season keeps the staff intact. Hard to say since attendance and reputation are already dirt, if Burke will feel he needs to make a move. He seems like a pretty big fan of Hazell.
Click to expand...

As Nat said, Frankie is at CB to hopefully avoid more concussions.

I am not worried about the safeties. Ask yourself....when was the last time we had a really good one anyway? I think Evyn Cooper comes in and is an immediate playmaker for us. He might not know the position well, but he's too physically talented to not be on the field. HE won't start the year as a starter...but he'll work himself in eventually. He's going to be an absolute stud for us.

I also think we can find somebody serviceable out of Gregory, Cason and Logan.

I dont think you can keep the staff intact without breaking the top 85 in total offense. Even the Hope/Nord teams that were offensively challenged weren't THAT inept. If the staff is intact, 2016 won't be worth watching either and Hazell will most likely be collecting that buyout.
 
pboiler18 said:
As Nat said, Frankie is at CB to hopefully avoid more concussions.

I am not worried about the safeties. Ask yourself....when was the last time we had a really good one anyway? I think Evyn Cooper comes in and is an immediate playmaker for us. He might not know the position well, but he's too physically talented to not be on the field. HE won't start the year as a starter...but he'll work himself in eventually. He's going to be an absolute stud for us.

I also think we can find somebody serviceable out of Gregory, Cason and Logan.

I dont think you can keep the staff intact without breaking the top 85 in total offense. Even the Hope/Nord teams that were offensively challenged weren't THAT inept. If the staff is intact, 2016 won't be worth watching either and Hazell will most likely be collecting that buyout.
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if there isn't significant improvement this year, I'd have PJ Fleck on speed dial.
 
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I'll buy sleeping and creaping but it will take a lot to be a leap unless you count 6-6 a leap.
 
SIBoiler2 said:
I'll buy sleeping and creaping but it will take a lot to be a leap unless you count 6-6 a leap.
Click to expand...

If things start falling into place, 6-6 is for sure possible....and id say a big leap considereing that would increase our win total 150% over his first 2 years.
 
6-6 is just beating two ooc patsies along with the final four: Illinois, Northwestern, Iowa, and IU.
 
right, and given its been so bad, that would be the smallest increase I could still consider a leap.
 
pboiler18 said:
As Nat said, Frankie is at CB to hopefully avoid more concussions.

I am not worried about the safeties. Ask yourself....when was the last time we had a really good one anyway? I think Evyn Cooper comes in and is an immediate playmaker for us. He might not know the position well, but he's too physically talented to not be on the field. HE won't start the year as a starter...but he'll work himself in eventually. He's going to be an absolute stud for us.

I also think we can find somebody serviceable out of Gregory, Cason and Logan.

I dont think you can keep the staff intact without breaking the top 85 in total offense. Even the Hope/Nord teams that were offensively challenged weren't THAT inept. If the staff is intact, 2016 won't be worth watching either and Hazell will most likely be collecting that buyout.
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Leroy Clark will be a starting safety.
 
Generally I agree with the comments of previous posters. What I find most disturbing of our supposed rebuild of our football program is how disappointing our recruiting has been There is a lot to criticize Hope for but he was relatively more successful than Hazell has been in attracting talent. It is hard to see us building a successful football program unless our recruiting improves. Norm
 
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npb said:
Generally I agree with the comments of previous posters. What I find most disturbing of our supposed rebuild of our football program is how disappointing our recruiting has been There is a lot to criticize Hope for but he was relatively more successful than Hazell has been in attracting talent. It is hard to see us building a successful football program unless our recruiting improves. Norm
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It is not just hard to see building a successful football program unless recruiting improves, it is nearly impossible...and given that one of the reasons for hiring Hazell and an alleged strength of his was his ability to recruit, I would suggest that to date that has absolutely not been the case...I might even go as far as to say that he is the worst recruiter of at least the last four head coaches at Purdue.
 
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pboiler18 said:
As Nat said, Frankie is at CB to hopefully avoid more concussions.

I am not worried about the safeties. Ask yourself....when was the last time we had a really good one anyway? I think Evyn Cooper comes in and is an immediate playmaker for us. He might not know the position well, but he's too physically talented to not be on the field. HE won't start the year as a starter...but he'll work himself in eventually. He's going to be an absolute stud for us.

I also think we can find somebody serviceable out of Gregory, Cason and Logan.

