Mike Pence Should Step Down.

[ecouch]

After the debacle on the Sunday morning circuit, losing his cool today during another presser,
and his inability to say that discrimination is wrong, Mike Pence needs
to do the IN GOP, as well as the national GOP a favor, and step aside.
The damage is done. The complete lack of optics doing this the week an
event larger than the Super Bowl is in town displays terrible
leadership. Inviting known hate groups to the private, no press,
invitation only bill signing was over the top.


The VP of VisitIndy was on the radio this afternoon discussing the
millions of dollars Pence has cost hard working Hoosier families.


It is time for the real leaders in the IN GOP to step forward and end the
suffering. This will spill into 2016 presidential elections so I would
wager state leaders could easily get the backing of prominent national
GOP leaders.

They did it with Delph when he went off the rails with Christianity and gays, they can do it to Pence as well. The support is there amongst the white shoes and business leaders. Pence is perceived as rube amongst the players within the GOP.

 

[bodog57]

Originally posted by ecouch:
After the debacle on the Sunday morning circuit, losing his cool today during another presser,
and his inability to say that discrimination is wrong, Mike Pence needs
to do the IN GOP, as well as the national GOP a favor, and step aside.
The damage is done. The complete lack of optics doing this the week an
event larger than the Super Bowl is in town displays terrible
leadership. Inviting known hate groups to the private, no press,
invitation only bill signing was over the top.


The VP of VisitIndy was on the radio this afternoon discussing the
millions of dollars Pence has cost hard working Hoosier families.


It is time for the real leaders in the IN GOP to step forward and end the
suffering. This will spill into 2016 presidential elections so I would
wager state leaders could easily get the backing of prominent national
GOP leaders.

They did it with Delph when he went off the rails with Christianity and gays, they can do it to Pence as well. The support is there amongst the white shoes and business leaders. Pence is perceived as rube amongst the players within the GOP.

That won't happen, he's Gov. of Indiana. Not exactly a bastion of great intelligence, and he has GOD on his side. Economic welfare of the state be dammed, he is the face of the Republican Party and all but 5 of them agree with him.

 

[ecouch]

Even worse is when a leader blames the free press. Watch him completely
lose his cool today after he exhausted his talking points and prepared
remarks. He is unwilling to own it. He is appealing to conspiracy
theory. Good grief.


Luckily we have common sense GOP leaders like Indy mayor Ballard speaking out against this abomination.


Indiana is the national laughing stock. This weekend, Indy lucked into
the perfect storm. A Final Four with 3 regional teams, 2 of which are
border states. Yet when the hundreds of thousands sit in resturant
lounges and bars the topic of discussion will be how Indiana hates gays.
They will see the protests. They will read local news.


Awful leadership. If the GOP wants to save any face, locally and nationally, Mike Pence must step down.

There really needs to be some national level GOP pressure if the GOP ever wants to sit the big chair again.

 

[threeeputtt]

These posts are heterophobic and hateful (see I can play the game too-this NOT really aimed at the thread starter)! Look, what people do in their private lives is their business on social mores and morality. Discriminatory? My opinion is every bit valid as the next guy. The real ISSUE is not religious based. It is all about what conduct and behavior our society wants to approve. Some do and some don't on this issue. This is NOT about skin color or the like that you can't change or control. IF the majority pushes for change in area, I don't have to agree with it-again it is an opinion on conduct and behavior (choices). I will accept it.

Look at the hypocrisy of the NCAA and the Apple CEO. The NCAA screws the indentured athlete and Apple winks at countries that have multiple human rights issues. Where does society keep from going in circles?







This post was edited on 3/31 10:39 PM by threeeputtt

 

[gr8indoorsman]

Stop it with the "suffering" crap. Good grief. People in Syria and Iraq and Tibet are "suffering". This perception about possible discrimination isn't "suffering".

So overdramatic about this...
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[Beeazlebub]

Originally posted by gr8indoorsman:
Stop it with the "suffering" crap. Good grief. People in Syria and Iraq and Tibet are "suffering". This perception about possible discrimination isn't "suffering".

