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Iran

Indy Star editorial, March 17th


GOP senators speak inconvenient truth about Iran
Jonah Goldberg 1:11 p.m. EDT March 17, 2015





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An
Iranian oil worker walks at Tehran's oil refinery south of the Capital
in Iran. As world powers edge toward a possible nuclear deal with Iran,
the debate has been dominated by the question whether it leaves an
opening for Iran to acquire a nuclear weapon.(Photo: AP)



It has been an Iranian tradition since 1979 to end Friday prayers with chants of "Death to America!"
In
a purely rational world, that would be all one needed to know that Iran
is not a reliable negotiating partner. Alas, we do not live in such a
world. But there's more evidence. Iran, according to our State
Department, has been the chief exporter of terrorism for the last three
decades. It has worked closely with al-Qaida, facilitating its attacks
on America and our allies. Most of the Sept. 11 hijackers traveled
through Iran with the help of the Iranian government. U.S. judges have
ruled that Iran was an accomplice in the 1998 U.S. Embassy bombings in
East Africa and the Sept. 11 attacks. During the Iraq war, Iran was
responsible for numerous American deaths.

And it's not like any of
this is ancient history. Indeed, in 2012, the Treasury Department
designated the Iranian Ministry of Intelligence and Security as a major
promoter of terrorism and violator of human rights.

Now, via its
brutal proxies, Iran is manipulating events on the ground in four Arab
capitals - Baghdad, Beirut, Damascus and Sanaa. Whatever success there
has been against the Islamic State in Saddam Hussein's hometown of
Tikrit has been thanks to Iranian advisers operating in Iraq and the
Shiite Muslim militias they control. On Sunday's "Meet the Press,"
retired Adm. Mike Mullen, former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff,
said he fears Iran more than Islamic State.

So, obviously, the
greatest villain in the world today is ... Sen. Tom Cotton, R-Ark. He
led the effort to get 46 other senators to sign a letter to the Iranian
government explaining that any deal with Iran would require
congressional approval.

The New York Daily News branded them all
"TRAITORS" on its front page. Isn't it amazing how even vaguely
questioning the patriotism of liberals is an outrage beyond the borders
of acceptable debate, but branding 47 GOP senators "traitors" is treated
as at least forgivable bombast? Retired Maj. Gen. Paul Eaton told the
Washington Post they aren't traitors, they're merely "mutinous,"
revealing Eaton's shocking ignorance of our constitutional structure.
Yes, Obama is the commander in chief of the armed forces, but he is not
the commander in chief of the co-equal legislative branch.

Petitions
are circling to have the senators carted off to jail under the Logan
Act - which bars unauthorized citizens from negotiating with foreign
governments - a ridiculously antiquated law that would never survive
Supreme Court scrutiny today.
Moreover, if the Logan Act were
taken seriously, many of the lions of the Democratic Party, including
Ted Kennedy, Patrick Leahy, Nancy Pelosi and Robert Byrd, would have
ended their careers behind bars. Why, John Kerry - who recently
denounced the Cotton letter as "unconstitutional" - could show Cotton
around the federal penitentiary, given Kerry's egregious meddling in
Nicaragua during the Reagan administration.

Now, I should say that
I think the senators made a mistake. They should have written an open
letter to President Obama. The Iranians would still have gotten the
message, but the White House and the punditocracy would have found it
more difficult to rationalize their insane hissy fit. And contrary to
countless outlets reporting that the Republicans "sent" this letter to
the ayatollahs, they didn't send it anywhere. It was posted on Cotton's
website.

The more important point here is that no one disagrees
with the content of the letter because it is accurate. The White House
had to admit that Cotton was right; the deal as it stands would be a
"nonbinding" agreement. And, therefore, as the letter explains, "The
next president could revoke such an executive agreement with the stroke
of a pen."
(In fact, Obama did pretty much exactly that with an
agreement struck between Israel and the United States about settlement
growth in Palestinian territories.)

This premature admission is
politically inconvenient for the Obama administration because it wants
to get the United Nations to approve the deal, making it a fait
accompli. It hoped to get to that point without anyone noticing.

The
Cotton letter is not mutinous or traitorous or unconstitutional. It is
inconvenient, and apparently being inconvenient in the age of Obama is
all it takes to be called unpatriotic.

Goldberg is a fellow at the American Enterprise Institute and a senior editor of National Review. You can contact him at goldbergcolumn@gmail.com, or via Twitter @JonahNRO.
 
let's just address

the whole "the next President could revoke with the stroke of a pen" fallacy.

No, they couldn't. The deal, if there even ends up being a deal, would eventually go to the UN, where it would be "ratified" for want of a better world. It would become international law. And President's can't just stroke of a pen their way out of settled international law easily.
 
Right but

The way I see it, as of now, when Iran gets close to having nukes, Israel is going to bomb them. Period. They may or might not be successful but they will try. Depending on our President at the time, we may do it for them.

Why? Because it comes off as a cleaner situation. Israel bombing Iran surely starts a very large regional war. The US, not sure it does. Just the regular upheaval over there. And in the muddling mideast, even though a war starts if Israel bombs Iran, KSA and others would actually secretly support that.

Now do we need to attack them as in all out ground war-not sure anyone has ever said that.
 
A few points

-I do not think it does stop them. I think Iran will secretly pursue and obtain nukes either way. Otherwise they would not attempt to hide their construction sites from satellites, etc.