I dont think you can keep the staff intact without breaking the top 85 in total offense. Even the Hope/Nord teams that were offensively challenged weren't THAT inept. If the staff is intact, 2016 won't be worth watching either and Hazell will most likely be collecting that buyout.
Click to expand...
Can't believe you left out Leroy Clark in your "analysis" of our safeties, probable starter.
 
DG10 said:
It is not just hard to see building a successful football program unless recruiting improves, it is nearly impossible...and given that one of the reasons for hiring Hazell and an alleged strength of his was his ability to recruit, I would suggest that to date that has absolutely not been the case...I might even go as far as to say that he is the worst recruiter of at least the last four head coaches at Purdue.
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So, just a few weeks ago, was Painter a bad or average recruiter?
 
New Pal Boiler said:
Are you really comparing the football recruiting base with the basketball recruiting base?
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Nay. It just seems that where there is momentum, there is momentum in many facets. With no momentum, everything seems flat. Our football program has been a little flat as of late.
Remember the great crowds and excitement when Hazel took over; the big opening pep rally in Indy? Boy, we were in for the best times of our lives; so we believed. But, it didn't take long for the air to get out of those notions. With no momentum, it is harder to recruit; it must be the coach. Where there is momentum, it is easy to recruit and the coach is a great recruiter.
 
SIBoiler2 said:
Which we have yet to show the ability to achieve.
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Also, you really think we can win 2 big ten road games? We have beat a horrific Illinois team on the road and that's it in the last 2 years. This is not a good year to try to take a step forward. Our schedule is brutal.
 
The premise is a third year leap, so it implies some optimism.

I am saying an average big ten team goes at least 6-6. Our schedule is far from brutal. VT doesnt scare me anymore than ND did. And Marshall is a nonP5 school without its 4 year starter at QB. Michigan State is a sure loss, and we have even played them well the last two years. Wisky, Nebraska, and Minny are probable losses and 2/3 of those teams are at home and they are all huge question marks because they all replace key players. Every other team isnt that much better or worse than Purdue. Get over that extremely poor analysis of Purdue having the 6th toughest schedule when we dont even play OSU, Michigan, or Penn State. All the good schools we play replace their best players.

Im standing by my two win prediction (Indiana State and some junky big ten team), but I can see the rationale for improvement.

It really makes me crazy when people start talking on here like no other logic than their own is fathomable.
 
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boiler17 said:
The premise is a third year leap, so it implies some optimism.

I am saying an average big ten team goes at least 6-6. Our schedule is far from brutal. VT doesnt scare me anymore than ND did. And Marshall is a nonP5 school without its 4 year starter at QB. Michigan State is a sure loss, and we have even played them well the last two years. Wisky, Nebraska, and Minny are probable losses and 2/3 of those teams are at home and they are all huge question marks because they all replace key players. Every other team isnt that much better or worse than Purdue. Get over that extremely poor analysis of Purdue having the 6th toughest schedule when we dont even play OSU, Michigan, or Penn State. All the good schools we play replace their best players.

Im standing by my two win prediction (Indiana State and some junky big ten team), but I can see the rationale for improvement.

It really makes me crazy when people start talking on here like no other logic than their own is fathomable.
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This.

The B1G West is going to be horri-bad this year. None of the teams look to have an abundance of talent, and none of the coaching staffs outside of Minnesota have done jack in the last 5 years or so. Every single division game should be considered a toss-up at this point.
 
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It's a little early to bash Hazell's recruiting. Your just upset that there aren't as many stars next to the kids names as you think there should be.

He's brought in some good finds. Hell Bentley could be the best Purdue linebacker to suit up for us in my lifetime.

Knox looks to be a steal, Jones was a good get too. The O-line is solid. Hedelin was a great late get. Hard to write off any of his recruits at this point.

This next year will tell a whole lot
 
4 of the 5 starters and 5 of the 6 best linemen were hope recruits. As for stars, he was trumpted as an improvement in the recruiting department. So far, the services have determined he isnt.
 
  • The schedule is brutal again this year. Given Hazell's history I guess we probably win 1-3 games. If Hope was our coach I think he could win at least 4.
 
nat100 said:
4 of the 5 starters and 5 of the 6 best linemen were hope recruits. As for stars, he was trumpted as an improvement in the recruiting department. So far, the services have determined he isnt.
Click to expand...
Recruiting services and Hope both loved good athletes that weren't good football players.
 
nat100 said:
If that's what you need to tell yourself
Click to expand...