So overdramatic about this...
Posted from Rivals Mobile

For the businesses and jobs that have been hurt by this bill, I think suffering is an appropriate term. The economic impact of this ridiculous legislation is the most profound.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

Originally posted by Beeazlebub:

Originally posted by gr8indoorsman:
Stop it with the "suffering" crap. Good grief. People in Syria and Iraq and Tibet are "suffering". This perception about possible discrimination isn't "suffering".

So overdramatic about this...
Posted from Rivals Mobile

For the businesses and jobs that have been hurt by this bill, I think suffering is an appropriate term. The economic impact of this ridiculous legislation is the most profound.

I will go ahead and stand by my statement...
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[BBG]

Originally posted by gr8indoorsman:

Originally posted by Beeazlebub:

Originally posted by gr8indoorsman:
Stop it with the "suffering" crap. Good grief. People in Syria and Iraq and Tibet are "suffering". This perception about possible discrimination isn't "suffering".

So overdramatic about this...
Posted from Rivals Mobile

For the businesses and jobs that have been hurt by this bill, I think suffering is an appropriate term. The economic impact of this ridiculous legislation is the most profound.

I will go ahead and stand by my statement...
Posted from Rivals Mobile

I will support your statement. People here in the states that claim "suffering" have no idea what that term truly means and they should be thankful.

In regards to this bill, it is similar to bills in 19 other states and based off of one Clinton put in to law during his administration. Which makes this even more overblown because I guarantee that probably 90% of the people protesting this thing probably A) Don't know that and most importantly B) Can't even cite the section that they think is discriminatory.

Basically I think the people all up in arms over this saw the words "religious" and "bill" or some such and got all in a tizzy over something they truly don't even understand.

 

[indyogb]

I think you're dead on. It's a social contagion at this point.

 

[bodog57]

Originally posted by BBG:

Originally posted by gr8indoorsman:

Originally posted by Beeazlebub:

Originally posted by gr8indoorsman:
Stop it with the "suffering" crap. Good grief. People in Syria and Iraq and Tibet are "suffering". This perception about possible discrimination isn't "suffering".

So overdramatic about this...

Posted from Rivals Mobile

For the businesses and jobs that have been hurt by this bill, I think suffering is an appropriate term. The economic impact of this ridiculous legislation is the most profound.

I will go ahead and stand by my statement...

Posted from Rivals Mobile

I will support your statement. People here in the states that claim "suffering" have no idea what that term truly means and they should be thankful.

In regards to this bill, it is similar to bills in 19 other states and based off of one Clinton put in to law during his administration. Which makes this even more overblown because I guarantee that probably 90% of the people protesting this thing probably A) Don't know that and most importantly B) Can't even cite the section that they think is discriminatory.

Basically I think the people all up in arms over this saw the words "religious" and "bill" or some such and got all in a tizzy over something they truly don't even understand.

It's not all that similar to the Clinton bill, so you may be the one who doesn't really understand.

 

[kescwi]

Well I would think pretty much everyone knows about the 19 states and Clinton... Because that's been the only defense from day one and has been repeated over and over again. I would think if this bill didn't allow for discrimination that would be much easier to say and would answer the concerns directly far better than the 19 states, Clinton, Obama... justification.

So does this bill allow businesses to discriminate or not?
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[BBG]

Originally posted by bodog57:

Originally posted by BBG:

Originally posted by gr8indoorsman:

Originally posted by Beeazlebub:

Originally posted by gr8indoorsman:
Stop it with the "suffering" crap. Good grief. People in Syria and Iraq and Tibet are "suffering". This perception about possible discrimination isn't "suffering".

So overdramatic about this...

Posted from Rivals Mobile

For the businesses and jobs that have been hurt by this bill, I think suffering is an appropriate term. The economic impact of this ridiculous legislation is the most profound.

I will go ahead and stand by my statement...

Posted from Rivals Mobile

I will support your statement. People here in the states that claim "suffering" have no idea what that term truly means and they should be thankful.

In regards to this bill, it is similar to bills in 19 other states and based off of one Clinton put in to law during his administration. Which makes this even more overblown because I guarantee that probably 90% of the people protesting this thing probably A) Don't know that and most importantly B) Can't even cite the section that they think is discriminatory.

Basically I think the people all up in arms over this saw the words "religious" and "bill" or some such and got all in a tizzy over something they truly don't even understand.

It's not all that similar to the Clinton bill, so you may be the one who doesn't really understand.

