Well, I have heard and read that end of 2014 Greeks owed about 85 billion in taxes, which is less than what they are asking for in emergency funding. So I think there is an issue that needs resolved there.
All that said, this thread took a lot of different turns, some thoughts:
-As for German debt being forgiven after WWII. It was. Not sure how that is even comparable though. Why? Germany when they surrendered, gave up an incredible amount of independence. Rightfully so. Really, nothing of the sort has been asked or forced from Greece-they largely ask for money, that comes from other countries taxpayers, and they have not changed a thing. It seems like an event that goes on every two years. Now, yes, I will grant that they did not start a war with mega atrocities but the point is if their system is completely broke they should adjust it.
-Well, as they say, the problem with socialism is it is great until you run out of other people's money.
-If I were Europe I would be real hesitant to give Greece a penny. The Greek leaders show up at a conference a few days ago, with no written plan as to what adjustments or changes they will make. Really? This after holding a vote that they think the results will get them a better deal, after a deal was basically done. Voting no on the referendum killed that deal. Hey, let them go their own way if they want to so bad.
-I found the debates on here about states some what amusing. Posters want to laud how well CA is doing. Wow. After decades of wild swings, dips, busted budgets, cities going bankrupt, things go well for a year and a half or two years, and now pat them on the back. Much of the reason it is doing well really had nothing to do with the govt of CA and its policies. It is more in spite of them.
-I think some of us might want to look at some of the pension deals being handed out in the USA if we do not think it is on par with the country of Greece. Read and here of way to many state govt workers with 6 figure pensions.
-Still not sure why people have the idea they do about tax revenue, spending, deficits, and debt. Anyway you choose to look at it, the current President and his policies increased debt way more than his predecessor.
Well you've got the conservative economic responses down pat.
1. Germany owed more, for much worse reasons. Their debt, much larger than Greece's in constant dollars, and they were able to rebuild their economy much more effectively than having to account for that debt burden or for "austerity." Their economy was "completely broke." That led to good things. Now, the biggest holder of debt to Greece is Germany, and now it's holding folks accountable. Germany didn't pay most of it's debts after WWI, and didn't pay most of their debts after WWII.
2. There are varying degrees of "Socialism." Sweden, and other countries do just fine with it. Germany is certainly more "socialist" than we are, and their economy is booming. But hey...socialism bad is one analysis.
3. Certainly Greece has responsibilities for making sure that they conduct their economic affairs responsibly if they want to stay part of the EU. If they don't meet those responsibilities, then no the EU shouldn't keep them around. Of course, OTOH, if the "reward" for doing so is more loans plus "austerity" then the result is going to be the can kicked down the road and this game will be played every few years.
4. Don't like the California/Texas example? How about the Minnesota/Wisconsin comparison? How about the hot white mess that is Kansas which has embraced every conservative economic policy there is and is in serious debt AFTER cutting taxes and social programs. The point is that "liberal" policies are implemented all over the place. Results are good in some, average in others, not so good in others. Of course, not a ton of places where conservative economic policies have resulted in booming economies, but I'm sure there's an example somewhere.
5 So where are these places in America that approach the Greek pension issue? How?
6. You listed four things: tax revenue, spending, deficits, and debt. Your sum total of all that was that the gross debt increased under Obama. More than other Presidents. Guess what, the debt under Bush increased a lot compared to prior Presidents. Generally speaking, the debt increases as time goes on in raw numbers JUST like the GDP increases in record levels all of the time in raw numbers. That's why Debt/GDP ratio is what matters, not raw numbers. Guess which nation has a higher ratio, Germany or the US?
But by all means, explain to me how the policy of cutting taxes leads to increased revenues and solves debt. And while you are at it, please tell me how one of our greatest periods of economic boom coincided with a top tax rate of 90 percent and higher debt ratios than now if debt is so overwhelmingly the only concern?