The issue I have is why give them aid/negotiate, when history shows that these regimes do not follow through on their side of the negotiation and they have done nothing to show they will. The USA just seems like we are paying them and lifting sanctions just for them to come to the table. Keep hard sanctions in place, do not give them aid, keep the money here.

-I think that timeline and details with NK are a bit off. We routinely gave them shipments of oil and food. I mean from reading your post, it says there are inspectors in country til 2003, we played hardball, and in late 2004 they had nukes. NK did not develop those nukes in just one year. It was a decades long process and in much of that time the regime got much 'humanitarian' aid.

This post was edited on 3/18 4:46 PM by Purdue97
 
Re: A few points

Originally posted by Purdue97:

The issue I have is why give them aid/negotiate (or lift sanctions), when history shows that these regimes do not follow through on their side of the negotiation and they have done nothing to show they will. The USA just seems like we are paying them and lifting sanctions just for them to come to the table.
Yup.
 
Re: let's just address

If it's a UN deal. If it's solely an executive agreement between the US and Iran, then it could absolutely be overturned.

That said, sending that letter was idiotic, and chief among the half-dozen or so idiotic things Republicans have done since taking over Congress (delaying the human trafficking bill, proposing a budget to completely repeal Obamacare...)
 
getting inspectors in

IS doing something.

I do not understand the idea that it's better not to know what is going on, then to have at least some information.

Sanctions don't work. They didn't work in NK, they won't work here. You and 97 acknowledge that more or less, yet not doing sanctions is "naive and utopian."
 
Re: getting inspectors in

Originally posted by qazplm:
IS doing something.

I do not understand the idea that it's better not to know what is going on, then to have at least some information.

Sanctions don't work. They didn't work in NK, they won't work here. You and 97 acknowledge that more or less, yet not doing sanctions is "naive and utopian."
Round and round we go, and yet you've read nothing.

Removing sanctions before any meaningful concessions from the other side is what's naïve and utopian. It's akin to letting Billy back into the dodgeball game a few minutes after he broke four kids' noses and shoved a few teammates to the ground because he promised not to do it again.

Also naïve and utopian is your apparent belief that inspectors are going to do anything useful at all. It's a token concession they can hold up and say, "see? we're doing something! Now give us more carrots!"

I get that you're trying to use the Russia thing against me, but my major beef with this is that what we're doing with Iran right now would be the same as lifting the Russian sanctions because they promise not to take over any more Ukrainian territory, when what we should be doing is applying enough economic pressure that they leave all Ukrainian territory, including the Crimean peninsula, altogether.

As I've said a dozen times, I don't envy the position we're in with respect to Russia, Syria, and Iran. There aren't great answers to any of them. But, the United States has abdicated its leadership position in the world order, often ceding to Germany, Russia, and others. It is alarming, in my opinion, but I understand that most Democrats want to focus internally exclusively. The problem is, every time in modern history that the US has turtled, the world finds a way to pull us back out and it's usually violent.
 
they are not going to unilaterally

"make meaningful concessions" with nothing in return.

The idea that we, alone, can provide enough economic pressure on most anyone is "naive."

If Europe, or Russia, or China want to trade with someone, that's enough right there to make sanctions completely ineffective.
You are living in a 1980s world.
 
well

legally, if it has the force of international law, then it's not so easily overturned. We ignore international law sometimes, but usually not stuff we've had a direct hand in.
 
Re: they are not going to unilaterally

Originally posted by qazplm:

The idea that we, alone, can provide enough economic pressure on most anyone is "naive."

If Europe, or Russia, or China want to trade with someone, that's enough right there to make sanctions completely ineffective.
Which is exactly why John Kerry has no business negotiating an executive agreement on behalf of President Obama. Thanks.
 
nope

it's why IF we want sanctions to ever even have a chance of working, we have to BRING along other folks in the world. And they are much more prone to negotiate and they need a lot more evidence that negotiations are completely and utterly useless.

So even if we adopt your attitude, it would STILL require negotiations because sanctions without the rest of the world on board are simply pointless.
 
Re: nope

What attitude? Is this your "gr8 doesn't think negotiations are worthwhile" red herring again?

We're giving them something simply to negotiate. What has Iran ever done to earn that? Nothing.
 
we aren't giving them anything to

simply negotiate. We are engaged in a process whereby if they agree to some things, we give them other things. Over time. With inspections. IF we can even come to a deal.
 
lol

Russia's economy is dealing with multiple problems, it ain't just forty dollar oil. It's economy had issues before oil dropped. It will have issues after oil returns.
 
I for one believe they are insane. Its in their genetic make up to kill the infidel. Kind of like salmon swimming up stream to spawn or geese flying south for the winter.
 
he whole "the next President could revoke with the stroke of a pen" fallacy.

No, they couldn't. The deal, if there even ends up being a deal, would eventually go to the UN, where it would be "ratified" for want of a better world. It would become international law. And President's can't just stroke of a pen their way out of settled international law easily.

I gave read that is Obama's plan to make his agreements permanent without having the votes in the Senate to ratify the his treaties. The problem is that is not in the constitution. If he does not have the votes in the senate to ratify his treaty then it is only temporary. The President swears an oath to follow the constitution and not UN law, especially when this is done to subvert the constitution. If I was a Presidential Candidate I would state outright in my campaign that I would not commit myself to follow any agreement that was not ratified by the Senate. The Supreme Court also is bound to follow the constitution and UN law. I do not think Obama can bind future presidents to his executive agreements.
 
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