Hence why I said "based off of". But thanks for proving my point.

 

[atmafola]

Seems Pense really effed up with bill. He should have played it like a politician rather than a partisan.

1. expressed that personally he agreed with the religious freedom part
2. declared that he was seriously considering signing it but still critically examining it
3. allowed businesses and the medica to cause lots of ruckus about what will happen if the bill was signed
4. ultimately decide not to sign it like the Arizona governor did, while pointing to some defendable reason

He would have come out looking like an all-star. The business will take the brunt of the heat from the social conservative. Instead he rushed to sign the bill and now deservedly looks like a bumbling buffoon.

 

[Purdue 95]

I don't believe for a second that people really want that. Nor do people want the bill to be repealed or changed in any way. The media wants something that they can leverage to get people into a frenzy, and there is a limitless supply of people who will fall right in line, believe, and do everything the media wants them to do. Congrats to them on being pawns, letting the media think for you, and doing exactly as you are told. Good little soldiers.

All these businesses and other entities popping their heads up and trying to win favor in the media when they otherwise have nothing to do with the State of Indiana are pretty hilarious. Andrew Cuomo has cut off travel to Indiana by state employees. OK. Tell me what business state workers in New York do here. My guess: little to none.

It's another Ferguson, basically. Instead of race-baiting people with the "hands up, don't shoot" story that turned out to be totally bogus, this time it's gay-baiting people and convincing them that suddenly gays all over the state are going to be denied service everywhere they go.

Utter nonsense.

 

[bodog57]

Originally posted by BBG:

Originally posted by bodog57:

Originally posted by BBG:

Originally posted by gr8indoorsman:

Originally posted by Beeazlebub:

Originally posted by gr8indoorsman:
Stop it with the "suffering" crap. Good grief. People in Syria and Iraq and Tibet are "suffering". This perception about possible discrimination isn't "suffering".

So overdramatic about this...



Posted from Rivals Mobile

For the businesses and jobs that have been hurt by this bill, I think suffering is an appropriate term. The economic impact of this ridiculous legislation is the most profound.

I will go ahead and stand by my statement...



Posted from Rivals Mobile

I will support your statement. People here in the states that claim "suffering" have no idea what that term truly means and they should be thankful.

In regards to this bill, it is similar to bills in 19 other states and based off of one Clinton put in to law during his administration. Which makes this even more overblown because I guarantee that probably 90% of the people protesting this thing probably A) Don't know that and most importantly B) Can't even cite the section that they think is discriminatory.

Basically I think the people all up in arms over this saw the words "religious" and "bill" or some such and got all in a tizzy over something they truly don't even understand.

It's not all that similar to the Clinton bill, so you may be the one who doesn't really understand.

Hence why I said "based off of". But thanks for proving my point.

This post was edited on 4/1 8:24 AM by bodog57

Not sure how this makes your point, but ok

 

[GMM]

Then you should lecture.....

.......the boycotters for causing suffering. Also, for being raging hypocrites about it. For example, they won't boycott the other states that have a similar law. Then there's Tim Cook, Apple CEO, who made sure everyone knew how disgusted he was by the law. Apple has a store open in Iran. There are numerous other examples of people who've expressed outrage!!!!! over the Indiana law but willingly do business with countries where gay marriage isn't even a rumor.

More phony outrage.

 

[GMM]

Yeah, maybe he should

For not being able to see the inevitable onslaught of lies, hysteria, hatred, and intimidation that came his way because of this bill. There's no excuse for a "leader" to be this clueless about the thug mentality of the left. He should've been well prepared to defend this state and this law. He wasn't.

 

[BoilersRock]

According to Pence, yesterday, the bill does not make discrimination against non-protected groups (gays/Lesbians) legal. But as has alrady been pointed out here, it lacks certain verbiage that would address discrimination against non-protected groups (gays/Lesbians).

 

[ecouch]

Tulle from the Indy Star lays it out quite nicely.

The issue at hand goes deeper than just RFRA.

Turning down money for schools because Obama money bad.

We are seeing the exact same pattern as when Pence was caught starting up a state owned news organization.

On Monday, he endorses it. Midweek - off to Garrison show to clarify. Pence's Pravada is canned by the weekend. He went from - endorse to clarify to overzealous staffers I had no idea what was going on. In other words, a lying sack.