Look at our steep drop off in NFL talent over the past 4-5 years. That can be DIRECTLY attributed to Hope's poor recruiting, especially in skill areas where we still are hurting to build depth.

This is the first year where post season Hazell's players will even be draft eligible. I think its clear there are a lot of talented guys he brought in, most are just young. I expect Panfil and Robinson to both be NFL caliber DEs by the time they leave. Bentley is an incredible get. Some of the young guys on the OL will litter the 2 deeps....and have time to learn and physically develop unlike when Hope neglected OL for his first 3 years here in recruiting.

You can be mad at the results stars wise, but we have a lot of very good players coming in this year. Chazmyn Turner is a complete beast. That kid has an incredible frame....and was only a 2 star? He must not be a very good football player.....or the truth....rankings services never saw him play and he got tossed a 2 star rating because they didnt evaluate him....
 
pboiler18 said:
Look at our steep drop off in NFL talent over the past 4-5 years. That can be DIRECTLY attributed to Hope's poor recruiting, especially in skill areas where we still are hurting to build depth.

This is the first year where post season Hazell's players will even be draft eligible. I think its clear there are a lot of talented guys he brought in, most are just young. I expect Panfil and Robinson to both be NFL caliber DEs by the time they leave. Bentley is an incredible get. Some of the young guys on the OL will litter the 2 deeps....and have time to learn and physically develop unlike when Hope neglected OL for his first 3 years here in recruiting.

You can be mad at the results stars wise, but we have a lot of very good players coming in this year. Chazmyn Turner is a complete beast. That kid has an incredible frame....and was only a 2 star? He must not be a very good football player.....or the truth....rankings services never saw him play and he got tossed a 2 star rating because they didnt evaluate him....
Click to expand...

The drop off started with tiller. Hope continued it

As for draft eligible, most of the good players in he 2013 class we're hope commits.

Finally, there is a correlation between recruit class rankings and performance. Not complete and players do fall through the cracks, but don't discount the servicea
 
pboiler18 said:
A 2 win prediction is silly, especially when we won 3 last year and were competitive in 4 others
Click to expand...

Why? You lose Hunt and Mostert and still have no QB. I do think the emphasis on deep balls will help the running game, but thinking we can start airing it out without turnovers from these QB's is very optimistic. The defense will be good against the run, but I see no reason to think we can generate pressure against the QB without blitzing meaning that we probably give up lots of 3rd down conversions.

Dont forget to factor in that Hazell will have some legit quality performances against good teams that still result in a loss and blowout losses to teams that shouldnt happen. Youre welcome to buy into the leap/improvement line, but weve been fed this line before.

I did really like the look of our running backs, but there is a huge jump between a bottom teir mismatched spring defense and big ten play. Not to mention Hunt and Mosterts' quickness was entirely what the offense was built upon. This year will be more about ball control/drive management and hoping to get lucky with wideouts that have impressed no one.

But hey, keep insisting improvement is right around the corner, and you'll strike paydirt eventually
 
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pboiler18 said:
Look at our steep drop off in NFL talent over the past 4-5 years. That can be DIRECTLY attributed to Hope's poor recruiting, especially in skill areas where we still are hurting to build depth.

This is the first year where post season Hazell's players will even be draft eligible. I think its clear there are a lot of talented guys he brought in, most are just young. I expect Panfil and Robinson to both be NFL caliber DEs by the time they leave. Bentley is an incredible get. Some of the young guys on the OL will litter the 2 deeps....and have time to learn and physically develop unlike when Hope neglected OL for his first 3 years here in recruiting.

You can be mad at the results stars wise, but we have a lot of very good players coming in this year. Chazmyn Turner is a complete beast. That kid has an incredible frame....and was only a 2 star? He must not be a very good football player.....or the truth....rankings services never saw him play and he got tossed a 2 star rating because they didnt evaluate him....
Click to expand...
 
"Chazmyn Turner is a complete beast. That kid has an incredible frame....and was only a 2 star? He must not be a very good football player.....or the truth....rankings services never saw him play and he got tossed a 2 star rating because they didn't evaluate him....

...but other coaches probably DID look at him and didn't think he deserved a major Div. 1 scholarship. You act like "coach" hazell and his staff are the only one's that can evaluate or find some "hidden talent" LOL. So far, if anything, they've shown they either can't recruit top Div. 1 talent or they're really bad at evaluating talent....I think it's a alot of both.
 
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