When you have to "clarify" a horribly damaging piece of legislation that
you raced to sign, when you dodge a question on national TV about
whether discrimination is legal in your state, when you deal your state a
crushing economic blow, when you seem incapable of understanding the
role you have played in creating this mess - well, that makes clear that
you are not in the right job.

Pence wants to blame this on media and doesn't his roll in the fiasco. I guess this is why he needs his own state ran media outlet.

IndyStar - Unfit to Lead.

 

[RegionWarrior101]

He won't. He will win in 2016. BUT....

I did read an interesting take on the matter from then governor of Hammond, Indiana. He said, and I have heard this, Mike Pence boasting that he is running Indiana like a business. That would make Mike Pence the CEO of Indiana. If the CEO of a major corporation did what he did and handled things like he handled them, any board of directors would ask them to step down and resign.

This is twice now (this year?) in a few months that he has stepped in it. First with the state-run news agency. Now with how he handled the Religious Freedom legislation. One could also argue the handling of the State Board of Ed/State Superintendent (I agree it should be appointed but now is not the time to do so) I thought Mike Pence was a little more shrewd than this. He only won the 2012 election by 3% over a guy with no name recognition and no money. He received 100,000+ votes less than the Superintendent of Public Instruction received in the same election. Now he has stirred up moderate people against him. Not too smart.

Pence Should Resign

 

[BoilerGrad02]

It's blatantly obvious that Pence has been governing to promote himself to the right on the national stage. Turning down millions of federal money, state run media to promote his initiatives and accomplishments and now this. This was his solution to a problem that never existed. Why? So he could grab national headlines as the conservative, Christian valued governor who was the new darling of the Republican party (but oh how that backfired, Pence's political brand has almost no value now because his seen as ether bigoted, myopic or simply stupid, and in some cases all three, by a vast majority of people). There was no outcry for this bill by the general public.

It's truly disgusting that so many politicians (on both the right and left) see themselves as rulers who know what's best for their constituents instead of civil servants who attempt to serve their constituents by representing their views in politics. It's hubris brought on by believing the vast majority of voters elected them to rule with their superior abilities (when it's usually a slight majority that saw them as the lesser of two evils on a few issues). It's even worse that they'll act for their own political gain instead of for the benefit of their constituents.

I said it in another thread but I heard Pence talk on entitlement reform years ago (something I support) and ended up thinking "this guy has absolutely no critical thinking skills". Understanding things that would occur three or four steps down the line just didn't register when he was answering questions, he would pause and then just repeat one of his talking points. It was like someone was pulling a sting on the back of his jacket every time he needed to respond to and answer a question. Just 3-4 vague stock responses with no substance (and I think we've all seen this in his interviews/press conferences following the backlash). This situation has only bolstered my original thought.

 

[abastnag]

That's the crux of this entire ordeal. It's what this entire discussion is about. No one is willing to address it, esp on this message board. I just want a reasonable discussion, but a lot of people seem to be sticking their fingers in their ears when they are asked this directly...

 

[gr8indoorsman]

Re: Then you should lecture.....

Originally posted by GMM:
.......the boycotters for causing suffering. Also, for being raging hypocrites about it. For example, they won't boycott the other states that have a similar law. Then there's Tim Cook, Apple CEO, who made sure everyone knew how disgusted he was by the law. Apple has a store open in Iran. There are numerous other examples of people who've expressed outrage!!!!! over the Indiana law but willingly do business with countries where gay marriage isn't even a rumor.

This is actually a really good point, GMM. It is certainly hypocritical for Tim Cook to express such outrage while his company sells products in Saudi Arabia, where homosexuals are stoned to death based on religious beliefs.

 

[purduedavie]

Re: Yeah, maybe he should


Not just from the left unless you consider NASCAR and Eli Lilly leftists. From wanting to create a gov't run news agency to this to go along with his pitiful TV appearances, not the best start of the year for Pence. His Presidential dreams are dead, he might have a hard time winning reelection in 16.

 

[Yoderboy89]

Sure you've publicly commented on the lying prick in the Oval Office to step down, too, right?
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[bodog57]

Originally posted by Yoderboy89:
Sure you've publicly commented on the lying prick in the Oval Office to step down, too, right?

Posted from Rivals Mobile

I could not be prouder of my country if we could find a way to get EVERY elected official from the last two or three years to resign. Lying pricks are everywhere, DUCK, there's one behind you right now!

 

[ecouch]

Wow. This is profound. Indianapolis isn't Darfur. Thus Gr8 decrees that the word suffering cannot be used.

The More You Know.

Suffering can be used for a visit from the mother in-law. Suffering can be used for pain after a surgery. Suffering can be used by folks that are the victim of discrimination, blatant or otherwise.

There are a couple seats open at the Harvard Literary Review. You should apply.

 

[ecouch]

Re: He won't. He will win in 2016. BUT....

That is a great point.

If the GOP wants government to run like a business Mike Pence would have been fired days ago.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

Originally posted by ecouch:
Wow. This is profound. Indianapolis isn't Darfur. Thus Gr8 decrees that the word suffering cannot be used.

The More You Know.

Suffering can be used for a visit from the mother in-law. Suffering can be used for pain after a surgery. Suffering can be used by folks that are the victim of discrimination, blatant or otherwise.

There are a couple seats open at the Harvard Literary Review. You should apply.

The way you're intending to use it is hyperbole and you know it. Just calling BS like I see it. Again, my heart just BLEEDS for this discrimination that maybe could possibly happen someday in the future but might not. "Suffering" indeed.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[ecouch]

The discrimination isn't happening in the future.

It is happening now. Read the statements from the people who authored the bill.

Next step. Read how they all, those fellows standing behind the governor, those folks dressed like a bottle of rum, the nuns and the rabbi...are now calling for a veto of a bill that doesn't even grant status to a person.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

Originally posted by ecouch:
The discrimination isn't happening in the future.

It is happening now. Read the statements from the people who authored the bill.

Next step. Read how they all, those fellows standing behind the governor, those folks dressed like a bottle of rum, the nuns and the rabbi...are now calling for a veto of a bill that doesn't even grant status to a person.

Oh really? Cite an example from Indiana please.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[ecouch]

Of what?

Where those who crafted the bill said they don't have to serve gays? I already have.

What about this. Here is the governors own words. Lets snap back to MikePence.com.

-No gay marriage.
-Gays can be "cured" of their disease. We should give more money to pray away the gay than AIDS research.
-No protection laws
-No gays in the military

Congress should oppose any effort to put gay and lesbian relationships on an equal legal status with heterosexual marriage.


Congress should oppose any effort to recognize homosexual's as a
"discreet and insular minority" entitled to the protection of
anti-discrimination laws similar to those extended to women and ethnic
minorities.

Congress should support the reauthorization of the Ryan White Care Act
only after completion of an audit to ensure that federal dollars were no
longer being given to organizations that celebrate and encourage the
types of behaviors that facilitate the spreading of the HIV virus.
Resources should be directed toward those institutions which provide
assistance to those seeking to change their sexual behavior

This post was edited on 4/2 11:39 PM by ecouch

This post was edited on 4/2 11:56 PM by ecouch

Mike Pence Website - The Smoking Gun

 

[ecouch]

Veto Gay Bill 2.0.

Veto.

 

[Yoderboy89]

Originally posted by bodog57:

Originally posted by Yoderboy89:
Sure you've publicly commented on the lying prick in the Oval Office to step down, too, right?

Posted from Rivals Mobile

I could not be prouder of my country if we could find a way to get EVERY elected official from the last two or three years to resign. Lying pricks are everywhere, DUCK, there's one behind you right now!

Yes, you are right. I'm 48 and have never witnessed a president pull the amount of crap and lies as this one has. That said. Most, and I mean most, are bought and sold on a level most citizens have no idea of. And you are correct that listening to the people is long gone and I'd be for replacing them all. With non political types.

And I'll say this, if gays didn't vote for Democrats, they wouldn't have the support of Democrats. That's just a fact. On a little man level, the Democrats "buy" votes with their policies and freebie giveaways. No one can argue against that, because it frames everything they do.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[gr8indoorsman]

So, people are suffering in your mind because politicians believe these things? They're hardly alone...

You've said discrimination is happening. Gays can marry. Gays can join the military. Show me a case in Indiana when homosexuals were denied private service - that's what the uproar over this bill is about after all. "Suffering!!!!"
Posted from Rivals Mobile